I love Planetside 2 but SoE has a difficult time keeping the engine stabilized; given EQN will be using the same engine, how will they stabilize an mmo that will be 100x more complex?
More and more people want something different than your average themepark wow clone.. SOE is basically the only AAA company to realise this.
I think EQN will do well when it comes to MMORPGs ignore wow numbers as thats just a blip in the MMO world.. look at the average number of gamers in mmorpgs before and after wow and they generally get around the same amount of players..
Of course other AAA companies will then follow suit and prob have already started work on sandbox games.
The next 10 years for mmorpgs is looking pretty good at the moment a lot of unique indie mmorgs are on the and the big companies are starting to realise they cant just copy wow and constantly get tons of cash..
Originally posted by laokoko I dont' know but, assume EQN release next year. Become a huge success. You still need 5-6 years for new mmorpg to be released... Hurray!! The mmorpg genre will be spam with sandbox game at the year 2020!
I rather have sandbox clones than boring theme park ones.
Let's say EQN is a huge success, what do you think that would mean for the mmo industry as a whole?
Will we see more AAA companies copy SOE success like they did with WoW?
Companies will try to ape their success by shamelessly copying all the aspects that made their game successful; and we will go into another tedious period of clones as we did post WOW.
Originally posted by laokoko I dont' know but, assume EQN release next year. Become a huge success. You still need 5-6 years for new mmorpg to be released...
Hurray!! The mmorpg genre will be spam with sandbox game at the year 2020!
I rather have sandbox clones than boring theme park ones.
What would you chose between boring sandboxes and fun theme parks?
Here is the thing, if at the height of WOW's success you started a five year development on a sandpark, FPS mmo which took a few risks you are more likely to hit the market at the right time, with the right product than if you started development on a WOW clone.
I would hope that if EQN was wildly successful a few companies would take the view that all fads must end even if only temporarily and would start designing towards the next innovation.
Unfortunately big business is crippled by short-termism.
Originally posted by Zorgo Originally posted by LazzaroOriginally posted by laokokoI dont' know but, assume EQN release next year. Become a huge success. You still need 5-6 years for new mmorpg to be released...Hurray!! The mmorpg genre will be spam with sandbox game at the year 2020!
I rather have sandbox clones than boring theme park ones.What would you chose between boring sandboxes and fun theme parks?
The Sandbox because I can make my fun, I know in a theme park once I hit max level it's the same ride over and over again. At least with a 'boring' sandbox I can do what I want.
Plus, I'm pretty sure out of all the sandbox clones we could see a bunch will be fun so I Won't have this problem.
I'm the wrong person to ask anyways, because theme park mmmo's can't keep my attention once I hit max level because I don't like repeating the same stuff over and over again for an increase in my gear stats. I rather go explore the world, farm, build my house, Pvp, sail, just dick around, and Of course all of this in the seamless open world and know that I can do this with out falling behind like you would in FFXIV or WoW if you don't do the latest and greatest raids or dungeons.
Let's say EQN is a huge success, what do you think that would mean for the mmo industry as a whole?
Will we see more AAA companies copy SOE success like they did with WoW?
I really hope that people will copy SOE. They do a great job balancing risk and diversification. They've got a lot of different games in their MMORPG portfolio. EQN and H1Z1 improve on that as well.
I don't think that EQNs success will have much or any impact on the industry, though. I think that there is a pretty good understanding of where the industry sits, and what sort of market opportunity there is. I think that fewer people are taking shots at WoW like they're somehow going to steal 50% of their users. I think that's what's most important.
LOL, huge success... with today's fickle gamers? Not gonna happen. Even WoW can't retain players like it used to. There is no such thing as a huge success (except in the PR writers' mind), just profit.
I personally predict EQNext to be just as lackluster as all the rest of the recent entries into the genre. The genre is old. It's like suggesting you could make a DOOM 10.0 and expect it to still generate the same sales as the original did. Oh players will flock to it like the next coming... and leave it just as fast. Too many games with the same theme all trying to vie for our attention... as such, none of them get our attention 100%... for very long.
Originally posted by laokokoI dont' know but, assume EQN release next year. Become a huge success. You still need 5-6 years for new mmorpg to be released...Hurray!! The mmorpg genre will be spam with sandbox game at the year 2020!
