I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.
I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.
I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.
Fair enough. I think you could tell anyone to not spend money or time on something if it's not something they can handle or enjoy. I don't enjoy linear themepark MMOs, especially those in the last few years. So, I don't spend money or time on them. It's good all around advice.
I am curious, though, OP.
What do you do in Eve? What's the bread and butter of your average gaming session?
What is that list supposed to show? Because half of that stuff they did and the other half was for a single expansion that the players overwhelmingly hated and caused a huge backlash so it wasn't completed.
Not even mentioning that half of that list doesn't have much to do with the actual thread subject.
The general complaint, though, has been consistent for a while now. Friends of mine who are huge fans of EO have said the same thing... CCP never finishes what it starts or, at best, they release it half-assed before moving on to the next "big thing". They've spread themselves too thin, they lack focus, and they don't follow-through on things.
Hell, that very lack of organization and focus is what brought WoD to a halt. It was explained here.
They themselves have acknowledged that they've veered off the path, and need to become more focused and stop trying to go in several directions at the same time. Are you going to argue that CCP themselves are wrong about that, too?
So, really... It's fine if you like the game, and are content with what they've done overall. But to pretend that somehow it's not an issue, or to try and argue that the list given (which builds on a point that *is* related to the direction the discussion has taken in the thread - whether you like it or not) is "not relevant".. is nothing more than white-knighting a game you obviously have a high emotional investment in, and a low tolerance of criticism for.
I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.
I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.
I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.
Not really. They'd be hunted down by "society", not allowed to "dock" at hostile stations, etc.
The only places the anti-social types could find harborage would be in the depths of hostile space - especially in a capitalistic society where an empire runs off of taxation and fees for transactions. In such a world, killing and destroying goods would net you an eviction in the areas you were perpetrating such actions - or 'life in prison" as in live forever? They'd lock you up and/or destroy your clone if at one of their stations.
Net effect of this game:
People with ready access to "warm fuzzy feedback" via griefing others get their rush/rewards each time they cause misery. Meanwhile those who might try to stop them will *NEVER* succeed being as the griefers will nail targets here or there.
So "good behavior" has no reward while causing as much misery is well rewarded in this game world.
That is a bit perverse if you think about it. Few real penalties (and now you don't even have to "rat in lowsec" to get standings back to go grief again) - plenty of "renown" as a griefer and no respect nor recognition for helping.
Why the hell do you think people laughed so hard at that "butterfly effect" video CCP released? The odds of someone helping an unknown stranger in danger in EVE are about on par with flipping a coin and having it land on its edge.
Meanwhile scams, rip-offs and backstabbing are "historic events" in the game where you can gain huge fame by being the biggest jerk you can imagine - such as "Awoxer", named after a player in the game.
Agree ^^ proc got it badly wrong and doesn't even realise it, he talks about the 'fear of griefing' making other activities, when ofc it should be the fear of open pvp or ganking - eve players have forgotten what griefing actually is, and what it is not. Same for ccp by the lions of it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
This is what bored out of their minds old timers do, cost of 1 catalyst is about 2 mil, that is 2 loads of cheapest ore mined with Venture in very short time, versus Orca cost and it is over 600 million.
Now let's analyze video, did you noticed that before Orca kill, one Catalyst fires trough other Catalyst. What kind of BS is that?
Only what matters is locked target, while friendly fire could be used as a tactical advantage.
You can not pilot your ship, only what you can do is orbit in circles objects in certain radius or click like mad on screen to change your direction. Yes, Runescape has exactly same mechanics.
But hey, there is even more, after Concord arrived, did you saw any gankers pods blown up. So gankers kept all their cool stuff like implants.
And even more, as long i know, pods could be docked in same system in any station. Where someone is waiting with new ships.
It is clearly game in to one goal as CCP is known from their connections to goons (aka pirates). And some CCP devs even admitted being members of Goon Federation. At least what game devs could do is be neutral as hell to each side.
Would you like more, here we go. Couple months ago, first i took trial and then subbed, played 2 weeks and i got bored.
There is nothing you can do till you have all needed skills at least at 4, except mining. Because you are forced use crappy equipment and you are constantly low capacitor and energy. Paying a subscription for a year that i could be a underdog, i don't think so.
Ok, players can do missions also and i did till i find missions dull and boring, simply put, no creativity included in to missions. Especially mining missions, they are just simply lame, because ships have horrible pathing.
