As a former FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 player I absolutely detest ARR. Though there are many people out there that think its one of the best MMO's since WoW all subjective I know. But Yoshi has achieved what he wanted to achieve and that was to appeal to a casual market. Now I always considered myself a casual gamer, but I found FFXI a more enjoyable experience and played that casually for 3 yrs and still never reached cap due to the amount of stuff that I could do other than fighting. 1.0 even though it had its faults was much better experience near the end of its life, they started to roll out some good stuff.
Originally posted by Cod_Eye As a former FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 player I absolutely detest ARR. Though there are many people out there that think its one of the best MMO's since WoW all subjective I know. But Yoshi has achieved what he wanted to achieve and that was to appeal to a casual market. Now I always considered myself a casual gamer, but I found FFXI a more enjoyable experience and played that casually for 3 yrs and still never reached cap due to the amount of stuff that I could do other than fighting. 1.0 even though it had its faults was much better experience near the end of its life, they started to roll out some good stuff.
Despite the fact that I'm currently playing FFXIV, I partially agree. I liked the framework for FFXIV 1.0 far better than what we have for ARR. While it had a number of problems, it also had a number of great ideas and was rather unique compared to most games on the market. Given the choice between a revamped 1.0 and ARR, I'd take the former.
The same reason Windows 7 is popular (over Vista).
A version was released before that wasn't well received. They released a new 'improved' version and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
I personally hated ARR after playing the original. In fact, I quit playing after the combat patch which changed it from action into the 15 year old auto-attack hotkey based system which I'm utterly sick of.
But it's fine guys, they added jumping, so all is right in the world!
So I had about 2500 crysta from 1.0 and used that to resub. Here are some pros and cons.
Pro
-Very pretty, love the graphics. -Not bound to one class. -Quests are well done. -Lots of people playing -Feels like a FF
Cons -World is very small -Not seamless, too many zone lines -Can teleport everywhere, which is why it feels small. -same'theme park' grind
Not a huge list, since I don't remember everything. I didn't add combat to either because I feel it's it so so, and honestly I don't mind tab targeting; although, I don't like the 2.5GCD.
It's not a bad game, it's actually pretty good, but if you're tired of 'theme park' mmo's then this will be the same.
I'll stick with it for a bit and see if it holds my attention.
after FFXI > WOW i never found a mmorpg that i could stay subbed for more than 1-2 months untill FFXIV:ARR, i have been subbed since 2.0 and happy with it (played 1.0 but ugh ....) ,FFXIV ARR its far from perfect and lacks lots of things but its getting there
Don't get me wrong it is popular. Last April SE announced that registrations had topped the 2M mark but - as Gamasutra pointed out at the time
this didn't mean it had 2M subscribers
it had added 500k registered users in the previous 6 months, about 8 months after re-launch
So "popular" yes but I think "so popular" is over stating it.
And a part of the reason is cultural.
It is the same with e.g. Spirited Away - Oscar winning brilliant film by Miyazaki / Studio Ghibli - huge box office hit in Japan but only so-so in US/EU. It isn't as "culturally relevant" to "western" audiences; "we" miss a lot of the symbolism and subtle references. Blatant example: the word "Camelot". If you know the tales and have seen the numerous films it conjures images and adds immersion.
Originally posted by Dfix I honestly don't remember the last time I walked through a zone line in FFXIV.
Isn't that kinda of a problem?
I know we all want to get to place a to b fast, but what's the point for these zones when you're in em for a couple hours leveling and that is it?
The fast travel in the game is kinda ridiculous, you can virtually travel any place within 10 seconds. You're just making the world feel even smaller when there is no need for it.
It is the same with e.g. Spirited Away - Oscar winning brilliant film by Miyazaki / Studio Ghibli - huge box office hit in Japan but only so-so in US/EU. It isn't as "culturally relevant" to "western" audiences; "we" miss a lot of the symbolism and subtle references. Blatant example: the word "Camelot". If you know the tales and have seen the numerous films it conjures images and adds immersion.
While I would agree that the "popularity" is very context dependent, I don't think it is due to cultural reasons. For example the localization is almost completely separate from the JP version, while it is in fact the JP version that often borrows things from the English localization team. As the result there are little to no subtle or symbolic references in the English version that only the Japanese would understand. The references to Japanese culture in the game are pretty much part of the popular culture so you don't have to be an expert on Japanese culture to get these references. If you play the Japanese version the situation is completely different, of course.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by LazzaroOriginally posted by DfixI honestly don't remember the last time I walked through a zone line in FFXIV.
