Your not getting it if they don't appeal to more people your pool of recruits for your raiding team is going to dry up fast.
Hardcore raiding has such a small following in MMOs that basing entire game around it well it is just stupid. Carbine didn't attract investors to make a game that would only attract 200k subs. They are like most companies in the corporate world they want to maximize their earnings and right now with their current model I don't see that happening at all. They need some form of easy group content for level capped players in order to keep a healthy growing population. I personally think WoW had the perfect blend of tough and easy group content. A lot of players knock WoW for being easy, but yet I look up a lot of these players and they usually only have normal dungeons and looking for raid achievements no challenge modes completed or heroic raid achievements.
Wildstar could implement easy versions of the dungeons very easily I'm sure making them pug friendly using them as a stepping stone to gearing up for raiding or just to exist as end game for casuals.
I'm not arguing against the difficulty at all I just think they need alternate difficulties for players that don't always want to have to organize a group or their current real life circumstances don't allot them enough time to raid.
Remember casual players increase your pool of potential raiders and having content for them is good for MMO. Not all casuals are terrible at the game sometimes it is just a matter of not having the time or playing at odd hours to be able to run with the guild or make a lot of friends in game.
I agree with this post. Content needs to be there for everyone, not just hardcore raiders, for WildStar to thrive instead of just surviving.
I agree. The problem with difficulty (a lot of which is artificial in WS and achieved simply by raising hp levels) is that it takes more time to complete and is generally not pug-friendly.
If I have an hour in an evening that I can spend gaming (which is quite normal) I am not going to spend it queueing for a group, only to wipe and then have the group disband; I am going to spend it on a different mmo where I have a realistic opportunity to complete some of the content. This is why I quit WS, I simply don't have the time or the flexibility to set aside entire evenings to stare unblinkingly at my monitor during a raid; I think many gamers are in the same position as me (particularly with the average age of gamers rising).
People often conflate casual with lazy or inept; to me it simply means I cannot set aside huge chunks of time to play a game with WS' design criteria.
I'm so amazing at the game I don't even need to play it to know that I can beat it. The game will have to download itself and challenge me to a duel if it wants a rematch. I'm a very busy person, it will have to make an appointment with my people first.
Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss I disagree. I have never quit an MMO for being too difficult until now. I got to 50 and quit within a week.
So you may be to young to have played WoW when it released. Vanilla had some of the hardest dungeons I have played. The dungeons in this have somewhat of the same feel to them, but not quite as difficult. But like any dungeon it all depends on your group and if you are working well together. It's not at all like WoWs current Diablo style of dungeons where you just go in and start hacking and slashing and are finished in 15 minutes. I'm afraid that WS will slowly be transitioned into another MoP to appease the masses. Either games are way to hard or to easy!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
The attunement is really poorly done. It's not that the game is too hard, but that the attunement will force most casuals out from the very beginning. I realize they were making raids for the "hardcore", but I think they overdid it.
I'm a hardcore player in every aspect, but I just couldn't do Wildstar raiding because I have a job where I work late at night during US primetime hours. I tried, but the attunement was just taking too long to get into raiding and was too costly in terms of repair builds so I was spending all my time in game working on attunement and farming, but not enjoying other aspects of the game. I had to give it up even though I enjoyed the game's combat because I was doing nothing but playing Wildstar in a way that was not enjoyable to me.
First off, for attunement you need to grind up rep. Depending on how much faction you have to begin with from questing leveling up (if you didn't quest leveling up and leveled by other means, well woe is you) you are looking at a fairly long grind of adventures or going back and doing quests. The questing system in Wildstar is one of the worst I've seen in MMOs to date, so this feels like the massive grind it is, and alternatively you can do veteran adventures, but that gets repetitive with only 4 veteran adventures to do and only rewarding around 250 rep per (you need 42000 if I remember correctly).
Once you finish that massive grind you have a few solo steps then you move on to veteran adventures which you have to achieve at least a silver on. Veteran adventures are a massive step up in difficulty from solo questing (Wildstar has severe content pacing issues IMO), but they are still doable for the most part in a PUG; however that can be like playing Russian Roulette so I'd recommend at this point getting your guild to help.
After that you have some more solo stuff and then eventually you have to get silver on all dungeons. Even if you can be carried by people who have done this already, you have to speed run each dungeon which means you have to output a good amount of DPS and not die, or be a good tank/healer while completing all the optionals that aren't challenges. The dungeons are once again a huge difficulty jump from adventures, with really nothing in between them to prepare you. Just getting your gear to a level competent enough to speed run these dungeons is a huge grind in and of itself, and you pretty much have to learn the dungeons in and out to silver them.
Finally, after more solo steps you have to kill every outdoor raid boss in the game (I'm not counting the step that ends with the optional boss in KV because that's a cakewalk compared to silvering the dungeons). I think there are 10 total. While these aren't terribly difficult you're going to have to rely on a guild to go back and do the attunement with you, at least for some of the harder raid bosses.
