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Star Citizen or Elite: Dangerous?

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  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    Well both SC and Elite are not true mmos.. they are multiplayer games tho..

    I will be playing both as I ahve backed both..

    HAve played the arena commander thing for SC and its not that good but it is only the first alpha release for it..

    Did not back Elite enough to get into game now but the videos i have seen make it look bloody good..

     

    In short I cant wait for both games to be finished :)

     

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,032
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Well both SC and Elite are not true mmos.. they are multiplayer games tho.. 

    I don't get this. Persistent worlds with thousands of players aren't true MMOs unless you can have thousands on-screen?

    Favorites: EQEVETOR | Playing: No MMOs since 2014. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • QuesaQuesa Member UncommonPosts: 1,432
    Originally posted by Saerain
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Well both SC and Elite are not true mmos.. they are multiplayer games tho.. 

    I don't get this. Persistent worlds with thousands of players aren't true MMOs unless you can have thousands on-screen?

    Because you can't really be considered an MMO if you are able to completely cut off all interaction between you and other players.  I haven't read much about how SC handles this but Elite allows you to basically play this as a strait single player game or host a game for a few of your friends.  It does allow you to 'toggle' the ability to have player-player interactions which is why most people consider it a single player space sim with multiplayer capabilities.

    Having a persistent world doesn't mean anything when it comes to defining an MMO.

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-DPBM-Z2P4
  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509

    First of all, my answer to the OP question is both. And every single Space Sim fan should go that way.

    Both developers have proved with their previous games, what space sims are about, those two developers laid out the foundation of space sims, with games like Elite 1-3, Wing Commander, Privateer..

    So, i am very happy that we get a new game from both of them, and i will happily awaiting them.

    Now to a few comments:

    First of all a few fanatics(on both sides of the fence) do have a somewhat exaggerated expectation what both can really deliver and what is even technically possible. I just advice calm down a bit, look what they are really offer, what they are really promise and don't interpret it, or let your dreams fill up the voids.. you will just end badly disappointed. Some things are just technically impossible, or extremely hard to do, and there are still limits.

    Now to a few specific comments:

    Originally posted by arieste

    Would anyone that's following both games care to give their opinion on which you think will have better PvE aspect?    

    As much as these games will obvoiusly have PvP, i'm pretty much a PvE-only player and the one thing that I always felt was lacklustre in EVE was good PvE.   I am not talking necessarily about just having single-player campaign playthrough (sounds like SC has this), but long term and meaningful co-operative PvE.  

    Just looking for opinions, not links to stuff, i'm reading up as is.

    Hmm.. i really don't know what you do expect. Both of those games are not WoW or EQ. Sure, they both will have pve activity, but pve like you got in their single player games.. like trading, like crafting, like missions, like dogfighting.. similar what EvE is already offering(just without the action dogfight combat). So i doubt you will see anything like a Raid or anything similar what you may expect from a long term co op PvE experience. I can't even imagine what you would like to see or do expect.. after all they are both space sims... and not so much like traditional MMORPGs.

    Which leads me to the next:

    Originally posted by william0532

    Why just argue about Elite Vs Star Citizen, seems like a great time for sci fi fans period, with others coming as well.

    Plenty of good points about Star Citizen and Elite have been made. Pretty sure everyone gets the gist of both(I'm playing both, so I gives a damn about saying which is "best" lol.

    However, my big fault still lies in how segmented the mmo versions are. Both will allow you to avoid PvP(I know, a plus for a lot, just my quirk) with Star Citizen having a bit more complexity, which I'm sure Elite will do the same as well. However, if your an EVE fan(and I doubt there are many here, on this site), both seem pretty uninspiring if your looking for the original open world setup of the older mmo's, before they became single player themepark machines.

    Any way, there are other sci fi games featuring space combat in the work that have me interested as well.

    First, the one that could hold potential for an EVE fan; Limit Theory

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mchQbkE7ssZYXIgaY4PHg

    Kind of worrisome as it seems like only one guy working on it, but holy crap it's developing a lot of complexity if you like that sort of thing. No dogfighting though, sadly. Still pretty damn interesting.

