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Why Group Content doesn't work for the majority of the player base

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     

    And if a game wants to gimp itself with a limited audience (heck even the poster child Eve has only 500k players), this is the way to go.

    Players who want to be self-sufficient can just leave and play some other games. There are plenty to choose from.

     

    And how many other 11 year old games which cost a few million at most to make have 500K subs? EVE is pretty successful all things considered. 

     

     

    That is thinking small. Any modern game leapfrogged 500k in a week (GW2, TOR, LoL, WoT).

    A game needs 11 years to get to a mere 500k  is pretty much meh.

    You are pretty much not thinking, NARI.... as an investor would you rather have a $20 Million return on a $1 Million investment or a $400 Million return on a $300 Million investment?

    What do you do if you don't have $300 Million in capital to put towards a project? Shrug your shoulders and go wash cars for minimum wage? ...... or run a business that can net you a couple Million per year in proffit for your $1 Million investment.

    I'm not a big fan of EvE or CCCP but unless you are Bill Gates or Warren Buffet,  your "meh" is better then 99 percent of the enterprises out there.
     

     

    An investor is not going to bet on a game that takes twelve years to get going.  The return on the investment would have to be phenomenal for that to be worthwhile.  Not when it's possible to have the return almost immediately, and then sustain that return over years, which is what is happening now with games like SWToR.

     

    If someone is going to invest in a game like Eve, they aren't going to do it because they think in twelve years it's going to start running in the black.  It's because they think it will quickly start generating revenue relative to the investment because of Eve's current success.

     

    Actualy people have all sorts of different investment strategies designed to achieve different things. The average startup that is successfull takes about 2 years to break even. Most startups aren't successfull though. Investing in startups is risky but the reason people can demand alot for thier dollar. If they are successfull, you can get alot for your dollar over the long haul. You have to understand that it's not neccesarly a 1:1 return that scales with the products proffits. If I invest in a project with a company the size of EA and they make a 150 percent return on that project, I'm not likely to see a 150 percent return on my investment. It'll be according to whatever terms we agreed upon. Because a big company usualy has a much easier time raising money, it's not likely to offer great terms.  A smaller company that doesn't have an easy time raising capital is likely to offer much better terms to potential investors...it's one of the reasons people invest in them. It also depends upon what sort of vehicle the investment takes.

    P.S. I don't really know EvE's financial history...but I don't think it took them 12 years to reach break even on thier initial investment.

     

    Financially Eve was probably never in the red.  CCP is a private company, handling their own money.  Eve was initially funded by a board game if you can believe it.  They spent 5 years in development and another 7 years to get close to where they are today.  That's where the twelve year number comes from.  This worked for them, but it probably wouldn't work for any not self financed game or company.  People keep pointing to Eve as a model that would work for other games, but they keep ignoring how Eve really is a unique snowflake in the market.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by lizardbones
     

    Financially Eve was probably never in the red.  CCP is a private company, handling their own money.  Eve was initially funded by a board game if you can believe it.  They spent 5 years in development and another 7 years to get close to where they are today.  That's where the twelve year number comes from.  This worked for them, but it probably wouldn't work for any not self financed game or company.  People keep pointing to Eve as a model that would work for other games, but they keep ignoring how Eve really is a unique snowflake in the market.

     

    I believe technology is a big factor here. Would a game like EVE take 5 years to develop if the same size dev studio started work on it today? In the past you pretty much needed huge studios with huge resources to make an MMO and companies like CCP really were the rare exception but I believe this is changing. If the cost and time investment becomes low enough we might even see some big publishers make some of these smaller MMOs to diversify. 

     

    Banking everything on  one several hundred million dollar game  is a very risky strategy.  And even if AAA publishers  don't step up I believer a new crop of smaller indie devs will spring up as has already happened in single player games.

     

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by KopeAcetic

    I have to agree with some of the other commenters on here that it seems like group content just isn't right anymore for your group of friends, and that's perfectly fine.  90% of the MMOs on the current market are advertised as "Solo to max level" as an incentive.

