Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Can someone explain to me why FFXIV is so popular.

2456789

Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852
    Originally posted by Pratt2112
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    No cash shop

    Well, it now does have a cash shop. A Vanity-Only, not Pay-To-Win Cash Shop... but a cash shop nonetheless. I'm not thrilled about that, at all. I've decided I can live with it, but I'm not a fan of it at all.

    Your kidding? How disappointing.

     

  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Member UncommonPosts: 492

    OP, I will say that for me it is fun. Sure I would like it better with no zoning, but I put up with it because the game is fun.

    They have a really good main story line.  You don't have to do really any side quests, although a few unlock dungeons.

    They have different crafting styles that you can work on.  They offer hunting quest that will get you medals to buy things.

    Really nice graphics and real smooth game play.  I dont have the fastest computer or top of the line graphics card, but I am able to play with fairly high graphic setting and even with a lot of people in the same area I rarely have any lag.

    So the bottom line, I tried the game, realized that I was having fun and continue to play it.

  • k11keeperk11keeper Member UncommonPosts: 1,048

    Though I am not playing right now I plan to re-sub when this semester is over.

    I think the reason is similar to the reason xi was popular. XI was popular because it was basically EQ with a final fantasy skin and now XIV is popular because it is basically WoW with a final fantasy skin. 

    Finally fantasy has a ton of avid followers, me included. I even bought and played 60% of XIII even though it was a pretty horrible game by most standards. I will admit at first I did hate XIV because of so many of the similarities it had with WoW but really the thing that bothered me above all else about WoW (besides the player base) was the cartoony looking graphics and characters. That art style bothers me more than a lot of people here seem to be bothered by the oversized glowing asian art style 

  • Gregor999Gregor999 Member Posts: 86

    Lets be honest, compared to everything else that's out there there's only 3 reasons to play FFXIV:

    1. It has Final Fantasy in the name.

    2. Music

    3. Graphics

     

    If you care about anything else there's no reason to play this over GW2 or WoW.

  • ZizouXZizouX Member Posts: 670
    Originally posted by Gregor999

    Lets be honest, compared to everything else that's out there there's only 3 reasons to play FFXIV:

    1. It has Final Fantasy in the name.

    2. Music

    3. Graphics

     

    If you care about anything else there's no reason to play this over GW2 or WoW.

    "Well, that's just like your opinion, man!"


  • Originally posted by Gregor999
    Lets be honest, compared to everything else that's out there there's only 3 reasons to play FFXIV:

    1. It has Final Fantasy in the name.

    2. Music

    3. Graphics

     

    If you care about anything else there's no reason to play this over GW2 or WoW.


    /facepalm

    Please go troll somewhere else...

  • SimsuSimsu Member UncommonPosts: 386
    Originally posted by Lazzaro
    <stuff was said>

    Because there are 7+ billion people in the world and not all of them like the same things as you. It's a dick-ish way to put it, but that's the answer to your question.

    I'm not really gonna bother answering your other questions because I don't think you're honestly interested in the answers and ultimately it all boils down to "not everyone likes what you like." I'll never understand why people are so upset that games they don't like are doing well (or that people like playing them).

  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675

    I am not playing right now because raiding is no longer something I enjoy (or can do, with current time constraints).  But I can tell you why I enjoyed it while I was playing:

     

    An actual story:  Quests were worth reading, characters were fun (excluding Minfilia), and most things to do felt like they had a purpose to me.  When I say "purpose" I mean outside of serving as a quick quest hub or a group of mobs to farm.  Mobs seem to belong, are frequently explained through quests, and npcs have real motivations and lives outside of "Ima guard and there are things that I needs ya to kill."  These quests may have been the best written in any MMO I have played.

     

    It felt epic: The music had a lot to do with this, the graphics had quite a bit to do with it, and the story had some contribution as well.  I did not feel (for the most part, there were still several times I did) like I was killing random enemies for no reason.  I felt like I was killing things to further the story, going after great bosses, pushing forward.