    Than you have No Mans Sky, it has space ships, and dinosaurs? Graphics are a little dated, but definitely looks like it could be very fun(however, it sounds like it's going to be very splintered in the multiplayer realm, which is sad. Plus it's a timed exclusive with PS4, coming to computers later. Though it gives me that SWG vibe, but better(minus all the tab target mmo stuff, but hell, I only did the planet **** in Star Wars Galaxies too compete in space lol)

    Comment to the green marked:

    Well.. this reallly come down to that both are not coming from the traditional MMORPGs.. not one of them claims to be a MMORPG, or even a MMO. They come the other way around.. both want to be Space Sims, and both want to expand that with a multiplayer experience. And therefore their approach is quite different to EvE.

    So yes, both are somewhat restrictive in multiplayer. As much as i know Star Citizen will instance Space that some amount(not exactly defined up to know.. aiming as much as possible, but most probably not more than 100) of players can fight against and with each other. And Elite does something similar with their peer to peer approach.

    (In SC your ping is dependent on distance to the next server. In Elite the ping is dependent on the distance to the players playing with you.. So Elite can handle latency easier with mixing the players of a similar region together, whereas SC have to have Servers all over the world and match than players of a similar region together to have a good latency. And for real time games all latency of 150ms+ is deadly.. they or not EvE, where 500ms+ does work in some cases)

    And the reasoning is quite simple, if you want to have real dogfighting, with different hitboxes, and with realistic ship behaviour(like that some parts of your ships get hit, and have a malfunction) you can't do that with 1000 players in one area because of network limitation.. not to talk about the graphic rendering power you will have to have with that much ships around you. So it is a trade-off.. do you want a more realistic, more space sim dog fight, but with less players at the same time, or are you happy with your tab target, slow EvE combat, but then with hundreds of players? You can't have both, at least not at the moment and not in any foreseeable timeframe.. the numbers of players for real time combat with different hitboxes and projectiles willl increase over time.. but rather slowly.(and is highly regional dependent. US players can't play with Aussies and expect a latency less than 100 ms)

    But again.. non of both(Elite and SC) claim to be MMOs, although they are at least similar.. and considering what now a days is called MMOs(have instanced and channeled games) they are MMOs. Though not like EvE.

    Originally posted by TalonSonOfRichard
    Originally posted by wucks

     


    Originally posted by TalonSonOfRichard

    Originally posted by Arglebargle Makes Elite look pretty interesting.  Will have to keep an eye out  for the finished version.   For Star Citizen, I have every reason to expect it to continue to slip.  Instead of a workflow where you have programmers come up with cool things they can do, pitch it to the brass, it gets the go ahead and becomes a stretch goal, you get something rather different:   Grandiose vision, becomes a stretch goal, then the programmers get word from on high 'Figure out how to make this work!'
     

     

    Funny you say that because I've now just heard its not 2016, but end of 2016. Ho hum


     

    Because end of 2016 isn't 2016? Logic.

    You may not have been aware but there was a time it was end of 2014, early 2015. Then up until 2 weeks ago it was some time in 2015. Then it slipped out following CR being asked by a game journo that it would be early 2016. Now we are hearing end of 2016. Hope that's clearer for you now.  

    Although just speculation, but based on track record I won't be surprised if sooner or later we hear it will be beginning of 2017. Perhaps they should consider, instead of towels, adding in cockpit zimmer frames as their next stretch goal because by the time this game comes out we all might just need them.

    Elite meanwhile, said 2014 since day one, never changed that statement, and I'm very confident it will be 2014. As I mentioned before I'm already playing the alpha and will be playing the beta on May 30th which is the multiplayer game including trading, bounty hunting, piracy etc, within a 20 light year volume of space encompassing several systems.