This is an Everquest level attunement grind, with a difficulty that really doesn't match what the first boss you experience in Genetic Archives is. I really think they could tone down the difficulty. The worst part of the attunement is that step completion is not retroactive, so you have to do all the steps in order. Want to work on veteran dungeons and adventures while working on your rep grind and maybe downing a few of the outdoor raid bosses? Nope. You have to follow the steps in order and that makes it even more frustrating and longer than it should be.
What annoys me the most in WildStar is that every single mob in-game has better run speed than me unless im sprinting. The other thing is that the devs went the lazy road and as a result I get falcon punched from a 50m range. "Because he can have a healer with him" *dull face*
Telegraphs however are cool yes. The mobs that doesn't stun lock me (mind you I have no stability type skills) are pretty fun to fight IMO
every class has a CC break.
Is it a special key or a Support/Utility skill because frankly the game does poor job at explaining me how stun break works. I'm trying to dodge and shit but meh. Once the heavy hitting starts im flat faced to the ground and easily lose 50% HP. In a game where running with a healer around is a requirement (trinity ) that's huge chunk of HP to lose at the start of a fight.
And lol the CC resistant mobs are such turnoff Pretty much like the defiant mobs in Gw2. I don't like them there either.
Every class has at least one ability to break out of CC (in addition to basic dodging). I believe they are in the Utility skill line for every class.
Try reading the skill descriptions to get see which ones. For example: Spellslinger - Utility - Void Slip: Removes all CC effects...
Or Warrior - Utility - Unstoppable Force: Break free of all CC effects. Become immune to CC for X seconds.
Or Stalker - Utility - Tactical Retreat (needs to be upgraded to Tier4)
Medic - Utility - Calm (or Urgency upgraded ot Tier4)
Esper - Utility - Fade Out
Engineer - Utility - Shatter Impairment
A lot of those classes have more than 1 way to break out of CC, but that's just what I found taking a quick second to look at the abilities. If you still can't find the CC breaks, try looking at the upgraded versions of some of those skills to see what the benefits are.
Is it a special key or a Support/Utility skill because frankly the game does poor job at explaining me how stun break works. I'm trying to dodge and shit but meh. Once the heavy hitting starts im flat faced to the ground and easily lose 50% HP. In a game where running with a healer around is a requirement (trinity ) that's huge chunk of HP to lose at the start of a fight.
And lol the CC resistant mobs are such turnoff Pretty much like the defiant mobs in Gw2. I don't like them there either.
I agree it could do a better job explaining the CC in the game and how the breakout effects work. Assuming you don't have a removal available which all classes get:
Stun -> Hold the key that pops up on your screen. Typically W, A, S, or D if you have default movement controls.
Knockdown -> Dodge roll in any direction to quickly get out of it.
Disorient -> Controls are changed for the duration, simply adjust.
Blind -> Screen is obscured, you can still see some areas of the screen so try to adjust.
Root/Snare -> No breakout gameplay.
Tether -> An object will be placed on the ground you need to deal enough damage to. If you try to run outside the tether range you'll be pulled back into it.
Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss I disagree. I have never quit an MMO for being too difficult until now. I got to 50 and quit within a week.
So you may be to young to have played WoW when it released. Vanilla had some of the hardest dungeons I have played. The dungeons in this have somewhat of the same feel to them, but not quite as difficult. But like any dungeon it all depends on your group and if you are working well together. It's not at all like WoWs current Diablo style of dungeons where you just go in and start hacking and slashing and are finished in 15 minutes. I'm afraid that WS will slowly be transitioned into another MoP to appease the masses. Either games are way to hard or to easy!
Vanilla dungeons were not tough at all maybe for some being new to mmos which was definitely the case for many back then. More often than not I remember the only difficulty was trying to organize people to run these and the length of time it took to complete them which sometimes was 3-4 hours hello BRD! Also 40 man raiding in vanilla was a joke yes I did all the content up til AQ 40 even dabbled in Naxx as well. I remember often how really only about 15 or so players would carry the rest of the afkers and the poor dpsers. Too many people are way to nostalgic about this time period in WoW the game might have been tough to some but no where near as inaccessible as Wildstar's end game is right now. By the way Amjoco I'd love a link to your wow armory profile to see if you actually achieved in some of the harder content wow has.
I totally disagree that making Wildstar's end game more accessible would hurt the game. Having multiple difficulties would go along way in providing content for all player types that enjoy Wildstar's IP. Again people knock WoW for using this model of having their content more accessible and so far it has worked pretty well. Yah I know trolls WoW is losing subs and the only reason I think they are is that well it is a old game and people get tired of playing the same game for 10 years.
Bottom line is that Wildstar made a theme park wowish clone that copies a lot of great ideas from EQ1 and WoW but really fails to learn what these and other mmo companies have learned over the last 10 years. Casuals pay the bills bottom line!
Originally posted by JonnyBigBoss I disagree. I have never quit an MMO for being too difficult until now. I got to 50 and quit within a week.
So you may be to young to have played WoW when it released. Vanilla had some of the hardest dungeons I have played. The dungeons in this have somewhat of the same feel to them, but not quite as difficult. But like any dungeon it all depends on your group and if you are working well together. It's not at all like WoWs current Diablo style of dungeons where you just go in and start hacking and slashing and are finished in 15 minutes. I'm afraid that WS will slowly be transitioned into another MoP to appease the masses. Either games are way to hard or to easy!
