"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You all can't be serious. You're seriously using this video as some kind of proof that AA is p2w? Are you all that dense? Do you really not give a shit about being so obviously ignorant that you would use this video and put it on a pedastal showing THIS IS WHY I'M RIGHT, ARCHEAGE IS P2W.
Let's just go through the obvious facts first. Gear does not give you some new ability to break out of cc faster. The first round he didn't even bother using his teleport skill to keep at a distance for a longer amount of time. Which he did do the 2nd round. Also count how long he was cc'd the first round and how long he was cc'd the 2nd round. It's over a full second of difference. He used an ability that stunned the opponent after/during earthen grip and was able to get away from the enemies follow up attack which got him killed in the first round. That stunning ability is yet another thing he didn't do during the 1st round btw. A second difference of being CC will make or break a lot of fights.
What does this show? He likely wasn't even trying in the first round to begin with. It would have been second nature to have used that teleport skill in every fight just like he used it in the 2nd round but guess what, he didn't even try to use it. If he had, he likely would have won or at the very least it would have been a closer fight as i'm sure it was a factor in his death.
Also, he's clearly ranting, and barely says more than 10 words. Yes, i understand english isn't his first language obviously. But come on now. I was wondering what this video that everyone was talking about proves AA is p2w, if this is the one then...just people are fucking, i don't even.
You all can't be serious. You're seriously using this video as some kind of proof that AA is p2w? Are you all that dense? Do you really not give a shit about being so obviously ignorant that you would use this video and put it on a pedastal showing THIS IS WHY I'M RIGHT, ARCHEAGE IS P2W.
Let's just go through the obvious facts first. Gear does not give you some new ability to break out of cc faster. The first round he didn't even bother using his teleport skill to keep at a distance for a longer amount of time. Which he did do the 2nd round. Also count how long he was cc'd the first round and how long he was cc'd the 2nd round. It's over a full second of difference. He used an ability that stunned the opponent after/during earthen grip and was able to get away from the enemies follow up attack which got him killed in the first round. That stunning ability is yet another thing he didn't do during the 1st round btw. A second difference of being CC will make or break a lot of fights.
What does this show? He likely wasn't even trying in the first round to begin with. It would have been second nature to have used that teleport skill in every fight just like he used it in the 2nd round but guess what, he didn't even try to use it. If he had, he likely would have won or at the very least it would have been a closer fight as i'm sure it was a factor in his death.
Also, he's clearly ranting, and barely says more than 10 words. Yes, i understand english isn't his first language obviously. But come on now. I was wondering what this video that everyone was talking about proves AA is p2w, if this is the one then...just people are fucking, i don't even.
He spent over $12,000 on the game. That's over 66 years of subscription time at $15 a month. His rant about bringing out the credit card and the fact that ArcheAge is Pay 2 Win is pretty much obvious to anyone. Claiming ArcheAge is not P2W is like saying the Earth is flat, some people might think that it's true but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
He spent over $12,000 on the game. That's over 66 years of subscription time at $15 a month. His rant about bringing out the credit card and the fact that ArcheAge is Pay 2 Win is pretty much obvious to anyone. Claiming ArcheAge is not P2W is like saying the Earth is flat, some people might think that it's true but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't.
What did he win?
How do you "win" a MMO?
You know he still loses 1v1 in Arena - so if he is still losing - not really P2W - because if that's what he is using as his criteria he should be winning 100% of the time.
So yeah about that......
until there is a 100% clear consensus and a definition of what it means to "win" in a MMO - the entire concept of P2W is invalid period.
In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal.
He spent over $12,000 on the game. That's over 66 years of subscription time at $15 a month. His rant about bringing out the credit card and the fact that ArcheAge is Pay 2 Win is pretty much obvious to anyone. Claiming ArcheAge is not P2W is like saying the Earth is flat, some people might think that it's true but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't.
What did he win?
How do you "win" a MMO?
You know he still loses 1v1 in Arena - so if he is still losing - not really P2W - because if that's what he is using as his criteria he should be winning 100% of the time.
So yeah about that......
until there is a 100% clear consensus and a definition of what it means to "win" in a MMO - the entire concept of P2W is invalid period.