I rather have sandbox clones than boring theme park ones.
What would you chose between boring sandboxes and fun theme parks?
The Sandbox because I can make my fun, I know in a theme park once I hit max level it's the same ride over and over again. At least with a 'boring' sandbox I can do what I want.
Plus, I'm pretty sure out of all the sandbox clones we could see a bunch will be fun so I Won't have this problem.
I'm the wrong person to ask anyways, because theme park mmmo's can't keep my attention once I hit max level because I don't like repeating the same stuff over and over again for an increase in my gear stats. I rather go explore the world, farm, build my house, Pvp, sail, just dick around, and Of course all of this in the seamless open world and know that I can do this with out falling behind like you would in FFXIV or WoW if you don't do the latest and greatest raids or dungeons.
This is certainly not a direction I want to see devs embrace. Housing, farming, sailing..etc.. are not exactly compelling gameplay mechanics in and of themselves. They're best served as luxuries, to fill out a much greater whole, without that they're really nothing at all, and would be incredibly shallow aspects to base a greater whole on. Talk about something growing repetitive. It sometimes seems to me that some folks would be happy with a blank world as long as they could hang a virtual picture up and admire it.
I'm essentially the same way as you with themeparks, however I can see the merits in teh content a themepark offers, it is actual content, as finite as it may be it's still content, too many feel a sandbox doesn't need that, I'll take it from someone who built one, they do - Paraphrasing Raph Koster..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Lugors Why would it be a huge success? And what is success? Do you think it will approach SWTOR type numbers with at least 2mil + boxes sold?
Yes i do because a LOT of people buy on a whim,because they are bored and many just jump on the bandwagon of every new game.I feel SOe Will make a decent amount of money off the sales alone and that is what they are banking on.After that i don't see a whole lot of excitement,i expect the game will die off as quick as every other game that sells 2 mil copies then almost vanished within a few months.
When i see a loss of interest from f2p games that really says a lot about the real interest.I "think" most by now realize SOE is not about FREE to play but about trying to manipulate the market in their favor which of course backfired because 90% of the devs out there all copied the same gimmick term aka "F2P"..There is no FREE anything good or worthwhile will be tied into the market place.IMO the rest of non market place will be more of the same old linear questing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Lugors Why would it be a huge success? And what is success? Do you think it will approach SWTOR type numbers with at least 2mil + boxes sold?
Yes i do because a LOT of people buy on a whim,because they are bored and many just jump on the bandwagon of every new game.I feel SOe Will make a decent amount of money off the sales alone and that is what they are banking on.After that i don't see a whole lot of excitement,i expect the game will die off as quick as every other game that sells 2 mil copies then almost vanished within a few months.
When i see a loss of interest from f2p games that really says a lot about the real interest.I "think" most by now realize SOE is not about FREE to play but about trying to manipulate the market in their favor which of course backfired because 90% of the devs out there all copied the same gimmick term aka "F2P"..There is no FREE anything good or worthwhile will be tied into the market place.IMO the rest of non market place will be more of the same old linear questing.
No....... No...... I'm pretty sure that people aren't as naive about F2P games as you'd like to believe they are. Actually, I think that the F2P games that provide the greatest amount of value will be rewarded with a long life, while those with less value or P2W cash shops will die off. SOE will be one of these "winning" companies. Just look at their portfolio, it's ridiculous how mature their games are. Oh! And you can also get their All Access pass, which gives you access to all of them. Again, VALUE! SOE is actually quite brilliant with their model.
Originally posted by laokokoI dont' know but, assume EQN release next year. Become a huge success. You still need 5-6 years for new mmorpg to be released...Hurray!! The mmorpg genre will be spam with sandbox game at the year 2020!
I rather have sandbox clones than boring theme park ones.
What would you chose between boring sandboxes and fun theme parks?
The Sandbox because I can make my fun, I know in a theme park once I hit max level it's the same ride over and over again. At least with a 'boring' sandbox I can do what I want.
Plus, I'm pretty sure out of all the sandbox clones we could see a bunch will be fun so I Won't have this problem.
I'm the wrong person to ask anyways, because theme park mmmo's can't keep my attention once I hit max level because I don't like repeating the same stuff over and over again for an increase in my gear stats. I rather go explore the world, farm, build my house, Pvp, sail, just dick around, and Of course all of this in the seamless open world and know that I can do this with out falling behind like you would in FFXIV or WoW if you don't do the latest and greatest raids or dungeons.
