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(NPE) I want to hear a legit reason for: Why I Should Take My Time Leveling?

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Comments

  • ThupliThupli Member RarePosts: 1,295
    I think the intention of the NPE was good, the execution was terrible.

    They needed skippable tutorials, not level gated carrots on a stick.

    I have two toons in the 50's. I have managed to eek fib levels between the two of them. The traits not being open to the second tier until 60 is outrageously boring. To wait until eighty for tier three is plain dumb.

    And my rooms are grandfathered and have free access to all the traits.

    I'm done with this game unless they fix something, and I don't see this with their track record unless I they get rid of mike O'Brian and jon Peters. They need to axe those guys so badly. Completely incompetent.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,878
    Originally posted by Battlerock

    You really shouldn't take your time leveling. All the advantages are in place for max level. Max power, best in slot armor, and all choices are opened up at max level, including but not limited to pve content, character customizations, pvp content.

     

    You should blow right throw the leveling process as fast as possible to get past the gimped version of yourself and right to the main idea of the game. Zip right through it and give yourself the advantage that max level toons have. The content at max level is the only content that matters, the other filler content is a waste of developer resources. The content I see at level 5, 10, ..... up to max I only see once and then I never return. Max level content is at least replayable or should be for that matter.

     

    If you don't just blow through the game and get to max level you may end up like me

    SWTOR - quit after level 27

    Rift - done after level 37

    Wildstar - made it to level 20

    AA - stuck at level 22

    GW2 - can't get past level 27 ...... and so on and so forth

     

    I can't max out a toon because I get burned out doing the boring leveling crap before I reach level cap and the games open up. 

    Now that's interesting because

     

    SWTOR - Maxed about 7 characters because I enjoyed their personal story so much

    Rift - done after level 18 as it reminded me to much of WoW which I had played since launch

    Wildstar - made it to level 6 felt boring

    AA - characters at level 19, 30, and 32,  I only play the loan wolf playstyle here, no farms, little crafting, no homes

    GW2 - have a maxed out character for every profession and still play this game

    I've played a lot of MMO's and never reached max as I play for immediate enjoyment or to experience new content, once that stopped, so did I.  Mostly it's some parts of some games I really like and I stop when I get past those parts.  I also never play one character as I like to try different professions at the same time, so I play one for a few hours or a that day then jump to the next. 

    As for AA, because I like combat and exploring mostly, my labor points stay maxed out, if I could sell them I would.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,878
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
     

    Back then during the Eq2/WoW days, MMOs were new to people, so they didnt know that the Levels were really gating content.

     

    That seems to be a very cynical way of looking at it. When you look at it that way you completely dismiss everything that comes between point A and point B. That's the important stuff.

    It's like people saying that all Lineage 2 was about was grinding but completely dismissing everythign that happened before, during and after "grinding". Those were the actual "game parts".

    People power leveled so they could get more "powerful" as "being more powerful" gave advantages. In pvp, in pve.

    I also imagine that some people used the idea of being more powerful to bolster their image in the eyes of other players.

     

    One thing I like about games like GW2 is how your level is adjusted based on the zone you're in, so your character can always go back and play the stuff you've missed or play every starting zone if you wish and still get some drops around your real level.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • AbaxialAbaxial Member UncommonPosts: 140
    Levelling should be fun - gradually exploring the world, finding new places, developing new skills. I still rememberr the thrill in playing WoW for the first time and getting strong enough to enter a new region. If you could go everywhere from the start, there would be much less of a sense of accomplishment.
  • AbaxialAbaxial Member UncommonPosts: 140
    Originally posted by Octagon7711

    One thing I like about games like GW2 is how your level is adjusted based on the zone you're in, so your character can always go back and play the stuff you've missed or play every starting zone if you wish and still get some drops around your real level.

    Agreed. One of the great things about GW2 is that the designers actually thought about things instead of just implementing the same old stuff by rote.

