I would have to say Escort are the worst in my mind ... More so the ones that go .. "We must hurry .. Time is short" ... .. and they .. WALK... Really??? You are pushing me out the door and you're going to WALK !!!
I don't mind the warehouse dude saying he has a problem with rats in the warehouse or the sewer dude saying there's a problem with skaven in the sewers or the tailor dude saying he needs wolf pelts - because they are all telling the story of the world itself - it's having to kill an exact number and then it's done and gone.
Instead make it so the warehouse/sewer/tailor dude say "i'll give you x for each rat tail/skaven necklace/wolf pelt you bring me" then you could kill 3 or 7 or 22 or however many you felt like until you got bored and then maybe come back and do some more another day.
Quoting myself to add the same idea could be applied to "collect x number of y" quests. If the game has a village whose economy is based on collecting a certain type of mushroom from a nearby swamp then having a "quest" (task) to collect mushrooms from the swamp tells the story of the world but there's no reason why it would be one off and no reason exactly x number. Make it so they give a reward per mushroom up to a certain number per day. Then to make it interesting put some hazards in the swamp like higher level (than the level of players generally doing the task) wandering aggro giant wasps and randomly activating patches of quick sand that root you for 30 seconds so instead of collecting mushrooms the task becomes collecting mushrooms while trying to avoid dying from the quicksand and wasps.
Avoiding higher level mobs while trying to complete a task can be as fun as fighting them.
Originally posted by Po_gg "... what are some of your least favorite types of MMO quests?"
Originally posted by kulhat
Worst quest is a bugged quest!! :P
This
"Alternatively, which games do you think have some of the best quest to offer?" TSW's quest mechanic is great. Also FC, AoC has some fun ones too (love the theology dispute in Tarantia)
Best quests as in writing, I'd say LotRO has my favourite ones. Narmeleth's story is still leaving me speechless after ever time I play it through...
Yes, good story quests are fine and a lot of the main chain in Lotro are good. I think the problem is games trying to make "work" tasks into "story" quests. It would be better imo if they divided the tasks into two groups and focus on the story part of the story quests and make the work quests interesting with the mechanics of it.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by gurosan i actually enjoy escort quests...
lol, I do to, when done correctly.
Guild Wars 2 does them well. What doesn't work with them is when you have a dumb npc that walks right into mobs and you are already taking on x amount of them and now you have more mobs than you can handle and the npc dies.
Also, group quests aren't bad. Having "one" group quest in a chain of solo quests is bad. There should be separate group quests and separate solo quests.
"kill x" quests are dumb because you are sent to help, you kill 10 of something and there are still 20 there.
Quite frankly at that point I'd rather grind mobs.
I hate npc's sending you to speak to other npc's. A lot of this in asian games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Group quests don't belong on the list imho. The rest of the list I certainly understand.
Others that might have been missed...
1). Go buy x from the item shop. Aka the "did u know we have an item shop??? Well we do!" Quest.
2) the get me x item from the auction house then hand it to me quest. (Eve players ya feel me)
3) the quest that can only be completed at a very certain time (eq1 original epic quests often had this "build your life around me" feature.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
The article misses the academic point, which is that all these quests are found in single player RPGs, even the group quest (although in that case it is with a group of NPCs as opposed to players). What makes people hate the quests is not the activity, but the verbose or story deprived way in which they are delivered. Instead of acting as a challenge to seeing the next story segment in a well paced product, they inevitably lead into more quests.
Group quests can be an annoyance when no one is around to do them, but what this article should have been about is whether it is possible for MMORPGs to create a well paced storytelling experience without falling into the typical pitfalls of narrative bloat and verbosity.
It is funny you posting this on MMORPG.com and not understanding the difference between an MMO and a Single player game.. You really do not want to do group quests? Maybe an MMO is not for you. I seriously do not understand this at all...
(not trying to flame but, like i said, i do not understand this)
I hate the go to point A then point Z then A then point W quest lines where you simple are running back and forth to the same places each at the opposite ends of the zone.
I also hate quests along roads that go out of their way to zigzag you because they want to slow you down.
My latest dislike of pve zone quests in Archeage that has 2 hours of peace time every real 24 hours and it's the only available quests at that level.
That said there are quests that I really love and often go back to from time to time simply because I enjoy doing them so much. GW2 has a lot of quests like that. Being able to slay dragons by checking your timers logging in and fighting, no putting together raid groups which can sometimes take hours.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Tibia quests are the best i ever did in a MMO. No meaningless bullshit like those of 'modern' mmos. This list covers ALL quests from almost every mmo out there.