Themeparks = boring quest chain -> solo til level cap withing 48 hours -> sit on town after that waiting for queues and queues for the same BG - instance over and over, no need to talk to anyone.
I'd rather have my old school game with slow leveling where I can socialize with other people, leveling together though world bosses and good hunting zones while defeating(or losing) enemies. I loged in, checked my guild and friend list and created parties to farm and world pvp hours and hours a day.
Let's say EQN is a huge success, what do you think that would mean for the mmo industry as a whole?
Will we see more AAA companies copy SOE success like they did with WoW?
Nothing unless it happens to rival multiple millions of registered players. Somehow I doubt this will be the case because EQN has been polarizing enough to cast any serious doubt on it's overall rise to #1 MMO. With that being said, it is the only MMO I am currently looking forward to and will most likely be my last attempt in the genre. Too much Themepark, linear. quest hub MMO's to shake a stick at and I doubt this is going to change any time soon.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
well their two first attempts eq 1 and 2 are still being enjoyed by 100'000's of people after all these years and still getting content/expansions...a lot of people even claim eq1/2 are/were the best mmo's ever... so soe must at least be doing something right...
Let's say EQN is a huge success, what do you think that would mean for the mmo industry as a whole?
Will we see more AAA companies copy SOE success like they did with WoW?
For one, there are already games copying parts of what EQN has promised.
Secondly, EQN won't be the same success as WoW, because it CAN'T be. I've said this many, many times before, but a large part of why WoW was so successful, is because it was both the first MMO for a lot of people, but more importantly it brought in a lot of gamers (many millions) who had never before played an MMO.
Now that the MMO market is already established, it's going to be nearly impossible to achieve that kind of success within the same genre. At least until most people forget about MMOs for a significant amount of time, and some future developer brings the interest back.
- That said, depending on how the final mechanics of EQN get implemented; if it is a huge success we will see more games using similar mechanics. It's the same with any game, of any genre. Whenever a game achieves 'huge' success, other studios will try to copy parts of it. That's why we have so many MOBAs, why we're starting to see Dark Souls clones (Lords of the Fallen), etc. etc. etc. I just hope people don't try to copy the business model, because SOE is notoriously bad with their business models. Not as bad as EA, but still bad.
This game looks like a more boring version of minecraft and arcade combat. From what very little they show... I am tired of companies that hype games for years.. Oh look, here is a screen shot of something in a game.. Here is some half baked combat that doesn't even show how you the hotbar or how the combat is performed..
Tired of this crap really.. I heard about this years ago and early this year I heard it would be coming out Holiday season.. Here we are and still nothing. Guess another year of lack of information and hype. Until it releases and is dead 3 months later just like every MMO before.
This game looks like a more boring version of minecraft and arcade combat. From what very little they show... I am tired of companies that hype games for years.. Oh look, here is a screen shot of something in a game.. Here is some half baked combat that doesn't even show how you the hotbar or how the combat is performed..
Tired of this crap really.. I heard about this years ago and early this year I heard it would be coming out Holiday season.. Here we are and still nothing. Guess another year of lack of information and hype. Until it releases and is dead 3 months later just like every MMO before.
I would like to know your definition of dead since I have a sneaking suspicion your definition is very different than the rest of us...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Let's say EQN is a huge success, what do you think that would mean for the mmo industry as a whole?
Will we see more AAA companies copy SOE success like they did with WoW?
EQN process gives updates in the form of polls. Its slightly more interactive than other mmos would be if they simply updated their website.
Not that its bad... since at the end, the most important is the final product.
Sure allowing for a process creates more brand loyalty, but is that really necessary for good games to succeed? Maybe that's the question that is being asked.
Yet, there aren't any games that failed simply due to low marketing policies, or making a niche game that is inherently enjoyable as a standalone.
I think the point is, there is definitely a universal measurement for a quality game. No matter the genre or style. Its just a matter of execution and in a timely and efficient fashion. Games that fail, simply fail due to their own limitations, which of course exist. However, games copying other games allow for development to be less risky and more about development rather than planning. Which suggests devs are not capable of envisioning their own mmo to be realistically developed and enjoyable at the same time.