Are you pulling my leg? That's an idiom just like Pay 2 Win. Your not literally pulling my leg just like there is no "YOU ARE WINNER" text popup and credit roll on a MMO but you know exactly wtf I'm talking about paying for an advantage. Like buying gold, items, labor pots, regrades etc.
Carry on with your flat earth society tho by all means.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal.
Funny thing you mention the Flat Earth belief - because for 100s of years that was believed due to a consensus, hehe
Point - just because it's a consensus doesn't mean it's true , nor right.
Yeah but when people discovered it wasn't and they had things like facts it was pretty obvious. Like posting the link to buy ArcheAge credits - here .
End of story.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal.
Funny thing you mention the Flat Earth belief - because for 100s of years that was believed due to a consensus, hehe
Point - just because it's a consensus doesn't mean it's true , nor right.
Actually, most people believed the earth was round quite early in human history. Easiest way to figure it out was the fact that when something goes off into the distance (particularly ships sailing away), it goes downwards.
In the end, what really matters to an MMO's lifespan is how many people stop playing the game because of it. This is loosely correlated with consensus, but not on a one-to-one basis, for sure.
(note that "lifespan" and "financial success" are two different things, though. Many F2P whaling business models anticipate and purposefully accept a low lifespan in exchange for high profits)
In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal.
Funny thing you mention the Flat Earth belief - because for 100s of years that was believed due to a consensus, hehe
Point - just because it's a consensus doesn't mean it's true , nor right.
Yeah but when people discovered it wasn't and they had things like facts it was pretty obvious. Like posting the link to buy ArcheAge credits - here .
End of story.
Yeah and you can buy credits with in game gold - it's called Apex.
Again - there's nothing that you cannot buy with in game gold including credits.
Do you see how the entire P2W argument has zero merit?
You can pay for patron (subscription) with in-game gold by purchasing Apex in AH
APEX costs $10 to buy. All a free player is doing is providing the whales with gold.
right from the link on the site...
"APEX is an in-game item that grants 1250 Credits when opened. Unlike regular Credit purchases, you can trade APEX to other players in ArcheAge, or sell them on the Auction House for in-game gold!
APEX can only be purchased with an account that contains a level 15 or higher character.You must be signed in with your Glyph account to purchase APEX."
Do you see how the entire P2W argument is based of buying in game advantage with a credit card?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal.
Funny thing you mention the Flat Earth belief - because for 100s of years that was believed due to a consensus, hehe
Point - just because it's a consensus doesn't mean it's true , nor right.
Actually, most people believed the earth was round quite early in human history. Easiest way to figure it out was the fact that when something goes off into the distance (particularly ships sailing away), it goes downards.
Sumerians depicted our solar system with spheres, and so did many advanced civilizations. There was a period when human civilization moved backwards though and that's why we had to rediscover a lot of things. Imho MMO genre moved backwards with f2p/p2w.
t's an idiom just like Pay 2 Win. Your not literally pulling my leg just like there is no "YOU ARE WINNER" text popup and credit roll on a MMO but you know exactly wtf I'm talking about paying for an advantage. Like buying gold, items, labor pots, regrades etc.
Carry on with your flat earth society tho by all means.
A player who has a shit ton of gold can buy items, labor pots, regrades etc... all without spending a single cent.
There are average players who earn 1000g per week in Archeage (just by doing 100% safe trade runs) - they buy everything (including their patron status) with gold. There are guilds that have 10s ot thousands of gold already.
If you want to spend money in AA - yes you can - but it doesn't give you any advantage because EVERYTHING can be bought with gold period.
Who is going to have more gold the person who whips out a credit card or the one who doesn't?
Who will have more labor?
Who will have more regrades?
Ya see where this is going?
PAY TO WIN. (not literally it means pay to advantage it's an idiom)
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
our solar system with spheres, and so did many advanced civilizations. There was a period when human civilization moved backwards though and that's why we had to rediscover a lot of things. Imho MMO genre moved backwards with f2p/p2w.
I don't share your opinion.
F2P is what moved MMO genre forward - and furthermore what saved it period.
