Originally posted by motanila I am not sure what is this fuss about big money. In eve titans used to cost 5k and they had no lti. So 2k for a carrier/mothership looks to me like a good deal.
Apples/Oranges. The PLEX that CCP sells cost $20 and is 30 days of game time.
Yeah, you can sell that for ingame cash, which in sufficient amount will pay for a Titan. But that is ingame mechanics, involving the player driven economy and many other aspects.
If CCP directly sold Carriers or Titans (with lifetime insurence no less) the sandbox would collaps very fast and EVE would be dead within months. Selling items like this to players directly will prevent SC from ever becoming a Sandbox MMO like EVE which I know many backers still belive and dream is what this game will be.
It can become a different sort of Sandbox MMO, sure, but not like EVE.
Fair enough. I stopped played eve couple years ago. The death penality it was too harsh and too much farm was involved.
SC will offer alll i want, an endless stram of ships to pvp without farm.
There's more ways of gaining ISK in-game than there will ever be in any other game ever.
The game provides you with so many tools that even after 8 years people still find new ways of making ISK.
To those that say that the makers of Star Citizen break the law .... SUE THEM.
If you win in court, you were right. If you don't ..... well, thats an answer in itself.
If you just keep up with your claims that they break the law and don't provide any solid evidence like a court verdict ..... you are free to make a fool out of yourself anytime.
To those that criticize that OTHERS are using THEIR money to finanze YOUR game while you DON'T have to pay more than 30 $ to get the finished game (half the price of a typical video game) ....
To those that cititicize that the game takes too long to develop .... you yourself signed (in the Terms of Service), that you agree to possible delays in the development of game. Don't like it ? Don't sign it !
To those that cititicize that the game takes too long to develop .... you yourself signed (in the Terms of Service), that you agree to possible delays in the development of game. Don't like it ? Don't sign it !
I think it's safe to say that it's a good thing you're not working for the RSI Marketing department.
"Yeah we delayed the game because we can and there's nothing you can do about it since we have your money already! Feel free to buy another ship though!"
"Yeah ... we delayed the game because developing video games is a non-linear process that is notoriously hard to plan and often leads to schedule changes .... not to mention that we create a Triple-A game in a radical new way without a publisher or bank loans and had to break some world records along the way..."
"Yeah ... we delayed the game because developing video games is a non-linear process that is notoriously hard to plan and often leads to schedule changes .... not to mention that we create a Triple-A game in a radical new way without a publisher or bank loans and had to break some world records along the way..."
One Guiness book of records not "some".
Also people have been developing games without developers for years and years... or did you think CR invented Kickstarer as well?
Why is it that whenever you want to praise SC you only bring up the money it has raised?
Also people have been developing games without developers for years and years... or did you think CR invented Kickstarer as well?
Why is it that whenever you want to praise SC you only bring up the money it has raised?
Actually its at least two world records so far:
1. Biggest crowdfunding video game project
2. Biggest crowdfunding project - ANY category
To my knowledge no one has yet developed a Triple-A class crowdfunded video game. And I assume you mean "without publishers" and not "without developers" .... THAT would be a true achievement ;-) However, if you know one, let me know. I might add Elite:Dangerous to the list ... i am so far undecided about E:D there ....
>>> Why is it that whenever you want to praise SC you only bring up the money it has raised?>>> Because you ignore all my other posts where I speak about technical/gameplay/managerial/PR- achievements ;-) Selective memory, I guess.
Yep, MMO's are always the best before they're released.
Seeing people cry about their $150 AA alpha was amusing. But I'm gonna lose it when I see people crying because they bought $2k ships in this game and didn't end up liking the game.
To my knowledge no one has yet developed a Triple-A class crowdfunded video game.
I think you're rignt.
Well that praises their marketing team doesn't it (and their awesome artists)? It says absolutely nothing about their ability to make a game.
>>> Why is it that whenever you want to praise SC you only bring up the money it has raised?>>> Because you ignore all my other posts where I speak about technical/gameplay/managerial/PR- achievements ;-) Selective memory, I guess.
Technical: They're pushing the CryEngine to the limits sure.. they're also adding double precision and 64bit.. we'll see how that pans out once it's done, you can't really praise it before it's done can you?
Gameplay: Again... AC isn't really praise-worthy of anything. Once the other modules come out and start working together then we'll be able to praise it. Again we have to wait.