  • JakobmillerJakobmiller Member UncommonPosts: 333
    I kind of miss the idea that NCSoft brought with the original Guild Wars. Leveling was pretty much none existent with their 20 levels, but to progress, you had to do quests to get abilities and to farm items to unlock and purchase equipment. For every area it required that you had to rework your character setup and builds in order to succeed with that particular area. Great game!
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,309


    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    You misunderstand what i was trying to say.  Maybe i shouldnt of said "game" and should of said "genre".What has happened to the MMORPG genre is the equivalent of a bunch of people seeing a formula 1 race, thinking its cool, wanting to get into it, getting into it, but then complaining that the cars only seat 1 person, and they should really seat 4, and that the cars are too hot and noisy, so they need air conditioning, and sound deadening.  Oh, the cars are also uncomfortable rides, its too stiff, so we should soften up the suspension so its more comfortable.Now, you have a bunch of minivans racing around a track.  Its no longer formula 1.That was my point.
    So, the casuals ruined YOUR genre.

    Crotchety old man - "dang kids and their fast leveling, wreckin' MY MMOs"


    The players did not change MMOs from Formula 1 cars to minivans, the developers did that to meet the evolving tastes of the players.

    What the players like today are not the same things they liked back in 2009. What they liked in 2009 is not the same thing they liked in 2004 and what they liked 2004 is not what they liked in 1999.


    Sorry, but the bitter veterans are not in the driver's seat.

  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    It's like people saying that all Lineage 2 was about was grinding but completely dismissing everythign that happened before, during and after "grinding". Those were the actual "game parts".

    If those were the actual "game parts" then what was the point of grind? Which btw in L2 took the majority of someone's playtime and was boring as hell. 

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,304
    I don't really enjoy a rush to max level.  For one, there are usually guides that tell you the fastest way to level, and more often than not, they skip large sections of content to do it.  I prefer going through all the content and seeing what's there.  In addition, I don't like to feel rushed and play 300 hours worth of content in a 48 hour playing spree.  A couple hours here, a couple hours there and I'm happy.  Don't know if you would consider this a legit reason, but it works.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    You misunderstand what i was trying to say.  Maybe i shouldnt of said "game" and should of said "genre".

     

    What has happened to the MMORPG genre is the equivalent of a bunch of people seeing a formula 1 race, thinking its cool, wanting to get into it, getting into it, but then complaining that the cars only seat 1 person, and they should really seat 4, and that the cars are too hot and noisy, so they need air conditioning, and sound deadening.  Oh, the cars are also uncomfortable rides, its too stiff, so we should soften up the suspension so its more comfortable.

    Now, you have a bunch of minivans racing around a track.  Its no longer formula 1.

    That was my point.


    So, the casuals ruined YOUR genre.

     

    Crotchety old man - "dang kids and their fast leveling, wreckin' MY MMOs"


    The players did not change MMOs from Formula 1 cars to minivans, the developers did that to meet the evolving tastes of the players.

    What the players like today are not the same things they liked back in 2009. What they liked in 2009 is not the same thing they liked in 2004 and what they liked 2004 is not what they liked in 1999.


    Sorry, but the bitter veterans are not in the driver's seat.

    Pretty much. And what is wrong with minvans if that is what the market wants?

     

  • Dexter2010Dexter2010 Member UncommonPosts: 244
    They just want to extend your sub for 4 months to gain 10 levels.
  • krondinkrondin Member UncommonPosts: 106

    Leveling from lvl 1 up is a MMO design for socialization, or at least it was originally < MMO = Massisive MULTIPLAYER Online > If all you desire is the End game because you believe it is the only fun, then you should play a RPG, not a MMO.

     

    You can get socialization from end game only now , however, there is virtually no personal connection, or shall i dare say, Emotional Attachment!, to your characters in a virtual fantasy or sci fy world. Tis why originally MMO's were designed with play for groups from shortly after lvl 1 and up. Socialization!

