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Problem of PvP: PvP consist of 2 primary roles-(Kill Shot & Healing) everything else the community c
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
I had a discussion on the effects of Social Community peer pressure has on gameplay. Well I want to dwell deeper on how this effects PvP and perhaps come up with some solutions to this issue.
I been taking a step back, and observing the social behaviors in PvP, and I noticed something.
The Community in PvP tends to focus on 1 of 2 roles when it comes to PvP, those being (Killing Blow and Healing). These two primary roles have become so important and ingrained into the Social Behavior, that peer pressure tends to require players to stick to one of those two roles, and leaving all other roles as obsolete.
Let's start by discussing more on these two roles.
Killing Blow- well might be self explanatory, but this also consist of maximizing damage output either directly, or through use of multiple targeted damage (AoE) to increase the number of chances at killing blows. Most players in PvP spec for this role. Kill kill kill.
Healing- also self explanatory, in the sense that this role consist of healing self and allies just like in PvE. The players that don't spec for max damage tend to always be this role. It's the opposite of killing, obliviously.
Well what about other roles in PvP?
What if I spec not for damage/healing, but for primarily Crowd Control? Would the PvP community be accepting of players not playing damage or healing, but simply CC?
What about a defensive tank? Would he PvP community be accepting of players playing a Tank role, and not doing much in terms of Damage or Healing?
What about a Buffer role that doesn't kill or heal?
The list goes on, but hope you get the idea.
Why are specs that aren't built to maximize Damage or Healing, frowned upon so much from the PvP Community? And as a community, when something gets frowned upon, peer pressure kicks in to prevent other members of that community from doing it.
I remember back when I use to play Vanilla Rift, and I played a Cleric in PvP. I enjoyed Healing, but I also enjoyed Melee damage. Well Melee damage Clerics were useless in PvP in Vanilla Rift. So I experimented with its Talent Tree system, and didn't Builds that wasn't always excepted by the community. Example, I would often try a Cleric Melee Tank build, and I enjoyed that play style greatly.
With my tank build, no way was I doing big burst damage to kill people. I did heal though, but not as well as healer spec clerics. But I could take a hit. And I used that to my advantage, and would run into mobs of players while gaining their attention to my cleric presence and draw as much fire towards me like a tank would in PvE. I would last pretty long but didn't do much else. But my role of PvP tanking, provided my teammates the opportunity to attack the enemy while taking less damage( since they are focus firing on me).
Cleric tank and cleric Melee in general was frowned upon, but most players I played with, never really noticed how much my tank really helped the party.
I would also play CC-Buffer builds in which I was crap at damage/healing, but I could lock down enemy players long enough for a Warrior on my team to reach them and burst them down while also buffing the Melee teammates to increase their damage.
But when I shared my build with the forum community and friends, I was laughed at as if my builds were a joke on Kings of Comedy or something... Most people never gave it a chance to see how useful it really was, because it didn't do the two main roles well (damage/healing).
What's some solutions to this community issue in PvP gameplay? I want the freedom to build and spec my own way that doesn't always have to be Healing or Killing.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
Godz of War I call Thee
AMEN Brother!!!!!
I too see this mentality in many games, such as World of Tanks.. I do like WoW's PvP stat numbers that show dps done, heals done, dps "TAKEN" etc etc.. There are many times I go "YOLO" in PvP.. YOLO stands for You Only Live Once.. My intent was not to go suicide and crazy, but to distract and draw the enemy out into a vulnerable position allowing my team to take advantage of my actions.. I will gladly sacrifice myself if I can take 3 enemy down with me..
Your comments about CC and support, I too wish was more visible and respected.. Slowing players is as important as slowing PvE mobs, but then we run into ALL the problems that lead to "balance" in classes.. In a pure PvE game we all respect support classes.. Bard? Shaman? Hunter? Druid? Ranger? etc etc However in PvP classes have been balanced down into dps and heals.. AND now even heals are being phased out.. What we are seeing is MMO's being turned into Call of Duty with swords..
WoT has dealt with this problem for over a year, and still hasn't solved it.. The community still focuses on "kill shots", and nothing else matters..
What you're discussing really has nothing to do with PvP itself, but more of mechanics in specific games. Some games revolve entirely around those 2 roles because there is no suitable use for other roles, while other games have been designed to make a larger variety of roles viable in PvP.
FFXIV Frontlines PvP has lots of tank action due to their ability to take tons of damage while repeatedly throwing CC effects at targets, especially healers. WAR was similar in that aspect as well where you had plenty of people running full defensive and / or CC based builds with the purpose of charging through the front lines and harassing healers and ranged nukers or protecting your own healers & ranged by keeping melees off of them with CC. Being a master kiter and knowing how to properly use CC as a Shadow Warrior could change the battle for your side easily too.
Also in FFXIV you will see some people playing more of a CC role than a nuker with classes such as Blackmage depending on their own, and the enemies, party makeup. Ive come up against a lot of groups with a blackmage who will focus on things like putting enemies to sleep, putting heavy debuffs on them, etc
On the flip side you have other games where pvp (or combat in general) wasnt very well thought out and broken down to a very basic level of having only the roles of killing, healing, and being a meat shield. Problem is, if a class (the tank) only has the ability to be a meat shield / aggro machine in PvE it doesnt do much good in PvP where there is no aggro and people can and do just choose to ignore you because you do crap damage and have no abilities to hinder them.
There is also a 3rd type of game where its actually a bit the opposite of what you proposed and while damage obviously matters since thats what kills something, it becomes a secondary concern when the game allows the most effective builds to be CC builds because they can instantly, and permanently, prevent someone from being able to react and fight back before dying. Highly effective stun lock builds for example. Dont need to hit very hard when your enemy cant fight back anyway.
If you want a new and interesting experience for PvP, try a Minecraft Survival PvP server. There are a lot of things Minecraft does that makes PvP a lot less shallow than in other games.
In Minecraft, battles are not fought on level ground. In fact, it is advantageous to have the higher ground due to the way the first person combat works. Consumables have a pretty major impact on gameplay, and someone who is very skilled can beat someone in the best gear while wearing the next best thing. Coupled with the fact that anyone can betray you, you run the risk of losing everything on your character if you lose a single battle so every battle is that much more thrilling.
It's a game where strategy, politics, and trickery are factors in winning - not arbitrary skill rotation trinities. I don't like the graphics, but the PvP drew me in. You can learn a lot about PvP design from playing Minecraft, good and bad.
EDIT: The above poster nails what I'm trying to get at here. There are a lot of different ways PvP can happen. Games such as Mortal Online, Minecraft and FFXIV and a few other shooters/sandbox games defy traditional PvP and add a layer of complexity.