Managerial: I'm not sure what you mean here.. sure it's a big project, sure they hired a lot of people, they seem to be managing everything ok, but they have come up with numerous problems.. from making other studios all work on AC to missing every release date they've made public. Worthy of praise? I don't think so..
PR: They seem to be doing what every other large gaming company with lots of money would be doing... not sure what you mean here.
Maybe you can remind me of some of the achievements you said you mentioned. Clearly I don't recall.
It looks like there is some heavy trading going on behind the scene already. And why am I not surprised that our very own EVE Online Goonswarm head honcho The Mittani is in the thick of it ? ,-)
Technical: They're pushing the CryEngine to the limits sure.. they're also adding double precision and 64bit.. we'll see how that pans out once it's done, you can't really praise it before it's done can you?
--> Hopefully we will see more about the CryEngine performance this coming weekend. They DID re-write basically the whole CryEngine code for increased quality.
Gameplay: Again... AC isn't really praise-worthy of anything. Once the other modules come out and start working together then we'll be able to praise it. Again we have to wait.
--> Yep ..... we have to wait for a "feature complete" Alpha version for a more in depth analysis
Managerial: I'm not sure what you mean here.. sure it's a big project, sure they hired a lot of people, they seem to be managing everything ok, but they have come up with numerous problems.. from making other studios all work on AC to missing every release date they've made public. Worthy of praise? I don't think so..
--> I know some people that worked on "The Lord of the Rings" at WETA. There was a special spirit there when they were making the movies. From what i heard so far from others, the Star Citizen team has the same special spirit. Some famous managers say that "Know-Why" matters even more than "Know-How". And the Star Citizen team seems to follow that credo. --> http://mainstreamlifesolutions.com/shop/?p=95
PR: They seem to be doing what every other large gaming company with lots of money would be doing... not sure what you mean here.
--> Put your heart into it, wallets will follow ;-)
--> You cannot buy dedication. You can only pay overtime with that "lots of money".
--> Dedication will beat Overtime ... and it shows.
Maybe you can remind me of some of the achievements you said you mentioned. Clearly I don't recall.
--> Hopefully we will see more about the CryEngine performance this coming weekend. They DID re-write basically the whole CryEngine code for increased quality.
Erm no, they didn't "re-write the whole CryEngine code"... please doesn't exaggerate. They're re-writing parts of it and adding stuff to it. Part of this is because they bought an engine that specializes in FPS games.
--> Yep ..... we have to wait for a "feature complete" Alpha version for a more in depth analysis
So why are you saying that it has gameplay achievements when now you're saying it's too early to judge? That was my point.
--> I know some people that worked on "The Lord of the Rings" at WETA. There was a special spirit there when they were making the movies. From what i heard so far from others, the Star Citizen team has the same special spirit.
Where did you hear that? Because an ex-employee painted a VERY different picture. I'm sure you know the story.
--> Put your heart into it, wallets will follow ;-)
--> You cannot buy dedication. You can only pay overtime with that "lots of money".
--> Dedication will beat Overtime ... and it shows.
Quotes? Really? That's your argument? :P
Maybe you can remind me of some of the achievements you said you mentioned. Clearly I don't recall.
Huh!? SC is mentioned in one sentence among many other games. This isn't an article about SC, it's about the changes in game development (mostly with no publishers). You do realize there's been countless of very good games that have come out from crowdfunding right? Did you read the article you linked?
I'd love to see more of these achievements you posted about and I ignored....
To those that cititicize that the game takes too long to develop .... you yourself signed (in the Terms of Service), that you agree to possible delays in the development of game. Don't like it ? Don't sign it !
I think it's safe to say that it's a good thing you're not working for the RSI Marketing department.
"Yeah we delayed the game because we can and there's nothing you can do about it since we have your money already! Feel free to buy another ship though!"
:P
Keep hammering that money argument.
Interesting enough you do not complain about GTA V costing 200 million $, but SC with 59 million is somehow exorbitant, insane, or what? What´s your special interest to badmouth this game and its development? 2 years in and it´s not out yet, fine, that is the problem? GTA V took 5 years, SWTOR took what, 6-7 years?
Get your double standards checked.
SC got more budget than expected, and the game will get bigger than expected, big deal. So what?