Same with ratting, aka hunting NPC pirates, it is typical MMO grind. How we all love typical MMO grind, no need answer on that.
As mentioned before, EVE Online is just a spreadsheet with some graphics, Excel is same entertaining. There is nothing in game for monthly subscription fee, only goal in game is destruction.
Congrats CCP, you have been playing Russian roulette for 14 years and now when finally new space themed sci-fi games are scheduled for release, you have nothing to offer than broken game mechanics and destruction.
Edit: Oh and i forgot the funniest thing. Do you know that puny frigate can bump massive battle ship and change it's direction. I am so sad that no video where captain Picard doing triple face palm.
P.S: Sorry for my English, it is not my primary language.
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
The trouble is, while you say you don't want Eve to become a themepark, what your describing yourself as wanting is something that is only associated with the type of gameplay that you find in a Themepark game. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what your goals in Eve online are, as it really sounds like you are drifting, and looking for the game to provide the answers for you, when all CCP do is in effect, provide the tools.
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
Why would you play a sandbox game knowing full well that it is up to you to create the content when you state that "I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others".
You could join a corp like Brave Newbies and do your own thing and when you feel like letting someone else provide the fun jump into one of the many events they do daily. Or join one of the public Twitch fleets that form up. Get a blinged out battlesip and run an incursion or two.....but alas...that takes some type of effort on the players part.
Nothing anyone can post will justify online scamming where real money is involved and the publisher encourages it.
Everything that goes on outside of that in EVE, I say, "Let'em have their fun". It's not for me, but i respect other's right to play such a game and it should be there for them..........minus the potential to be scammed of real money.
Nothing anyone can post will justify online scamming where real money is involved and the publisher encourages it.
Everything that goes on outside of that in EVE, I say, "Let'em have their fun". It's not for me, but i respect other's right to play such a game and it should be there for them..........minus the potential to be scammed of real money.
Don't get it twisted. Real money is not involved.
The risks are clearly outlined from the get go and anyone with half a brain can dodge a scam. I'd say the only one that people will consistently fall for are recruitment scams by Goonswarm Federation members.
But even then the stories of their scams are all over reddit, so really anyone who takes the time to research EVE a little will know how to avoid those scams aswell.
No one is scammed out of the money in their wallet or bank account. It's crazy misinformation like this that drives me up the wall with these threads.
All the crazy stories where a corp or person are robbed of a ton of items and isk are not scams that impacted anyones real life money. They just use the current ingame price of PLEX (currently ~800m) and the rl price of $20 to try and show a real life equivalent in money to make the impact of the theft seem larger. But when someone loses $8000 dollars worth of stuff, it's not $8000 that they put into the game. It's just a need to put a dollar amount on stuff for shock effect.
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
The trouble is, while you say you don't want Eve to become a themepark, what your describing yourself as wanting is something that is only associated with the type of gameplay that you find in a Themepark game. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what your goals in Eve online are, as it really sounds like you are drifting, and looking for the game to provide the answers for you, when all CCP do is in effect, provide the tools.
Not necessarily. I read his post as wanting a bit of context to make him believe in the fiction.
Just because somebody is wanting a bit of context, a bit of something to help them with their investment in the fiction, doesn't mean they want a hand-held themepark.
See, the thing that I'm disappointed in, more than anything, is how there's this beautiful fictional universe, filled with detail and background, that absolutely nobody seems interested in.
Even CCP seems embarrassed with things like the Empires and the intrigue around the various organizations there...mainly because the players want EVE to be about real life drama rather than about the fiction drama.
As a result, players who want to dive into an alternate reality don't really have a place in EVE...it all degenerates into 4Chan with stunning graphics.
Damn shame, too, because it was beautiful--artistically speaking--and thought-provoking from a background perspective.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
The trouble is, while you say you don't want Eve to become a themepark, what your describing yourself as wanting is something that is only associated with the type of gameplay that you find in a Themepark game. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what your goals in Eve online are, as it really sounds like you are drifting, and looking for the game to provide the answers for you, when all CCP do is in effect, provide the tools.
Not necessarily. I read his post as wanting a bit of context to make him believe in the fiction.
Just because somebody is wanting a bit of context, a bit of something to help them with their investment in the fiction, doesn't mean they want a hand-held themepark.
See, the thing that I'm disappointed in, more than anything, is how there's this beautiful fictional universe, filled with detail and background, that absolutely nobody seems interested in.
