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Anet decides to screw the Guild Wars 2 community with the latest update

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by grimal 

    How would you rate this by comparison of what other b2p models have done? Such as TSW, Tera...

    I'd have to know what they did first, and to be clear I was making a point about never putting into a game after an initial purchase, and what happens when you don't. While the game still costs zero for you going forward, the price just went up for someone else more or less.. They have to make their profits somewhere.

    Where I questioned your logic earlier was specifically about this. The game didn't get more expensive for someone else. I'm questioning the connection that this is about players not buying enough gems. I think it's just as possible this is about inhibiting players from gaming the buy/sell market and getting really cheap gems. That is a problem (and a criticism previously leveled at ANet) for almost every game with a currency exchange or "PLEX" like exchange.

    ANet sells the box on sale for much less than the original price. If they needed to squeeze more revenue then they wouldn't lower the box price either. I'm not convinced this has anything to do with players not buying enough gems. I also don't see it as an unfair change. It could keep gem purchases fair across all players and not just those who game the market.

    WIth all due respect I have to disagree changes like this aren't about revenue. People are going to complain regardless of such a change, and most devs should know chicken little will rear it's head along with such changes. That's inevitable.

    The BOx price is lowered because of falling sales, that's also inevitable. Yet Box sales and continued regular income are two different things. Especially when entering into the era where expansions are expected. They're also running an ongoing service, on top of building a game. That's a lot to pay for. Regular monthly income is a high priority in relation to that. I think you might be underplaying the importance of Gem sales, and what they make off it.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

    I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

     

    Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

     

    F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

     

     

    We're also taking about a dev company that is a shadow of their former selves (Arenanet) being pressured by a rather notorious publisher (NCSoft). Better still, Nexon has gained a large stock share in NCSoft, and this event coincided with much of the initial cash grabbing in the Guild Wars 2 shop.

     

     

    I still advocate B2P. Because when it's done well (as in Guild Wars 1), it's the best model out there. It gives players what they pay for, allows them to control their spending, and encourages/forces the devs to put out content.

     

     

  • saurus123saurus123 Member UncommonPosts: 676

    you can all riot at something else now

     

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Lets-talk-about-the-new-Gem-conversion-Merged/page/34#post4507962

    Here’s an update for you:

    It’s clear that quite a lot of you would like to have greater flexibility in using the Currency Exchange. Our intention when we designed the new interface was to streamline large volume purchases, which make up the majority of transactions.

    In light of your feedback, we will update the Currency Exchange so that you can decide how you want to use it. We will keep the new streamlined system and also offer a new “Custom” button on the panel that you can use to exchange any increment of gems or gold.

    We anticipate rolling this out soon. Stay tuned!

    ~~~~~

    Sorry for the delay in posting this, but out of respect to our international community, we wanted to be able to post in several forums at once.

     
  • zimboy69zimboy69 Member UncommonPosts: 395

    as someone who has 30k  gems in guildwars 2

     

    im more confused what people want to buy with these gems

     

    weekly i join the game  look in the store and see nothing to buy

    so unless your very vain and really need a certain skin or a mini pet or a character slot  or more bags slots    i do not know what people need gems for

     

    i know there are few items above but they are all one time purchases and not everyone will want them all plus  once you have them   they dont get taken away

     

     

     

    I have known for ages gems are too cheap,  I was earning between 50-100 gold a day  (i don't anymore because i'm too busy in real life ) i told guild mates to buy gems they are too cheap  they are still are too cheap 

    when the expansion hits if you can buy the expansion  with gems you will see the price double if not tripple in a day

     

     

    image

  • ScalplessScalpless Member UncommonPosts: 1,426
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    I do blame the players that staunchly advocated and defended F2P/ B2P for where we are now, true.

    Exactly. This one instance proves all B2P models are awful and subs lead to a bright future of brilliant, successful games like SWTOR and Wildstar. One could claim it's all about the execution in both cases and the B2P model that was sold to people isn't the one in use right now, but surely we mustn't be reasonable?

    In your rush to be 'cuttingly' sarcastic, you seem to have missed the point.

    No one said SWTOR or WS were made better games by being a sub, where did you get that from? SWTOR, for example, is a crap game IMO sub or F2P.... It's not worth my time whatever.

