Originally posted by ArcheAge2014 i dont need to play eve online, im waiting on star citizen.
for sure EVE sand box MMORPG is not game for you , why wait SC ? go play any game from X universe they are best space sim's SP games on market .For fun casual space ships shooter MP ,wait for SC or Elite.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra This cop out of freedom to act like a sociopath online is why this game is avoided like Herpes. I am "free" to mass murder a preschool full of toddlers, but I don't because I'm not a prick who gets my jollies by ruining someone else's life/fun/happiness. You can continue to try and justify this cesspool and the turds that circle it, but you end up looking just as off your rocker as they are by enabling it. I for one am glad this game exists. It keeps the dbags of humanity locked up in their own zoo and away from the rest of us.
Aw, c'mon, can you really equate some totally horrific real life crime such as your example to the activities that go on in EVE? Even at their worst (and there have been some bad ones), they don't come anywhere close to your example, excessive use of hyperbole does not bolster your argument, just makes you a sensationalist.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by AndrewGoat
So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?
...
Lolz.
Yeah, I don't get it either. I'd rather not play a game that permits scamming and griefing. No offense to those who still play EVE.
Had to fix that for you. CCP doesn't promote any playstyle, but it does permit a wide variety including people who chose to attempt to scam and grief. If you fly smart, which most people who stick around for any length of time learn to, you won't be much impacted by either activity.
So much ignorance in this thread about how the game really plays, you guys really shouldn't believe what you read on the internet and then assume it is representative, they are anomolies folks, not daily occurances for the average player.
They most absolutely do endorse it. They not too long ago invited new players out somewhere, and one of the largest griefing guild "just happened to be there" when they jumped in. When they were accused of setting those folks up, the CCP members had a good laugh about it and basically told those folks to shut up.
A couple of points. First, killing other people's spaceships is neither scamming or griefing, it's core game play, and I will agree, CCP does it's best to "assist" players to grow beyond their self-imposed boundaries and learn to embrace the PVP core that is the heart of the game.
If you have some "proof" that CCP set the above named scenario up strictly for lols please post the links because I'd like to read it directly. There are many passages in the TOC that specifically define and prohibit what CCP feels to be outside the bounds of normal game play, read it sometimes and perhaps you'll be less inclined to believe legends on the internet.
I can see CCP members laughing about it though, their motto is HTFU, and at the end of the day the players killed lost a few ships, something you'd better get used to if you're going to play EVE.
BTW, I find it very odd that a character named "Ganksinatra" would post this viewpoint, you have a change of heart at some point and now you are no longer a sociopath?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think I do. A sandbox is a creation tool. All the sandboxes, both real and digital, are outlets of expression. I remember Star Wars Galaxies, and the heart of that game--the soul of that game--was in the creativity I saw. You could see it in the character generator. You could see it in the houses. You could see it in the player cities. You could see it in the crafting of objects that have uses far beyond their intended use.
And what strikes me about EVE--most of all--is how uncreative a platform it is for anything other than doing one over on someone. Something as simple as paining your ship, something that can be done rather easily, seems beyond this game's scope. Everything players interact with is rote, routine and the same as everyone else. Except, of course, when it comes to one-upmanship.
No, EVE is no sandbox, because there really is no 'sand' there. There are rocks, of course, which are unsuitable for building anything interesting, which are stacked up and stockpiled to throw at one another. And since there's no referee, the only real gameplay is how to stone someone in a funnier or more devious way than the last guy. That's the extent of the creativity there.
It really takes games like Minecraft and Space Engineers to show how really 'unsandboxy' a game like EVE really is. Despite the freedom that EVE claims to offer, it is amazingly unfree in terms of what you can do. Eleven years, and no freedom to paint ships. Eleven years, and no freedom to walk around in the environment. Eleven years, and no freedom to design a house, or a ship, or a weapon system, or a cool jacket.
Sandbox? What good is a sandbox if you can only build the same sandcastle as everyone else?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I think I do. A sandbox is a creation tool. All the sandboxes, both real and digital, are outlets of expression. I remember Star Wars Galaxies, and the heart of that game--the soul of that game--was in the creativity I saw. You could see it in the character generator. You could see it in the houses. You could see it in the player cities. You could see it in the crafting of objects that have uses far beyond their intended use.
