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Trion must be desperate.....

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  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,917
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Your accusation that game companies would intentionaly try to rip off their customers for $150 is ludicrous.

    No game company would do this - as it's a loss of revenue (chargeback fees) and a loss of customer - also it's completely illegal.

     

    I wasn't aware that game companies operate at a higher standard than many other companies.  I've experiences many false charges over the years working with much larger companies.  Why a game company would be incapable of this type of behavior is a rather ludicrous statement on your part.

    Edit: I've noticed that you have a habit of making these kind of posts without any sort of evidence to back up your claims.  I'd suggest you take a step back, DMK and consider what you are writing before clicking that post button.

    Not that DMKano needs me to speak for him, but I think the point is the OP was accusing Trion of intentionally trying to defraud their customers, which I agree with him, no legitimate firm will ever try to do.

    Sure, we've all had false charges on our accounts, and in most cases they are honest errors, well, except for situations such as phone companies did years ago switching your long distance and what not, but those normally end up in class action.

    Even the mistake I had with Trion back in May wasn't because they were trying to sneak something past me and sign me up for RIFT, something glitched in the ordering process that reactivated my old RIFT account and card.  They weren't trying to cheat me.

     

    What are you talking about?  No legitimate firm will ever try to do?  Do you live in Disneyland or something?  There are reports and class action suits that happen on a daily basis brought against much larger companies than Trion could ever hope to be citing similar complaints.

    If you think that just because a company has filed the necessary paperwork to become an actual entity that it somehow brings a level of legitimacy to them, then you have much to learn.

    Edit: Sure, it's easy to believe this incidents may be accidental, but time has shown us again and again that we are constantly plagued by companies and leaders that will do just that.  I don't mean to go into the political realm, but in case you haven't noticed, our economy is in the shithole right now due to just that.

    So, please leave the rosy colored glasses at the door and engage in some real conversation here.   If you want to live a fantasy, so be it.  But there is a lot of crappy stuff going on and if someone experiences it, they have every right to voice it if it concerns an MMORPG and their experiences with that company.

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by grimal
     

    So, please leave the rosy colored glasses at the door and engage in some real conversation here.   If you want to live a fantasy, so be it.  But there is a lot of crappy stuff going on and if someone experiences it, they have every right to voice it if it concerns an MMORPG and their experiences with that company.

     

    But it's not a real conversation. If it was it would have started with an actual fact. This is just hypothetical accusations and bullshit stories accusing a real company that seems to be trying to help people who have had problems with a third party getting access to their accounts.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,516
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by grimal
     

    So, please leave the rosy colored glasses at the door and engage in some real conversation here.   If you want to live a fantasy, so be it.  But there is a lot of crappy stuff going on and if someone experiences it, they have every right to voice it if it concerns an MMORPG and their experiences with that company.

     

    But it's not a real conversation. If it was it would have started with an actual fact. This is just hypothetical accusations and bullshit stories accusing a real company that seems to be trying to help people who have had problems with a third party getting access to their accounts.

    Well yeah, that's my point really.  Am I wearing rose colored glasses if I don't view every corporate entity or political figure as part of the evil conspiracy to hold me down and cheat me blind?

    Focusing on just this one issue at this one company, I see no evidence that Trion deliberately set up to defraud their customer base by charging them for something they didn't order, heck, even when it happened to me in May I gave them a benefit of the doubt that it was a billing or system error.

    I know others may think this naive of me, but I actually give my fellow man the benefit of the doubt, I don't call them liars at the first opportunity, I don't assume they are all trying to screw me over, and I especially don't lose a lot of sleep worrying about those who might.

    Sure, I take reasonable precautions to protect myself and my family, and carve an honest living for myself in the world and in games. 

    Yeah, we live in a fallen world, but there's still so much that's amazing about it, and it sure beats the alternative.  image

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • SomeOldBlokeSomeOldBloke Member UncommonPosts: 2,167
    Originally posted by Aparition
    ludicrous my ass, there is money being deducted from my bank account under the guise of Trion Rift, for the purchase of a Trion Archeage founders pack, they obviously have my credit card details on file somewhere from years ago when i payed a sub for Rift, and now some newb in there has decided to charge me for a game i dont even wanna play, so all your bs about they "cant " do this and they " cant" do that, is ludicrous

    So it has to be trion... there's no possible way that you used your credit card to buy something on an unsecure site and thats how they got the details.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283


    Originally posted by Netspook

    If there was any changes making the card invalid, then why have I been able to pay for a WoW sub with it, for 7-8 years, without doing any change whatsoever?