    What was said is that the current state of monetisation in these games was allowed to happen by the players, and that the advocates and defenders of the model in regards to GW2 were told repeatedly that this kind of practice is where it would end up.

    See the part in red? That's pointed out because it backs my point up. The B2P advocates for GW2 emotionally bought into the spin of Anet over the common sense of a minority of posters here on these forums. They are warned about slippery slopes and the bed they were making, and yet they argued bitterly to defend it. And now they are here complaining about it.

    I don't have much sympathy for people that make their own beds after not listening and then whine about it

    No, they bought a game that was marketed as doing X. When it was updated to doing Y, they got pissed, so the devs are changing it back to X. So, I guess it wasn't allowed?

    You try to make it sound as if the B2P model being misused is some common sense, but it works fine in GW1, it works fine in TSW and it works mostly fine in GW2, with some stupid stunts by ANet from time to time. ANet's stupid stunts are what's weakening this game in its every aspect, however, so I'd blame it on their poor management and not on the game being B2P.

  • illyanaillyana Member UncommonPosts: 614

    we are seeing the effects of the time when Nexon got into the picture in the person of their MONETIZATION MANAGER at Arenanet and changed so many things in their philosophy in favor of the overhead


    i've always thought that its uncharacteristic of the original Arenanet team to be doing the things that are happening to the cash shop. you can always google her name wink wink

    http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

    image
    Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max

  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791

    To all the haters, doomsayers and naysayers I'm really sorry to burst your bubble, but ANet actually reverted this move

    /thread off

    Now go back again at ranting how there is no grind in Gw2, right next to the thread that says how grindy gw2 is :) 

    Sources: http://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-players-angry-over-currency-exchange-chang-1649519173

    Since MMORPG staff is too busy infracting people that are not causing flame wars than covering something that actually matters ;) (pun intended) 

  • ZzadZzad Member UncommonPosts: 1,401
    Originally posted by saurus123

    you can all riot at something else now

     

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Lets-talk-about-the-new-Gem-conversion-Merged/page/34#post4507962

    Here’s an update for you:

    It’s clear that quite a lot of you would like to have greater flexibility in using the Currency Exchange. Our intention when we designed the new interface was to streamline large volume purchases, which make up the majority of transactions.

    In light of your feedback, we will update the Currency Exchange so that you can decide how you want to use it. We will keep the new streamlined system and also offer a new “Custom” button on the panel that you can use to exchange any increment of gems or gold.

    We anticipate rolling this out soon. Stay tuned!

    ~~~~~

    Sorry for the delay in posting this, but out of respect to our international community, we wanted to be able to post in several forums at once.

     

    Good to see them step back on that.

    Now let´s see how long untill they fix it...

     

  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791
    Originally posted by Zzad
    Originally posted by saurus123

    you can all riot at something else now

     

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Lets-talk-about-the-new-Gem-conversion-Merged/page/34#post4507962

    Here’s an update for you:

    It’s clear that quite a lot of you would like to have greater flexibility in using the Currency Exchange. Our intention when we designed the new interface was to streamline large volume purchases, which make up the majority of transactions.

    In light of your feedback, we will update the Currency Exchange so that you can decide how you want to use it. We will keep the new streamlined system and also offer a new “Custom” button on the panel that you can use to exchange any increment of gems or gold.

    We anticipate rolling this out soon. Stay tuned!

    ~~~~~

    Sorry for the delay in posting this, but out of respect to our international community, we wanted to be able to post in several forums at once.

     

    Good to see them step back on that.

    Now let´s see how long untill they fix it...

     

    Next patch day of course. So maximum ETA 2 weeks. 

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    First the old UI was a bit stupid - you couldn't say "I want to buy x amount of gems".

    Second, the change is to gold to gems and gems to gold exchange, which involves no real money.

    Yeah, this change is annoying because it doesn't allow people to go buy the last 20 or 25 gems they need to buy that 225 or 250 item. They have to buy 400 gems and if they have no in game gold they need to buy gems with real money.

    But lets see if Anet introduce changes since they generally listen to the community (for example they backtracked on their intention to sell commander colors for 300g and just gave all the colors to any old commanders that had only spent 100g or new commanders that spent 300g alike).

    Of course the majority of the people affected in this thread are the one that don't play GW2...