And what strikes me about EVE--most of all--is how uncreative a platform it is for anything other than doing one over on someone. Something as simple as paining your ship, something that can be done rather easily, seems beyond this game's scope. Everything players interact with is rote, routine and the same as everyone else. Except, of course, when it comes to one-upmanship.
No, EVE is no sandbox, because there really is no 'sand' there. There are rocks, of course, which are unsuitable for building anything interesting, which are stacked up and stockpiled to throw at one another. And since there's no referee, the only real gameplay is how to stone someone in a funnier or more devious way than the last guy. That's the extent of the creativity there.
It really takes games like Minecraft and Space Engineers to show how really 'unsandboxy' a game like EVE really is. Despite the freedom that EVE claims to offer, it is amazingly unfree in terms of what you can do. Eleven years, and no freedom to paint ships. Eleven years, and no freedom to walk around in the environment. Eleven years, and no freedom to design a house, or a ship, or a weapon system, or a cool jacket.
Sandbox? What good is a sandbox if you can only build the same sandcastle as everyone else?
I think you are taking the term sandbox too literally, its not just about building virtual assets. Eve is a sandbox, the 'sand' as you put it are the economic and strategic tools provided within the 'box' aka game engine which allow genuine player driven political and direct interaction that has direct implications on the entire virtual universe.
First time in 10 years I have heard someone say Eve is not a Sandbox, interesting times.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I think you are taking the term sandbox too literally, its not just about building virtual assets. Eve is a sandbox, the 'sand' as you put it are the economic and strategic tools provided within the 'box' aka game engine which allow genuine player driven political and direct interaction that has direct implications on the entire virtual universe.
First time in 10 years I have heard someone say Eve is not a Sandbox, interesting times.
Aren't they?
But in a way it is also a good experience. The people so easily falling for misconceptions, hyperbole and some outright lies about EvE are really better off not playing it. They lack critical and analytical thinking and wouldn't fare well.
Let's just say it's different kind of sandboxy elements. I can relate with Beatnik59. EVE has the sandbox tools for trading, logistics, PvP, politics, corps, building ship components, specializing skills etc. That kind of sandbox experience... but I'd, too, rather design cool jackets and color my ships, at least sometimes. That's different kind of sandbox experience.
EVE leaves cold in all it's amazingness. I want to have fun when playing games, in the end of day. EVE is only work and worries, while that is important in good MMORPG, but EVE just takes it to extreme. If I just want to play around and have fun, EVE has very little tools for that. Even the exploration part is kind of meh. Exploration would be more fun if I could stumble into more interesting creations... be it of game developers or players.
Let's just say it's different kind of sandboxy elements. I can relate with Beatnik59. EVE has the sandbox tools for trading, logistics, PvP, politics, corps, building ship components, specializing skills etc. That kind of sandbox experience... but I'd, too, rather design cool jackets and color my ships, at least sometimes. That's different kind of sandbox experience.
EVE leaves cold in all it's amazingness. I want to have fun when playing games, in the end of day. EVE is only work and worries, while that is important in good MMORPG, but EVE just takes it to extreme. If I just want to play around and have fun, EVE has very little tools for that. Even the exploration part is kind of meh. Exploration would be more fun if I could stumble into more interesting creations... be it of game developers or players.
The better run nullsec alliances are tremendously supportive of casual play. Over and over the same underlying assumption that I see from people complaining about the kind of game they imagine EVE to be is that they invariably implicitly assume that they'll be acting alone.
Originally posted by DamonVile For a 10 year old game all these posts do is attract the right type of people to the game. They do nothing to actually hurt it.
DamonVile's words are just! He's the most reasonable man in this forum, his points are always logical.
A sandbox is where the developers give you the tools and say go see what rides you can make with these. A themepark is where the developers give you the tools and say take these tools and use them to help you ride our rides.
A good example of old sandbox play in EvE was what I did with privateers and war decs. War decs were originally just a method for a player or corporation to attack another player or corporation in high sec, they were used mostly by small corporations to fight other small corporations. I got frustrated with alliances chasing me off in null sec, so after a bit of forum warrioring I was challenged by an alliance guy, he basically said "if you don't like alliances, declare war on us". He said it as a joke, I took it seriously.