Quests are meaningless when they achieve/change nothing....
I pretty much dislike most of the modern 'quest grind', I wish more MMO's moved away from it.
That's not to say some questing can't be fun. Believe me or not I actually like the questing system in RuneScape vastly more than any of the quest hub grinders. Most modern quests are hardly worthy of being called a quest, they are boring, repetitive and generic filler content developed by people without much creativity.
A small honourable mention goes to GW2 in this area, they are one of the few recent MMO titles to have actually tried something different here. For all other titles: Either you do it right, or don't do it at all, I know absolutely no one looking forward to yet another quest hub grinder.
Hell, even World of Warcraft is slowly moving away from 100% quest dependency for levelling and daily content, and that is the game that made quest hub grinding the standard in MMO's.
I'd like to see a MMORPG actually give you a quest without the instructions.
-----
Example:
The Quest: "The Goblins are planning an attack on the village. Stop them."
That's everything you have. Now you can seek out the Goblin village and kill all the Goblins. Or you ask around town where the Goblin village even is. Or you ask around town what their plans are. Or you steal their plans.
-----
Although not an MMO, The Witcher 3 is going to include missions of this nature, wherein Geralt will be told to hunt particular monsters, without any or little information given on the monster or its location. Geralt can learn about the nature of the monster by tracking it, and use any knowledge he learns about the creature to his advantage in combat.
In other words the most common quests to be found in practically every themepark out there are the worst types of quest. And group quests? Seriously? When did you start playing MMO's? Let me guess, it was WoW wasn't it? God forbid that in a Massively Multiplayer game you should have to actually group up with people. I mean, who the hell do these developers think they are? Forcing me to group up in a multiplayer game? No no no, I want to solo everything!
When I see featured writers posting shit like this I realise it's no wonder the genre is going down the toilet.
I strongly disagree with a kill x quests. In a leveling point of view they are THE best of the best. They are easy, mobs give xp, quest give xp. They maybe not entertaining but from only leveling look they are awesome.
I've always liked the group quests because they might actually present a challenge to a solo player. Also, I think my favorite quests were the Heritage quests from EQ2. It was fun to find a broken artifact then spend the time investigating it's history while rebuilding it so you could use it yourself.
The worst type of quest is one that gives gratuitous rewards for doing something that you would likely have done anyways; or one that requires scant thought. Modern MMOs are full of these, which is why I haven't played in years.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I can't stand puzzle quests. They're rarely intuitive and end up annoying me. They are not fun and I always go to a website to look up the answer. (I'm looking at you The Secret World)
Hah. I'm not sure the Author actually likes MMOs. All missions and quests can be great if they are constructed well. Just because it's a "Type" of quest doesn't mean it's bad. The issues are reward and immersion. Nowadays there are so many quests they don't feel "Quest Like" except for maybe ESO. For instance:
5. Escort Quests: These can be immensely fun. Barebones, you just have to be near an NPC and walk with them from Point A to Point B. A lot of games stop there. Maybe there are things to fight along the way, maybe there aren't. A good escort quest would show you that the NPC actually NEEDS you. Immersion is a big factor...maybe they have to send supplies from a main city to a small town they've lost contact with. The first half of the trip seems mundane, but eventually skeletons/zombies start climbing out of the ground. The closer you get to the town the more that rise up until you're fighting non-stop until you reach the town. The better you do, the more supplise are left...the better reward you get.
4. Group Quests are the most important part of an MMO. So simply...if you don't like them then play a game where you don't need them. Nowadays, most MMOs don't require you to group at all... wish granted to all the non-MMO players. The only reason why there are "not enough players online" to group is because people don't need to. Create a need to group and people will group. If the rewards aren't worth it and you need to group, people will leave. So you need adequate reward for grouping. Or join a guild and you'll have no problems.
3. This should be a choice. In ESO there are tons of NPCs you can talk to. I talk to so many NPCs that I don't even need to just because they usually have interesting/immersive things to say. Other than that, take tip from a novelist and "Show don't Tell". Poor artistry is telling people what to do. Good artistry is showing people what to do through your presentation.
2 and 1 are both pretty much the same issues as with 5. There needs to be an adequate reward in an immersive environment that offers fun gameplay. Simply because MMORPGs are about playing a role and if you want an immersive experience you'll have to adequately simulate certain aspects of reality. Picking up things, talking to people, joining people, escorting people. If you map out the most fun experience you've ever had, I'm sure you can dumb everything you did down just as much as the author.