    Oh please. You act like the under-lying motive behind this change was for the benefit of the players. It is completely obvious what their intentions were. There is no reason to hate them for it because, after all, they do need to make money. The sad part is when people attempt to justify it using other reasons. 

    Oh look.

    They going to change it which means it was an overall improvement.

    Guess the need for money went away and/or it is not as strong as the the voice of the community.

    /sarc on

    Anet such a bad, evil company!

    /sarc off

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Over 9 years since the release of Guild Wars 1 and some people still can't stand games that provide quality compared to the $15/month games for whatever amount you want to pay.

    B2P with cash shop is a viable model to support online games in a fair way for both costumers and publishers/studios.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873

    Moves like these are made out of necessity. I doubt they did this because Anet hates its playerbase but because they got to make money to survive. They have released no expansion or any kind of paid content to get back players and they purely survive on cash shop.

     

    I just wish they were up front and honest about it instead of hiding behind 'simplicity'.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Leon1e
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    First the old UI was a bit stupid - you couldn't say "I want to buy x amount of gems".

    Second, the change is to gold to gems and gems to gold exchange, which involves no real money.

    Yeah, this change is annoying because it doesn't allow people to go buy the last 20 or 25 gems they need to buy that 225 or 250 item. They have to buy 400 gems and if they have no in game gold they need to buy gems with real money.

    But lets see if Anet introduce changes since they generally listen to the community (for example they backtracked on their intention to sell commander colors for 300g and just gave all the colors to any old commanders that had only spent 100g or new commanders that spent 300g alike).

    Of course the majority of the people affected in this thread are the one that don't play GW2...

    Oh please. You act like the under-lying motive behind this change was for the benefit of the players. It is completely obvious what their intentions were. There is no reason to hate them for it because, after all, they do need to make money. The sad part is when people attempt to justify it using other reasons. 

    Oh look.

    They going to change it which means it was an overall improvement.

    Guess the need for money went away and/or it is not as strong as the the voice of the community.

    /sarc on

    Anet such a bad, evil company!

    /sarc off

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Over 9 years since the release of Guild Wars 1 and some people still can't stand games that provide quality compared to the $15/month games for whatever amount you want to pay.

    B2P with cash shop is a viable model to support online games in a fair way for both costumers and publishers/studios.

    I'm fairly certain that steve here has some personal Gw2 vendetta. Either his guild left WoW to join Gw2, thus making him guild hunt again (which may be unpleasant) or he never accustomed himself to the mechanics of the game and was getting wrecked in PvP as well as PvE. 

    That's all but a guess though. Based on the amount of hatred he spills in every "anti"-Gw2 thread. Even the TESO whiteknights gave up long ago. With the exception of bcbully but he's not really throwing any arguments ^^ 

    Nice ad hominem argument.! image When all else fails......

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    Moves like these are made out of necessity. I doubt they did this because Anet hates its playerbase but because they got to make money to survive. They have released no expansion or any kind of paid content to get back players and they purely survive on cash shop.

     

    I just wish they were up front and honest about it instead of hiding behind 'simplicity'.

    I think your information is a bit outdated since they announced they will implement a "custom" option that allows the player to specify the amount of gems he wants to buy.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Well, the change is an obvious attempt to nudge people to spend real money on gems that is for sure. I do enjoy how companies love to try and play off such moves as 'benefiting the player' in some way when its the complete opposite. 
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    The game has become really dull and every new content and event update seems really stupid to me. When the game first came out it was cool and interesting. And with this i'm not even surprised by it.  The direction the game is going gets worse all the time. But as long as it has no monthly fee it will be popular. Thats all it really has going for itself . If you had to pay monthly for it i would bet it would be just an average mmo on the market.
  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    Moves like these are made out of necessity. I doubt they did this because Anet hates its playerbase but because they got to make money to survive. They have released no expansion or any kind of paid content to get back players and they purely survive on cash shop.

     

    I just wish they were up front and honest about it instead of hiding behind 'simplicity'.

    I think your information is a bit outdated since they announced they will implement a "custom" option that allows the player to specify the amount of gems he wants to buy.

    My comment wasn't just about the change but the 'intention'. I don't know how else to explain myself more clearly.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • cowheadcowhead Member UncommonPosts: 94


    Originally posted by Purutzil
    Well, the change is an obvious attempt to nudge people to spend real money on gems that is for sure. I do enjoy how companies love to try and play off such moves as 'benefiting the player' in some way when its the complete opposite. 