Isn't that kinda of a problem? I know we all want to get to place a to b fast, but what's the point for these zones when you're in em for a couple hours leveling and that is it?The fast travel in the game is kinda ridiculous, you can virtually travel any place within 10 seconds.Depends on who do you ask.
With an hour to play each day, do you want to spend 30mins of it simply travelling to where the actual gameplay takes place?
With ten hours to play each day, do you want to spend a manageable portion of it to immerse yourself in the open world?
I'm not saying it has to be 30 min wait, but when you can travel anywhere in a split second it diminishes the world you created.
I think even YoshiP said or something was stated somewhere that they want less aethryte crystals in the x-pac.
Originally posted by DfixI honestly don't remember the last time I walked through a zone line in FFXIV.
Isn't that kinda of a problem? I know we all want to get to place a to b fast, but what's the point for these zones when you're in em for a couple hours leveling and that is it?The fast travel in the game is kinda ridiculous, you can virtually travel any place within 10 seconds.
Depends on who do you ask.
With an hour to play each day, do you want to spend 30mins of it simply travelling to where the actual gameplay takes place?
With ten hours to play each day, do you want to spend a manageable portion of it to immerse yourself in the open world?
I'm not saying it has to be 30 min wait, but when you can travel anywhere in a split second it diminishes the world you created.
I think even YoshiP said or something was stated somewhere that they want less aethryte crystals in the x-pac.
Currently East Shroud has a nice balance in my opinion. Getting to the end of sylphlands takes like 5 minutes from the Aetheryte.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
To OP why FF popular is because it a true Final Fantasy game with it lore and stuff, You can be a grandparent to a kid now that they made the game access to everyone( they did not change the wheel yet) . Yea it not ground breaking like the old FF games in the old days.
In almost every mmo or rpg game you see subtle hints about final fantasy stories
Final fantasy series is to gaming on the RPG side, like Star wars is to the movies or Star trek to tv You got the good one and the ok ones.
Yet influence Millions. and 3 decades of people.
Now if nintendo would grow up and give us a mmo Zelda game or mmo mario game.
Also women dig the game. So you can play the game with your girlfriend or wife or daughter.
Its popular because its name is Final Fantasy and it has mogs, chocobos and familiar items, classes and great graphics and music to go with that.
If it was a random story not based on a familiar world and super famous franchise, it would have way less players.
I bought the CE of the original version that shutdown and also re-subscribed to the new version of the game because it is final fantasy and I wanted badly to love it, but its not enough to keep me playing and enjoying it.
Basically, people are arguing that if you make a mediocre game with a HUGE brand name, it's going to be a huge success. SWTOR was a mediocre game and it still went free to play.
Final Fantasy brand name HURT ARR as much as it helped. 1.0 was so horrendous that long time SquareEnix producers, who developed games like ChronoCross was FIRED based on how bad the game was. Gigantic stock holders sold all their shares to SE based on horrible 1.0 was. YoshiP had to go on a 1 year apology tour trying to win back players that felt cheated for the CE purchases.
This was the backdrop for ARR. ARR didn't start out with "OMG, it's Final Fantasy, I HAVE to get it." It started out with people not giving it a chance because it was so horrible at first. Imagine how good a game has to be to over come that gigantic hole. All of you who make the "name brand" argument have it completely backwards.
Final Fantasy ARR is BETTER than the brand because it had to overcome 1.0. There are still people who are butt hurt, based on reading these posts, about 1.0 and will NEVER give ARR a chance.
The game is doing well because it's a good, polished game that offers something for everyone. I'm sorry that some of you just cant get that. I never liked or played a Grand Theft Auto game, but can I intellectually understand why it's so popular... yes I can. Some of you should try to understand ARR as well.
The game is a solid entry as a P2P MMORPG. Server Activity also spikes with major patch drops (3 month cycle), New Raid, Primal Fight, and 3 Dungeons always seem to be part of each major patch to date. Game Music has been solid and the game has found solid footing in the MMORPG market.
If you are on the front edge of Raiding, the new stuff has appeal to you. If you are more casual, you got plenty to do in game. The game has options, Hardcore raiders might chew thru the new content quickly which is standard but each patch keeps bringing more to the table.
Fun game, I've been enjoying playing it with my wife.