    But as far as this track record of SC moving the release date for the PU goes, and facetiousness aside, I appreciate we all desperately want to believe, even to make excuses for them, but still it does not fill me with any confidence. And having said that, if you read my first post on the subject (post 136) you'll see this is far from my main concern. It is in fact a lengthy post in which I never mention this particular issue even once. 

     

    They have two different approaches to developing and delivering the game.

    Elite will release a basic product first, and then deliver more content and features with further expansions. Therefore they can deliver already in 2014 a basic game. Let's say your standard Elite(2014 version of it) + Multiplayer polished and working end of 2014.. so that everyone does have something to play. Later on they will release more features, like some kind of procedural generated planets(don't expect No Man's Sky kind of version.. it will most probably less detailed for a lot of technical reasons), or Avatar walking on stations and ships and stuff. But any of those are different expansions which will come after the first release. let say the first expansion comes a year or two later and so on.

    So they can better focus on each part and get not that easy overwhelmed by all the features. And have with that earlier a playable product.

    Star Citizen does want to have all of them in their first release.. well.. they got a lot of crowd funded money, and a lot of added goals. So the fanbase expect more or less all of the features on release. With that approach they have more overhead, and it will be more complicated, and of course time consuming. So it really is no suprise that the release will be a lot later.. and noone should be surprised if we have to wait until 2017/2018. But on the way we get little tidbits like the Hangar Modul, like the Dogfighting Modul and more coming during the development cycle.

    The con here is more overhead, more complicated from the get go. The Pro is that you can easier bring the parts together and adjust any of them to fit together.. because it is not already released and a major overhaul to some moduls can be easier done.

    I can't say what is the better approach.. both do have there advantages and disadvantages.

    The good thing for us is.. we can already play Elite end of 2014, and it will be easier to wait for Star Citizen and all of Elites expansions. And with that said.. the option BOTH.. is even more compelling.

    And finally.. i have no doubt, that both games will be released, and both games will be great for all of us, which have already loved the previous games from both of them. They are both no amateurs.. they are both game developer legends, and they do both exactly know how to make a space sim, as they have already proved time and time again. And don't fall into the trap of exaggerated expectations.

    And for all of you uncertain, what game you want to play, or if you want to play them at all. Just wait until they actually release, until you have read a few reviews, and make your decision then.

    Edit: Reread once.. and corrected some typos.

  • DrazoDrazo Member UncommonPosts: 25
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Later on they will release more features, like some kind of procedural generated planets(don't expect No Man's Sky kind of version.. it will most probably less detailed for a lot of technical reasons),

     

    I don't see why they won't be able to at least have that level of quality. I expect them to do better actually.  They did have 20 years since Frontier first encounters to think about this, they have the man power and they have the knowledge.  And they are taking the time to 'do it right' (in their own words).

    The technology is challenging but doable, and frankly it's a disgrace that not more games have been using it until now.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Brenelael

     

    Look... All I was trying to say is the barrier to entry is a lot lower for SC than ED which it is.


     


    Yeah, whole 15 USD difference that substitutes for lousy ship and greed of "the other" dev...

    No one was arguing what are the entry fees NOW but you, because to anyone with just a bit of common sense is clear that it is silly and irrelevant.

     


    Originally posted by Tyroki

     

    You've actually got it absolutely wrong.


     

    Too bad not a single line of your funny emotional outburst conflicts with anything I said.

    So... I can give Braben $50 and download the game and play right now? No? Didn't think so because it's $150 to do that. All $50 will get me is the game whenever it actually releases. This is a whole lot different than what you get for the basic pledge and a $5 AC pass in SC. As I said before these are just the facts. You are wrong... Period.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321


    Originally posted by Brenelael

    So... I can give Braben $50 and download the game and play right now? No? Didn't think so because it's $150 to do that. All $50 will get me is the game whenever it actually releases. This is a whole lot different than what you get for the basic pledge and a $5 AC pass in SC. As I said before these are just the facts. You are wrong... Period. Bren



    Originally posted by Gdemami

    No one was arguing what are the entry fees NOW but you, because to anyone with just a bit of common sense is clear that it is silly and irrelevant.