     

    There was a LOT to do:  seriously it felt like unlimited content between all classes and professions having stories I wanted to play through.

     

    That is my feeling, but still, I did get bored as the ending is focused on raiding.  I could have kept playing through levelling new things but it did not feel like a good idea for 15 a month.  I fully expect to go back, though, and continue my pursuit of experiencing everything.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    Don't get me wrong, Yoshi P has done an excellent job from bring it back from the dead, but I honestly don't get how it's so popular.

    Now this is my 'opinion' but it does nothing new, it's a theme park gear grind with a FF skin and to me the worst thing is everything has zone lines, even the city from one end to another you zone, this to me kills any sort of immersion or exploration in an MMO. Even WoW has nice seamless zones.

    Everything I read or watch is just about raiding dungeons, is there anything else to do but dungeons? I know there casual PvP and some crafting, but besides that it just seems like all people do is just run dungeons. I get a lot of people love that gear grind, but it just seems so boring repeating it over and over.

    I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?

    You've answered your own question.

    FF is one of those IPs that people are so overly zealous about, that they will defend even the worse games provided it has the 'Final Fantasy' brand associated with it.

    Heck, even the original release of FFXIV was defended by die hard fans. A lot of it is nostalgia for a series that has had some really great games in the past (people's childhood). Part of it is the artwork, as (if nothing else) FF tends to have some really well done aesthetics / eye candy. Some people just really like chocobos.

    It's not unlike any other pop culture craze. Why do people love star wars so much, even though most star wars products are complete trash? Because lightsabers are cool, and people don't care if the games are good or not, they just want jedi powers.

    ARR is a good game, but it doesn't really offer anything new or different. It just has the FF skin, and that's enough for a lot of people.

  • TsumoroTsumoro Member UncommonPosts: 435
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    Don't get me wrong, Yoshi P has done an excellent job from bring it back from the dead, but I honestly don't get how it's so popular.

    Now this is my 'opinion' but it does nothing new, it's a theme park gear grind with a FF skin and to me the worst thing is everything has zone lines, even the city from one end to another you zone, this to me kills any sort of immersion or exploration in an MMO. Even WoW has nice seamless zones.

    Everything I read or watch is just about raiding dungeons, is there anything else to do but dungeons? I know there casual PvP and some crafting, but besides that it just seems like all people do is just run dungeons. I get a lot of people love that gear grind, but it just seems so boring repeating it over and over.

    I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?

    The game is popular because people enjoy it, it can be no simplier than that my friend. Perhaps it does not hit those 'buttons' that you seek, but for many (myself included) it does. 

    I would however like to address some of the finer points you raise. 

    Final Fantasy 14 used to be massive and seamless, however due to limitations of technology it was for the most part, barren, recycled mazes of content that didn't really add any value to the game, if anything I found it tedious during 1.0.

    It is for those reasons again as to why the game is no longer seamless, more can be spent (with regards to the tech) in making each location a wonderful visual treat, without it impacting the game too much. If zones are or loading screens break your immersion I think you might be looking for more of a sandbox game than a themepark one. 

    Immersion of a game does not come from being able to travel to one end of the map to the other without loading, no, it comes from the games tone and execution. I am not sure if you are one for listening or reading the quests but there is plenty to be immersed in. I am fully invested, I love the story, the characters and the sub-plots that take place. This is where immersion takes place, to get you invested in the games story and its direction. Not through seamless zone switching. 

     

    Your other point, is a bit strange... You obviously understand what an MMO is and the components that goes into it, as such questing, dungeons, raids, pvp and crafting is its bread and butter. 

    You also have chocobo raising, daily hunts, guildhests, treasure hunting, exploration, vistas, riddles and mini games. When Golden Saucer comes slightly after next patch you'll have Triple Triad (my fav card game in final fantasy) Chocobo racing and various other games to play. 