    Because reccuring payments are processed differently - for obvious resons, however that is not the case of OP.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283


    Originally posted by Ghabbo

    Well, that's your opinion and I respect that (I do not agree, of course). For me the Russian incident is something totally unrelated to this. In any case, why we didn't hear about WoD, C.R.E.E.D, Plex, or ESO Imperial Editions purchases? Again, everything points to a security vulnerability. 

    Are they?

    First hit on google:
    https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92675-hackingaccounts-being-taken-is-getting-out-of-hand/

    Not going to bother with the rest.

    Yeah, everything points to a place but it is not a security vulnerability of Trion...

  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghabbo

    Well, that's your opinion and I respect that (I do not agree, of course).

     

     

    For me the Russian incident is something totally unrelated to this. In any case, why we didn't hear about WoD, C.R.E.E.D, Plex, or ESO Imperial Editions purchases? Again, everything points to a security vulnerability.

     


     

    Are they?

    First hit on google:
    https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92675-hackingaccounts-being-taken-is-getting-out-of-hand/

    Not going to bother with the rest.

    Yeah, everything points to a place but it is not a security vulnerability of Trion...

    That link was from months ago.  I believe the point is that we went from hearing nothing about Trion having security issues to having a flood of people report account issues related to unwanted AA packs to the point that Trion had to issue a statement blaming their customers for using passwords on more than one site... which only makes me far more suspicious.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,784
    A company run by humans made a human error. At best I could call them and ask for something to compensate the pain in the butt it was but in no way is it worth flipping out about as they did fix it without being told to. Not sure why this is forum worthy.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283


    Originally posted by reeereeeThat link was from months ago.  I believe the point is that we went from hearing nothing about Trion having security issues to having a flood of people report account issues related to unwanted AA packs to the point that Trion had to issue a statement blaming their customers for using passwords on more than one site... which only makes me far more suspicious.

    The date of the linked thread is irrelevant, unless you want to go on with same logic and imply that at that time, Carbine/NCsoft got "hacked" too.

    If that was true, what does it make a Blizzard of? They are facing similar issues 24/7/365? Do again you stick with the same logic and imply they must be the least secured company out there?


    There is nothing suspicious about it, it's just ignorance.


    Issues like this happen all the time, but breaches of large companies like that not so much. The source for the account info is elsewhere, where it is much easier to obtain.


    Put aside your agenda and use your head...

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,784
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghabbo

    Well, that's your opinion and I respect that (I do not agree, of course).

     

     

    For me the Russian incident is something totally unrelated to this. In any case, why we didn't hear about WoD, C.R.E.E.D, Plex, or ESO Imperial Editions purchases? Again, everything points to a security vulnerability.

     


     

    Are they?

    First hit on google:
    https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92675-hackingaccounts-being-taken-is-getting-out-of-hand/

    Not going to bother with the rest.

    Yeah, everything points to a place but it is not a security vulnerability of Trion...

    That link was from months ago.  I believe the point is that we went from hearing nothing about Trion having security issues to having a flood of people report account issues related to unwanted AA packs to the point that Trion had to issue a statement blaming their customers for using passwords on more than one site... which only makes me far more suspicious.

    Im an IT guy and let me tell you, passwords and users is the #1 pain in the butt. Using the same password on everything is a huge problem and when you do, its not the game companies fault your account got hacked its the customers fault. Your game account should have a unique password thats hard to hack. Dont make your email easy to hack as well as thats how you reset password. My email account has somewhere around 20 char password. If your forum password is the same as your game account, hackers will hack the forum and get your email addy and password and then get into your game with ease. So much easier then hacking the game company.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by Aparition
    Originally posted by BlackWatch

    Actually, Trion did something similar to me a while back.  I was charged for RIFT expansions (I had 2 accounts).  I've been subbed to the game since launch and never cancelled my account.  I was (without my knowledge or permission/consent) charged for the expansions.  

    I put in a customer service ticket and nothing came of it.  

    I'm still attempting to get my money back, as I haven't logged into the game in quite some time.  (I keep thinking that I 'might'go back to RIFT, but just can't bring myself to to do it.)

    im gonna give them benefit of the doubt, im still pissed that i goto get a new card, but i wanna see if the money gets credited back, if not i open a dispute within my bank, i dont regret paying to play rift back in the day, but to hold info, and to use it to charge someone for a new game from that same company is pretty rude.