As long as Supporters of this game are as defensive as you are, with a complete unwilligness to look at the flaws in the game honestly; the game will never get better. Yoshi P knows that defending lies with lies can warp ppls perceptions, after all that's what most White Knights do. If the Devs will never get "the rough with the smooth" in order to see how to truly make the game great, the game will never improve in comparison to it's short-comings.
What the hell do you care? People enjoy the game as it is, and there are apparently a large enough amount to keep the game going on a subscription and to have three separate fanfests on three separate continents.
You say you've moved on, but it doesn't really seem like you have now have you?
Don't get me wrong it is popular. Last April SE announced that registrations had topped the 2M mark but - as Gamasutra pointed out at the time
this didn't mean it had 2M subscribers
it had added 500k registered users in the previous 6 months, about 8 months after re-launch
So "popular" yes but I think "so popular" is over stating it.
And a part of the reason is cultural.
It is the same with e.g. Spirited Away - Oscar winning brilliant film by Miyazaki / Studio Ghibli - huge box office hit in Japan but only so-so in US/EU. It isn't as "culturally relevant" to "western" audiences; "we" miss a lot of the symbolism and subtle references. Blatant example: the word "Camelot". If you know the tales and have seen the numerous films it conjures images and adds immersion.
I honestly feel this game is a lot more Western in design than people give it credit. The story follows a typical JRPG style, but most of the actual game mechanics feel like they're based on a Western game like WoW. Also, see my above comment about the fanfests to determine how popular this game is. I don't hear about other MMOs, apart from WoW (Blizzcon), that have their own fanfests.
Originally posted by nbtscan Originally posted by gervaise1Is it? So popular that is.Don't get me wrong it is popular. Last April SE announced that registrations had topped the 2M mark but - as Gamasutra pointed out at the timethis didn't mean it had 2M subscribersit had added 500k registered users in the previous 6 months, about 8 months after re-launchSo "popular" yes but I think "so popular" is over stating it.And a part of the reason is cultural.It is the same with e.g. Spirited Away - Oscar winning brilliant film by Miyazaki / Studio Ghibli - huge box office hit in Japan but only so-so in US/EU. It isn't as "culturally relevant" to "western" audiences; "we" miss a lot of the symbolism and subtle references. Blatant example: the word "Camelot". If you know the tales and have seen the numerous films it conjures images and adds immersion.
I honestly feel this game is a lot more Western in design than people give it credit. The story follows a typical JRPG style, but most of the actual game mechanics feel like they're based on a Western game like WoW. Also, see my above comment about the fanfests to determine how popular this game is. I don't hear about other MMOs, apart from WoW (Blizzcon), that have their own fanfests.
Basically, people are arguing that if you make a mediocre game with a HUGE brand name, it's going to be a huge success. SWTOR was a mediocre game and it still went free to play.
Final Fantasy brand name HURT ARR as much as it helped. 1.0 was so horrendous that long time SquareEnix producers, who developed games like ChronoCross was FIRED based on how bad the game was. Gigantic stock holders sold all their shares to SE based on horrible 1.0 was. YoshiP had to go on a 1 year apology tour trying to win back players that felt cheated for the CE purchases.
This was the backdrop for ARR. ARR didn't start out with "OMG, it's Final Fantasy, I HAVE to get it." It started out with people not giving it a chance because it was so horrible at first. Imagine how good a game has to be to over come that gigantic hole. All of you who make the "name brand" argument have it completely backwards.
Final Fantasy ARR is BETTER than the brand because it had to overcome 1.0. There are still people who are butt hurt, based on reading these posts, about 1.0 and will NEVER give ARR a chance.
The game is doing well because it's a good, polished game that offers something for everyone. I'm sorry that some of you just cant get that. I never liked or played a Grand Theft Auto game, but can I intellectually understand why it's so popular... yes I can. Some of you should try to understand ARR as well.
It's not ARR, it's you.
Wow, you just owned EVERYONE in this thread with that post. I don't normally go out of my way to commend a good post but this one certainly deserved it.
You are absolutely right, assholes have the name brand argument backwards. People are not playing this *just* because its FF, they are playing it because hey, its actually a fun MMO that you can sink your teeth into. Trolls gonna trolls, haters gonna hate.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
First you say FFXI kept BiS for years then when I point out how stupid this kind of design is you change the subject to the time when FFXI doesn't keep BiS for years? Try to decide what you're talking about dude. When FFXI kept BiS for years it wasn't easy to jump back in. Now that they no longer do it is easy to jump back in. Amazing discovery.