Even CCP seems embarrassed with things like the Empires and the intrigue around the various organizations there...mainly because the players want EVE to be about real life drama rather than about the fiction drama.
As a result, players who want to dive into an alternate reality don't really have a place in EVE...it all degenerates into 4Chan with stunning graphics.
Damn shame, too, because it was beautiful--artistically speaking--and thought-provoking from a background perspective.
Hyperbole towards the end ruined it... CVA and Providence bloc is all that needs to be said though if pressed you could also look at the EVE in-game news feed and see RPers doing their thing quite happily (hunting down rogues or supporting them, running blockades, aiding relief missions,etc, all events guided though not all with a fixed ending).
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
The trouble is, while you say you don't want Eve to become a themepark, what your describing yourself as wanting is something that is only associated with the type of gameplay that you find in a Themepark game. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what your goals in Eve online are, as it really sounds like you are drifting, and looking for the game to provide the answers for you, when all CCP do is in effect, provide the tools.
Not necessarily. I read his post as wanting a bit of context to make him believe in the fiction.
Just because somebody is wanting a bit of context, a bit of something to help them with their investment in the fiction, doesn't mean they want a hand-held themepark.
See, the thing that I'm disappointed in, more than anything, is how there's this beautiful fictional universe, filled with detail and background, that absolutely nobody seems interested in.
Even CCP seems embarrassed with things like the Empires and the intrigue around the various organizations there...mainly because the players want EVE to be about real life drama rather than about the fiction drama.
As a result, players who want to dive into an alternate reality don't really have a place in EVE...it all degenerates into 4Chan with stunning graphics.
Damn shame, too, because it was beautiful--artistically speaking--and thought-provoking from a background perspective.
I think early in the game you saw much more players taking part in EVE's backstory or making corps that support the various fictional NPC factions in the game because they wanted a part in the lore. At some point in EVE's development the player made factions started to overshadow the fictional ones and it pretty much became a world where the devs put us in here and we create the stories because the human stories are so much more dramatic and interesting than the NPC ones.
NPCs dont get mad, or want to give you some payback, people do. That's the identity that's been shaped over the years and I think the player base and the devs thought it was the best possible direction to go and no other game was doing it. That's possibly the main draw of the game too, that it is its own world that doesn't have the kind of rules the real world does or even other games.
The freedom of the game makes you keep logging in and the social aspect of it in terms of corps and alliances you have loyalty or pride towards. There is a real feeling of pride if you are in a decent group that everyone in the game has heard the name of, alternatively when you are starting out and you are with a group of nobodies it gives you something to aspire towards. EVE isn't a solo game that just dishes you NPC content with other people in the background, if that's the way you try to play it then you are pretty much missing the point of the game.
Its also the only game with a permanent kill-loss record which is pretty neat, not just for the hilarious 4chan-like comments on big ticket losses but also because it allows you to do research on other players to assess how dangerous they might be.
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
The trouble is, while you say you don't want Eve to become a themepark, what your describing yourself as wanting is something that is only associated with the type of gameplay that you find in a Themepark game. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what your goals in Eve online are, as it really sounds like you are drifting, and looking for the game to provide the answers for you, when all CCP do is in effect, provide the tools.
Not necessarily. I read his post as wanting a bit of context to make him believe in the fiction.
Just because somebody is wanting a bit of context, a bit of something to help them with their investment in the fiction, doesn't mean they want a hand-held themepark.
See, the thing that I'm disappointed in, more than anything, is how there's this beautiful fictional universe, filled with detail and background, that absolutely nobody seems interested in.
Even CCP seems embarrassed with things like the Empires and the intrigue around the various organizations there...mainly because the players want EVE to be about real life drama rather than about the fiction drama.
As a result, players who want to dive into an alternate reality don't really have a place in EVE...it all degenerates into 4Chan with stunning graphics.
Damn shame, too, because it was beautiful--artistically speaking--and thought-provoking from a background perspective.
I think early in the game you saw much more players taking part in EVE's backstory or making corps that support the various fictional NPC factions in the game because they wanted a part in the lore. At some point in EVE's development the player made factions started to overshadow the fictional ones and it pretty much became a world where the devs put us in here and we create the stories because the human stories are so much more dramatic and interesting than the NPC ones.