So I created Privateers, declared war on 3 alliances (the limit), rotating those alliances each week and then started inviting everyone and anyone who wanted to join, spies, bored people, anyone, no rules, no required checks and you can leave and join whenever you liked. It turned into an alliance, with corporations welcome. Eventually ending with having up to 100+ wars at any one time.
CCP's sandbox at work right? We used the tools to create something new, and to fight back against the alliances dominating both high, low and null.
CCP's response to alliance members crying bitterly - destroy the idea. Sandbox. Nope.
If it had been a real sandbox CCP should have stayed out, the alliances could have and should have been required to ADAPT to Privateers or be reduced in strength.
Sov is also themepark. There is only one real way to take sov space. Only one real way to blow up a tower or sov asset. No free flowing combat, you always need to wait out the timer and show up for predetermined time and place fight. That's not sandbox.
So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?
...
Lolz.
There were 35 thousand people logged in right before I typed this, so apparently it's a reasonable expectation.
How many people just took a dump? The significance is about the same. 35,000 people at that moment wanted to be jerks in fake outer space, so what. Doesn't mean they aren't doing something base and not in the category of the better potential of human activities, just means a lot of people enjoy being no-consequence e-thugs. They could just re-draw those warpgates as the doorway to the restroom in a middle school and make the ships pimply-faced bullies.
That's EVE in a nutshell.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
How many people just took a dump? The significance is about the same. 35,000 people at that moment wanted to be jerks in fake outer space, so what. Doesn't mean they aren't doing something base and not in the category of the better potential of human activities, just means a lot of people enjoy being no-consequence e-thugs. They could just re-draw those warpgates as the doorway to the restroom in a middle school and make the ships pimply-faced bullies.
That's EVE in a nutshell.
Somebody scoffed at the idea that people would pay to play a game like Eve. I pointed out that there are an assload of people paying to play Eve. If you don't understand the sigificance, then it's beyond my powers of conversation to help you. But don't let that stop you from talking about how people who play a video game you don't like are terrible human beings while whining about online bullying. One couldn't expect you to grasp something as subtle as irony, after all.
How many people just took a dump? The significance is about the same. 35,000 people at that moment wanted to be jerks in fake outer space, so what. Doesn't mean they aren't doing something base and not in the category of the better potential of human activities, just means a lot of people enjoy being no-consequence e-thugs. They could just re-draw those warpgates as the doorway to the restroom in a middle school and make the ships pimply-faced bullies.
That's EVE in a nutshell.
Somebody scoffed at the idea that people would pay to play a game like Eve. I pointed out that there are an assload of people paying to play Eve. If you don't understand the sigificance, then it's beyond my powers of conversation to help you. But don't let that stop you from talking about how people who play a video game you don't like are terrible human beings while whining about online bullying. One couldn't expect you to grasp something as subtle as irony, after all.
I think you assumed a tone in my post that wasn't meant to be there. I'm simply stating the truth as I see it. Human nature is what it is, and the behaviors on display in EVE are exactly what the recipe delivers. Encouraged violence with no consequences means predation as a rule. Predation among humans can be called being a thug or a bully as proper denotations. Not sure why this is offensive to you if it is
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
How many people just took a dump? The significance is about the same. 35,000 people at that moment wanted to be jerks in fake outer space, so what. Doesn't mean they aren't doing something base and not in the category of the better potential of human activities, just means a lot of people enjoy being no-consequence e-thugs. They could just re-draw those warpgates as the doorway to the restroom in a middle school and make the ships pimply-faced bullies.
That's EVE in a nutshell.
Somebody scoffed at the idea that people would pay to play a game like Eve. I pointed out that there are an assload of people paying to play Eve. If you don't understand the sigificance, then it's beyond my powers of conversation to help you. But don't let that stop you from talking about how people who play a video game you don't like are terrible human beings while whining about online bullying. One couldn't expect you to grasp something as subtle as irony, after all.
I think you assumed a tone in my post that wasn't meant to be there. I'm simply stating the truth as I see it. Human nature is what it is, and the behaviors on display in EVE are exactly what the recipe delivers. Encouraged violence with no consequences means predation as a rule. Predation among humans can be called being a thug or a bully as proper denotations. Not sure why this is offensive to you if it is
It's not offensive, it's just wildly illogical. We're talking about a game. EVE Online is as much a case of "encouraged violence with no consequence" as RISK or Axis and Allies are. You probably never played either, so here's a link to the side of conquest games (RISK, specifically) that you seem unfamiliar with.