     

    Unfortunately I don't want to solo in an MMO :( that's not why I play them and so posts like this sadden me because the vast majority of MMOs incentivise non group play now.

    The thread (as with all long threads go) went into some really out there tangents but this post still is on topic so I'll respond to it.

     

    Please do not be sadden because MMOs still incentivise group play.

    1. Best gear? Raids

    2. Quickest Exp in MMOs? Group play. In SWTOR/WoW, quickest way to level is to group up and just run instances. I will add that some MMOs lets you 'buy levels' though; GW2, WoW, LoTRO etc.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by KopeAcetic

     

    Unfortunately I don't want to solo in an MMO :( that's not why I play them and so posts like this sadden me because the vast majority of MMOs incentivise non group play now.

    Fortunately i do want to solo in a MMO. IP and content are why i play them.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,178
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by KopeAcetic

     

    Unfortunately I don't want to solo in an MMO :( that's not why I play them and so posts like this sadden me because the vast majority of MMOs incentivise non group play now.

    Fortunately i do want to solo in a MMO. IP and content are why i play them.

    And as players like Nari are the majority, gaming houses stick two fingers up to everyone else.

     

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • LalapaseoLalapaseo Member Posts: 16
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by KopeAcetic

     

    Unfortunately I don't want to solo in an MMO :( that's not why I play them and so posts like this sadden me because the vast majority of MMOs incentivise non group play now.

    Fortunately i do want to solo in a MMO. IP and content are why i play them.

    And as players like Nari are the majority, gaming houses stick two fingers up to everyone else.

     

    Why so? Is it really the general consensus that the majority of players wants group content, or the other way around as per the OP? What is the basis for such a finding? I say this not in disagreement and only out of curiousity, haha.

  • KissThaRingKissThaRing Member UncommonPosts: 78
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    Appearently you started with WoW and so never experienced what REAL Group content and social interaction is!

    Since WoW, every MMO that came after.... Group content is solely Limited to gear grinds that causes more grief than actually fun social interaction!

     

    I hate to bring up SWG again, but in the days of SWG (pre-NGE) there were no gear grinds! There was no Trinity system forcing you to have a tank, off tank, bunch of DPS and a healer or two!

    People just got together, traveled and just do stuff! Be it sacking an rebel or imperial base, night sister or Rancor hunting or one of the awesome world bosses.

    People just get together, travel to a spot. A ranger put up a camp for People to heal, buff, prepare, etc and then we just went on a hunt together!

    Or People just gathered and socialized in one of the cantinas. Busy in a guild hall or player house / shop, etc.

    That´s what Group content was about! People created the Group activities themselves! With no pressure! No stupid Trinity system forced Down your throat! No horrible tedious gear grinds!

    And then it didn´t matter if you were a student, a single or married person with kids. You could just come online whenever you wanted, do what you wanted and spend time as long as it suited you, without any pressure.

     

    /SIGH !  I really miss that kind of stuff in MMO´s these days. :-(

    QFT. This is the big problem with Themepark MMO's, which is all MMO's post 2004. They force the story on you, they make you believe that because its voice acted, you need to pay attention because its important. Bullcrap. SWG, somehow, someway, got it right. All the content you ever need is a good social circle (guild) and a good spawn of Rancors to group grind, and whamo, a full night of fun. You helped each other out, you had chat bubbles, you bonded with your character and mostly importantly you bonded with other people, people from different backgrounds and cultures. something that just doesn't happen anymore due to tiny world zones, "match making" for pvp/pve content, and instances.

    MMO's aren't about the adventure with people and the bonding of communities. It's all about getting that ilvl115 gear so your not kicked from the next raid group of abunch of people that you don't even know...

    I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by Lalapaseo
    Originally posted by Scot
     

    Why so? Is it really the general consensus that the majority of players wants group content, or the other way around as per the OP? What is the basis for such a finding? I say this not in disagreement and only out of curiousity, haha.

    The average gamer age is 31+ with the largest section being 36+.

    At age 36+ the majority of people has other responsibility that hinders their game time. It doesn't really matter whether someone wants group content or not as 'crying baby' (or other real life stuff) overrides everything.

