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Labor points, my reason for not wanting to play.

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  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,863
    Originally posted by jesteralways
     

    Perhaps you will like to play the original korean version of the game? you know in korea players are perfectly happy to play their pay2win AA and keeping it lively at the same time. It appears to me that western market is filled with people who wants everything for free and don't want to spend a dime on a game which actually brings what the players "want" on table. 

    1. i want a open world, no phasing, no instancing.

    2. i want meaningful owpvp

    3. i want player driven economy

    4. i want meaningful crafting

    5. i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill

    6. i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.

    7. i want all of those above for free of cost, i don't wanna pay you  a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.

    7. If I have all of above I would be more than happy to pay a fixed monthly fee , B2P or fair F2P price

    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players. 

    There I fixed it for you



  • An4thorAn4thor Member Posts: 524
    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    Originally posted by jesteralways
     

    Perhaps you will like to play the original korean version of the game? you know in korea players are perfectly happy to play their pay2win AA and keeping it lively at the same time. It appears to me that western market is filled with people who wants everything for free and don't want to spend a dime on a game which actually brings what the players "want" on table. 

    1. i want a open world, no phasing, no instancing.

    2. i want meaningful owpvp

    3. i want player driven economy

    4. i want meaningful crafting

    5. i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill

    6. i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.

    7. i want all of those above for free of cost, i don't wanna pay you  a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.

    7. If I have all of above I would be more than happy to pay a fixed monthly fee , B2P or fair F2P price

    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players. 

    There I fixed it for you

    B2p wouldn't work for this game because of housing. A monthly fee is another deterrent for players to hoard land without using it, leading to ghost towns. Would p2p work? Yes, the game was developed with that in mind. But westerners don't like p2p anymore, unless it's a game called WoW.

    What is not fair about AA f2p price? In the last livestream they hinted to look at rift prices; which means 15$/13€ monthly. It's the same if not cheaper than other MMOs.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,279
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
    I don't know anything about the game because it never caught my attention or interest, but it sounds like you guys just want instant gratification instead of having to work for something. That is exactly the problem with this genre these days.

     Ehhh... did you actually read the OP or on the Labor Point system?

    This has absolutely nothing to do with Instant gratification.

    The Labor Point system was implemented into the game from the ground up as pure cash grab in the eastern market.

    The Whole argument that it´s to protect the ingame economy is just a farce of an excuse! Because if that "really" was the intention, you would only see it on node harvesting... to limit resource supply and not offering LP pots in the cash shop.

    The truth is that LP use is forced upon you everywhere. Every loot bag requires LP to inspect. Every friggin´ quest reward costs LP to inspect and able to equip!

    It´s just the standard run of the mill pay walls you see in every other eastern F2P MMO and mobile game these days.

    TRION tries to put some lipstick on this piggy beast, by offering a patron membership. Which will do if you are mostly combat / PVP oriented. But for People that are Heavily into crafting, farming, building house, etc.... even Patron status will not be enough, as you will burn through LP so fast it´s not even funny.

    Sadly there are a lot of People that dumped over 100 bucks in this game for the Alpha package and as such unwilling to see the facts, hardcore defending their Investment with their every last breath.

    Just give it a month after the real release here in the west..... then reality will start to sink in.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Then they shouldn't call the game a FREE TO PLAY Game. Call it as it is - a sub game CS cash grab.

    Can you play the game without paying?  Yes you can.  It is,therefore, a free to play game.  Are those that choose to play for free saddled with restrictions?  Yes they are.  That does not negate the fact that it is free to play.  It is free to play ... with restrictions!  If you don't want to be inconvenienced with restrictions then you must subscribe.  Not that difficult really.

    You'd think it wasn't all that complicated but years later and people still seem to think " If I find anything in the game I want and it cost money the game isn't free!!!" a valid argument against it.

    The best free to play systems are not the games that give everything for free. It's the games that show you it has things worth paying for.

    No, you can't play for free. You can login to the servers, but you can't play. I ran out of labor points. All I could do was farm mobs and open some quest rewards. I didn't do the quests necessarily because they were my first choice, but because that was the only other activity I could participate in other than just killing mobs. When I logged off I think I had like 60LP.

     

    This game combines the worst implementations of sub, cash shop, and energy system (labor points). It tries to monetize you at every single angle.