    What is it you are looking for? 

     

    Now - 

    Let me tell you why I play, each quarter I am given a massive patch with lots of content for me to enjoy, these patches are legendary and come out, every quarter like clock work. I have received more in quarterly patches in content than I have received from WoW in 2 years. This patch introduced the new classes Rogue and Ninja which is great! I didn't have to wait for an expansion for them. 

     

    Future of Final Fantasy - The first expansion

    3 new classes I believe, Dark Knight confirmed, no base class, can get in and play from get-go. Other classes rumoured to be Gunner and Chemist. We find out in Tokyo Fest.

    A massive new area to explore, to be the size of existing content, this will also include floating islands to explore that will yield secrets.

    Flying mounts, that ARE NOT faster than ground mounts (thank god) used for the intent of exploration. 

    New dungeons and Raids, plus 2 new beast factions and 2 new primals

    New story

    New race

    Air ships

    And no doubt plenty more... if what they deliver in a patch is anything to go by, the expansion will be a massive undertaking. 

     

    Anyhow, that's why I like it, that's why many others do. Personally, next to WoW, Final Fantasy is the only other MMO out there worth its sub and you really get to see the benefit of your subscription. 

    Of course if the traditional themepark stuff at end game and in between does not interest you, then I refer to the above.... sandbox might be best for you, finding a good one however is hard. 

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Everyone keeps saying FFXIV "does WoW better", but I recently went to WoW after years of playing FFXIV, and prior to that Vanguard/FFXI/EQ/EQ2 etc. and found that WoW "does all of those games" better than even they now do.

     

    FFXIV needs real raiding, and until it gets that I just can't see myself playing it but I can see how people who like WoW but don't like playing with more than 7 other people could think that FFXIV was better.

     

    I mean I will definitely come back for the expansion, but FFXIV doesn't do WoW better because it doesn't have anything to compare with raiding which probably is the defining feature of WoW's endgame. 

     

    Queue someone bringing up the "fact" that only 1% of the population likes raiding or some nonesense, but that is clearly not the case if you ever log into a WoW server and see the sheer number of raids being organized, the number of raiding guilds, and the new premade group finder it is clear that it is a defining feature of the game.

     

    Not to mention that with the new expansion elite content (mythic) will now be on-server only, 20 person (no "equal" single group version), and have a lockout system that actually encourages people to progress together rather than the recent trend (as is present in FFXIV... and was started by WoW) to encourage people to PUG everything and disincentivize raiding communities/guilds.

  • ArazaleArazale Member Posts: 348
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    Don't get me wrong, Yoshi P has done an excellent job from bring it back from the dead, but I honestly don't get how it's so popular.

    Now this is my 'opinion' but it does nothing new, it's a theme park gear grind with a FF skin and to me the worst thing is everything has zone lines, even the city from one end to another you zone, this to me kills any sort of immersion or exploration in an MMO. Even WoW has nice seamless zones.

    Everything I read or watch is just about raiding dungeons, is there anything else to do but dungeons? I know there casual PvP and some crafting, but besides that it just seems like all people do is just run dungeons. I get a lot of people love that gear grind, but it just seems so boring repeating it over and over.

    I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?

    You've answered your own question.

    FF is one of those IPs that people are so overly zealous about, that they will defend even the worse games provided it has the 'Final Fantasy' brand associated with it.

    Heck, even the original release of FFXIV was defended by die hard fans. A lot of it is nostalgia for a series that has had some really great games in the past (people's childhood). Part of it is the artwork, as (if nothing else) FF tends to have some really well done aesthetics / eye candy. Some people just really like chocobos.

    It's not unlike any other pop culture craze. Why do people love star wars so much, even though most star wars products are complete trash? Because lightsabers are cool, and people don't care if the games are good or not, they just want jedi powers.

    ARR is a good game, but it doesn't really offer anything new or different. It just has the FF skin, and that's enough for a lot of people.