To those that cititicize that the game takes too long to develop .... you yourself signed (in the Terms of Service), that you agree to possible delays in the development of game. Don't like it ? Don't sign it !
I think it's safe to say that it's a good thing you're not working for the RSI Marketing department.
"Yeah we delayed the game because we can and there's nothing you can do about it since we have your money already! Feel free to buy another ship though!"
:P
Keep hammering that money argument.
Interesting enough you do not complain about GTA V costing 200 million $, but SC with 59 million is somehow exorbitant, insane, or what? What´s your special interest to badmouth this game and its development? 2 years in and it´s not out yet, fine, that is the problem? GTA V took 5 years, SWTOR took what, 6-7 years?
Get your double standards checked.
SC got more budget than expected, and the game will get bigger than expected, big deal. So what?
You should look up what keeping double standards actually means DocBrody.
Erm no, they didn't "re-write the whole CryEngine code"... please doesn't exaggerate. They're re-writing parts of it and adding stuff to it.
--> rewriting and adding stuff to it ... errm ... thats how you define re-writing an existing code ;-) Otherwise it would be called "writing new code"
So why are you saying that it has gameplay achievements when now you're saying it's too early to judge? That was my point.
--> It has advanced gameplay in its various modules already (e.g. implementing a complete Newtonian flight engine based on first principle physics ... where the flying experience changes as bits start to be shot off by thy dastardly enemies).
--> It is too early to judge how these modules will interact ! For THAT we have to wait for "feature complete". That was MY point.
Where did you hear that?
--> Personal contact.
Because an ex-employee painted a VERY different picture. I'm sure you know the story.
--> I know the story. I personally do not know this ex employee - cannot say anything about his story.
--> Put your heart into it, wallets will follow ;-)
--> You cannot buy dedication. You can only pay overtime with that "lots of money".
--> Dedication will beat Overtime ... and it shows.
Quotes? Really? That's your argument? :P
--> Go ahead. Google this and see if these are quotes or something i wrote on the spot. Go ahead ! ;-)
Huh!? SC is mentioned in one sentence among many other games.
--> Correct
This isn't an article about SC, it's about the changes in game development (mostly with no publishers).
--> Correct.
You do realize there's been countless of very good games that have come out from crowdfunding right?
--> I realize that. I also realize that publishers wont bat an eyelash about a crowdfunded game that raises 1, 2 or 3 million. Now ... 50+ million bucks ... THATS when they start lift their butts ...
Erm no, they didn't "re-write the whole CryEngine code"... please doesn't exaggerate. They're re-writing parts of it and adding stuff to it.
--> rewriting and adding stuff to it ... errm ... thats how you define re-writing an existing code ;-) Otherwise it would be called "writing new code"
You said they were re-writing the whole code. Do you know what "whole" means?
--> It has advanced gameplay in its various modules already (e.g. implementing a complete Newtonian flight engine based on first principle physics ... where the flying experience changes as bits start to be shot off by thy dastardly enemies).
Sorry to break it to you but Star Citizen doesn't have a true Newtonian flight system. Neither does it have advanced gameplay. In fact as far as space sims go, it has a very simplistic gameplay right now.
--> It is too early to judge how these modules will interact ! For THAT we have to wait for "feature complete". That was MY point.
Quotes? Really? That's your argument? :P
--> Go ahead. Google this and see if these are quotes or something i wrote on the spot. Go ahead ! ;-)
My point is that quotes aren't really an argument, not that they weren't quotes ;P
This isn't an article about SC, it's about the changes in game development (mostly with no publishers).
--> Correct.
So WHY are you linking it then as an achievement for SC? Especially when you said you mentioned achievements that have nothing to do with how much money it's raised. I think you're a bit confused
--> I realize that. I also realize that publishers wont bat an eyelash about a crowdfunded game that raises 1, 2 or 3 million. Now ... 50+ million bucks ... THATS when they start lift their butts ...
Why would PUBLISHERS bat an eye lash about crowdfunded games? And if they did are you saying that they'll only "lift their butts" when a game reaches 50mil? So they'd only lift their butts for ONE game?
<div message"="">Development is complicated and it's rare that I get to issue anything absolute... but this is one of those times. We aren't selling an escort carrier for Christmas, or building one with the features listed.