    You downloaded the game, played and spent no money but it's not free to play ? If you don't like the system don't pay for it. Not every mmo has to use the model you deem appropriate. Hell most of the games on your list I wont touch because of the way their " free" works...so obviously one size doesn't fit all. This one, like SWTOR wants people to pay a sub but lets you try the game to decide if it's for you or not. They offer ways around it if you're willing to work for it. I don't see a problem with their chosen payment model...I have lots of issues with the game though.

     

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534

    I remember years ago when P2W actually meant pay to win.  Its thrown around far too liberally to cast aspersions on any game that doesn't provide all amenities free of charge.

    Archeage is by no means P2W because 2 months from now any good player can smoke players that payed hundreds of dollars the first month trying to get server firsts.  Pay for advantage, maybe, but ultimately you can pay 15 to drop your house permanently with 1 month of double LP and still enjoy everything the game has to offer free of charge after that.  Sure, you're going to be playing catch up for a while, but as long as you don't aspire to be the Donald Trump of your server or the first player with a galleon, you will be just fine.


  • xenoracexenorace Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
    I don't know anything about the game because it never caught my attention or interest, but it sounds like you guys just want instant gratification instead of having to work for something. That is exactly the problem with this genre these days.

     Ehhh... did you actually read the OP or on the Labor Point system?

    This has absolutely nothing to do with Instant gratification.

    The Labor Point system was implemented into the game from the ground up as pure cash grab in the eastern market.

    The Whole argument that it´s to protect the ingame economy is just a farce of an excuse! Because if that "really" was the intention, you would only see it on node harvesting... to limit resource supply and not offering LP pots in the cash shop.

    The truth is that LP use is forced upon you everywhere. Every loot bag requires LP to inspect. Every friggin´ quest reward costs LP to inspect and able to equip!

    It´s just the standard run of the mill pay walls you see in every other eastern F2P MMO and mobile game these days.

    TRION tries to put some lipstick on this piggy beast, by offering a patron membership. Which will do if you are mostly combat / PVP oriented. But for People that are Heavily into crafting, farming, building house, etc.... even Patron status will not be enough, as you will burn through LP so fast it´s not even funny.

    Sadly there are a lot of People that dumped over 100 bucks in this game for the Alpha package and as such unwilling to see the facts, hardcore defending their Investment with their every last breath.

    Just give it a month after the real release here in the west..... then reality will start to sink in.

    The man makes a point.

    Trion realizes this point and I have read they are intending to make certain changes where they can make money, but not make the game feel as if you need these LP pots as much as the Eastern market.

    S.C.I.F.I
    <Sights, Clouded, In, False, Illusions>

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    labor points was the nail in the coffin for me, although not the major reason. I could live with LP, there are other things in the game that didnt agree with me.

    That said, the REASON labor points offended me is a bit different then most people. 

    I am completely and totally exhausted of games that involve violence. I do not have a moral objection to it in fiction and games I am just fucking tired of it and I am tired of defeding it in games with the larger commuity.

    so a game that actually REWARDS violence over other options I find offensive.

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,284
    Don't worry guys. I'm sure this game will do just as horribly over here as it did in the east.
  • JabasJabas Member UncommonPosts: 1,249
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    labor points was the nail in the coffin for me, although not the major reason. I could live with LP, there are other things in the game that didnt agree with me.

    That said, the REASON labor points offended me is a bit different then most people. 

    I am completely and totally exhausted of games that involve violence. I do not have a moral objection to it in fiction and games I am just fucking tired of it and I am tired of defeding it in games with the larger commuity.

    so a game that actually REWARDS violence over other options I find offensive.

     

    Your point might be intersting if you explain a little deeper.

    What violence are you talking about?

    What rewards?

    How LP are connected to this?

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Originally posted by Jabas
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    labor points was the nail in the coffin for me, although not the major reason. I could live with LP, there are other things in the game that didnt agree with me.

    That said, the REASON labor points offended me is a bit different then most people. 

    I am completely and totally exhausted of games that involve violence. I do not have a moral objection to it in fiction and games I am just fucking tired of it and I am tired of defeding it in games with the larger commuity.

    so a game that actually REWARDS violence over other options I find offensive.

     

    Your point might be intersting if you explain a little deeper.

    What violence are you talking about?

    What rewards?