     

    Socialization and Emotional, personal attachment to your Avatars < Characters > IS the reason for lvl'ing from lvl 1 up to max.

     

    There is no pride or feeling of achievement / accomplishment , with starting a character at max lvl . < Or rushing to get there >

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    This logic doesnt make sense to me. Somebody here, give me a legit logical reason for why I should take my time leveling, when levels only limit my fun in the first place.

    Tbh I'm surprised you're still playing this game, considering how often you've bashed it over the past few years.

    That said, you don't need to take your time if you don't want to. However, by rushing through the game (and this applies to ANY game) you are making a personal choice to skip ~90% of the game's content in order to rush straight to the last ~10%.

    If that is what you enjoy, then that's fine. However it also makes it hypocritical to then turn around and complain that the game doesn't have enough things to do. Because you've elected to skip most of what it has to offer going in. It would be like going to a supermarket and choosing to only buy what's at the checkout line, and then complaining that there isn't enough food to buy.

    The ironic thing is, most of us only do this w/ MMO (or games we percieve to be MMOs). Perhaps this is a biproduct of so many games with crap quest HUBs, who knows. But GW2 isn't one of those games. It's filled with not only a variety of some well written lore / dialogue / events. It's also full of choice. It's a game that rewards players who stop and smell the roses, over those who try and see how fast they can get 80. So many aspects of the game involve going out into the world and exploring, that there are multiple websites devoted to just that aspect of the game.

    With the NPE of GW2, there's been a ton of mixed feelings (my own included on this). In some ways it's slower, but in others the old powerlvling methods are mostly there. By lvl 30 you can freely do any method to powerlvl your character that you could do before. 1-20 are definitely slower, but here's the loop-hole. ALL veterans to this game (which should include you, OP) have been getting insta-lvl 20 experience scrolls to use. So veterans can effectively skip most of the barriers given to new players. And indeed new players (once they start doing lvl 80 content) will start getting these scrolls themselves.

    The only thing NPE really effects is streamlining the learning experience for new players. Which, in itself is not a bad thing. So many players are clueless on how to play this game, that I'm happy they are trying to improve on that aspect of the game. So many new players jump into harder  / endgame content, get one shotted; then just call BS and assume the game is broken. When all they had to do was watch for the telegraphed animations and dodge, or pop stability, or blind, or block, or pop invuln, etc. etc. etc.

    - There's an aspect of gaming that has largely been lost on newer games. That's the design of progressive learning. I.E. games like mega man, zelda, and metroid had this. It's the idea that when you acquire new skills / mechanics / tools, you are forced to learn how to use them, and how to apply them to a variety of information. NPE is definitely not without it's flaws, but it's a step towards this kind of design.

    Furthermore, they've been consistantly adding new events & changing old ones. Adding in easter eggs into the game. Things you will absolutely, 100% miss out on if you don't stop to look around.

    tldr; Again, it's your personal choice to skip the majority of the game. That's perfectly fine. However, it is then hypocritical to blame others for not giving you enough content in the game. Since you've chosen to skip the bulk of it.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Dexter2010
    They just want to extend your sub for 4 months to gain 10 levels.

    You sure you're in the right thread sir? This game has never had a sub.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by krondin

    Leveling from lvl 1 up is a MMO design for socialization, or at least it was originally < MMO = Massisive MULTIPLAYER Online > If all you desire is the End game because you believe it is the only fun, then you should play a RPG, not a MMO.

     

    what are you talking about?

    Leveling is in single player RPGs way BEFORE MMO even existed. It is definitely NOT for socialization. I level in many single player RPGs, and I did not socialize even for a single second.

     

  • MsPtibiscuitMsPtibiscuit Member Posts: 164

    I liked levelling

    Then levelling became solo-oriented, and endgame became group-oriented

    I now like endgame

  • Dexter2010Dexter2010 Member UncommonPosts: 244
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Dexter2010
    They just want to extend your sub for 4 months to gain 10 levels.