    Taken from: http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/08/26/archeage-players-hit-with-unauthorised-transactions-from-trion-worlds 

    Let us start by saying this very clearly: Trion Worlds’ security has not been compromised in any way. There has been absolutely no breach in Trion’s servers.

    What happened in the last few hours is sadly nothing new: Every day, bots obtain user credentials from various unprotected sites around the Internet, build lists of login and passwords, and try them on Trion’s servers (along with many other sites). If players consistently use simple or repeated passwords across different online services, these bots may get access to their accounts. Because of the current momentum around ArcheAge, hundreds of millions of such attempts were made from well over a million different IP addresses in the last few weeks, only a fraction of which ended up being successful today.

    The team has already started providing refunds and all players affected by unwanted charges will be automatically refunded within the next few hours today.

    As previously mentioned, this type of issue is recurrent in the online world and Trion has actually been working on a solution to address this particular problem for a while now. Coincidentally, starting Thursday, we are adding a new security feature to Glyph to help keep player accounts safe: When players log in from a new computer or a place that we haven’t seen them log in from before, they’ll be asked to verify that it really is them logging in, by entering a code emailed to their account’s primary email address.

  • An4thorAn4thor Member Posts: 524

    Love when people accuse others of their mistakes. Don't use the same password everywhere or similar things..Also if there was a breach in their security everyone and my grandma would come to know it.

    It's 2014, how many times breaches of big companies haven't been made public from the complanies themselves or other "sources"? look at Sony and co.

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghabbo

    Well, that's your opinion and I respect that (I do not agree, of course).

     

     

    For me the Russian incident is something totally unrelated to this. In any case, why we didn't hear about WoD, C.R.E.E.D, Plex, or ESO Imperial Editions purchases? Again, everything points to a security vulnerability.

     


     

    Are they?

    First hit on google:
    https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92675-hackingaccounts-being-taken-is-getting-out-of-hand/

    Not going to bother with the rest.

    Yeah, everything points to a place but it is not a security vulnerability of Trion...

    That link was from months ago.  I believe the point is that we went from hearing nothing about Trion having security issues to having a flood of people report account issues related to unwanted AA packs to the point that Trion had to issue a statement blaming their customers for using passwords on more than one site... which only makes me far more suspicious.

    Im an IT guy and let me tell you, passwords and users is the #1 pain in the butt. Using the same password on everything is a huge problem and when you do, its not the game companies fault your account got hacked its the customers fault. Your game account should have a unique password thats hard to hack. Dont make your email easy to hack as well as thats how you reset password. My email account has somewhere around 20 char password. If your forum password is the same as your game account, hackers will hack the forum and get your email addy and password and then get into your game with ease. So much easier then hacking the game company.

    Your password could be 40,000 characters long and still get hacked.  All it takes is time.  

    As for forums like this, best to use a temporary email address to register an account.  No spam.  No compromise.  Ever.

    As for who is getting hacked... if they already have half the puzzle, namely your email info, the password part is the lesser battle to overcome.  Problem is, these game companies like to use your email address as half the puzzle... you're already in a compromised state the moment you set up your account.  None of my employers ever allowed the same login ID for so long, ever.  By design, you're already doing it wrong the moment you buy the game.  Developer put that into motion, not you.

  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by reeereee

     

    That link was from months ago.  I believe the point is that we went from hearing nothing about Trion having security issues to having a flood of people report account issues related to unwanted AA packs to the point that Trion had to issue a statement blaming their customers for using passwords on more than one site... which only makes me far more suspicious.


     

    The date of the linked thread is irrelevant, unless you want to go on with same logic and imply that at that time, Carbine/NCsoft got "hacked" too.

    If that was true, what does it make a Blizzard of? They are facing similar issues 24/7/365? Do again you stick with the same logic and imply they must be the least secured company out there?


    There is nothing suspicious about it, it's just ignorance.


    Issues like this happen all the time, but breaches of large companies like that not so much. The source for the account info is elsewhere, where it is much easier to obtain.


    Put aside your agenda and use your head...

    You do realize there is a difference between a few people complaining about hacked accounts in an internal forum shortly after launch and a company getting so many reports of hacking they felt the need to make a press release?  Just because you can use google doesn't make you smart.