    How LP are connected to this?

    killing mobs = violence

    killing mobs = no LP use

    all other actions in the game require LP use other than killing mobs and dancing.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    Originally posted by Lokberg
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    I think the telling thing here is you won't find an honest poster who prefers the way labor is used now to the initial system in the early stages of alpha testing before 1.2. Because it changed, and that change wasn't to the benefit of players, but rather to Trion's benefit. 

    I started at cb3 so have no clue how it was before. Maybe they add to change it since lp regen is100% better for patrons and 500% better for ftp then the russian version.

     

    Please enlighten us how it was before.

    The change wasn't improving the regen rates. Don't be dense. What possible reason would I have to complain about if the change in the patch I named made things better for players? That would make my entire statement completely illogical. Are you even attempting to argue from a position of intellectual honesty?

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091
    I won't start playing any pay2win MMORPGs either. Which probably means that I won't play any MMORPG for a loooong time. But who cares? There are enough other good games out there.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by maji
    I won't start playing any pay2win MMORPGs either. Which probably means that I won't play any MMORPG for a loooong time. But who cares? There are enough other good games out there.

     

    Except AA is not Pay2win, it is pay2play without restrictions.  There's a difference.

  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Except AA is not Pay2win, it is pay2play without restrictions.  There's a difference.

    The weird thing with these p2w products and players is that they like to buy win but then they are somehow really shamed to admit that.

    Same thing like cheaters ,they like to cheat but then they say no i didnt.

    weird.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by maji
    I won't start playing any pay2win MMORPGs either. Which probably means that I won't play any MMORPG for a loooong time. But who cares? There are enough other good games out there.

     

    Except AA is not Pay2win, it is pay2play without restrictions.  There's a difference.

    The weird thing with these p2w products and players is that they like to buy win but then they are somehow really shamed to admit that.

    Same thing like cheaters ,they like to cheat but then they say no i didnt.

    weird.

     

     

    An even weirder thing are those that accuse other players of buying a win and calling them cheaters simply because they fail at a game due to not being capable of abiding by the rules of the game. 

  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by maji
    I won't start playing any pay2win MMORPGs either. Which probably means that I won't play any MMORPG for a loooong time. But who cares? There are enough other good games out there.

     

    Except AA is not Pay2win, it is pay2play without restrictions.  There's a difference.

    The weird thing with these p2w products and players is that they like to buy win but then they are somehow really shamed to admit that.

    Same thing like cheaters ,they like to cheat but then they say no i didnt.

    weird.

     

    An even weirder thing are those that accuse other players of buying a win calling them cheaters simply because they fail at a game due to not being capable of abiding by the rules of a game. 

    yeah,its weird.

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • GiffenGiffen Member UncommonPosts: 276
    It appears to me that subscribers shouldn't have any limit to LP (it shouldn't be used at all to do anything if you subscribe).  I'm not sure why subscribers still can't do the same things they can in other games without restriction.
  • GrumbsGrumbs Member UncommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by Giffen
    It appears to me that subscribers shouldn't have any limit to LP (it shouldn't be used at all to do anything if you subscribe).  I'm not sure why subscribers still can't do the same things they can in other games without restriction.

     

    Because they want you to buy Labor Point refills in the marketplace, whether or not you are a subscriber.

    It's a horrible idea and even worse implementation (can't pray to recover your xp lost to death without sufficient Labor Points??  Are you freaking serious???), and it will be one of the most complained about "features" of ArcheAge until it is eliminated or the game dies....

  • ryvendarkryvendark Member Posts: 141
    Subscribers dont need to buy more labor points though. Its a hypothetical forum argument unless you're someone that puts in massive number of hours. In those cases that type of player always "wins" it judt costs them more.
  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173


    Originally posted by Giffen
    It appears to me that subscribers shouldn't have any limit to LP (it shouldn't be used at all to do anything if you subscribe).  I'm not sure why subscribers still can't do the same things they can in other games without restriction.


    From what I've read, the purpose of LP is to slow down progression and keep the economy stable. With an LP cap, limited regen rates and nearly everything using it up, you have to make choices about what to do, which goals to achieve, and plan/prepare to go after them because nothing is achieved quickly.


    Patience and persistence are not qualities fostered by game devs in the last decade, so it rubs players the wrong way to not be able to have what they want right away. If you want the best, whether you buy it or craft it, it's going to take time.