NPCs dont get mad, or want to give you some payback, people do. That's the identity that's been shaped over the years and I think the player base and the devs thought it was the best possible direction to go and no other game was doing it. That's possibly the main draw of the game too, that it is its own world that doesn't have the kind of rules the real world does or even other games.
The freedom of the game makes you keep logging in and the social aspect of it in terms of corps and alliances you have loyalty or pride towards. There is a real feeling of pride if you are in a decent group that everyone in the game has heard the name of, alternatively when you are starting out and you are with a group of nobodies it gives you something to aspire towards. EVE isn't a solo game that just dishes you NPC content with other people in the background, if that's the way you try to play it then you are pretty much missing the point of the game.
Its also the only game with a permanent kill-loss record which is pretty neat, not just for the hilarious 4chan-like comments on big ticket losses but also because it allows you to do research on other players to assess how dangerous they might be.
Some of the player base over the years, at least. The loudest players over the years, at least.
But I'm thinking about all of those folks over the years who wanted a true, virtual reality where they could delve into a compelling fiction that comes from mature motives. I read on Massively that roughly 90% of new players quit within six months...apparently the player-made environment you all established appeals to 10% of folks, but not the rest. Fair enough. You are what you are. But what you have created, as a community, is too boring and typical of the jocular online culture they see in games today, and folks like me just don't find that interesting.
Can you see, perhaps, why some people might think that Goon vs BoB drama is lame, and how Amarr vs Matar drama is more compelling? I mean, Goon vs BoB drama is just a bunch of manchildish prattle, when you get right down to it. Eroica1 BS is just...sad. It doesn't show how great, creative and thought-provoking you all are. It just looks like a sad group of folks who have no imagination or personality.
I mean, if you are going to get all worked up over online BS, it might as well be BS that's compelling and embodies values that are greater than yourselves. That's why the EVE fiction is important, at least for me. Because SomethingAwful and powerclan values really don't stand for much, other than "look at how cool we are" and "ROFL."
I want something more interesting than that.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Can you see, perhaps, why some people might think that Goon vs BoB drama is lame, and how Amarr vs Matar drama is more compelling? I mean, Goon vs BoB drama is just a bunch of manchildish prattle, when you get right down to it. Eroica1 BS is just...sad. It doesn't show how great, creative and thought-provoking you all are. It just looks like a sad group of folks who have no imagination or personality.
I mean, if you are going to get all worked up over online BS, it might as well be BS that's compelling and embodies values that are greater than yourselves. That's why the EVE fiction is important, at least for me. Because SomethingAwful and powerclan values really don't stand for much, other than "look at how cool we are" and "ROFL."
I want something more interesting than that.
This isn't just an EVE problem. It's an internet problem. All the kind of utopian dreams of what the internet could do (of which I think early MMOs were a part) tend to go out the window when 4chan and SomethingAwful and the like get involved in anything. Stuff like EVE doesn't create the cesspool it just reflects the majority of the internet back at itself.
How do you fix it? How do you socially engineer these people to be decent online despite their every instinct which seems to be to the contrary while still giving them freedom to actually build their own stories or drive the narration in the ones you've created? It may be impossible but if some dev figures it out they're going to have a great game .
Can you see, perhaps, why some people might think that Goon vs BoB drama is lame, and how Amarr vs Matar drama is more compelling? I mean, Goon vs BoB drama is just a bunch of manchildish prattle, when you get right down to it. Eroica1 BS is just...sad. It doesn't show how great, creative and thought-provoking you all are. It just looks like a sad group of folks who have no imagination or personality.
I mean, if you are going to get all worked up over online BS, it might as well be BS that's compelling and embodies values that are greater than yourselves. That's why the EVE fiction is important, at least for me. Because SomethingAwful and powerclan values really don't stand for much, other than "look at how cool we are" and "ROFL."
I want something more interesting than that.
This isn't just an EVE problem. It's an internet problem. All the kind of utopian dreams of what the internet could do (of which I think early MMOs were a part) tend to go out the window when 4chan and SomethingAwful and the like get involved in anything. Stuff like EVE doesn't create the cesspool it just reflects the majority of the internet back at itself.
How do you fix it? How do you socially engineer these people to be decent online despite their every instinct which seems to be to the contrary while still giving them freedom to actually build their own stories or drive the narration in the ones you've created? It may be impossible but if some dev figures it out they're going to have a great game .
Only way is the way real world societies do it. Punishments have to be worse or perceived as worse than the benefit of the action.