Without F2P the vast majority of MMO games would be shut down - there would be very few MMOs to play, and those that can't or are not willing to spend $15 wouldn't get a chance to play at all.
F2P is the best model because it allows very rich to fund the game for the rest of us - it's a win for all.
Long live the whales,
Long live the froobs
Long live F2P
Screw integrity. All that matters is profit.
Sell everything to give the people who open their credit cards an advantage, time saving, shortcut that takes away a fair playing field based on a flat subscription fee and playing the game. And not only that let's sell mounts, skins, cosmetics, pets, is there anything we can't put dollar signs on?
Take advantage of people with lots of money and addictive personalities with RNG casino loot boxes and call them whales.
How about a two week free trial?
Long live not calling players whales,
Long live fairness,
Long live not taking advantage of people and nickel and dime'ng them,
Long live subscriptions
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Without F2P the vast majority of MMO games would be shut down - there would be very few MMOs to play, and those that can't or are not willing to spend $15 wouldn't get a chance to play at all.
Actually that would have been great. There are too many MMOs on the market and most of these are complete garbage. With F2P they continue to linger, some holding up great IPs (Lotro etc). With p2w this got even worse because most of the devs now waste their power devising schemes to screw whales. Buy pots to open loot bags my arse. 10 years ago no one could even imagine such crap here in the West.
Without F2P the vast majority of MMO games would be shut down - there would be very few MMOs to play, and those that can't or are not willing to spend $15 wouldn't get a chance to play at all.
Actually that would have been great. There are too many MMOs on the market and most of these are complete garbage. With F2P they continue to linger, some holding up great IPs (Lotro etc). With p2w this got even worse because most of the devs now waste their power devising schemes to screw whales. Buy pots to open loot bags my arse. 10 years ago no one could even imagine such crap here in the West.
10+ years ago you only had players selling items to each other for real money, and it was considered illegal and against the ToS and could get you banned.
now the companies do it because they saw how many people would be willing to dump thousands on pixels.
He spent over $12,000 on the game. That's over 66 years of subscription time at $15 a month. His rant about bringing out the credit card and the fact that ArcheAge is Pay 2 Win is pretty much obvious to anyone. Claiming ArcheAge is not P2W is like saying the Earth is flat, some people might think that it's true but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't.
What did he win?
How do you "win" a MMO?
You know he still loses 1v1 in Arena - so if he is still losing - not really P2W - because if that's what he is using as his criteria he should be winning 100% of the time.
So yeah about that......
until there is a 100% clear consensus and a definition of what it means to "win" in a MMO - the entire concept of P2W is invalid period.
he clearly would loose if some1 is paying more than him :P
Have people forgotten that game dev studios are businesses?
It's about making money, it's always been about making money.
Over time - they become better at it - as players have evolved - so have the dev studios.
Yup and that's why we have this p2w shite all over our games. I just hate f2p/p2w model period. I'm not against AA per se but I'm firmly against p2w because I like MMOs and I don't want them to be turned into complete garbage. In Asia they can do whatever they like because I don't play Asian games but each p2w game coming to Western market is a big nope for me.
So if I am understanding this through the expletive laden broken English, first game he doesn't pay. 2nd and 3rd, he does, and rapes his opponent. How is this not P2Win again?
This category owns in every game - because they can just buy end-game characters fully geared from players for ridiculous money and actually learn how to play them well because they have nothing but time.
Someone purchasing the best geared player in WoW or TESO or Wildstar - for a LOT of cash - is that not P2W?
If I remember correctly buying accounts is illegal in those games. AA cash shop is legal and anyone with a fat wallet can buy a win like shown in this vid. Of course you can grind like in every single p2w MMO but whales have advantage over you anyway. Btw there are a lot p2w games I've once loved. Like Lotro, TSW (after they implemented RNG goodie boxes) etc. So it's not only AA but imho AA is a complete p2w game. Want to skip tedious grind? Sure, cough out some cash. Want to open that loot bag? Sure, cough out some cash to buy a potion. It is p2w.
Yup and that's why we have this p2w shite all over our games. I just hate f2p/p2w model period. I'm not against AA per se but I'm firmly against p2w because I like MMOs and I don't want them to be turned into complete garbage. In Asia they can do whatever they like because I don't play Asian games but each p2w game coming to Western market is a big nope for me.