    Which is why most MMOs have progression systems of 20-40mins nowadays and why people prefer soloable content.

    People who can commit to the '3-4 hours raiding 3 times a week' are decreasing.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by KissThaRing
     

    QFT. This is the big problem with Themepark MMO's, which is all MMO's post 2004. They force the story on you, they make you believe that because its voice acted, you need to pay attention because its important. Bullcrap. SWG, somehow, someway, got it right. All the content you ever need is a good social circle (guild) and a good spawn of Rancors to group grind, and whamo, a full night of fun. You helped each other out, you had chat bubbles, you bonded with your character and mostly importantly you bonded with other people, people from different backgrounds and cultures. something that just doesn't happen anymore due to tiny world zones, "match making" for pvp/pve content, and instances.

    MMO's aren't about the adventure with people and the bonding of communities. It's all about getting that ilvl115 gear so your not kicked from the next raid group of abunch of people that you don't even know...

    Last I checked, nothing is stopping people from 'bonding with others' in any MMOs.

    Whether people do them or not is up to individual preference and it isn't the MMO's fault if people don't.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by lizardbones
     

    Financially Eve was probably never in the red.  CCP is a private company, handling their own money.  Eve was initially funded by a board game if you can believe it.  They spent 5 years in development and another 7 years to get close to where they are today.  That's where the twelve year number comes from.  This worked for them, but it probably wouldn't work for any not self financed game or company.  People keep pointing to Eve as a model that would work for other games, but they keep ignoring how Eve really is a unique snowflake in the market.

     

    I believe technology is a big factor here. Would a game like EVE take 5 years to develop if the same size dev studio started work on it today? In the past you pretty much needed huge studios with huge resources to make an MMO and companies like CCP really were the rare exception but I believe this is changing. If the cost and time investment becomes low enough we might even see some big publishers make some of these smaller MMOs to diversify. 

     

    Banking everything on  one several hundred million dollar game  is a very risky strategy.  And even if AAA publishers  don't step up I believer a new crop of smaller indie devs will spring up as has already happened in single player games.

     

     

    Why do you believe it is changing?  Development tools and processes aren't easier or cheaper to use now than they were five or ten years ago.  They are considerably more expensive in terms of labor if nothing else.  Indie developers are making games, but they aren't making MMORPGs.  Those guys on Kickstarter?  They are dumping millions of their own into the games, in addition to all the money they are getting from fans.  The MMORPGs with sub million dollar goals are only building tech demos, and you'll notice they aren't getting very far with them.  The only people making progress are the people with millions of their own money to spend, and who have years of experience in the industry.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Originally posted by lizardbones
     

     

    Why do you believe it is changing?  Development tools and processes aren't easier or cheaper to use now than they were five or ten years ago.  They are considerably more expensive in terms of labor if nothing else.  Indie developers are making games, but they aren't making MMORPGs.  Those guys on Kickstarter?  They are dumping millions of their own into the games, in addition to all the money they are getting from fans.  The MMORPGs with sub million dollar goals are only building tech demos, and you'll notice they aren't getting very far with them.  The only people making progress are the people with millions of their own money to spend, and who have years of experience in the industry.

     

    Well I personally find what something like The Repopulation has been able to accomplish with a sub-million dollar budget and a couple of years of development time pretty impressive.  I'm not an expert in the technology but stuff like Unity does seem to make it easier for small teams. These games are really my only hope right now as current crop of big budget AAA MMOs hold very little interest for me.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by KopeAcetic

     

    Unfortunately I don't want to solo in an MMO :( that's not why I play them and so posts like this sadden me because the vast majority of MMOs incentivise non group play now.

    Fortunately i do want to solo in a MMO. IP and content are why i play them.

    And as players like Nari are the majority, gaming houses stick two fingers up to everyone else.

     

    Is there a reason why devs cannot cater to whomever they want?