I've been playing on an off since 2004, having between 1 and 4 accounts subscribed at any given time. I'm more or less a "solo" player. I usually play on 1 or 2 characters at a time and chat with people in various channels, but I don't often actually fleet up with other people. Fleeting with other players is too much waiting around and herding cats. I spend the vast majority of my time in hisec. I have never been griefed, suicide ganked, scammed, or continuously harassed by anyone. I have a hard time believing the posts that claim that these sorts of things are standard experiences in EVE. It only becomes standard experience for people who fail to learn how to play the game, and proceed to throw a fit over it, I suspect. I suspect that people posting these "don't play EVE!" horror tales on this forum actually invited abuse through their actions somehow... being mouthy in local chat for instance, after things don't go their way, instead of trying to learn from their mistakes.
EVE is simply not forgiving. If you are an idiot, then yeah, you probably will not have a fun time. If you have a modicum of critical thinking ability and the ability to learn and plan ahead, you will probably be fine. It's people who have this bizarre sense of entitlement and refusal to learn how the game works that end up getting burned. Sorry, this isn't a single player game. You can't just grind mobs and asteroids 24/7 and expect to be left alone by the other players. Some people will want to interact with you in a way you may not like. Hopefully you have already taken the steps necessary to thwart them. You are only a victim in EVE if you choose to be one. If you just derp around expecting the game to take care of you 24/7... well... this brings us back to learn how to play the fricken game!
CODE is a joke. It's easy enough to fly a properly tanked Procurer or Skiff and give them a hard time. Goons in hisec are a joke. Its Hulkageddon? Gee, maybe fly something other than a Hulk this week? Duh. They're burning Jita today? Oh no! You have to go one day without visiting one of the many trade hubs, maybe? Duh. Jita is an overcrowded cesspit every friggen day anyway, you don't exactly hang out there all day sitting in front of the 4-4 station do you? Common sense, people.
Don't expect EVE to play like Everquest or World of Warcraft. It's its own game. Learn the rules and you'll be fine.
I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.
I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.
I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.
I don't recommend people play because of the metagame, because of the bias CCP shows towards certain elements of the game, because of the inability to post on the forums due to the censorship of 'special' ISD associated with alliances / corporations in game and because of CCP's inability to fix its tragically broken sovereign system, ease and low cost of suicide ganking against very costly targets and CCP's inability to prevent out of game harassment by players in game.
Another issue which is worth noting are the developer run events which disproportionately favour certain alliances with massive drops worth hundreds of billions of isk, many of which have current and former devs as leaders or high ranking officers.
Due to the above EvE is not worth paying money for as its far to skewed in favour of certain entities in game. The gameplay itself, were it properly managed is a lot of fun, which is why I stuck with it for 11 years.
Comments
I really hate the term carebear...
So what if I don't get my jollies running around pvp'ing everyone. That's lame.
Still going though. Been busy with work but still find time most days to peak in and run a mission.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Fair enough. I think you could tell anyone to not spend money or time on something if it's not something they can handle or enjoy. I don't enjoy linear themepark MMOs, especially those in the last few years. So, I don't spend money or time on them. It's good all around advice.
I am curious, though, OP.
What do you do in Eve? What's the bread and butter of your average gaming session?
The general complaint, though, has been consistent for a while now. Friends of mine who are huge fans of EO have said the same thing... CCP never finishes what it starts or, at best, they release it half-assed before moving on to the next "big thing". They've spread themselves too thin, they lack focus, and they don't follow-through on things.
Hell, that very lack of organization and focus is what brought WoD to a halt. It was explained here.
They themselves have acknowledged that they've veered off the path, and need to become more focused and stop trying to go in several directions at the same time. Are you going to argue that CCP themselves are wrong about that, too?
So, really... It's fine if you like the game, and are content with what they've done overall. But to pretend that somehow it's not an issue, or to try and argue that the list given (which builds on a point that *is* related to the direction the discussion has taken in the thread - whether you like it or not) is "not relevant".. is nothing more than white-knighting a game you obviously have a high emotional investment in, and a low tolerance of criticism for.
Not really. They'd be hunted down by "society", not allowed to "dock" at hostile stations, etc.
The only places the anti-social types could find harborage would be in the depths of hostile space - especially in a capitalistic society where an empire runs off of taxation and fees for transactions. In such a world, killing and destroying goods would net you an eviction in the areas you were perpetrating such actions - or 'life in prison" as in live forever? They'd lock you up and/or destroy your clone if at one of their stations.