    Why do I get the feel that you're downtalking of FFXIV ARR just because it doesn't really offer anything new or different? Why must everything always be reinventing the wheel and be so new and exciting? God of War hasn't changed much since the first one, does that mean each incarnation of God of War is worse than the first? No. LoZ hasn't changed much in over 20 years, does that mean its getting worse because of that? No.(though it is suffering from dungeons being to easy and short)

     

     

  • Originally posted by Alders

    "Final Fantasy".

    Much like Warcraft has a loyal fanbase that grew up with the franchise, so does Final Fantasy.  

    Yeah, pretty much. A lot of people don't play ffxiv exclusively also. They just come back for a month or two after each patch. The game has ton of things to do though. There is the gear grind at end game but there is much more. 

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,768
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    Don't get me wrong, Yoshi P has done an excellent job from bring it back from the dead, but I honestly don't get how it's so popular.

    Now this is my 'opinion' but it does nothing new, it's a theme park gear grind with a FF skin and to me the worst thing is everything has zone lines, even the city from one end to another you zone, this to me kills any sort of immersion or exploration in an MMO. Even WoW has nice seamless zones.

    Everything I read or watch is just about raiding dungeons, is there anything else to do but dungeons? I know there casual PvP and some crafting, but besides that it just seems like all people do is just run dungeons. I get a lot of people love that gear grind, but it just seems so boring repeating it over and over.

    I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?

    Some people enjoy theme park gear grinds and the FF skin is something that makes the game for them.

    Also, some folks just aren't that hung up on zone lines or "immersion", they play it if it's fun and don't let inconsequential issues (to them) spoil their enjoyment.

    Heck, I am still trying to figure out what's wrong with all the people who don't like EVE, something just has to be "wrong" with them.  image

    We all have different tastes, this is  well made game that appeals to many fans of the IP, doesn't need to be any more than that.

     

    Exactly, and you could ask those questions about any game, not just FF.  

     

    If people like that stuff they will play it , if they don't they won't.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • fineflufffinefluff Member UncommonPosts: 427
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?

    In the coming months they will add the Gold Saucer which is like a mini games/events hub. I know that there will be triple triad (card battling game) and chocobo racing but I think there will be a variety of activities to participate in. Also in the expansion all the new zones will be seamless or so I've heard so you might like to check it out then.

  • GreteldaGretelda Member UncommonPosts: 359

    Luck

    IP Power

    Timing of ARR (2013)

    Japan (anime themed games have their own followers, mix that with Final Fantasy Fans, mix that with Japanese gamers that like to support their own things)

    acceptable quality

    good amount of updates

     

    as for me i liked the primal fights, the music and the graphics. didn't enjoy the story though.

     

    my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2

    most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424
    I like the boss fights and that's what keeps me playing it.
  • LazzaroLazzaro Member UncommonPosts: 548


    Originally posted by naami
    Originally posted by Lazzaro I know I'm not the audience they're attracting, but people who play besides Combat what else is there to do if you don't want to run dungeons or craft?
    In the coming months they will add the Gold Saucer which is like a mini games/events hub. I know that there will be triple triad (card battling game) and chocobo racing but I think there will be a variety of activities to participate in. Also in the expansion all the new zones will be seamless or so I've heard so you might like to check it out then.

    Is that true? Can you link that park about seamless zones?

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Gregor999

    Lets be honest, compared to everything else that's out there there's only 3 reasons to play FFXIV:

    1. It has Final Fantasy in the name.

    The failure of 1.0 has already proven that having "Final Fantasy" in the name is not as big a reason for people to play this as people, like you, want to claim.  Even fans of Final Fantasy won't play a game if it isn't fun.

    2. Music

    People will cite Music as one of the things they really like about the game. I've yet to see anyone cite Music as one of the key reasons they play it. If people like the music, they can seek out the soundtrack. They don't have to play the game, especially if the game isn't fun enough to keep them there.