I understand you as a player hate F2P - but put yourself in the shoes of a game studio.
Consider the following scenario (which is actually very common, and reason for shift to cash shop model)
You have a game that is P2P and your subs are declining - you own the studio - you have 150 employees that have worked their asses off for 5 years to build the game.
After 6 months of success, the subs are declining - you do free trials, new content, even an expansion - the things pick up for a bit, but the subs are nowhere near the numbers they were in the first 6 months and they STILL continue to drop.
What do you do?
Putting out more content costs money, another expansion takes 6+ months a lot more money in the meanwhile the subs are declining.
Shut the game down, let all of those folks lose their jobs - OR do you try to make it profitable.
P2P model weaknesses
1. Barrier of entry (lose out on players who would spend LESS than sub fee per month)
2. Hard pay ceiling (lose out on money from players that can afford to pay MORE than sub fee)
3. it's easier to lose players than to gain players - because of barrier of entry (a returning player will be hesitant to come check the game out later because he must pay sub fee again)
F2P fixes all the above issues - it has proven to turn profits around for games that were on the slippery slope
So again - it's so easy to just look at it from "gamers" perspective - from a business perspective - F2P is a godsend
You have a lot of good points but I don't agree with f2p being a godsend It's actually about the balance - I can tolerate CS selling cosmetics and such but selling gameplay advantages is a big nope for me. Also, I'm a free market fundamentalist and I think that bad games and games that went bad deserve to die. For example I'm waiting for a good Middle Earth MMO for years already because I loved Lotro but it went p2w selling stat tomes and whatnot. I grew up with Tolkien's books and it makes me sad seeing Lotro as it is these days.
Comments
*waiting for DMKano to run into the thread and claim its not P2W*
Even though he hasn't defended himself in his own thread in 11 pages
/popcorn
When I wake up, the real nightmare begins
Already posted yesterday. See here
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You all can't be serious. You're seriously using this video as some kind of proof that AA is p2w? Are you all that dense? Do you really not give a shit about being so obviously ignorant that you would use this video and put it on a pedastal showing THIS IS WHY I'M RIGHT, ARCHEAGE IS P2W.
Let's just go through the obvious facts first. Gear does not give you some new ability to break out of cc faster. The first round he didn't even bother using his teleport skill to keep at a distance for a longer amount of time. Which he did do the 2nd round. Also count how long he was cc'd the first round and how long he was cc'd the 2nd round. It's over a full second of difference. He used an ability that stunned the opponent after/during earthen grip and was able to get away from the enemies follow up attack which got him killed in the first round. That stunning ability is yet another thing he didn't do during the 1st round btw. A second difference of being CC will make or break a lot of fights.
What does this show? He likely wasn't even trying in the first round to begin with. It would have been second nature to have used that teleport skill in every fight just like he used it in the 2nd round but guess what, he didn't even try to use it. If he had, he likely would have won or at the very least it would have been a closer fight as i'm sure it was a factor in his death.
Also, he's clearly ranting, and barely says more than 10 words. Yes, i understand english isn't his first language obviously. But come on now. I was wondering what this video that everyone was talking about proves AA is p2w, if this is the one then...just people are fucking, i don't even.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
He spent over $12,000 on the game. That's over 66 years of subscription time at $15 a month. His rant about bringing out the credit card and the fact that ArcheAge is Pay 2 Win is pretty much obvious to anyone. Claiming ArcheAge is not P2W is like saying the Earth is flat, some people might think that it's true but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Any game is p2w if you pay real money and have an advantage of any sort over players who don't, So, yes, of course ArcheAge is p2w.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal.
Are you pulling my leg? That's an idiom just like Pay 2 Win. Your not literally pulling my leg just like there is no "YOU ARE WINNER" text popup and credit roll on a MMO but you know exactly wtf I'm talking about paying for an advantage. Like buying gold, items, labor pots, regrades etc.
Carry on with your flat earth society tho by all means.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Yeah but when people discovered it wasn't and they had things like facts it was pretty obvious. Like posting the link to buy ArcheAge credits - here .