Thx for the Update. No Carrier for X-Mas then ;-) >>>My opninion is that this ship will be great but a 1-2 retaliators and 1-2 Constelations would make short wortk of it.<<<<br />Going through a 10 "Hornet" combat Air patrol with a Torpedo Bomber with long lock on times wont be easy ! And the Constellations will be Big enough to be hit with the larger calibre guns of Carrier and carrier escort group fregates/cruisers. (Thinking Wing Commander Style here). Have fun
Originally posted by Erillion Some famous managers say that "Know-Why" matters even more than "Know-How". And the Star Citizen team seems to follow that credo. --> http://mainstreamlifesolutions.com/shop/?p=95
Oh seriously, if I hear that one more time I am seriously going to rage. I don't know which famous managers you talk of but hopefully these famous managers were good at what they did and rightfully became famous. Since they were good managers they had the ability to pick the right people for the job.
This means that the people they worked with already had some at least basic Know How. Once you have sensible people and sensible managers teamwork and communication is indeed more important then individual skills but it does not mean you can teach your freakin cat to code, even if you like it more then your company's IT guys.
I don't know if the SC managers are as good as those "famous managers" of yours. Hopefully they are.
PS: Unlike the quote, the provided link is actually sensible.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
Originally posted by Erillion Some famous managers say that "Know-Why" matters even more than "Know-How". And the Star Citizen team seems to follow that credo. --> http://mainstreamlifesolutions.com/shop/?p=95
Oh seriously, if I hear that one more time I am seriously going to rage. I don't know which famous managers you talk of
Some examples:
--> "The manager asks how and when; the leader asks what and why." - Warren Bennis (expert on leadership for 4 US presidents)
--> "Leaders conceive and articulate goals that lift people out of their petty preoccupations and unite them in pursuit of objectives worthy of their best efforts." - John Gardner
--> "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." - General George Patton
but hopefully these famous managers were good at what they did and rightfully became famous. Since they were good managers they had the ability to pick the right people for the job.
This means that the people they worked with already had some at least basic Know How.
--> I agree. Know Why is more important than Know How, but Know How is important too.
Once you have sensible people and sensible managers teamwork and communication is indeed more important then individual skills but it does not mean you can teach your freakin cat to code,
--> "..His innovations changed the gaming industry. ..", "...won numerous gaming awards ..", ".. set a new standard in PC games and evolved into a franchise series of game titles..", "..created a whole new genre within the gaming industry known as the "interactive movie.", "... won a record setting number of gaming awards ...".
PS: Unlike the quote, the provided link is actually sensible.
I already posted that CIG is denying it. I guess we will see in time if my source was wrong or right. And all specs are subject to change anyway. A carrier that is 75% of the size of the idris could be a "different" ship.
Comments
There's more ways of gaining ISK in-game than there will ever be in any other game ever.
The game provides you with so many tools that even after 8 years people still find new ways of making ISK.
..Cake..
This small carrier sounds like the escort carrier. 15 M$ stretch goal.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To those that say that the makers of Star Citizen break the law .... SUE THEM.
If you win in court, you were right. If you don't ..... well, thats an answer in itself.
If you just keep up with your claims that they break the law and don't provide any solid evidence like a court verdict ..... you are free to make a fool out of yourself anytime.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To those that criticize that OTHERS are using THEIR money to finanze YOUR game while you DON'T have to pay more than 30 $ to get the finished game (half the price of a typical video game) ....
... keep enjoying your half empty glass of bile.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To those that cititicize that the game takes too long to develop .... you yourself signed (in the Terms of Service), that you agree to possible delays in the development of game. Don't like it ? Don't sign it !
Have fun
I think it's safe to say that it's a good thing you're not working for the RSI Marketing department.
"Yeah we delayed the game because we can and there's nothing you can do about it since we have your money already! Feel free to buy another ship though!"
:P
..Cake..
"Yeah ... we delayed the game because developing video games is a non-linear process that is notoriously hard to plan and often leads to schedule changes .... not to mention that we create a Triple-A game in a radical new way without a publisher or bank loans and had to break some world records along the way..."
Have fun
One Guiness book of records not "some".
Also people have been developing games without developers for years and years... or did you think CR invented Kickstarer as well?
Why is it that whenever you want to praise SC you only bring up the money it has raised?
..Cake..