"If a quest says Kill 10 dudes. People will say it's boring themepark garbage.
But if Dragonage Origins says, "Fend off the attack!" and throws enemies at you until the attack ends, you likely did not pay attention that you just did a Kill 15 dudes quest, because that's what it is.
Or in Skyrim where you have to go get Item X from some outpost. The quest doesn't say, "Kill 20 dudes in the outpost." But once you get there, you will kill all the dudes in the outpost (all 20 of them) in order to get the item.
How horrible are fedex/talk to so and so quests? Pretty horrible right? Now go play The Witcher (either one). Yeah, nearly everything you do in that game is a fedex/talk to so and so quest. It's obscene. Yet, look at the rave reviews. That's the power of well written dialogue and narrative. "
I totally agree with this one.. How the story unfolds with the quest objective makes a huge difference in how it is received by many players.. I love story line so kill x is awful..but dressed up in a "defend the city" as you say would make it more exciting b.c it means something..
There are better ways to implement quests / missions. I prefer the setup that SWG and Anarchy Online had where every mission was for the most part, random. Granted, those two games are now ancient and graphically inferior, their gameplay rivals even some of the most modern MMO's today.
Randomly generated quests are great.
You can choose to do only the quests that fit your character's skillset or moral code
The game can let you fail a quest permanently, no second chance
Because you'll never run out of randomly generated quests!
My favorite RPGs like Mount & Blade relied on randomly generated quests. Wish the MMOs I see worked more like that.
Comments
Quoting myself to add the same idea could be applied to "collect x number of y" quests. If the game has a village whose economy is based on collecting a certain type of mushroom from a nearby swamp then having a "quest" (task) to collect mushrooms from the swamp tells the story of the world but there's no reason why it would be one off and no reason exactly x number. Make it so they give a reward per mushroom up to a certain number per day. Then to make it interesting put some hazards in the swamp like higher level (than the level of players generally doing the task) wandering aggro giant wasps and randomly activating patches of quick sand that root you for 30 seconds so instead of collecting mushrooms the task becomes collecting mushrooms while trying to avoid dying from the quicksand and wasps.
Avoiding higher level mobs while trying to complete a task can be as fun as fighting them.
Yes, good story quests are fine and a lot of the main chain in Lotro are good. I think the problem is games trying to make "work" tasks into "story" quests. It would be better imo if they divided the tasks into two groups and focus on the story part of the story quests and make the work quests interesting with the mechanics of it.
The worst quest type is the one that is most prevalent in the particular game you are playing (out of the 5 you mentioned).
The best quests come from The Secret World....it's not even close...
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
lol, I do to, when done correctly.
Guild Wars 2 does them well. What doesn't work with them is when you have a dumb npc that walks right into mobs and you are already taking on x amount of them and now you have more mobs than you can handle and the npc dies.
Also, group quests aren't bad. Having "one" group quest in a chain of solo quests is bad. There should be separate group quests and separate solo quests.
"kill x" quests are dumb because you are sent to help, you kill 10 of something and there are still 20 there.
Quite frankly at that point I'd rather grind mobs.
I hate npc's sending you to speak to other npc's. A lot of this in asian games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Others that might have been missed...
1). Go buy x from the item shop. Aka the "did u know we have an item shop??? Well we do!" Quest.
2) the get me x item from the auction house then hand it to me quest. (Eve players ya feel me)
3) the quest that can only be completed at a very certain time (eq1 original epic quests often had this "build your life around me" feature.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
The article misses the academic point, which is that all these quests are found in single player RPGs, even the group quest (although in that case it is with a group of NPCs as opposed to players). What makes people hate the quests is not the activity, but the verbose or story deprived way in which they are delivered. Instead of acting as a challenge to seeing the next story segment in a well paced product, they inevitably lead into more quests.
Group quests can be an annoyance when no one is around to do them, but what this article should have been about is whether it is possible for MMORPGs to create a well paced storytelling experience without falling into the typical pitfalls of narrative bloat and verbosity.
It is funny you posting this on MMORPG.com and not understanding the difference between an MMO and a Single player game.. You really do not want to do group quests? Maybe an MMO is not for you. I seriously do not understand this at all...
(not trying to flame but, like i said, i do not understand this)
I hate the go to point A then point Z then A then point W quest lines where you simple are running back and forth to the same places each at the opposite ends of the zone.