End of story.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Actually, most people believed the earth was round quite early in human history. Easiest way to figure it out was the fact that when something goes off into the distance (particularly ships sailing away), it goes downwards.
In the end, what really matters to an MMO's lifespan is how many people stop playing the game because of it. This is loosely correlated with consensus, but not on a one-to-one basis, for sure.
(note that "lifespan" and "financial success" are two different things, though. Many F2P whaling business models anticipate and purposefully accept a low lifespan in exchange for high profits)
APEX costs $10 to buy. All a free player is doing is providing the whales with gold.
right from the link on the site...
"APEX is an in-game item that grants 1250 Credits when opened. Unlike regular Credit purchases, you can trade APEX to other players in ArcheAge, or sell them on the Auction House for in-game gold!
APEX can only be purchased with an account that contains a level 15 or higher character.You must be signed in with your Glyph account to purchase APEX."
Do you see how the entire P2W argument is based of buying in game advantage with a credit card?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Sumerians depicted our solar system with spheres, and so did many advanced civilizations. There was a period when human civilization moved backwards though and that's why we had to rediscover a lot of things. Imho MMO genre moved backwards with f2p/p2w.
Who is going to have more gold the person who whips out a credit card or the one who doesn't?
Who will have more labor?
Who will have more regrades?
Ya see where this is going?
PAY TO WIN. (not literally it means pay to advantage it's an idiom)
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/more pay more pay more pay more pay more pay more pay
thats all i needed to hear.
hehe i dont care either way i dont play themeparks. i just thought the more pay more pay thing was funny.
Screw integrity. All that matters is profit.
Sell everything to give the people who open their credit cards an advantage, time saving, shortcut that takes away a fair playing field based on a flat subscription fee and playing the game. And not only that let's sell mounts, skins, cosmetics, pets, is there anything we can't put dollar signs on?
Take advantage of people with lots of money and addictive personalities with RNG casino loot boxes and call them whales.
How about a two week free trial?
Long live not calling players whales,
Long live fairness,
Long live not taking advantage of people and nickel and dime'ng them,
Long live subscriptions
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Actually that would have been great. There are too many MMOs on the market and most of these are complete garbage. With F2P they continue to linger, some holding up great IPs (Lotro etc). With p2w this got even worse because most of the devs now waste their power devising schemes to screw whales. Buy pots to open loot bags my arse. 10 years ago no one could even imagine such crap here in the West.
OH IT'S ON!
HEY SONYA BLADE
I HAVE SOMETHING FOR YOU!
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/10+ years ago you only had players selling items to each other for real money, and it was considered illegal and against the ToS and could get you banned.
now the companies do it because they saw how many people would be willing to dump thousands on pixels.
he clearly would loose if some1 is paying more than him :P
What about those who fall into the category of being rich as well as having plenty of time?
Yup and that's why we have this p2w shite all over our games. I just hate f2p/p2w model period. I'm not against AA per se but I'm firmly against p2w because I like MMOs and I don't want them to be turned into complete garbage. In Asia they can do whatever they like because I don't play Asian games but each p2w game coming to Western market is a big nope for me.
If I remember correctly buying accounts is illegal in those games. AA cash shop is legal and anyone with a fat wallet can buy a win like shown in this vid. Of course you can grind like in every single p2w MMO but whales have advantage over you anyway. Btw there are a lot p2w games I've once loved. Like Lotro, TSW (after they implemented RNG goodie boxes) etc. So it's not only AA but imho AA is a complete p2w game. Want to skip tedious grind? Sure, cough out some cash. Want to open that loot bag? Sure, cough out some cash to buy a potion. It is p2w.
You have a lot of good points but I don't agree with f2p being a godsend
It's actually about the balance - I can tolerate CS selling cosmetics and such but selling gameplay advantages is a big nope for me. Also, I'm a free market fundamentalist and I think that bad games and games that went bad deserve to die. For example I'm waiting for a good Middle Earth MMO for years already because I loved Lotro but it went p2w selling stat tomes and whatnot. I grew up with Tolkien's books and it makes me sad seeing Lotro as it is these days.