WARNING: That link contains material that may be too shocking to read for special snowflakes, the entitled, and certain breeds of Millennials. Here's an excerpt:
You are playing against humans with minds; minds that can have weaknesses which you can exploit. Unlike chess, in Risk you are not searching for a perfect move; instead you are searching for a way to control your opponent’s mind. The sooner you can do that, and the more successful you are in doing it, the more likely that you win the game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think you assumed a tone in my post that wasn't meant to be there. I'm simply stating the truth as I see it. Human nature is what it is, and the behaviors on display in EVE are exactly what the recipe delivers. Encouraged violence with no consequences means predation as a rule. Predation among humans can be called being a thug or a bully as proper denotations. Not sure why this is offensive to you if it is
It's not offensive, it's just wildly illogical. We're talking about a game. EVE Online is as much a case of "encouraged violence with no consequence" as RISK or Axis and Allies are. You probably never played either, so here's a link to the side of conquest games (RISK, specifically) that you seem unfamiliar with.
WARNING: That link contains material that may be too shocking to read for special snowflakes, the entitled, and certain breeds of Millennials. Here's an excerpt:
You are playing against humans with minds; minds that can have weaknesses which you can exploit. Unlike chess, in Risk you are not searching for a perfect move; instead you are searching for a way to control your opponent’s mind. The sooner you can do that, and the more successful you are in doing it, the more likely that you win the game.
If the same mindset were prevalent you might have a point, but EVE isn't played like checkers or backgammon. I have played EVE and I can say that you are trying to sugarcoat something that is plainly antisocial behavior mimicked by a game, ergo there are no consequences for engaging in said in-game violence. Try and convince me that EVE is about cooperation or some shit, go ahead.
EVE is about fucking the person next to you or not doing so out of fear. EVE is prison - Be someone's bitch or get owned.
The fact that the game on average has players spending unbelievable amounts of time invested means that somebody sat at the computer and put man hours into whatever they were doing so that they could either gank or hope to not be ganked by other players. This is not the same as Risk or Axis and Allies. Even a long A&A game isn't usually more than 8 hours. EVE players sometimes log 60 hours in a week. That is investment tied to a desired outcome in a game. But the fact is that the game is just plain old nutkicking, old as the world and not novel.
You are not controlling anyone's mind with a 30 second combat either. Get over yourself there Patton. EVE isn't some lofty strategy think tank, it's pure force with accountant sycophants playing spreadsheet to jerk off over the in game damage in Isk.
Youre right that it's just a game, but it's a depraved game. At least be honest with yourself, you like a depraved game. Depraved because the human interface of the game is about attempting to make a human player out there suffer while you profit. Otherwise you would stay in high sec.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by ArchlyteIf the same mindset were prevalent you might have a point, but EVE isn't played like checkers or backgammon. I have played EVE and I can say that you are trying to sugarcoat something that is plainly antisocial behavior mimicked by a game, ergo there are no consequences for engaging in said in-game violence. Try and convince me that EVE is about cooperation or some shit, go ahead.EVE is about fucking the person next to you or not doing so out of fear. EVE is prison - Be someone's bitch or get owned.The fact that the game on average has players spending unbelievable amounts of time invested means that somebody sat at the computer and put man hours into whatever they were doing so that they could either gank or hope to not be ganked by other players. This is not the same as Risk or Axis and Allies. Even a long A&A game isn't usually more than 8 hours. EVE players sometimes log 60 hours in a week. That is investment tied to a desired outcome in a game. But the fact is that the game is just plain old nutkicking, old as the world and not novel.You are not controlling anyone's mind with a 30 second combat either. Get over yourself there Patton. EVE isn't some lofty strategy think tank, it's pure force with accountant sycophants playing spreadsheet to jerk off over the in game damage in Isk.Youre right that it's just a game, but it's a depraved game. At least be honest with yourself, you like a depraved game because the human interface of the game is about attempting to make a human player out there suffer while you profit. Otherwise you would stay in high sec.
Your perception is shaping your experience, and EVE is no exception in that regard.
However, personal perception does not neccesarily have to meet with reality or be even close to it ad in that case I find your your perception almost unhealthy.