    You sure you're in the right thread sir? This game has never had a sub.

    The question was about leveling slowly in general.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    You misunderstand what i was trying to say.  Maybe i shouldnt of said "game" and should of said "genre".

     

    What has happened to the MMORPG genre is the equivalent of a bunch of people seeing a formula 1 race, thinking its cool, wanting to get into it, getting into it, but then complaining that the cars only seat 1 person, and they should really seat 4, and that the cars are too hot and noisy, so they need air conditioning, and sound deadening.  Oh, the cars are also uncomfortable rides, its too stiff, so we should soften up the suspension so its more comfortable.

    Now, you have a bunch of minivans racing around a track.  Its no longer formula 1.

    That was my point.

     


    So, the casuals ruined YOUR genre.

     

    Crotchety old man - "dang kids and their fast leveling, wreckin' MY MMOs"


    The players did not change MMOs from Formula 1 cars to minivans, the developers did that to meet the evolving tastes of the players.

    What the players like today are not the same things they liked back in 2009. What they liked in 2009 is not the same thing they liked in 2004 and what they liked 2004 is not what they liked in 1999.


    Sorry, but the bitter veterans are not in the driver's seat.

    Wow, nice smarmy response there buddy.

    I never said it was "MY" genre, i said they ruined THE genre.  And yes, they ruined it.  The last dozen MMO releases have been evidence enough of that.  And btw, im only 31, so, yeah, on the crotchety old man part i guess /shrug.

    You're putting the chicken before the egg.  You're trying to say the developers changed to meet the evolving tastes of players.  Thats not true.  The people who played MMOs in the early days are maybe 1/20th of the people who play MMO's now.  What you're saying is like trying to say that a bunch of american football enthusiasts decided they wanted to play soccer, and that because of that, FIFA and all the soccer regulation people changed soccer to be more like american football to "meet the needs of the evolving players".

    What happened was this:

    1. Genre comes out that was created for a certain group of players, by developers who were also into said genre.

    2. Blizzard comes along and (like smart BUSINESS men), sees the potential for growth in said genre, and makes the game easier to learn, play, etc, i.e. more casual, which helps draw in new players.

    3. WOW releases, does well by current standards, but doesn't explode in population until more than a year after its release.

    4. Popular society decides that now, MMO's are cool.  This causes a game which had 1-1.5 million players roughly a year after release, to jump to 6 million players within a span of 6 months.

    5. Those extra 4.5 million people that came into WOW at that time frame WERE NOT MMO GAMERS.  They were people who played many other genres who were lured into this because it was "the new thing".

    6. This is the start of the genre going to crap.  Those people now complained about things that were part and parcel of the genre, like having to level, gated content, things taking time to do (travel, etc).  These people were used to single player games where they got to be captain awesome in the game, they didnt have to rely on other people for other things, they wanted to be the special snowflake, not a wheel in the cog.

    7. Because there was so much money in the genre, money developers weren't willing to give up, the developer had the choice of A. Keep the game as is, and risk losing the players after said players realized that maybe the game wasn't exactly what they thought or wanted.  OR  B. Change the game to meet the needs of those new players and keep them around.

     

    This is the story of how X turned into Y and how what was probably the most promising genre in the history of gaming, was turned into a massive pile of crap.

     

    It literally boggles my mind that developers sit around in groups at tables and have meetings where they are confused that people aren't staying around in MMO's.  They basically turned MMO's into glorified single player RPG's, and then they're confused when people PLAY them like single player rpg's?  (i.e. play through the story once or twice, maybe try a couple different classes, but ultimately you stop playing it and move on to the next game).

     

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408

    There are so many powers, abilities and techniques at maximum level, it could be difficult to negotiate an encounter efficiently.  I found this is especially true for games like CoH or SWG; there are so many abilities from which to choose from, it could be overwhelming if you didn't start simple early on.