     

    There are really only two possibilities, either someone who had a ton of hacked accounts suddenly realized they could charge AA packs to the credit card on the account or Trion got compromised somewhere.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283


    Originally posted by reeereee

    There are really only two possibilities, either someone who had a ton of hacked accounts suddenly realized they could charge AA packs to the credit card on the account or Trion got compromised somewhere.

    And the first possibility is the most sensible one. For all the reasons pointed out above.


    Also, there was never a press release about the issue, just a forum post by community manager.

    Again, similar issues are happening to everyone, however that does not mean said companies got their security breached.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,784
    Originally posted by Pepeq
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Ghabbo

    Well, that's your opinion and I respect that (I do not agree, of course).

     

     

    For me the Russian incident is something totally unrelated to this. In any case, why we didn't hear about WoD, C.R.E.E.D, Plex, or ESO Imperial Editions purchases? Again, everything points to a security vulnerability.

     


     

    Are they?

    First hit on google:
    https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/92675-hackingaccounts-being-taken-is-getting-out-of-hand/

    Not going to bother with the rest.

    Yeah, everything points to a place but it is not a security vulnerability of Trion...

    That link was from months ago.  I believe the point is that we went from hearing nothing about Trion having security issues to having a flood of people report account issues related to unwanted AA packs to the point that Trion had to issue a statement blaming their customers for using passwords on more than one site... which only makes me far more suspicious.

    Im an IT guy and let me tell you, passwords and users is the #1 pain in the butt. Using the same password on everything is a huge problem and when you do, its not the game companies fault your account got hacked its the customers fault. Your game account should have a unique password thats hard to hack. Dont make your email easy to hack as well as thats how you reset password. My email account has somewhere around 20 char password. If your forum password is the same as your game account, hackers will hack the forum and get your email addy and password and then get into your game with ease. So much easier then hacking the game company.

    Your password could be 40,000 characters long and still get hacked.  All it takes is time.  

    As for forums like this, best to use a temporary email address to register an account.  No spam.  No compromise.  Ever.

    As for who is getting hacked... if they already have half the puzzle, namely your email info, the password part is the lesser battle to overcome.  Problem is, these game companies like to use your email address as half the puzzle... you're already in a compromised state the moment you set up your account.  None of my employers ever allowed the same login ID for so long, ever.  By design, you're already doing it wrong the moment you buy the game.  Developer put that into motion, not you.

    That why for MMOs you should open a unique email addy just for games or use hotmail alias so hackers dont have 1/2 the puzzle. You have to think what make it easy for the hacker and not do just that. Not saying I cant get hacked but most customers make it way to easy for the hackers. The harder it is, the more of a talented hacker it takes to get your account. I like them odds better. 

  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Member UncommonPosts: 409

    People need to do some actual research before they get on a forum and start spewing BS.

     

    http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?32346-Regarding-Reports-of-Unauthorized-Transactions

     

    Right at the top of the ArcheAge forums. Took me about 20 seconds to find.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283


    Originally posted by TheOctagon
    People need to do some actual research before they get on a forum and start spewing BS. http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?32346-Regarding-Reports-of-Unauthorized-Transactions Right at the top of the ArcheAge forums. Took me about 20 seconds to find.

    They know about the notice but their ignorance entitle them to call it a BS and start their own senseless theories...

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,917
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by grimal
     

    So, please leave the rosy colored glasses at the door and engage in some real conversation here.   If you want to live a fantasy, so be it.  But there is a lot of crappy stuff going on and if someone experiences it, they have every right to voice it if it concerns an MMORPG and their experiences with that company.

     

    But it's not a real conversation. If it was it would have started with an actual fact. This is just hypothetical accusations and bullshit stories accusing a real company that seems to be trying to help people who have had problems with a third party getting access to their accounts.

    Well yeah, that's my point really.  Am I wearing rose colored glasses if I don't view every corporate entity or political figure as part of the evil conspiracy to hold me down and cheat me blind?

    Focusing on just this one issue at this one company, I see no evidence that Trion deliberately set up to defraud their customer base by charging them for something they didn't order, heck, even when it happened to me in May I gave them a benefit of the doubt that it was a billing or system error.

    I know others may think this naive of me, but I actually give my fellow man the benefit of the doubt, I don't call them liars at the first opportunity, I don't assume they are all trying to screw me over, and I especially don't lose a lot of sleep worrying about those who might.