Everytime I try EvE I leave bored out of my mind. Space is vast. Would be nice to have something to do in it.
Whilst i would suggest anyone with any interest in eve to try it for themselves( and if you have some common sense you should do fine). I kind of have to agree with this, at least until they add the ability to leave the ship i some form to explore the universe. But that doesn't mean that others feel the same, after all eve is really the only mmo that is contiually growing with over 500k subs now, must be doing something right.
If the same mindset were prevalent you might have a point, but EVE isn't played like checkers or backgammon. I have played EVE and I can say that you are trying to sugarcoat something that is plainly antisocial behavior mimicked by a game, ergo there are no consequences for engaging in said in-game violence. Try and convince me that EVE is about cooperation or some shit, go ahead.
EVE is about fucking the person next to you or not doing so out of fear. EVE is prison - Be someone's bitch or get owned.
The fact that the game on average has players spending unbelievable amounts of time invested means that somebody sat at the computer and put man hours into whatever they were doing so that they could either gank or hope to not be ganked by other players. This is not the same as Risk or Axis and Allies. Even a long A&A game isn't usually more than 8 hours. EVE players sometimes log 60 hours in a week. That is investment tied to a desired outcome in a game. But the fact is that the game is just plain old nutkicking, old as the world and not novel.
You are not controlling anyone's mind with a 30 second combat either. Get over yourself there Patton. EVE isn't some lofty strategy think tank, it's pure force with accountant sycophants playing spreadsheet to jerk off over the in game damage in Isk.
Youre right that it's just a game, but it's a depraved game. At least be honest with yourself, you like a depraved game because the human interface of the game is about attempting to make a human player out there suffer while you profit. Otherwise you would stay in high sec.
Your perception is shaping your experience, and EVE is no exception in that regard.
How many players walk away with the same perception though? It's a niche title for a reason. Most people who try it walk away because they see with their own eyes that it is a cross-section of in game depravity. I'm not sure how you can argue that EVE is some kind of misunderstood playground.
As a public service it's a good idea to let people know what EVE is, it's a game where you attempt to kill everyone else by: Directly attacking them, suckering them into trusting you, or using bottlenecked travel routes to ambush them. The rest of the shit in that game is subordinate to the main mechanic, which would be fine but the community has embraced being as much of a dick as you possibly can be (see The guy with cancer, et al, etc.).
Don't play this game unless this is what you want. Everything in EVE revolves around screwing other players. It is a PvP griefing game. period
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by Archlyte How many players walk away with the same perception though?
No idea, there is no way to tell.
However, it does not seem to prevent you from making gross assumptions. It just shows how detached from reality and full of bias rather than facts you are.
Comments
for sure EVE sand box MMORPG is not game for you , why wait SC ? go play any game from X universe they are best space sim's SP games on market .For fun casual space ships shooter MP ,wait for SC or Elite.
All things considered, EvE is a rather unique experience in the vast sea of MMO gaming. Why anyone would want it to change is beyond me.
I've always found EvE difficult to get into, but not because players can grief / gank / scam. That kind of freedom is part of the allure.
A couple of points. First, killing other people's spaceships is neither scamming or griefing, it's core game play, and I will agree, CCP does it's best to "assist" players to grow beyond their self-imposed boundaries and learn to embrace the PVP core that is the heart of the game.
If you have some "proof" that CCP set the above named scenario up strictly for lols please post the links because I'd like to read it directly. There are many passages in the TOC that specifically define and prohibit what CCP feels to be outside the bounds of normal game play, read it sometimes and perhaps you'll be less inclined to believe legends on the internet.
I can see CCP members laughing about it though, their motto is HTFU, and at the end of the day the players killed lost a few ships, something you'd better get used to if you're going to play EVE.
BTW, I find it very odd that a character named "Ganksinatra" would post this viewpoint, you have a change of heart at some point and now you are no longer a sociopath?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
I think I do. A sandbox is a creation tool. All the sandboxes, both real and digital, are outlets of expression. I remember Star Wars Galaxies, and the heart of that game--the soul of that game--was in the creativity I saw. You could see it in the character generator. You could see it in the houses. You could see it in the player cities. You could see it in the crafting of objects that have uses far beyond their intended use.
