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Anyone else think...PFO kinda sucks?

wfsaxtonwfsaxton Member UncommonPosts: 73

IN BEFORE "ITS AN ALPHA AND ALL WILL BE FIXED WHEN IT GOES LIVE!!!111ONEONE"

I won't go into details about the Alpha but...there is NOTHING in the game that impresses me @ all.  The graphics, the net code...nothing.

I mean, I paid $100 to get EE and I don't even think I plan on playing the game when it releases.  That's how bad the Alpha is.

Anyone else think the same?

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Comments

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989

    Sucks? No

     

    But I will always think it is still in alpha/beta and for too over hyped.

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • OhhPaigeyOhhPaigey Member RarePosts: 1,513
    I haven't been able to play it yet, as with a lot of games I'm not paying for anything ahead of time, I'll wait and if it turns out good I'll buy it then lol.
    When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    So let me get this straight. You knew you were investing in a game that was low budget, testing in alpha were many of its features were still being developed, and knew of what they were going for in design of the game (I'd hope considering you paid). 

    It is going to have issues obviously. When you paid into it, you should of paid based off what they said having an understanding of what a lower budget would provide. Early testing in the Alpha faze of a game is usually a horrid idea if your going to make brash judgments about it.  Its rare that any game in a real Alpha ever looks or plays the same as it does come time of beta, particular for a game that is still well into its development phase. What you are doing is the same as seeing a model kit left in pieces unpainted and claiming it doesn't look any good. You obviously have to wait for it to be built and painted before you can actually bash on it, specially since you KNEW you bought something not yet assembled. 

  • wfsaxtonwfsaxton Member UncommonPosts: 73
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    So let me get this straight. You knew you were investing in a game that was low budget, testing in alpha were many of its features were still being developed, and knew of what they were going for in design of the game (I'd hope considering you paid). 

    No, wrong.

    I did not pay $1k for Alpha.  I paid for EE.  No one said EE was going to be Alpha.   EE was marketed as similar to any kind of EE for any kind of game.  You pay more and pay early, you get in before everyone else.  Yes, many features will come later but the BASE of the game should be ready to go.  It's not.

    • They are not going to upgrade the graphics in two weeks (seriously, they look 10 years old)
    • They are not going to fix people rubber-banding/skipping in two weeks (This was in an uncrowded area right when I logged in)
    I mean, for Christ's sake YOU CAN'T EVEN TAB BETWEEN THE LOGIN NAME/PASSWORD IN THE LOGIN SCREEN.  This functionality is so basic!
     
    This is not raging about an unfinished game.  It's raging against the pile of crap the game seems to be heading into EE.
  • SoraksisSoraksis Member UncommonPosts: 294
    I am not even sure what your talking about.  What the hell is EE?  And why would you pay for it if it wasn't finished?
  • CaldicotCaldicot Member UncommonPosts: 450

    Yeah, it's a shame really :/

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    The big question still is: "Is it fun to play?".

    I do believe that most of us knew that the graphics would be rather dated and the game would be bug ridden when we heard about it's low budget. The only 2 low budget games I can think about that differs is Eve and Guildwars, and Eve was really buggy at launch while GW is instanced and also had the luck of having 3 of Blizzards best programmers who lead the game.

    Pathfinder do have at least one guy from CCP but most of the team seems rather inexperienced to me, that together with the budget means that game probably never will be something for people who love high graphics and can't stand bugs.

    However did CCP themselves turn this around because Eve was fun and didn't feel like anything else on the market and if PFO is fun enough it could do the same. If not will the game go down fast.

    I am surprised that Paizo who actually have the top selling pen and paper RPG since a few years back would license it to a small unknown studio with little budget though. Pathfinder is very big in P&P circles and have the potential of getting many P&P players who don't play MMOs into the genre so one would think that finding someone with budget and experience to make the game shouldn't be impossible.

  • Varex12Varex12 Member CommonPosts: 357
    Originally posted by Soraksis
    I am not even sure what your talking about.  What the hell is EE?  And why would you pay for it if it wasn't finished?

    Think he means Early Entrance.  

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,055

    I tried alpha and tbh was quite disappointed, sure there are bug and the like but that is to be expected, it is alpha. Also to be expected is that Early Enrollment is also a ongoing alpha and they never tried to hide this.  BTW EE is like a "head start you get with founder packs " for other games as there will be no wipe unless something major happens.