    Sort of does. Active players want more content, an expansion or both. Those cost money. They want you to spend more money. Of course its greed but that's what business is. A desire to make as much money as possible. The more money flowing in the better chance you have of actual content updates. It might not be their primary reason for the change but you have a better chance of getting more if they actually have money coming in.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    Moves like these are made out of necessity. I doubt they did this because Anet hates its playerbase but because they got to make money to survive. They have released no expansion or any kind of paid content to get back players and they purely survive on cash shop.

     

    I just wish they were up front and honest about it instead of hiding behind 'simplicity'.

    I think your information is a bit outdated since they announced they will implement a "custom" option that allows the player to specify the amount of gems he wants to buy.

    What does them reversing it have to do with their initial intentions? Perhaps, they realized with the backlash that they would lose more then they would gain. Good on them for changing it. It still doesn't account for their original intentions....

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    Moves like these are made out of necessity. I doubt they did this because Anet hates its playerbase but because they got to make money to survive. They have released no expansion or any kind of paid content to get back players and they purely survive on cash shop.

     

    I just wish they were up front and honest about it instead of hiding behind 'simplicity'.

    I think your information is a bit outdated since they announced they will implement a "custom" option that allows the player to specify the amount of gems he wants to buy.

    What does them reversing it have to do with their initial intentions? Perhaps, they realized with the backlash that they would lose more then they would gain. Good on them for changing it. It still doesn't account for their original intentions....

    Good thing we weren't talking of intentions but necessities.

    The intention might have been (or not) to get more money but was it a survival necessity if they can just revert it?

    The industry is full of examples of companies doing crazy things that will lose them costumers and even close in the long term if the in the short term they get a cash boost.

     

    Despite all the talk (by forum goers) of Anet needing money and "using dirty" tactics, the fact is that the cash shop is tame, 2 years after release.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Kinda annoying, I don't always need gems in multiples of 400. 

    75 gold ain't much though (even though I got 575 gems for that last time but then I kept an eye on the market and bought when the prices are lowest which tend to be at a certain time of day...). It might feel like a lot to new players who want some extra bank slots early.

    But frankly do there are more important things, like giving us a date for an expansion or something. We don't actually need anything you can buy for gems anyways and if I feel I must have some vanity stuff then it is worth a couple of days grinding.

    Most games tend to not let you get item shop stuff at all unless you use real cash so things could be a lot worse.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Kinda annoying, I don't always need gems in multiples of 400. 

    75 gold ain't much though (even though I got 575 gems for that last time but then I kept an eye on the market and bought when the prices are lowest which tend to be at a certain time of day...). It might feel like a lot to new players who want some extra bank slots early.

    But frankly do there are more important things, like giving us a date for an expansion or something. We don't actually need anything you can buy for gems anyways and if I feel I must have some vanity stuff then it is worth a couple of days grinding.

    Most games tend to not let you get item shop stuff at all unless you use real cash so things could be a lot worse.

    It is down to 60g for 400 gems following the news a option to buy custom number of gems will be implemented soon.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • XssivXssiv Member UncommonPosts: 359

    NVM, someone already posted that ANet is reversing this.

  • saurus123saurus123 Member UncommonPosts: 676
    of gem price go up like every holiday event becouse ppl want the skins :D
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

    I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

    Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

    F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

    Maybe now, after the blinders are lifted, we can get the genre to move back to the more economical and fair minded subscription model.

    Oh yeah, renting a game for $200 a year plus DLC xpac for $50/$90 sounds really fair.

    I haven't spent a dime on GW2 since I bought the box. My son has spent $30. Tell me again how renting for 5 times the box price PER YEAR is fair again? Sub for 5 years and spend $1000 on the game. That makes sense. I'm trying really hard to think of a game worth $1000 and I'm coming up with nothing.

    But hey, keep on preaching the hidden grind treadmill of renting your games as if it's superior.

    I'm tired of having to play around the business models. I just want to play the game. Whether or not you spent money in GW2, doesn't change how you still have to play around that fact. The game is different one way vs another. At least in Sub(only)  games, if you spend money, it's because you cheated. That's worth the money to me. Once my play style becomes impacted by monetization, my experience is diminished.

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