And what strikes me about EVE--most of all--is how uncreative a platform it is for anything other than doing one over on someone. Something as simple as paining your ship, something that can be done rather easily, seems beyond this game's scope. Everything players interact with is rote, routine and the same as everyone else. Except, of course, when it comes to one-upmanship.
No, EVE is no sandbox, because there really is no 'sand' there. There are rocks, of course, which are unsuitable for building anything interesting, which are stacked up and stockpiled to throw at one another. And since there's no referee, the only real gameplay is how to stone someone in a funnier or more devious way than the last guy. That's the extent of the creativity there.
It really takes games like Minecraft and Space Engineers to show how really 'unsandboxy' a game like EVE really is. Despite the freedom that EVE claims to offer, it is amazingly unfree in terms of what you can do. Eleven years, and no freedom to paint ships. Eleven years, and no freedom to walk around in the environment. Eleven years, and no freedom to design a house, or a ship, or a weapon system, or a cool jacket.
Sandbox? What good is a sandbox if you can only build the same sandcastle as everyone else?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I think you are taking the term sandbox too literally, its not just about building virtual assets. Eve is a sandbox, the 'sand' as you put it are the economic and strategic tools provided within the 'box' aka game engine which allow genuine player driven political and direct interaction that has direct implications on the entire virtual universe.
First time in 10 years I have heard someone say Eve is not a Sandbox, interesting times.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Aren't they?
But in a way it is also a good experience. The people so easily falling for misconceptions, hyperbole and some outright lies about EvE are really better off not playing it. They lack critical and analytical thinking and wouldn't fare well.
No, sorry you don't.
You mistake customization for sandbox.
Let's just say it's different kind of sandboxy elements. I can relate with Beatnik59. EVE has the sandbox tools for trading, logistics, PvP, politics, corps, building ship components, specializing skills etc. That kind of sandbox experience... but I'd, too, rather design cool jackets and color my ships, at least sometimes. That's different kind of sandbox experience.
EVE leaves cold in all it's amazingness. I want to have fun when playing games, in the end of day. EVE is only work and worries, while that is important in good MMORPG, but EVE just takes it to extreme. If I just want to play around and have fun, EVE has very little tools for that. Even the exploration part is kind of meh. Exploration would be more fun if I could stumble into more interesting creations... be it of game developers or players.
The better run nullsec alliances are tremendously supportive of casual play. Over and over the same underlying assumption that I see from people complaining about the kind of game they imagine EVE to be is that they invariably implicitly assume that they'll be acting alone.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
DamonVile's words are just! He's the most reasonable man in this forum, his points are always logical.
There were 35 thousand people logged in right before I typed this, so apparently it's a reasonable expectation.
A sandbox is where the developers give you the tools and say go see what rides you can make with these. A themepark is where the developers give you the tools and say take these tools and use them to help you ride our rides.
A good example of old sandbox play in EvE was what I did with privateers and war decs. War decs were originally just a method for a player or corporation to attack another player or corporation in high sec, they were used mostly by small corporations to fight other small corporations. I got frustrated with alliances chasing me off in null sec, so after a bit of forum warrioring I was challenged by an alliance guy, he basically said "if you don't like alliances, declare war on us". He said it as a joke, I took it seriously.
So I created Privateers, declared war on 3 alliances (the limit), rotating those alliances each week and then started inviting everyone and anyone who wanted to join, spies, bored people, anyone, no rules, no required checks and you can leave and join whenever you liked. It turned into an alliance, with corporations welcome. Eventually ending with having up to 100+ wars at any one time.
CCP's sandbox at work right? We used the tools to create something new, and to fight back against the alliances dominating both high, low and null.
CCP's response to alliance members crying bitterly - destroy the idea. Sandbox. Nope.
If it had been a real sandbox CCP should have stayed out, the alliances could have and should have been required to ADAPT to Privateers or be reduced in strength.
Sov is also themepark. There is only one real way to take sov space. Only one real way to blow up a tower or sov asset. No free flowing combat, you always need to wait out the timer and show up for predetermined time and place fight. That's not sandbox.
How many people just took a dump? The significance is about the same. 35,000 people at that moment wanted to be jerks in fake outer space, so what. Doesn't mean they aren't doing something base and not in the category of the better potential of human activities, just means a lot of people enjoy being no-consequence e-thugs. They could just re-draw those warpgates as the doorway to the restroom in a middle school and make the ships pimply-faced bullies.