  • JabasJabas Member UncommonPosts: 1,249
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Jabas
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    labor points was the nail in the coffin for me, although not the major reason. I could live with LP, there are other things in the game that didnt agree with me.

    That said, the REASON labor points offended me is a bit different then most people. 

    I am completely and totally exhausted of games that involve violence. I do not have a moral objection to it in fiction and games I am just fucking tired of it and I am tired of defeding it in games with the larger commuity.

    so a game that actually REWARDS violence over other options I find offensive.

     

    Your point might be intersting if you explain a little deeper.

    What violence are you talking about?

    What rewards?

    How LP are connected to this?

    killing mobs = violence

    killing mobs = no LP use

    all other actions in the game require LP use other than killing mobs and dancing.

    Ah ok, i thought it was something more deep, something that i didnt see it in-game that promote violence between players or something like that.

    Anyway, thanks for the answer  image

  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse Member Posts: 394
    Originally posted by Ludwik

    Every MMO has some sort of modified Labor system.

    Dungeon lockouts, Raid Lockouts, Dailies, Monthlies, it's all the same. Heck, even currency in games is similar to Labor as in if you don't have enough of it, there are certain things you can't do or can't acquire.

    While i agree lockouts are equally annoying they are not the same as a Facebook monetization system that restricts you in everything you do. No LP means you can not play the game because there is nothing meaningful to do that costs no LP. It's as simple as that.

    You can't even run around busting illegal farms because it costs LP to harvest plants or kill animals. So in a way it even restricts PvP gameplay.

    NO! Gold is not the same as I can play any other MMORPG fine without having Gold. That statement is ridiculous.

    The only difference between AA and those other games is that it gives you the option to buy a labor pot to speed up the lockout time. Granted, that is an advantage and if that's your beef, that's one I can respect. 

     The Pot and Subscription are meaningless because they are restricted themselves. 

    But let's not pretend that the Labor system is anymore intrusive than any other MMO, if anything it's more forgiving because it does give you the option to buy around it.

    It does not! If it were removed by paying a monthly subscription, then yes. Like with any other F2P game, you get access to the full game unrestricted when you subscribe.

     

  • moonrunnermoonrunner Member Posts: 21
    I have no problem subin, I don't expect to get something for nothing. that said  the first time I can't do something for want of LP I'm off to somewhere else that is happy to provide all aspects of the game for just the monthly sub.
  • GrumbsGrumbs Member UncommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by Jaedor

     


    Originally posted by Giffen
    It appears to me that subscribers shouldn't have any limit to LP (it shouldn't be used at all to do anything if you subscribe).  I'm not sure why subscribers still can't do the same things they can in other games without restriction.

     


    From what I've read, the purpose of LP is to slow down progression and keep the economy stable. With an LP cap, limited regen rates and nearly everything using it up, you have to make choices about what to do, which goals to achieve, and plan/prepare to go after them because nothing is achieved quickly.


    Patience and persistence are not qualities fostered by game devs in the last decade, so it rubs players the wrong way to not be able to have what they want right away. If you want the best, whether you buy it or craft it, it's going to take time.

     

    "you have to make choices" would be true *if* they didn't sell LP refills in the Marketplace.  Since they do, this assertion is right out the window, because the limitations can be circumvented by anyone willing to pay.  Ergo, the limitation exists to get certain types of people to pay.

    Facebook games and certain other "pay to progress faster" types of games have milked the willing, compulsive spender for years now.  There are only so many of these types of people in the world however, and I don't think this game will attract enough of them to succeed.

  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,184
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by maji
    I won't start playing any pay2win MMORPGs either. Which probably means that I won't play any MMORPG for a loooong time. But who cares? There are enough other good games out there.

     

    Except AA is not Pay2win, it is pay2play without restrictions.  There's a difference.

    AA is a FREE TO PLAY game. But it is really pay to win. Why? The more you spend in the CS and by Founders + sub - the easier it is to play. With sub and Founders you can own land - you have to pay taxes UNLESS YOU BYT THE TAX certificate from the CS. Want to sell your land? Well, that is also a CS certificate and you buy 1 for every X amount of gold you are asking for the land. Should I go on?

     

    People can say what ever they want, but this game was a known P2W in Korea when it was released and that is why it is tanking bad there.


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