FFXIV includes 4 "songs" per 6 months, yet even if it didn't, at least I wouldn't go dissing someone for playing a piano song perfectly. Especially when FFXI had you play 24+ person "twinkle twinkle little star" over and over again for years.
Before I can name one MMO that has housing as a symbol of exclusivity I need to figure out which MMO's have (non-instanced) housing in the first place...... Did WoW get housing already? It's only been like 10 years. Umm..
The hardest parts of FFXIV were Turn 5 and Titan Extreme when they were new (over a year ago). Everything since, whether you see it as a "new song" or not is a Beginner's course comparatively.
You clearly have not done the recent coils or primals.
Any, ANY - HUNDREAD FUCKING PERCENT - of the people that cleared both 1st and 2nd coil without overgearing or getting carried, will tell you that the 2nd coil is way mechanically harder.
If you got carried or did it with overgeared group, that's on you not the content.
Also ROFL "titan extreme was harder when it came out than t9" you lose all and any reason with this kind of statements, titan took less than 10 hours(probably even way less) to go down vs t9 taking 2 weeks of the top players time to beat....
this game is not hard at all i've never found myself saying wow this is pretty hard.. I'm always saying Wow i wish my teammates could also understand these simple mechanics after wiping over and over.
Comments
Despite the fact that I'm currently playing FFXIV, I partially agree. I liked the framework for FFXIV 1.0 far better than what we have for ARR. While it had a number of problems, it also had a number of great ideas and was rather unique compared to most games on the market. Given the choice between a revamped 1.0 and ARR, I'd take the former.
it doesn't always work. it's not a necessity but it helps a lot based on fan's expectations and of course luck and timing among other things.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
The same reason Windows 7 is popular (over Vista).
A version was released before that wasn't well received. They released a new 'improved' version and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
I personally hated ARR after playing the original. In fact, I quit playing after the combat patch which changed it from action into the 15 year old auto-attack hotkey based system which I'm utterly sick of.
But it's fine guys, they added jumping, so all is right in the world!
*sigh*
So I had about 2500 crysta from 1.0 and used that to resub. Here are some pros and cons.
Pro
-Very pretty, love the graphics.
-Not bound to one class.
-Quests are well done.
-Lots of people playing
-Feels like a FF
Cons
-World is very small
-Not seamless, too many zone lines
-Can teleport everywhere, which is why it feels small.
-same'theme park' grind
Not a huge list, since I don't remember everything. I didn't add combat to either because I feel it's it so so, and honestly I don't mind tab targeting; although, I don't like the 2.5GCD.
It's not a bad game, it's actually pretty good, but if you're tired of 'theme park' mmo's then this will be the same.
I'll stick with it for a bit and see if it holds my attention.
In the beginning they tried 'something different' and nobody wanted it. So they went with 'the same' but with an FF skin and it worked.
after FFXI > WOW i never found a mmorpg that i could stay subbed for more than 1-2 months untill FFXIV:ARR, i have been subbed since 2.0 and happy with it (played 1.0 but ugh ....) ,FFXIV ARR its far from perfect and lacks lots of things but its getting there
Is it? So popular that is.
Don't get me wrong it is popular. Last April SE announced that registrations had topped the 2M mark but - as Gamasutra pointed out at the time
Isn't that kinda of a problem?
I know we all want to get to place a to b fast, but what's the point for these zones when you're in em for a couple hours leveling and that is it?
The fast travel in the game is kinda ridiculous, you can virtually travel any place within 10 seconds. You're just making the world feel even smaller when there is no need for it.
While I would agree that the "popularity" is very context dependent, I don't think it is due to cultural reasons. For example the localization is almost completely separate from the JP version, while it is in fact the JP version that often borrows things from the English localization team. As the result there are little to no subtle or symbolic references in the English version that only the Japanese would understand. The references to Japanese culture in the game are pretty much part of the popular culture so you don't have to be an expert on Japanese culture to get these references. If you play the Japanese version the situation is completely different, of course.
Depends on who do you ask.
With an hour to play each day, do you want to spend 30mins of it simply travelling to where the actual gameplay takes place?
With ten hours to play each day, do you want to spend a manageable portion of it to immerse yourself in the open world?
Depends on who do you ask.
With an hour to play each day, do you want to spend 30mins of it simply travelling to where the actual gameplay takes place?
With ten hours to play each day, do you want to spend a manageable portion of it to immerse yourself in the open world?
I'm not saying it has to be 30 min wait, but when you can travel anywhere in a split second it diminishes the world you created.