That's EVE in a nutshell.
Somebody scoffed at the idea that people would pay to play a game like Eve. I pointed out that there are an assload of people paying to play Eve. If you don't understand the sigificance, then it's beyond my powers of conversation to help you. But don't let that stop you from talking about how people who play a video game you don't like are terrible human beings while whining about online bullying. One couldn't expect you to grasp something as subtle as irony, after all.
I think you assumed a tone in my post that wasn't meant to be there. I'm simply stating the truth as I see it. Human nature is what it is, and the behaviors on display in EVE are exactly what the recipe delivers. Encouraged violence with no consequences means predation as a rule. Predation among humans can be called being a thug or a bully as proper denotations. Not sure why this is offensive to you if it is
It's not offensive, it's just wildly illogical. We're talking about a game. EVE Online is as much a case of "encouraged violence with no consequence" as RISK or Axis and Allies are. You probably never played either, so here's a link to the side of conquest games (RISK, specifically) that you seem unfamiliar with.
WARNING: That link contains material that may be too shocking to read for special snowflakes, the entitled, and certain breeds of Millennials. Here's an excerpt:
You are playing against humans with minds; minds that can have weaknesses which you can exploit. Unlike chess, in Risk you are not searching for a perfect move; instead you are searching for a way to control your opponent’s mind. The sooner you can do that, and the more successful you are in doing it, the more likely that you win the game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In space ... no one can hear you snore...
Everytime I try EvE I leave bored out of my mind. Space is vast. Would be nice to have something to do in it.
If the same mindset were prevalent you might have a point, but EVE isn't played like checkers or backgammon. I have played EVE and I can say that you are trying to sugarcoat something that is plainly antisocial behavior mimicked by a game, ergo there are no consequences for engaging in said in-game violence. Try and convince me that EVE is about cooperation or some shit, go ahead.
EVE is about fucking the person next to you or not doing so out of fear. EVE is prison - Be someone's bitch or get owned.
The fact that the game on average has players spending unbelievable amounts of time invested means that somebody sat at the computer and put man hours into whatever they were doing so that they could either gank or hope to not be ganked by other players. This is not the same as Risk or Axis and Allies. Even a long A&A game isn't usually more than 8 hours. EVE players sometimes log 60 hours in a week. That is investment tied to a desired outcome in a game. But the fact is that the game is just plain old nutkicking, old as the world and not novel.
You are not controlling anyone's mind with a 30 second combat either. Get over yourself there Patton. EVE isn't some lofty strategy think tank, it's pure force with accountant sycophants playing spreadsheet to jerk off over the in game damage in Isk.
Youre right that it's just a game, but it's a depraved game. At least be honest with yourself, you like a depraved game. Depraved because the human interface of the game is about attempting to make a human player out there suffer while you profit. Otherwise you would stay in high sec.
Your perception is shaping your experience, and EVE is no exception in that regard.
However, personal perception does not neccesarily have to meet with reality or be even close to it ad in that case I find your your perception almost unhealthy.
Whilst i would suggest anyone with any interest in eve to try it for themselves( and if you have some common sense you should do fine). I kind of have to agree with this, at least until they add the ability to leave the ship i some form to explore the universe. But that doesn't mean that others feel the same, after all eve is really the only mmo that is contiually growing with over 500k subs now, must be doing something right.
How many players walk away with the same perception though? It's a niche title for a reason. Most people who try it walk away because they see with their own eyes that it is a cross-section of in game depravity. I'm not sure how you can argue that EVE is some kind of misunderstood playground.
As a public service it's a good idea to let people know what EVE is, it's a game where you attempt to kill everyone else by: Directly attacking them, suckering them into trusting you, or using bottlenecked travel routes to ambush them. The rest of the shit in that game is subordinate to the main mechanic, which would be fine but the community has embraced being as much of a dick as you possibly can be (see The guy with cancer, et al, etc.).
Don't play this game unless this is what you want. Everything in EVE revolves around screwing other players. It is a PvP griefing game. period
No idea, there is no way to tell.
However, it does not seem to prevent you from making gross assumptions. It just shows how detached from reality and full of bias rather than facts you are.