  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497

    As combat is the only thing we can actually compare at this time, I would go with Elite: Dangerous

    Video showing the two flight/combat models - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5x85F-DKM

  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Originally posted by Drazo
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Later on they will release more features, like some kind of procedural generated planets(don't expect No Man's Sky kind of version.. it will most probably less detailed for a lot of technical reasons),

     

    I don't see why they won't be able to at least have that level of quality. I expect them to do better actually.  They did have 20 years since Frontier first encounters to think about this, they have the man power and they have the knowledge.  And they are taking the time to 'do it right' (in their own words).

    The technology is challenging but doable, and frankly it's a disgrace that not more games have been using it until now.

    Also the engine used in ED is the same used in Zoo Tycoon, 

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6O7Js5KB5I

     

    While what is added to ED might not be to that level, it shows what can be done with the Cobra engine.  

  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Originally posted by Brenelael
    Originally posted by TheYear1500
    Originally posted by mayito7777
    Elite starts at $150, kind of steep to just start that way. No a whole a lot of people can afford that.

     

    It does not start at $150.  It starts at $50 for the base game.   You can pick up the expansion pass for another $50.  If you want to play right now then its another $50 (for a total of $150, base game + expansion pass+early beta).  If you want to wait for the normal beta than its only $25 more than the base game (so total of $75, base game + beta).  

     

    If you want to play now it is $150. This point is not arguable as it is what it is. Star Citizen is about $35 ($30 Aurora package + $5 AC Pass). That is quite a price difference. If you compare Alpha costs it's even more as Elite was around $300 for Alpha access for those that missed out on the Kickstarter. Not sure what Braben is thinking as he'd most probably make a crap load more money if he lowered the cost. His greed is his own worst enemy. A large part of Star Citizen's huge success is the low barrier for entry. Just about anyone can afford to get into SC even at this point.  It would have never made 46 million dollars charging Elite prices.

     

    Don't get me wrong as I've said many times I think Elite is a great game with great potential but the pricing is a little insane.

     

    Bren

    Why did you repeat what I said?  I said that if you want to play now its $150.  But no one is forcing you to pay that, the base game is $50.  

     

    Want to fly anything other than the starter ship in AC (AC is Star Citizen's Dogfighting Module)?  Yep pay more, your base package only lets you fly the starter ship, nothing more.  Want to fly the 300i a much better ship in pvp, up pay up more.  Want a better ship than that?  Yep spend over $125 to fly the Hornet.  Want the best weapons in the AC?  You only have to buy them in the CASH SHOP for $16 each.

     

    You keep acting as though you are forced to play the game now or somehow that is the barrier to enter, when its not.   You clearly don't understand what "barrier to enter" means.  The minim for SC currently $30, that is its barrier, for ED its $50.  

     

    Braben has not changed the price because that is what the kickstarter prices were and to be fair to the original backers the price for the game will not change.  ED also set such a high price because they didn't want a lot of people in the alpha or beta phases.  If you want to know why just look at SC, 3 weeks after the launch of AC and they only have 10% of the players into the multiplayer.  

    In short no one is forcing you to play now, no one is forcing you to pay the extra amount to play now.  At $50 for the base game it is at a good price point.  And yes SC is a much better deal, but then again the AC sucks currently, and who knows when the rest of the game will be released.  Meanwhile you could be having fun in ED, normal beta starts July 29, and only costs $75 (comes with base game).   

  • expressoexpresso Member UncommonPosts: 2,218

    Holy thread resurrection batman.

    I have made the decision to go with ED as it looks like it will deliver on what it wanted to do at release, SC for me still is trying to do it all at once but will likely not nail anything perfectly.... a jack of all trades master of none if you like.

    There's no harm getting ED and waiting for SC to mature.

    Plus the sound design in ED is just magnificent, even splashed out on a HOTAS for max enjoyment.  See you out there commander.

     

This discussion has been closed.