    Is making a FPS "stick two finger up" those who like RTS? It is not a contest, it is a market.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by lizardbones
     

     

    Why do you believe it is changing?  Development tools and processes aren't easier or cheaper to use now than they were five or ten years ago.  They are considerably more expensive in terms of labor if nothing else.  Indie developers are making games, but they aren't making MMORPGs.  Those guys on Kickstarter?  They are dumping millions of their own into the games, in addition to all the money they are getting from fans.  The MMORPGs with sub million dollar goals are only building tech demos, and you'll notice they aren't getting very far with them.  The only people making progress are the people with millions of their own money to spend, and who have years of experience in the industry.

     

    Well I personally find what something like The Repopulation has been able to accomplish with a sub-million dollar budget and a couple of years of development time pretty impressive.  I'm not an expert in the technology but stuff like Unity does seem to make it easier for small teams. These games are really my only hope right now as current crop of big budget AAA MMOs hold very little interest for me.

     

     

    The Repopulation was in development for four years prior to their 2012 Kickstarter.  The money they've raised through Kickstarter has been a small part of their overall development cost and effort.  They said themselves, even without the Kickstarter, they planned on having the game ready to release in 2013.

     

    They have a long list of people on their website as being members of their team.  Their list of former contributors totals 18 people.  This was not an inexpensive project.  A team of close to fifty people did not spend six years working on a game and have the budget come in under a million dollars.  Ten people working for six years would push well past the million dollar mark.

     

    This is kind of like people pointing at Eve and how they are a model for success, but ignoring all the things about Eve and CCP that make them unique.  The Repopulation is a cool game, but people ignore the huge effort and expense that is going into the game's construction.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by KopeAcetic

     

    Unfortunately I don't want to solo in an MMO :( that's not why I play them and so posts like this sadden me because the vast majority of MMOs incentivise non group play now.

    Fortunately i do want to solo in a MMO. IP and content are why i play them.

    And as players like Nari are the majority, gaming houses stick two fingers up to everyone else.

     

    The majority has the most money, the majority wins.  If you don't like being in the minority, convince more people to like grouping.  Whining about it won't help, you actually have to grow your preferred playstyle.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    The aim of this thread was an observation that the players preference on grouping or not is irrelevant. 'Baby crying' or equivalent will override any entertainment activity for the majority of people now. This isn't the mmos fault. Players grew up and their lives changed.

    The majority ain't 20-something anymore.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Originally posted by jpnz
    The aim of this thread was an observation that the players preference on grouping or not is irrelevant. 'Baby crying' or equivalent will override any entertainment activity for the majority of people now. This isn't the mmos fault. Players grew up and their lives changed.

    The majority ain't 20-something anymore.

    You keep using your own situation trying to describe things for the average MMO player, and you use the average gamer to describe the MMO player, and the average age to describe the average family situation, and that's just statistical nonsense. If you want to know about the average MMO player you have to study MMO players.

     

    Metrics from bioware said that the average swtor player spent 30-40 hours per week on the game during release month. Metrics taken in wow said that 20-25% had kids.

     

    The same kind of studies  have shown that 2/3 of players have no desire to socialize within the game, although they would like to play with their significant other or with friends. That's why dungeon finders were created, to give you easy access to dungeons. Pug has a far higher chance of falling apart, but with shorter dungeons there are far less chance that people ditch the group in the middle of it, and you don't lose that much progress if someone does it.

    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp Member UncommonPosts: 370

    I'm in that age range and don't have kids. Don't want kids, world is overpopulated as it is. And that's why I don't want to raid either, because I don't want to deal with some self absorbed disgusting little mutant only child who always seems to typically run a raid. Anytime you get 24 MMO players together at least a good half of them are going to be worthless human beings. So why the rush to breed to create more?

    That's the reason for less interactivity in video games and group content is because most people have no interest in talking to you.

    (before anyone gets too upset, Im joking. But in fact the reason people don't want to group is because other people ruin it.)

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by Shaigh
    Originally posted by jpnz
    The aim of this thread was an observation that the players preference on grouping or not is irrelevant. 'Baby crying' or equivalent will override any entertainment activity for the majority of people now. This isn't the mmos fault. Players grew up and their lives changed.

    The majority ain't 20-something anymore.