    3. Graphics

     It has beautiful graphics, but I wouldn't place them too much above a number of other MMOs out there. Also, graphics won't keep people playing if the game itself isn't fun. 1.0, arguably, had nicer graphics, but that didn't help it.

    If you care about anything else there's no reason to play this over GW2 or WoW.

    People have given a number of reasons why they enjoy playing XIV throughout this thread, so it's pretty silly for you to turn around and say "there's no reason to play this over GW2 or WoW". Clearly they find their reasons enough to play it over GW2 or WoW.... because they're playing ARR, and not GW2 or WoW.

     

     

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 711

    FFXIV is one of the better themeparks out there, and coming from me, that is saying a lot.  While I got bored with the gear grind; I enjoyed the leveling process, mostly because of the story, character customization, and crafting.  I typically craft to kill time or make gold in other games.  In FFXIV, I crafted because I enjoyed it.

    I'm not playing the game right now, because frankly, I don't want to grind gear all day.  I may go back, but that depends entirely on WOW and the next expansion, and how soon SOE gets EQN out.

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Lazzaro

    You've answered your own question.

    Heck, even the original release of FFXIV was defended by die hard fans. A lot of it is nostalgia for a series that has had some really great games in the past (people's childhood). Part of it is the artwork, as (if nothing else) FF tends to have some really well done aesthetics / eye candy. Some people just really like chocobos.

    Relative to the number of people who bought 1.0, and those who remained after it crashed and burned.. there were very, very few people strongly defending anything about 1.0. A mere handful, compared to those who hated it and/or jumped ship. That's why it failed so horribly, SE froze subscriptions and they decided to rebuild it.  Not even the hardcore fans were sticking with it.

    This lie that "ARR is popular because it has Final Fantasy in the name", as a way to dismiss the game's success or popularity has to stop.

    1.0 proved, absolutely, that that is just not true.

    You don't get to just forget that 1.0 and all that followed ever happened because ARR happens to be out. You don't get to erase or revise history.

    Time to take off the blinders and accept that a game that some people clearly don't care for, is doing very well.. despite their dislike of it.

     

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Member Posts: 915
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Everyone keeps saying FFXIV "does WoW better", but I recently went to WoW after years of playing FFXIV, and prior to that Vanguard/FFXI/EQ/EQ2 etc. and found that WoW "does all of those games" better than even they now do.

    FFXIV needs real raiding, and until it gets that I just can't see myself playing it.

     

    I am very surprised that you no longer play FFXIV. You were one on of the top 3 vocal people here in MMORPG.com as well as being very active in the official forums. I can't believe that FFXIV not having raids was the sole reason for your departure (unless it was the main one). I'm deciding myself if I should return now to level up Ninja or wait till the expansion to level up Dark Knight alongside.

    image

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494
    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Everyone keeps saying FFXIV "does WoW better", but I recently went to WoW after years of playing FFXIV, and prior to that Vanguard/FFXI/EQ/EQ2 etc. and found that WoW "does all of those games" better than even they now do.

    FFXIV needs real raiding, and until it gets that I just can't see myself playing it.

     

    I am very surprised that you no longer play FFXIV. You were one on of the top 3 vocal people here in MMORPG.com as well as being very active in the official forums. I can't believe that FFXIV not having raids was the sole reason for your departure (unless it was the main one). I'm deciding myself if I should return now to level up Ninja or wait till the expansion to level up Dark Knight alongside.

    It really is the sole reason, and I played all through 1.0.

     

    Yoshida regularly referenced raids which simply became dungeons, and then raiders put hope in the Crystal Tower and that wasn't really endgame content at all.  Again in this expansion (which I'll probably try regardless) he is announcing "New hard raids" how CRYPTIC what does he mean?  Does he mean harder actual raids like Crystal Tower that raiding guilds could actually focus on?  Or does he mean more Coil-like content?  Of course he probably means coil, but boy it is nice to hope when there is so little concrete information to disappoint you...