Net effect of this game:
People with ready access to "warm fuzzy feedback" via griefing others get their rush/rewards each time they cause misery. Meanwhile those who might try to stop them will *NEVER* succeed being as the griefers will nail targets here or there.
So "good behavior" has no reward while causing as much misery is well rewarded in this game world.
That is a bit perverse if you think about it. Few real penalties (and now you don't even have to "rat in lowsec" to get standings back to go grief again) - plenty of "renown" as a griefer and no respect nor recognition for helping.
Why the hell do you think people laughed so hard at that "butterfly effect" video CCP released? The odds of someone helping an unknown stranger in danger in EVE are about on par with flipping a coin and having it land on its edge.
Meanwhile scams, rip-offs and backstabbing are "historic events" in the game where you can gain huge fame by being the biggest jerk you can imagine - such as "Awoxer", named after a player in the game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I currently play Eve and have on and off for the better part of five years.
Ultimately what is awesome about Eve is the freedom, opportunity and realistic economy. You can do virtually anything.
What is horrible about Eve is that CCP has almost exclusively excluded any pure content updates in literally years. There have been balance passes, revamps, new items etc but there has been nothing that provides a purpose.
They (being CCP) almost exclusively rely on player created content/drama/events. While that can be fun some of the time, it sometimes gives people no real purpose to play the game. I love the freedom that Eve allows but having to create engagement almost 100% of time or grind the same missions over and over and over again (there are only so many times you want to save the damsel) gets old.
Now people will say "Eve is what you make it" or "You have no motivation/imagination" but sometimes I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others. That's somewhat the purpose of paying for entertainment. When I watch a movie to unwind it's to enjoy some leisure time vs being the one standing up all the time acting out the scenes of the movie in my living room.
While I never want Eve to become a theme park, it needs something that people with no desire to conquer areas of space can engage themselves in. Right now for me it's just increasing my isk balance but what does another 1B mean when you already have 100B? Nothing at all.
As an example this video:
This is what bored out of their minds old timers do, cost of 1 catalyst is about 2 mil, that is 2 loads of cheapest ore mined with Venture in very short time, versus Orca cost and it is over 600 million.
Now let's analyze video, did you noticed that before Orca kill, one Catalyst fires trough other Catalyst. What kind of BS is that?
Only what matters is locked target, while friendly fire could be used as a tactical advantage.
You can not pilot your ship, only what you can do is orbit in circles objects in certain radius or click like mad on screen to change your direction. Yes, Runescape has exactly same mechanics.
But hey, there is even more, after Concord arrived, did you saw any gankers pods blown up. So gankers kept all their cool stuff like implants.
And even more, as long i know, pods could be docked in same system in any station. Where someone is waiting with new ships.
It is clearly game in to one goal as CCP is known from their connections to goons (aka pirates). And some CCP devs even admitted being members of Goon Federation. At least what game devs could do is be neutral as hell to each side.
Would you like more, here we go. Couple months ago, first i took trial and then subbed, played 2 weeks and i got bored.
There is nothing you can do till you have all needed skills at least at 4, except mining. Because you are forced use crappy equipment and you are constantly low capacitor and energy. Paying a subscription for a year that i could be a underdog, i don't think so.
Ok, players can do missions also and i did till i find missions dull and boring, simply put, no creativity included in to missions. Especially mining missions, they are just simply lame, because ships have horrible pathing.
Same with ratting, aka hunting NPC pirates, it is typical MMO grind. How we all love typical MMO grind, no need answer on that.
As mentioned before, EVE Online is just a spreadsheet with some graphics, Excel is same entertaining. There is nothing in game for monthly subscription fee, only goal in game is destruction.
Congrats CCP, you have been playing Russian roulette for 14 years and now when finally new space themed sci-fi games are scheduled for release, you have nothing to offer than broken game mechanics and destruction.
Edit: Oh and i forgot the funniest thing. Do you know that puny frigate can bump massive battle ship and change it's direction. I am so sad that no video where captain Picard doing triple face palm.
P.S: Sorry for my English, it is not my primary language.
The trouble is, while you say you don't want Eve to become a themepark, what your describing yourself as wanting is something that is only associated with the type of gameplay that you find in a Themepark game. Maybe you need to re-evaluate what your goals in Eve online are, as it really sounds like you are drifting, and looking for the game to provide the answers for you, when all CCP do is in effect, provide the tools.