     

    Levelling allows you to pick up abilities gradually, so you can familiarize yourself with them gradually, before picking up a new ability.  Because the entire process of playing can get rather complicated, if you are just given everything up front and are asked to "make it work" somehow.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • itchmonitchmon Member UncommonPosts: 1,953

    if you like to level slow then you should level slow.  if you like to speed level then you should speed level.  the only thing is that you will burnout on a game faster if you speed level, because it takes time to develop a connection to the game you're playing.

     

    i like eve specifically because you can't speed level.  not coincidentally it's the game i feel the most emotional connection with.  I have been with my character for a long time (since jan, 2007) aNd there are dozens of skills he still doesn't even have at one dot.  i feel that these two things (feeling connected with character; spending time with character) are quite closely related.

     

    but again that's me.  there is no "legit" reason to play a game the way you don't wanna play it; i'm just trying to point out why you might wanna try it the other way.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,324

    I always hated the concept of maxlevel and endgame.

    There shouldnt be any such thing as a maxlevel.

    For example, there could be different levels of the game. As in real levels, i.e. a world to explore. You would have to finish enough content of one level to progress to the next. And once you crossed over into a new level, you would be able to learn new abilities. This is easily explainable ingame too - magic is stronger on higher levels, thus more powers are available to you. However, if you return into the previous levels, you lose any abilities that you gained in the levels afterwards, and your interface would also be reset to the state it was when you entered this level the last time. Items you would carry would lose part of their power, too.

    Such a system would also make it easy that content stays enjoyable. One could easily help newbies leveling, and your own power wouldnt be too far ahead of them, so there would still be enough challenge.

     

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,999
    Originally posted by itchmon

    if you like to level slow then you should level slow.  if you like to speed level then you should speed level.  the only thing is that you will burnout on a game faster if you speed level, because it takes time to develop a connection to the game you're playing.

     

    i like eve specifically because you can't speed level.  not coincidentally it's the game i feel the most emotional connection with.  I have been with my character for a long time (since jan, 2007) aNd there are dozens of skills he still doesn't even have at one dot.  i feel that these two things (feeling connected with character; spending time with character) are quite closely related.

     

    but again that's me.  there is no "legit" reason to play a game the way you don't wanna play it; i'm just trying to point out why you might wanna try it the other way.

    WoW proved this wrong. In Vanilla WoW/TBC, most people wasnt making past leveling 20.

     

    Slower the level (when levels are meaningful as in gated content level based MMO) people tend to leave if they dont like the grind to unlock features to make the game fun.

    In Fast Leveling, the player is leveling fast to unlock the content. But the content is not interesting enough to stand on its own. So the game flops. We saw this with SWTOR and Warhammer, where the gameplay was gated but still not interesting.

    image

  • itchmonitchmon Member UncommonPosts: 1,953
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by itchmon

    if you like to level slow then you should level slow.  if you like to speed level then you should speed level.  the only thing is that you will burnout on a game faster if you speed level, because it takes time to develop a connection to the game you're playing.

     

    i like eve specifically because you can't speed level.  not coincidentally it's the game i feel the most emotional connection with.  I have been with my character for a long time (since jan, 2007) aNd there are dozens of skills he still doesn't even have at one dot.  i feel that these two things (feeling connected with character; spending time with character) are quite closely related.

     

    but again that's me.  there is no "legit" reason to play a game the way you don't wanna play it; i'm just trying to point out why you might wanna try it the other way.

    WoW proved this wrong. In Vanilla WoW/TBC, most people wasnt making past leveling 20.

     

    Slower the level (when levels are meaningful as in gated content level based MMO) people tend to leave if they dont like the grind to unlock features to make the game fun.

    In Fast Leveling, the player is leveling fast to unlock the content. But the content is not interesting enough to stand on its own. So the game flops. We saw this with SWTOR and Warhammer, where the gameplay was gated but still not interesting.

    seems a tad anecdotal to me.

    so was my post, but i did say a couple times it's just my opinion.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

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