EQN is doing something different. So they deserve to succeed. They are doing that differently than other devs that show they do not want to take chances to avoid any backlash for their decisions.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Comments
I love Planetside 2 but SoE has a difficult time keeping the engine stabilized; given EQN will be using the same engine, how will they stabilize an mmo that will be 100x more complex?
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
More and more people want something different than your average themepark wow clone.. SOE is basically the only AAA company to realise this.
I think EQN will do well when it comes to MMORPGs ignore wow numbers as thats just a blip in the MMO world.. look at the average number of gamers in mmorpgs before and after wow and they generally get around the same amount of players..
Of course other AAA companies will then follow suit and prob have already started work on sandbox games.
The next 10 years for mmorpgs is looking pretty good at the moment a lot of unique indie mmorgs are on the and the big companies are starting to realise they cant just copy wow and constantly get tons of cash..
I rather have sandbox clones than boring theme park ones.
Companies will try to ape their success by shamelessly copying all the aspects that made their game successful; and we will go into another tedious period of clones as we did post WOW.
You know it made a million dollars...
What would you chose between boring sandboxes and fun theme parks?
Here is the thing, if at the height of WOW's success you started a five year development on a sandpark, FPS mmo which took a few risks you are more likely to hit the market at the right time, with the right product than if you started development on a WOW clone.
I would hope that if EQN was wildly successful a few companies would take the view that all fads must end even if only temporarily and would start designing towards the next innovation.
Unfortunately big business is crippled by short-termism.
Well if their recepie works..surley owther developers will start to copy it..that how the mmo market has been since wow made the "standard"
mmorpg junkie since 1999
What would you chose between boring sandboxes and fun theme parks?
The Sandbox because I can make my fun, I know in a theme park once I hit max level it's the same ride over and over again. At least with a 'boring' sandbox I can do what I want.
Plus, I'm pretty sure out of all the sandbox clones we could see a bunch will be fun so I Won't have this problem.
I'm the wrong person to ask anyways, because theme park mmmo's can't keep my attention once I hit max level because I don't like repeating the same stuff over and over again for an increase in my gear stats. I rather go explore the world, farm, build my house, Pvp, sail, just dick around, and Of course all of this in the seamless open world and know that I can do this with out falling behind like you would in FFXIV or WoW if you don't do the latest and greatest raids or dungeons.
I really hope that people will copy SOE. They do a great job balancing risk and diversification. They've got a lot of different games in their MMORPG portfolio. EQN and H1Z1 improve on that as well.
I don't think that EQNs success will have much or any impact on the industry, though. I think that there is a pretty good understanding of where the industry sits, and what sort of market opportunity there is. I think that fewer people are taking shots at WoW like they're somehow going to steal 50% of their users. I think that's what's most important.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Add SOE into the pot with Smedley and the chance drops to 0%.
LOL, huge success... with today's fickle gamers? Not gonna happen. Even WoW can't retain players like it used to. There is no such thing as a huge success (except in the PR writers' mind), just profit.
I personally predict EQNext to be just as lackluster as all the rest of the recent entries into the genre. The genre is old. It's like suggesting you could make a DOOM 10.0 and expect it to still generate the same sales as the original did. Oh players will flock to it like the next coming... and leave it just as fast. Too many games with the same theme all trying to vie for our attention... as such, none of them get our attention 100%... for very long.
This is certainly not a direction I want to see devs embrace. Housing, farming, sailing..etc.. are not exactly compelling gameplay mechanics in and of themselves. They're best served as luxuries, to fill out a much greater whole, without that they're really nothing at all, and would be incredibly shallow aspects to base a greater whole on. Talk about something growing repetitive. It sometimes seems to me that some folks would be happy with a blank world as long as they could hang a virtual picture up and admire it.
I'm essentially the same way as you with themeparks, however I can see the merits in teh content a themepark offers, it is actual content, as finite as it may be it's still content, too many feel a sandbox doesn't need that, I'll take it from someone who built one, they do - Paraphrasing Raph Koster..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes i do because a LOT of people buy on a whim,because they are bored and many just jump on the bandwagon of every new game.I feel SOe Will make a decent amount of money off the sales alone and that is what they are banking on.After that i don't see a whole lot of excitement,i expect the game will die off as quick as every other game that sells 2 mil copies then almost vanished within a few months.