Why would you play a sandbox game knowing full well that it is up to you to create the content when you state that "I want to jump into something that has been planned, thought out and executed by others".
You could join a corp like Brave Newbies and do your own thing and when you feel like letting someone else provide the fun jump into one of the many events they do daily. Or join one of the public Twitch fleets that form up. Get a blinged out battlesip and run an incursion or two.....but alas...that takes some type of effort on the players part.
Nothing anyone can post will justify online scamming where real money is involved and the publisher encourages it.
Everything that goes on outside of that in EVE, I say, "Let'em have their fun". It's not for me, but i respect other's right to play such a game and it should be there for them..........minus the potential to be scammed of real money.
Why do you even post here. Its obvious Eve isn't the game for you. For that matter, no sand box game would be for you. Move on already.
FYI, been playing for over a year now and not once been scammed.
Don't get it twisted. Real money is not involved.
The risks are clearly outlined from the get go and anyone with half a brain can dodge a scam. I'd say the only one that people will consistently fall for are recruitment scams by Goonswarm Federation members.
But even then the stories of their scams are all over reddit, so really anyone who takes the time to research EVE a little will know how to avoid those scams aswell.
No one is scammed out of the money in their wallet or bank account. It's crazy misinformation like this that drives me up the wall with these threads.
All the crazy stories where a corp or person are robbed of a ton of items and isk are not scams that impacted anyones real life money. They just use the current ingame price of PLEX (currently ~800m) and the rl price of $20 to try and show a real life equivalent in money to make the impact of the theft seem larger. But when someone loses $8000 dollars worth of stuff, it's not $8000 that they put into the game. It's just a need to put a dollar amount on stuff for shock effect.
The fact that you have played the game for over a year and never got scammed still doesn't justify unethical behavior.
Not necessarily. I read his post as wanting a bit of context to make him believe in the fiction.
Just because somebody is wanting a bit of context, a bit of something to help them with their investment in the fiction, doesn't mean they want a hand-held themepark.
See, the thing that I'm disappointed in, more than anything, is how there's this beautiful fictional universe, filled with detail and background, that absolutely nobody seems interested in.
Even CCP seems embarrassed with things like the Empires and the intrigue around the various organizations there...mainly because the players want EVE to be about real life drama rather than about the fiction drama.
As a result, players who want to dive into an alternate reality don't really have a place in EVE...it all degenerates into 4Chan with stunning graphics.
Damn shame, too, because it was beautiful--artistically speaking--and thought-provoking from a background perspective.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Hyperbole towards the end ruined it... CVA and Providence bloc is all that needs to be said though if pressed you could also look at the EVE in-game news feed and see RPers doing their thing quite happily (hunting down rogues or supporting them, running blockades, aiding relief missions,etc, all events guided though not all with a fixed ending).
I think early in the game you saw much more players taking part in EVE's backstory or making corps that support the various fictional NPC factions in the game because they wanted a part in the lore. At some point in EVE's development the player made factions started to overshadow the fictional ones and it pretty much became a world where the devs put us in here and we create the stories because the human stories are so much more dramatic and interesting than the NPC ones.
NPCs dont get mad, or want to give you some payback, people do. That's the identity that's been shaped over the years and I think the player base and the devs thought it was the best possible direction to go and no other game was doing it. That's possibly the main draw of the game too, that it is its own world that doesn't have the kind of rules the real world does or even other games.
The freedom of the game makes you keep logging in and the social aspect of it in terms of corps and alliances you have loyalty or pride towards. There is a real feeling of pride if you are in a decent group that everyone in the game has heard the name of, alternatively when you are starting out and you are with a group of nobodies it gives you something to aspire towards. EVE isn't a solo game that just dishes you NPC content with other people in the background, if that's the way you try to play it then you are pretty much missing the point of the game.
Its also the only game with a permanent kill-loss record which is pretty neat, not just for the hilarious 4chan-like comments on big ticket losses but also because it allows you to do research on other players to assess how dangerous they might be.
Some of the player base over the years, at least. The loudest players over the years, at least.