    You keep using your own situation trying to describe things for the average MMO player, and you use the average gamer to describe the MMO player, and the average age to describe the average family situation, and that's just statistical nonsense. If you want to know about the average MMO player you have to study MMO players.

     

    Metrics from bioware said that the average swtor player spent 30-40 hours per week on the game during release month. Metrics taken in wow said that 20-25% had kids.

     

    The same kind of studies  have shown that 2/3 of players have no desire to socialize within the game, although they would like to play with their significant other or with friends. That's why dungeon finders were created, to give you easy access to dungeons. Pug has a far higher chance of falling apart, but with shorter dungeons there are far less chance that people ditch the group in the middle of it, and you don't lose that much progress if someone does it.

    I didn't realise MMO players aren't 'gamers'. *rolls eyes*

    I don't recall saying anything about 'lack of time'. It is the lack of certainty in 'CONTINUAL TIME' that is the issue here.

    Me and my friends spent 2-3 hours that night in Karazhan; a group activity.

    Would any one of us last a week in a 'raiding guild'? No we wouldn't and that's because of life choices we made as we got older. Are we unique and special because of that? No because the majority of age 36+ have kids / family.

    This isn't hard to understand right?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    I will say (as the OP) that raging against me and making it personal (while amusing) makes little sense.

    Like I said in my OP, people grew up.

    If raging against me makes people not grow up than that's AWESOME (ETERNAL YOUTH!). But that isn't the case. :(

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Shaigh
    Originally posted by jpnz
    The aim of this thread was an observation that the players preference on grouping or not is irrelevant. 'Baby crying' or equivalent will override any entertainment activity for the majority of people now. This isn't the mmos fault. Players grew up and their lives changed.

    The majority ain't 20-something anymore.

    You keep using your own situation trying to describe things for the average MMO player, and you use the average gamer to describe the MMO player, and the average age to describe the average family situation, and that's just statistical nonsense. If you want to know about the average MMO player you have to study MMO players.

     

    Metrics from bioware said that the average swtor player spent 30-40 hours per week on the game during release month. Metrics taken in wow said that 20-25% had kids.

     

    The same kind of studies  have shown that 2/3 of players have no desire to socialize within the game, although they would like to play with their significant other or with friends. That's why dungeon finders were created, to give you easy access to dungeons. Pug has a far higher chance of falling apart, but with shorter dungeons there are far less chance that people ditch the group in the middle of it, and you don't lose that much progress if someone does it.

    I didn't realise MMO players aren't 'gamers'. *rolls eyes*

    I don't recall saying anything about 'lack of time'. It is the lack of certainty in 'CONTINUAL TIME' that is the issue here.

    Me and my friends spent 2-3 hours that night in Karazhan; a group activity.

    Would any one of us last a week in a 'raiding guild'? No we wouldn't and that's because of life choices we made as we got older. Are we unique and special because of that? No because the majority of age 36+ have kids / family.

    This isn't hard to understand right?

    MMO players counts as gamers just like people playing flappy bird are considered gamers, noone would ever consider the gaming habits of an MMO player to be equal that of someone playing on their iphone, except that's exactly what you did.

     

    As far as raiding guild goes,  back in 2006 only 1% entered naxxramas, far before people allegedly started to breed like rabbits. Raiding always been a minority activity, and its never been because people had kids.

     

    Far more players will enter group content if its accessible, short and easy. Its only on the individual level that family status matters.

    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529
    Originally posted by Shaigh
     

    MMO players counts as gamers just like people playing flappy bird are considered gamers, noone would ever consider the gaming habits of an MMO player to be equal that of someone playing on their iphone, except that's exactly what you did.

     

    As far as raiding guild goes,  back in 2006 only 1% entered naxxramas, far before people allegedly started to breed like rabbits. Raiding always been a minority activity, and its never been because people had kids.

     

    Far more players will enter group content if its accessible, short and easy. Its only on the individual level that family status matters.

    If you want to refuse to believe reports on gamer age, you go ahead and do that.

    I do find it highly amusing that you can't cite a single report that fits your narrative but keep on creating strawman arguments.