When i see a loss of interest from f2p games that really says a lot about the real interest.I "think" most by now realize SOE is not about FREE to play but about trying to manipulate the market in their favor which of course backfired because 90% of the devs out there all copied the same gimmick term aka "F2P"..There is no FREE anything good or worthwhile will be tied into the market place.IMO the rest of non market place will be more of the same old linear questing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This thread makes a big assumption.
No....... No...... I'm pretty sure that people aren't as naive about F2P games as you'd like to believe they are. Actually, I think that the F2P games that provide the greatest amount of value will be rewarded with a long life, while those with less value or P2W cash shops will die off. SOE will be one of these "winning" companies. Just look at their portfolio, it's ridiculous how mature their games are. Oh! And you can also get their All Access pass, which gives you access to all of them. Again, VALUE! SOE is actually quite brilliant with their model.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Themeparks = boring quest chain -> solo til level cap withing 48 hours -> sit on town after that waiting for queues and queues for the same BG - instance over and over, no need to talk to anyone.
I'd rather have my old school game with slow leveling where I can socialize with other people, leveling together though world bosses and good hunting zones while defeating(or losing) enemies. I loged in, checked my guild and friend list and created parties to farm and world pvp hours and hours a day.
Nothing unless it happens to rival multiple millions of registered players. Somehow I doubt this will be the case because EQN has been polarizing enough to cast any serious doubt on it's overall rise to #1 MMO. With that being said, it is the only MMO I am currently looking forward to and will most likely be my last attempt in the genre. Too much Themepark, linear. quest hub MMO's to shake a stick at and I doubt this is going to change any time soon.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
For one, there are already games copying parts of what EQN has promised.
Secondly, EQN won't be the same success as WoW, because it CAN'T be. I've said this many, many times before, but a large part of why WoW was so successful, is because it was both the first MMO for a lot of people, but more importantly it brought in a lot of gamers (many millions) who had never before played an MMO.
Now that the MMO market is already established, it's going to be nearly impossible to achieve that kind of success within the same genre. At least until most people forget about MMOs for a significant amount of time, and some future developer brings the interest back.
- That said, depending on how the final mechanics of EQN get implemented; if it is a huge success we will see more games using similar mechanics. It's the same with any game, of any genre. Whenever a game achieves 'huge' success, other studios will try to copy parts of it. That's why we have so many MOBAs, why we're starting to see Dark Souls clones (Lords of the Fallen), etc. etc. etc. I just hope people don't try to copy the business model, because SOE is notoriously bad with their business models. Not as bad as EA, but still bad.
This game looks like a more boring version of minecraft and arcade combat. From what very little they show... I am tired of companies that hype games for years.. Oh look, here is a screen shot of something in a game.. Here is some half baked combat that doesn't even show how you the hotbar or how the combat is performed..
Tired of this crap really.. I heard about this years ago and early this year I heard it would be coming out Holiday season.. Here we are and still nothing. Guess another year of lack of information and hype. Until it releases and is dead 3 months later just like every MMO before.
thx, ill take it
I would like to know your definition of dead since I have a sneaking suspicion your definition is very different than the rest of us...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
EQN process gives updates in the form of polls. Its slightly more interactive than other mmos would be if they simply updated their website.
Not that its bad... since at the end, the most important is the final product.
Sure allowing for a process creates more brand loyalty, but is that really necessary for good games to succeed? Maybe that's the question that is being asked.
Yet, there aren't any games that failed simply due to low marketing policies, or making a niche game that is inherently enjoyable as a standalone.
I think the point is, there is definitely a universal measurement for a quality game. No matter the genre or style. Its just a matter of execution and in a timely and efficient fashion. Games that fail, simply fail due to their own limitations, which of course exist. However, games copying other games allow for development to be less risky and more about development rather than planning. Which suggests devs are not capable of envisioning their own mmo to be realistically developed and enjoyable at the same time.
EQN is doing something different. So they deserve to succeed. They are doing that differently than other devs that show they do not want to take chances to avoid any backlash for their decisions.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Judging by the almost dead state Landmark is in I'd say EQN doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of being successful.
In my day dark elves weren't fuchsia Navi with Draenei horns.