But I'm thinking about all of those folks over the years who wanted a true, virtual reality where they could delve into a compelling fiction that comes from mature motives. I read on Massively that roughly 90% of new players quit within six months...apparently the player-made environment you all established appeals to 10% of folks, but not the rest. Fair enough. You are what you are. But what you have created, as a community, is too boring and typical of the jocular online culture they see in games today, and folks like me just don't find that interesting.
Can you see, perhaps, why some people might think that Goon vs BoB drama is lame, and how Amarr vs Matar drama is more compelling? I mean, Goon vs BoB drama is just a bunch of manchildish prattle, when you get right down to it. Eroica1 BS is just...sad. It doesn't show how great, creative and thought-provoking you all are. It just looks like a sad group of folks who have no imagination or personality.
I mean, if you are going to get all worked up over online BS, it might as well be BS that's compelling and embodies values that are greater than yourselves. That's why the EVE fiction is important, at least for me. Because SomethingAwful and powerclan values really don't stand for much, other than "look at how cool we are" and "ROFL."
I want something more interesting than that.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
This isn't just an EVE problem. It's an internet problem. All the kind of utopian dreams of what the internet could do (of which I think early MMOs were a part) tend to go out the window when 4chan and SomethingAwful and the like get involved in anything. Stuff like EVE doesn't create the cesspool it just reflects the majority of the internet back at itself.
How do you fix it? How do you socially engineer these people to be decent online despite their every instinct which seems to be to the contrary while still giving them freedom to actually build their own stories or drive the narration in the ones you've created? It may be impossible but if some dev figures it out they're going to have a great game .
Only way is the way real world societies do it. Punishments have to be worse or perceived as worse than the benefit of the action.
I've been playing on an off since 2004, having between 1 and 4 accounts subscribed at any given time. I'm more or less a "solo" player. I usually play on 1 or 2 characters at a time and chat with people in various channels, but I don't often actually fleet up with other people. Fleeting with other players is too much waiting around and herding cats. I spend the vast majority of my time in hisec. I have never been griefed, suicide ganked, scammed, or continuously harassed by anyone. I have a hard time believing the posts that claim that these sorts of things are standard experiences in EVE. It only becomes standard experience for people who fail to learn how to play the game, and proceed to throw a fit over it, I suspect. I suspect that people posting these "don't play EVE!" horror tales on this forum actually invited abuse through their actions somehow... being mouthy in local chat for instance, after things don't go their way, instead of trying to learn from their mistakes.
EVE is simply not forgiving. If you are an idiot, then yeah, you probably will not have a fun time. If you have a modicum of critical thinking ability and the ability to learn and plan ahead, you will probably be fine. It's people who have this bizarre sense of entitlement and refusal to learn how the game works that end up getting burned. Sorry, this isn't a single player game. You can't just grind mobs and asteroids 24/7 and expect to be left alone by the other players. Some people will want to interact with you in a way you may not like. Hopefully you have already taken the steps necessary to thwart them. You are only a victim in EVE if you choose to be one. If you just derp around expecting the game to take care of you 24/7... well... this brings us back to learn how to play the fricken game!
CODE is a joke. It's easy enough to fly a properly tanked Procurer or Skiff and give them a hard time. Goons in hisec are a joke. Its Hulkageddon? Gee, maybe fly something other than a Hulk this week? Duh. They're burning Jita today? Oh no! You have to go one day without visiting one of the many trade hubs, maybe? Duh. Jita is an overcrowded cesspit every friggen day anyway, you don't exactly hang out there all day sitting in front of the 4-4 station do you? Common sense, people.
Don't expect EVE to play like Everquest or World of Warcraft. It's its own game. Learn the rules and you'll be fine.
I don't recommend people play because of the metagame, because of the bias CCP shows towards certain elements of the game, because of the inability to post on the forums due to the censorship of 'special' ISD associated with alliances / corporations in game and because of CCP's inability to fix its tragically broken sovereign system, ease and low cost of suicide ganking against very costly targets and CCP's inability to prevent out of game harassment by players in game.
Another issue which is worth noting are the developer run events which disproportionately favour certain alliances with massive drops worth hundreds of billions of isk, many of which have current and former devs as leaders or high ranking officers.
Due to the above EvE is not worth paying money for as its far to skewed in favour of certain entities in game. The gameplay itself, were it properly managed is a lot of fun, which is why I stuck with it for 11 years.
Infinity Ziona
You mistake concurent users for subsribers. EVE West should have roughly around 350k subs at least. EVE is stagnating for sure but it is hardly dead.