    WoW's raiding (before LFR) was actually 50% in WoTLK; it was considered as something to be proud of by Blizzard at the time. Which was what? 5 years ago?

     

    'Short and easy' That pretty much summarises the group content we have today.

    All my OP was about was that 'long and hard' group content is no longer something the majority of the player-base can play.

    Not sure if your argument will go down well with other 'pro-group' players around here; the 'MMOs are about GROUP CONTENT!' types.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Shaigh
    Originally posted by jpnz
    The aim of this thread was an observation that the players preference on grouping or not is irrelevant. 'Baby crying' or equivalent will override any entertainment activity for the majority of people now. This isn't the mmos fault. Players grew up and their lives changed.

    The majority ain't 20-something anymore.

    You keep using your own situation trying to describe things for the average MMO player, and you use the average gamer to describe the MMO player, and the average age to describe the average family situation, and that's just statistical nonsense. If you want to know about the average MMO player you have to study MMO players.

     

    Metrics from bioware said that the average swtor player spent 30-40 hours per week on the game during release month. Metrics taken in wow said that 20-25% had kids.

     

    The same kind of studies  have shown that 2/3 of players have no desire to socialize within the game, although they would like to play with their significant other or with friends. That's why dungeon finders were created, to give you easy access to dungeons. Pug has a far higher chance of falling apart, but with shorter dungeons there are far less chance that people ditch the group in the middle of it, and you don't lose that much progress if someone does it.

    I didn't realise MMO players aren't 'gamers'. *rolls eyes*

    I don't recall saying anything about 'lack of time'. It is the lack of certainty in 'CONTINUAL TIME' that is the issue here.

    Me and my friends spent 2-3 hours that night in Karazhan; a group activity.

    Would any one of us last a week in a 'raiding guild'? No we wouldn't and that's because of life choices we made as we got older. Are we unique and special because of that? No because the majority of age 36+ have kids / family.

    This isn't hard to understand right?

     

    MMO players are gamers.  However, I do agree that while the general population of gamers has an average of 30 something, the more specific population of MMO players may be younger or older.  We don't really know how old they are.  I know MMO gamers that are in their twenties, with no kids, and MMO gamers that are my age, with kids and their kids play too.  My daughter played WoW for the first time the other day after mocking me for it for years.  She's just installed it on her laptop because it was fun.  :-)

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Colt47Colt47 Member UncommonPosts: 549
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I'm 40 and still have lots of time to play games. I just don't want to sit in a raid anymore with a bunch of people I don't really like but need them to get loot.

    I'd rather goof off doing not so serious stuff with people I actually enjoy playing with. Many of them have time issues so I guess it's still a factor but really I've just been there and done it and even have a bunch of T-shirts. Raiding just isn't all the different in these games.

    I'm 30 but our mind set isn't that different, really.  Raiding is very much like a job and, at least in my opinion, exists to fill some kind of hole that people are missing when they are being slung through the education system, dealing with the duldrums of blue collar work, etc.  There are exceptions, such as those that just love to micromanage becoming in game leaders for Guilds and play raid scheduler, but over all it seems like a consistent theme.  

    I mean, I'm a software engineer for a mid sized company and participating in end game raiding is basically the same as my work life: You got something that needs to be done and requires people to spend time learning how to get the said task done all the while having that feeling that everyone is expecting you to have learned said something by 10 AM yesterday.  Well, raid leaders tend to be a little more lenient, but it comes close.  =p

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,013

    If (massively) MULTIPLAYER (online) Games not have multiplayer (group) contents then what multiplayer stand for ?

    mysterious question.

     

     

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by iixviiiix

    If (massively) MULTIPLAYER (online) Games not have multiplayer (group) contents then what multiplayer stand for ?

    mysterious question.

     

     

     

     

    Your definition of "multiplayer" is too narrow.  When Richard Garriott coined the term, he wasn't talking about dungeons.  He was talking about all of the interactions between players and the persistence of those interactions over time.  Buying things from other players, talking to other players and just traveling with other players are all aspects of the multiplayer aspects of the games.  You could remove dungeon/group content completely and the games would still be MMORPGs.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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