    The game has potential but it also has some things which I find a big turn off. Some things I do not like:

    ~ ranged attacks are rooted

    ~ no run toggle you need to hold down shift or watnot to "sprint"

    ~ current aggro mechanics result in a leash like behavior

    ~ IA is very very stupid

    ~ missing very basic controls that we tend to take for granted in most mmos (in FS cant alt tab without game crashing and things of this nature)

    ~ crafting is frakking boring and has huge huge craft times

    ~ skills and their progression are not very intuitive

    ~ they way skills and gear works is confusing for newbies. For example you get the skill frost ray but need a wand to actually use it then when you finally get frost ray 2 you think woot damage upgrade but nada because you need a +1 wand to use frost ray 2, the same thing with armor and armor feats/skills etc etc.

    There's a plethora of other things but I don't really feel like writing and essay on it. lol

    I mean the game has some potential unfortunately the people making the game are listening to a select few "heavy weights" in there forums which is leading and will lead to more asinine directions mechanics wise.

    TBH I cannot believe people would pay a sub for this as it is now.


    At this point I can say I like how it has an open world and though the graphics are meh they could be worse and I hear they may upgrade them but only far far down the line.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
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  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905
    Originally posted by Loke666

    The big question still is: "Is it fun to play?".

     

    Sadly, at this point, I would have to say no.

    Also, would have to say that I don't see much, if any, of the spirit of the PF RPG in it's DNA. 

    I took a $35 on this, which I don't regret because I get Kickstarter is always a bit of a gamble and knew that going in, but I am sad to say as it looks right now it isn't something I will be playing.

     

     

     

     

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,055
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Loke666

    The big question still is: "Is it fun to play?".

     

    Sadly, at this point, I would have to say no.

    Also, would have to say that I don't see much, if any, of the spirit of the PF RPG in it's DNA. 

    I took a $35 on this, which I don't regret because I get Kickstarter is always a bit of a gamble and knew that going in, but I am sad to say as it looks right now it isn't something I will be playing.

     

     

     

     

    Agreed do not come to play this if you expect a DnD or pathfinder like game or gameplay.  I would go even further and say the game is frustrating and tedious and I like sandboxes that do not hold your hand.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • CananCanan Member UncommonPosts: 95

    It is people like the OP that make big MMOs have NDAs, seriously. This game is in Alpha, of course it sucks right now, many of it's major features that will define it ARE NOT YET IMPLEMENTED.

    Seriously, have some patients, this is an Indie MMO that has so much potential! Stop trying to give it bad press with your unfounded statements.

     

    Annoying.

  • wfsaxtonwfsaxton Member UncommonPosts: 73
    Originally posted by Canan

    It is people like the OP that make big MMOs have NDAs, seriously. This game is in Alpha, of course it sucks right now, many of it's major features that will define it ARE NOT YET IMPLEMENTED.

    Seriously, have some patients, this is an Indie MMO that has so much potential! Stop trying to give it bad press with your unfounded statements.

     

    Annoying.

    No, wrong.

    I'm not complaining about a game in Alpha.  That's silly.

    I'm complaining about a game that will go live in two weeks with major flaws that will not be fixed by then.

  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,433

    The game is in alpha and you don't like it?   The excuse is "well, it is alpha after all".

     

    I say BS.   I am playing Project Gorgon at the moment and they are in pre-alpha/alpha and the game is amazing.  Tons of skills/crafting.  If you don't like a game in alpha there is a good chance you will not like it in beta and launch.  

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905
    Originally posted by flizzer

    I am playing Project Gorgon at the moment and they are in pre-alpha/alpha and the game is amazing.  Tons of skills/crafting.  If you don't like a game in alpha there is a good chance you will not like it in beta and launch.  

     

    I have to agree, even as a backer of PFO. If PFO was in the state that Gorgon is right now I wouldn't be criticising it at all. Those guys are doing great work.

     

     

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,055
    Originally posted by flizzer

    The game is in alpha and you don't like it?   The excuse is "well, it is alpha after all".

     

    I say BS.   I am playing Project Gorgon at the moment and they are in pre-alpha/alpha and the game is amazing.  Tons of skills/crafting.  If you don't like a game in alpha there is a good chance you will not like it in beta and launch.  

    Hahah it is funny that you post this cause in my last post this is something that crossed my mind, the only thing I think PG could do is maybe make the "world" bigger or persistent like in pfo other than that PG is better hands down.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • CananCanan Member UncommonPosts: 95
    Originally posted by wfsaxton
    Originally posted by Canan

    It is people like the OP that make big MMOs have NDAs, seriously. This game is in Alpha, of course it sucks right now, many of it's major features that will define it ARE NOT YET IMPLEMENTED.