    Sure, I take reasonable precautions to protect myself and my family, and carve an honest living for myself in the world and in games. 

    Yeah, we live in a fallen world, but there's still so much that's amazing about it, and it sure beats the alternative.  image

    Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as harsh as I did.  I apologize for that.

    It just irritates me that sometimes people come to these boards to report suspicious activity and everyone jumps on them essentially blaming the victim. 

    On a personal side, I am going through some rather dubious charges from my bank that really should be illegal and maybe that is what fueled me.

    Again, I apologize.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Aparition
    checked my bank account 2 days ago, and it seems Trion helped themselves to 149.99 for an Archage pack that i never ordered, someone is using my details from when i payed and played rift like 5 years ago, i figured someone had hacked them, got my details and charged money to me, first thing i did was cancel that card, and was preparing to dispure it with my bank, but had to wait till the transaction had fully cleared before doing so, then i started getting a bunch of emails today saying error in completing your order from trion, like 6 emails in total today, the last being they have issued a refund for my purchase, that i never ever made... im still waiting to see if my bank account is credited with the money, and the added hassle of cancelling my card and having to wait for a new one to be issued has made me want to play Archeage even more now.... /sarcasm

    That doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me at all, just plain old incompetence.

    They probably messed up when someone else ordered the pack and thought it was you. Large companies don't really steal from customers that way, they might try to trick you into order stuff but that is it. If hundreds of people made this complaint they would be in real problems with the law.

    Annoying of course, but hardly done on purpose.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,171
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Way too many people passing uninformed judgments based on facts they they completely fabricated.

    So, "Business as usual." right? image

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    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283


    Originally posted by reeereee

    You do realize there is a difference between a few people complaining about hacked accounts in an internal forum shortly after launch and a company getting so many reports of hacking they felt the need to make a press release?

    There is no difference there.

    Methods remain the same. It is just a matter of the scope and successfulness of data gathering, and in that regard, malicious sw, phising and bots beat direct attack on every level.


  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by grimal
     

    So, please leave the rosy colored glasses at the door and engage in some real conversation here.   If you want to live a fantasy, so be it.  But there is a lot of crappy stuff going on and if someone experiences it, they have every right to voice it if it concerns an MMORPG and their experiences with that company.

     

    But it's not a real conversation. If it was it would have started with an actual fact. This is just hypothetical accusations and bullshit stories accusing a real company that seems to be trying to help people who have had problems with a third party getting access to their accounts.

    Well yeah, that's my point really.  Am I wearing rose colored glasses if I don't view every corporate entity or political figure as part of the evil conspiracy to hold me down and cheat me blind?

    Focusing on just this one issue at this one company, I see no evidence that Trion deliberately set up to defraud their customer base by charging them for something they didn't order, heck, even when it happened to me in May I gave them a benefit of the doubt that it was a billing or system error.

    I know others may think this naive of me, but I actually give my fellow man the benefit of the doubt, I don't call them liars at the first opportunity, I don't assume they are all trying to screw me over, and I especially don't lose a lot of sleep worrying about those who might.

    Sure, I take reasonable precautions to protect myself and my family, and carve an honest living for myself in the world and in games. 

    Yeah, we live in a fallen world, but there's still so much that's amazing about it, and it sure beats the alternative.  image

    Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as harsh as I did.  I apologize for that.

    It just irritates me that sometimes people come to these boards to report suspicious activity and everyone jumps on them essentially blaming the victim. 

    On a personal side, I am going through some rather dubious charges from my bank that really should be illegal and maybe that is what fueled me.

    Again, I apologize.

    If people actually had evidence that showed them doing something illegal, people here would probably freak out about it. Most of the time...every time... it's some guy saying he's an IT expert so he knows his system is clean and you can clearly see the hitler mustache drawn on trion so they must be evil....kind of hard to not jump all over them when they do that.

  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Your accusation that game companies would intentionaly try to rip off their customers for $150 is ludicrous.

    No game company would do this - as it's a loss of revenue (chargeback fees) and a loss of customer - also it's completely illegal.

    .... 

    Exactly.  Never had and problem ever. Well, but with Aion. There I was simply unable to cancel my sub, contacted support several times .... never got any response .... at the end have been forced to change my credit card revoking old one to make them stop sucking my money. And as I remember many had similar experience at that time.

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