Actually its at least two world records so far:
1. Biggest crowdfunding video game project
2. Biggest crowdfunding project - ANY category
To my knowledge no one has yet developed a Triple-A class crowdfunded video game. And I assume you mean "without publishers" and not "without developers" .... THAT would be a true achievement ;-) However, if you know one, let me know. I might add Elite:Dangerous to the list ... i am so far undecided about E:D there ....
>>> Why is it that whenever you want to praise SC you only bring up the money it has raised?>>> Because you ignore all my other posts where I speak about technical/gameplay/managerial/PR- achievements ;-) Selective memory, I guess.
Have fun
Yep, MMO's are always the best before they're released.
Seeing people cry about their $150 AA alpha was amusing. But I'm gonna lose it when I see people crying because they bought $2k ships in this game and didn't end up liking the game.
lol...
I think you're rignt.
Well that praises their marketing team doesn't it (and their awesome artists)? It says absolutely nothing about their ability to make a game.
Technical: They're pushing the CryEngine to the limits sure.. they're also adding double precision and 64bit.. we'll see how that pans out once it's done, you can't really praise it before it's done can you?
Gameplay: Again... AC isn't really praise-worthy of anything. Once the other modules come out and start working together then we'll be able to praise it. Again we have to wait.
Managerial: I'm not sure what you mean here.. sure it's a big project, sure they hired a lot of people, they seem to be managing everything ok, but they have come up with numerous problems.. from making other studios all work on AC to missing every release date they've made public. Worthy of praise? I don't think so..
PR: They seem to be doing what every other large gaming company with lots of money would be doing... not sure what you mean here.
Maybe you can remind me of some of the achievements you said you mentioned. Clearly I don't recall.
..Cake..
Well, they can always sell their 2000 $ ships with a significant mark-up ;-)
http://themittani.com/features/star-citizens-grey-market
It looks like there is some heavy trading going on behind the scene already. And why am I not surprised that our very own EVE Online Goonswarm head honcho The Mittani is in the thick of it ? ,-)
Have fun
Have fun
..Cake..
Keep hammering that money argument.
Interesting enough you do not complain about GTA V costing 200 million $, but SC with 59 million is somehow exorbitant, insane, or what? What´s your special interest to badmouth this game and its development? 2 years in and it´s not out yet, fine, that is the problem? GTA V took 5 years, SWTOR took what, 6-7 years?
Get your double standards checked.
SC got more budget than expected, and the game will get bigger than expected, big deal. So what?
You should look up what keeping double standards actually means DocBrody.
..Cake..
Hello, this thread is about a carrier and it's 10 hornets, not about hoe much money dev got, please stay on topic.
My opninion is that this ship will be great but a 1-2 retaliators and 1-2 Constelations would make short wortk of it.
..Cake..
Looks like my source was wrong. CIG is denying it on their forums:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/194146/escort-carrier-for-xmass#latest
Posted:
<div message"="">Development is complicated and it's rare that I get to issue anything absolute... but this is one of those times. We aren't selling an escort carrier for Christmas, or building one with the features listed.No Carrier for X-Mas then ;-)
>>>My opninion is that this ship will be great but a 1-2 retaliators and 1-2 Constelations would make short wortk of it.<<<<br />Going through a 10 "Hornet" combat Air patrol with a Torpedo Bomber with long lock on times wont be easy ! And the Constellations will be Big enough to be hit with the larger calibre guns of Carrier and carrier escort group fregates/cruisers. (Thinking Wing Commander Style here).
Have fun
Oh seriously, if I hear that one more time I am seriously going to rage. I don't know which famous managers you talk of but hopefully these famous managers were good at what they did and rightfully became famous. Since they were good managers they had the ability to pick the right people for the job.
This means that the people they worked with already had some at least basic Know How. Once you have sensible people and sensible managers teamwork and communication is indeed more important then individual skills but it does not mean you can teach your freakin cat to code, even if you like it more then your company's IT guys.
I don't know if the SC managers are as good as those "famous managers" of yours. Hopefully they are.
PS: Unlike the quote, the provided link is actually sensible.
Please lock this post .. the "NEWS" are fake and made up :P
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3683907/#Comment_3683907
I already posted that CIG is denying it. I guess we will see in time if my source was wrong or right. And all specs are subject to change anyway. A carrier that is 75% of the size of the idris could be a "different" ship.