    Seriously, have some patients, this is an Indie MMO that has so much potential! Stop trying to give it bad press with your unfounded statements.

     

    Annoying.

    No, wrong.

    I'm not complaining about a game in Alpha.  That's silly.

    I'm complaining about a game that will go live in two weeks with major flaws that will not be fixed by then.

    No, you're wrong, and so is your information. The game is not going live in 2 weeks, the game isn't scheduled to go live until 2016 if I recall correctly.

    The game is scheduled to go into beta in two weeks. If you're going to actually make a post to trash a game on its own message board, please try and at least tell the truth.

    Seriously, you are the kind of person that turns people away from games by posting propaganda; shame on you.

     

     

     

  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,020
    Originally posted by Canan
    Originally posted by wfsaxton
    Originally posted by Canan

    It is people like the OP that make big MMOs have NDAs, seriously. This game is in Alpha, of course it sucks right now, many of it's major features that will define it ARE NOT YET IMPLEMENTED.

    Seriously, have some patients, this is an Indie MMO that has so much potential! Stop trying to give it bad press with your unfounded statements.

     

    Annoying.

    No, wrong.

    I'm not complaining about a game in Alpha.  That's silly.

    I'm complaining about a game that will go live in two weeks with major flaws that will not be fixed by then.

    No, you're wrong, and so is your information. The game is not going live in 2 weeks, the game isn't scheduled to go live until 2016 if I recall correctly.

    The game is schedules to go into beta in two weeks. If you're going to actually make a post to trash a game on its own message board, please try and at least tell the truth.

    Seriously, you are the kind of person that turns people away from games by posting propaganda; shame on you.

    Once their minimum viable product goes live they wont reset servers and there will be a monthly subscription. Its a launch and not a beta.

    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • CananCanan Member UncommonPosts: 95
    It is a beta, also known as a minimum viable product. The game will not be live.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,055


    Originally posted by Canan It is a beta, also known as a minimum viable product. The game will not be live.

    There's not suppose to be any wipes in EE so though technically yo may be right, in practicality it is live, just a unfinished live.

    In other words sophistry to be able to charge a sub really.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Originally posted by Loke666

    The big question still is: "Is it fun to play?".

    I do believe that most of us knew that the graphics would be rather dated and the game would be bug ridden when we heard about it's low budget. The only 2 low budget games I can think about that differs is Eve and Guildwars, and Eve was really buggy at launch while GW is instanced and also had the luck of having 3 of Blizzards best programmers who lead the game.

    Pathfinder do have at least one guy from CCP but most of the team seems rather inexperienced to me, that together with the budget means that game probably never will be something for people who love high graphics and can't stand bugs.

    However did CCP themselves turn this around because Eve was fun and didn't feel like anything else on the market and if PFO is fun enough it could do the same. If not will the game go down fast.

    I am surprised that Paizo who actually have the top selling pen and paper RPG since a few years back would license it to a small unknown studio with little budget though. Pathfinder is very big in P&P circles and have the potential of getting many P&P players who don't play MMOs into the genre so one would think that finding someone with budget and experience to make the game shouldn't be impossible.

    I imagine there will be parts that are fun:-

    1) Seeing Pathfinder represented in video games is a kind of fun

    2) Some of the systems will glean an idea of the devs intent

    That said for polished exciting fun I'm guessing that's going to take a while longer.

    To put it into perspective funding then developing up to this point has probably had more inherent risk. This part where it meets the audience is also risky, but I think the small size works the numbers back into favor even if the above means a lot of players will delay jumping in, looking for other titles.

    On market data I'm fairly sure GW have good intel on this. They won't get a lot of TT players I'd guess but enough to form a core community at the beginning is perhaps part of the objective along with sandbox, pvp, fantasy-eve and any other player that wants more freedom. Albeit atm the low quality comparatively will cut a huge chunk out of that basis?

    The "jezuz" feature of PFO is as per EVE scaling community. It won't be apparent during EE with low features and small community but if the revenue is sufficiently cash positive to carrying on reinvesting into the game and new features added, it might work out in the end. But sure it was always going to be touch and go for EE day 1.