I also hate quests along roads that go out of their way to zigzag you because they want to slow you down.
My latest dislike of pve zone quests in Archeage that has 2 hours of peace time every real 24 hours and it's the only available quests at that level.
That said there are quests that I really love and often go back to from time to time simply because I enjoy doing them so much. GW2 has a lot of quests like that. Being able to slay dragons by checking your timers logging in and fighting, no putting together raid groups which can sometimes take hours.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Tibia quests are the best i ever did in a MMO. No meaningless bullshit like those of 'modern' mmos. This list covers ALL quests from almost every mmo out there.
Quests are meaningless when they achieve/change nothing....
I pretty much dislike most of the modern 'quest grind', I wish more MMO's moved away from it.
That's not to say some questing can't be fun. Believe me or not I actually like the questing system in RuneScape vastly more than any of the quest hub grinders. Most modern quests are hardly worthy of being called a quest, they are boring, repetitive and generic filler content developed by people without much creativity.
A small honourable mention goes to GW2 in this area, they are one of the few recent MMO titles to have actually tried something different here. For all other titles: Either you do it right, or don't do it at all, I know absolutely no one looking forward to yet another quest hub grinder.
Hell, even World of Warcraft is slowly moving away from 100% quest dependency for levelling and daily content, and that is the game that made quest hub grinding the standard in MMO's.
In other words the most common quests to be found in practically every themepark out there are the worst types of quest. And group quests? Seriously? When did you start playing MMO's? Let me guess, it was WoW wasn't it? God forbid that in a Massively Multiplayer game you should have to actually group up with people. I mean, who the hell do these developers think they are? Forcing me to group up in a multiplayer game? No no no, I want to solo everything!
When I see featured writers posting shit like this I realise it's no wonder the genre is going down the toilet.
The worst type of quest is one that gives gratuitous rewards for doing something that you would likely have done anyways; or one that requires scant thought. Modern MMOs are full of these, which is why I haven't played in years.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
So basically every quest is terrible?
Hah. I'm not sure the Author actually likes MMOs. All missions and quests can be great if they are constructed well. Just because it's a "Type" of quest doesn't mean it's bad. The issues are reward and immersion. Nowadays there are so many quests they don't feel "Quest Like" except for maybe ESO. For instance:
5. Escort Quests: These can be immensely fun. Barebones, you just have to be near an NPC and walk with them from Point A to Point B. A lot of games stop there. Maybe there are things to fight along the way, maybe there aren't. A good escort quest would show you that the NPC actually NEEDS you. Immersion is a big factor...maybe they have to send supplies from a main city to a small town they've lost contact with. The first half of the trip seems mundane, but eventually skeletons/zombies start climbing out of the ground. The closer you get to the town the more that rise up until you're fighting non-stop until you reach the town. The better you do, the more supplise are left...the better reward you get.
4. Group Quests are the most important part of an MMO. So simply...if you don't like them then play a game where you don't need them. Nowadays, most MMOs don't require you to group at all... wish granted to all the non-MMO players. The only reason why there are "not enough players online" to group is because people don't need to. Create a need to group and people will group. If the rewards aren't worth it and you need to group, people will leave. So you need adequate reward for grouping. Or join a guild and you'll have no problems.
3. This should be a choice. In ESO there are tons of NPCs you can talk to. I talk to so many NPCs that I don't even need to just because they usually have interesting/immersive things to say. Other than that, take tip from a novelist and "Show don't Tell". Poor artistry is telling people what to do. Good artistry is showing people what to do through your presentation.
2 and 1 are both pretty much the same issues as with 5. There needs to be an adequate reward in an immersive environment that offers fun gameplay. Simply because MMORPGs are about playing a role and if you want an immersive experience you'll have to adequately simulate certain aspects of reality. Picking up things, talking to people, joining people, escorting people. If you map out the most fun experience you've ever had, I'm sure you can dumb everything you did down just as much as the author.
I got your Deliverance!
Where's my banjo?!!
I totally agree with this one.. How the story unfolds with the quest objective makes a huge difference in how it is received by many players.. I love story line so kill x is awful..but dressed up in a "defend the city" as you say would make it more exciting b.c it means something..
He ends it with... " do you see the problem here?"
yes. But I don't see the solution here.
Maybe we could get somewhere if we stopped bitching about the problems and started proposing some solutions.
Randomly generated quests are great.