     

    8 person group content with the kind of lockouts that FFXIV used for coil creates a very, very different kind of endgame community atmosphere than classic multi-group endgames focused on "large" raiding guilds.  It just isn't as enjoyable to me.

     

    FFXIV is fun, I enjoyed the content, and I vastly prefer the aesthetic and social atmosphere there to any other modern MMO on the market.  I like many things about the encounter design of FFXIV and that just makes it all the more disappointing that there is no option to enjoy it in my preferred style of playing an MMO.

     

    The job system's versatility begs for raiding with varied roles and niches.  Plus easy switching makes the inevitable optimal setups so much less punishing/excluding for progression raiders, something I don't think anyone enjoys about endgame but is there in single group endgames as well (and even worse at that).

     

    It could be much better than WoW, but for now WoW is really the best/only option for that kind of game play.

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Member Posts: 915
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    No cash shop

     

    Cash Shop went up today or yesterday (depending on your time zone). I know it has been said in the past that only A B C items/features will be implemented in the cash shop, but as history has shown us from other games... X Y Z items/features get added in as well. A few end up being pay to win, others while not being pay to win ends up being pretty close to it or at the very least something that the community is vocally against. So far this is what is up in the Moogle Cash Shop:

     

    https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/745x1025q90/r/540/91pz60.png

     

    https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1078x1025q90/r/538/UTOdJP.png

     

    I find it interesting that someone posted in the Guild Wars 2 forums that they don't have to worry about sleazy dev tactics and the "so called" power struggle between cash shop versus content. Well it seems that FFXIV may have very well entered into that power struggle. I was wondering what were these so called sleazy dev tactics but no specifics were given.

     

    The mount is confirmed to be account wide. I'm not sure about the minions or hats. They better be since ArenaNet allows those items to be account wide as well considering they are B2P and not P2P. The mount could have been cheaper since other companies have offered account wide mounts at a lower price, unless someone wants to jump in and give the same canned answer in that "Well Blizzard has mounts at those prices."

     

    Yoshida has officially talked about the cash shop and F2P topics in the past already and that he would take both into consideration. These were posted months ago. FFXIV will never go F2P or will never have a cash shop because FFXI does not... no longer rings true. Those same people that said that FFXIV would never have a cash shop have now "suddenly" stated "Oh well now SE can make more money since this is the current MMO market trend." Pretty convenient to make a 180 degree turn. I wonder how people will take the news the day the game goes F2P.

     

    Here is the list if the remaining P2P (exclusive) MMORPGs: those with and without cash shops:

     

    Dark Age of Camelot 2001
    A Tale in the Desert 2003
    EVE Online 2003 (Cash shop)
    FFXI 2003
    World of Warcraft 2004 (Cash shop)
    Vendetta Online 2004


    DarkFall 2009 (Asia sector has a cash shop)
    The Hammers End 2013
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 2013 (Cash Shop)
    The Elder Scrolls Online 2014 (Cash Shop)
    WildStar 2014 (Will most likely have a cash shop or change its business model before the end of the year: take also into account that this game is published by NCSOFT)

     

    Of the 10 remaining MMORPGs that use the P2P business model exclusively (I'm not counting Wildstar anymore at the moment) you only have 5 games in total that are P2P and have no cash shop.

     

    Out of the 600+ games online it is now effectively less than 1% of the total western market that follow the above criteria.

    image

  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941
    Encounter design on endgame is what keeps me playing. They are well thought out. I can't wait to see Shiva ex and final coil now. Another poster above me complained that raids are not the endgame fights but that is exactly why I like it. On massive parties it becomes too chaotic, each player has less responsibility and it feels like you're a nobody in the fight. On ffxiv endgame is 8 players and each and everyone of them can wipe the party with only one mistake.

    Another reason why I play is content. They pump new content like crazy. Its been one year since arr came out and they added so much to it over the year.
Sign In or Register to comment.