I think even YoshiP said or something was stated somewhere that they want less aethryte crystals in the x-pac.
Currently East Shroud has a nice balance in my opinion. Getting to the end of sylphlands takes like 5 minutes from the Aetheryte.
To OP why FF popular is because it a true Final Fantasy game with it lore and stuff, You can be a grandparent to a kid now that they made the game access to everyone( they did not change the wheel yet) . Yea it not ground breaking like the old FF games in the old days.
In almost every mmo or rpg game you see subtle hints about final fantasy stories
Final fantasy series is to gaming on the RPG side, like Star wars is to the movies or Star trek to tv You got the good one and the ok ones.
Yet influence Millions. and 3 decades of people.
Now if nintendo would grow up and give us a mmo Zelda game or mmo mario game.
Also women dig the game. So you can play the game with your girlfriend or wife or daughter.
Its popular because its name is Final Fantasy and it has mogs, chocobos and familiar items, classes and great graphics and music to go with that.
If it was a random story not based on a familiar world and super famous franchise, it would have way less players.
I bought the CE of the original version that shutdown and also re-subscribed to the new version of the game because it is final fantasy and I wanted badly to love it, but its not enough to keep me playing and enjoying it.
GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!
I am so tired of the "name brand" argument.
Basically, people are arguing that if you make a mediocre game with a HUGE brand name, it's going to be a huge success. SWTOR was a mediocre game and it still went free to play.
Final Fantasy brand name HURT ARR as much as it helped. 1.0 was so horrendous that long time SquareEnix producers, who developed games like ChronoCross was FIRED based on how bad the game was. Gigantic stock holders sold all their shares to SE based on horrible 1.0 was. YoshiP had to go on a 1 year apology tour trying to win back players that felt cheated for the CE purchases.
This was the backdrop for ARR. ARR didn't start out with "OMG, it's Final Fantasy, I HAVE to get it." It started out with people not giving it a chance because it was so horrible at first. Imagine how good a game has to be to over come that gigantic hole. All of you who make the "name brand" argument have it completely backwards.
Final Fantasy ARR is BETTER than the brand because it had to overcome 1.0. There are still people who are butt hurt, based on reading these posts, about 1.0 and will NEVER give ARR a chance.
The game is doing well because it's a good, polished game that offers something for everyone. I'm sorry that some of you just cant get that. I never liked or played a Grand Theft Auto game, but can I intellectually understand why it's so popular... yes I can. Some of you should try to understand ARR as well.
It's not ARR, it's you.
The game is a solid entry as a P2P MMORPG. Server Activity also spikes with major patch drops (3 month cycle), New Raid, Primal Fight, and 3 Dungeons always seem to be part of each major patch to date. Game Music has been solid and the game has found solid footing in the MMORPG market.
If you are on the front edge of Raiding, the new stuff has appeal to you. If you are more casual, you got plenty to do in game. The game has options, Hardcore raiders might chew thru the new content quickly which is standard but each patch keeps bringing more to the table.
Fun game, I've been enjoying playing it with my wife.
What the hell do you care? People enjoy the game as it is, and there are apparently a large enough amount to keep the game going on a subscription and to have three separate fanfests on three separate continents.
You say you've moved on, but it doesn't really seem like you have now have you?
I honestly feel this game is a lot more Western in design than people give it credit. The story follows a typical JRPG style, but most of the actual game mechanics feel like they're based on a Western game like WoW. Also, see my above comment about the fanfests to determine how popular this game is. I don't hear about other MMOs, apart from WoW (Blizzcon), that have their own fanfests.
SOE and EVE have large fanfest.
Wow, you just owned EVERYONE in this thread with that post. I don't normally go out of my way to commend a good post but this one certainly deserved it.
You are absolutely right, assholes have the name brand argument backwards. People are not playing this *just* because its FF, they are playing it because hey, its actually a fun MMO that you can sink your teeth into. Trolls gonna trolls, haters gonna hate.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
You clearly have not done the recent coils or primals.
Any, ANY - HUNDREAD FUCKING PERCENT - of the people that cleared both 1st and 2nd coil without overgearing or getting carried, will tell you that the 2nd coil is way mechanically harder.
If you got carried or did it with overgeared group, that's on you not the content.
Also ROFL "titan extreme was harder when it came out than t9" you lose all and any reason with this kind of statements, titan took less than 10 hours(probably even way less) to go down vs t9 taking 2 weeks of the top players time to beat....