    Coming back to tech, I hope BigWorld vs Unity did not cause major strategy problems ie the networking code which GW have had to spend a lot of their dev time on (and art assets believe it or not to combine decent quality with high volume of moving "objects" ie players). But actually just as important as the tech is the design which should in part be determined by the tech ie GW can deliver on a truely-MMO aspect (tech) as well a truly-RPG aspect (Design). I think they have the design for RPG nailed if they are able to grow to a sufficient size, but as I've always pointed out the Tech (networking) is the most important other problem to solve. Hence BigWorld vs Unity implications. Luckily Mark Kalmes CTO Goblinworks has solid experience here. I hope it will be adquate.

    Much like EVE I think a lot of the fun will be post-hoc instead of visceral. I guess that will become more apparent this type of game when the game is a lot bigger and therefore this emergence is more apparent. Other games atm however will likely kick the crap out of PFO on being visceral experiences. Either way you take a chance (Monopoly ref!).

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509
    Originally posted by wfsaxton
    Originally posted by Canan

    It is people like the OP that make big MMOs have NDAs, seriously. This game is in Alpha, of course it sucks right now, many of it's major features that will define it ARE NOT YET IMPLEMENTED.

    Seriously, have some patients, this is an Indie MMO that has so much potential! Stop trying to give it bad press with your unfounded statements.

     

    Annoying.

    No, wrong.

    I'm not complaining about a game in Alpha.  That's silly.

    I'm complaining about a game that will go live in two weeks with major flaws that will not be fixed by then.

    You do know that a estimated Beta (Open Enrollment as they call it) is scheduled for early 2016? This game is in a very early development cycle, and it is completely unusual to let players in that early.

    Is it very clever to allow players to buy in that early? I personally don't think so.. if players have to pay they will demand something. Is it clever to charge a subscription as early as PFO will do it? Absolutely not.. with the same reasoning as above.

    I did not play it.. and i will not touch it until open enrollment(beta), when it is more or less feature complete, and the bugs are at a more tolerable level. And i can bet, that there will be bugs early 2016.

    However.. the point is you can't judge a lot about the game at this early state. Combat sucks? Of course it does.. it is not really "finished" implemented. UI/Graphics sucks? Of course.. it isn't refined at any point and is just the first shot to get everything(available) in place.

     

  • JakobmillerJakobmiller Member UncommonPosts: 333
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

     


    Originally posted by Canan It is a beta, also known as a minimum viable product. The game will not be live.

     

    There's not suppose to be any wipes in EE so though technically yo may be right, in practicality it is live, just a unfinished live.

    In other words sophistry to be able to charge a sub really.

    Agreed. I have not taken a bigger look into Pathfinder Online since it does not seem like my type of game. I do know though that if a game goes into beta, without a future wipe, I'd call it a release. Saying "beta" in that case is just a stupid excuse to cover your arse if people want to criticise your game.

    I really hope this pre-purchase, kickstarter crap ends in not too long. It destroys my MMORPG experience and has been for the past few years.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905
    Originally posted by Jakobmiller

    I really hope this pre-purchase, kickstarter crap ends in not too long. It destroys my MMORPG experience and has been for the past few years.

     

    oh, come one... What a ridiculous thing to say. How has Kickstarter even come close to that? And who actually makes you pre-purchase anything? 

     

    Not really talking about MMORPGs, and I know it's fashionable now to hate on Kickstarter these days, but it's been amazing for grassroots development across multiple hobbies and interests and I for one am glad it's there. I am really enjoying Wasteland 2 right now, it's a great game in a genre given up as not profitable enough for the majors. And don't even get me started as a tabletop gamer how good it's been for me.

  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287

    Dear OP,

    you are mistaken on a great many things. From the FAQ:

     

    When is Pathfinder Online coming out?

    We are planning to begin Alpha testing in the 2nd Quarter of 2014.  

    We are planning to begin Early Enrollment in the 3rd Quarter of 2014.

    Open Enrollment is scheduled for early in 2016.

     

    Where on earth you get the idea will launch in 2 weeks is anyone's guess!

    You also seem to be mistaking EE (early enrollment) with the more common 'Early Access' or 'Head start'.

    From the Kickstarter page:

     

    ...an invite to become an Early Enrollee in the Beta...Patrons at this level will be invited to join Early Enrollment in the order that they pledged this level. The first 2,000 will be invited into month number one of Early Enrollment. Once we have reached 2,000 patrons at this level, the next 2,000 will get invites to month two, with the next 2,000 getting invites for month three and so on through the ninth month of Early Enrollment.

     

    So EE IS beta (at best) access.

    You have no grounds for complaint beyond your own inability to read and understand what you are buying.

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