Makes me wonder if you've played through and gotten a silver or gold in all of Wildstar's veteran dungeons, because I find that statement to be simply untrue.
In Vanilla WoW you could complete Strat and SM in 10 man parties and UBRS in 15 man parties. For the most part these could all be done in PUGs with no coordination. The only difficult dungeon at release was BRD, but that was more difficult due to time and only the sections that were NOT required for attunement at the end (the gauntlet and Emperor) were difficult for a 5 man party. Still, it wasn't nearly as difficult as getting a silver on the easiest Wildstar veteran dungeon.
When they removed the ability to go into Strat and SM with a 10 man party (and brought UBRS down to 10) people already had completed many of the raids and were geared, making the 5 man versions (where they also reduced the difficulty) of these dungeons fairly simple with any raid geared player. Even so, the difficulty nerf brought things down in line. I remember running AoE groups in Strat on the living side to farm righteous orbs and we didn't even use a tank it was that easy.
On the other hand Wildstar's veteran dungeons are a wipefest and you are required to speed run them for the attunement. Simply doing one on silver is a feat in and of itself much less mastering them all. By far the hardest dungeons in a game thus far. I think the hardest point WoW ever had for dungeons was TBC Heroics at the start of TBC before they got hit by nerfs. I still think that's easier than say high level fractals in GW2 or even Arah runs, and it compares in no way to the difficulty of Wildstar's dungeons (which are also VERY buggy and rarely have scripts work properly).
Also remember, that game communities aren't build by the devs, they are built by the players. Help people out when you can, encourage don't discourage. If someone isn't doing something right help them constructively. No one ever learned by being told "you should uninstall you baddie!!".
Problem with games today. We the consumer never had input on a games features or development back in the day and the games were way more enjoyable. Today games are terrible due to them listening to their player base. Proof is in the games then vs now.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
hard no.. tedious yes..i myself couldnt bare to play past 30+ the game got super bland and everything was the same and im just not saying that..the lvling reminded me of Asian grind mmo with hubs that all have the same quests / task or what ever ppl wanna dress them up to be
im always hearing people saying get to 50 the game explodes at max lvl! ..imo if i have to rush to enjoy a mmo at max lvl it isnt worth my time nor is that fun being max lvl and waiting in lobbys and doing these so called "end game" stuff..in mmorpgs for me the game starts as soon as i log in and have fun..not rushing to max lvl just to do this "end game " filler/garbage till next xpan.
i know you dont HAVE to rush to max lvl but basicly thats what youll want to do in this mmo..that or be bored to death doing the uber boreing story and quests that are all the same ...not to mention how bad the armor and weapons never seem to have any change to it..like having a lvl 1 sword looking the same or not very diff from a sword that some guy has raided his ass off for 3 days for..sure iv played mmos that arent very flashy but its going on 2015 and a lil flash and more thought coulda gone a long way here in this game
My friend you have totally missed my point. I'm not asking that the tough content be removed from the game. I'm only asking that they make a more beer league friendly version thats all. And man some of the best times I had with my guild mates in MMOs have been playing with casuals running the easier dungeons not having to worry about finishing to beat the timers.
So todays mmo suck because they have been a rehashed copy of EQ1 almost every one that has come out in the last few years is basically the same shit.
As a customer I have every right to bitch about a product I bought and you damn right I want the game to have elements in designed for me who wouldn't. You bash me for wanting game systems that I like yet you are championing the same thing while bashing others. You my friend are just as entitled.
Carbine said that they were making a game for the hardcore. Due to your time restrictions, you sound like a casual and the game isn't for you. I dont' understand why a game should waste its time making an easier version of itself ( which is not that hard to begin with ) so you can go pug a few instances in your short amount of time just because of the fact that you bought the game. The guy sounded like a rant and he sounded pretty angry and passionate about his feelings but what he said holds some truth to it in which MMO's are being tailored for single player gaming because people like instant gratification.
In all honesty, to get silver on any of these dungeons and adventures is really easy once you learn the mechanics to it. If you can't stay out of red or interrupt mobs in these vets, then you need to learn how to do it... its that simple. Don't say that you can't pug anything in this game because I got gold in all the vet adventures with pugs... and finding a static 5 man from the hundreds of players logged in every day to knock out your silver attunement for vet dungeons can easily be done.
My friend you have totally missed my point. I'm not asking that the tough content be removed from the game. I'm only asking that they make a more beer league friendly version thats all. And man some of the best times I had with my guild mates in MMOs have been playing with casuals running the easier dungeons not having to worry about finishing to beat the timers.
So todays mmo suck because they have been a rehashed copy of EQ1 almost every one that has come out in the last few years is basically the same shit.
As a customer I have every right to bitch about a product I bought and you damn right I want the game to have elements in designed for me who wouldn't. You bash me for wanting game systems that I like yet you are championing the same thing while bashing others. You my friend are just as entitled.
Carbine said that they were making a game for the hardcore. Due to your time restrictions, you sound like a casual and the game isn't for you. I dont' understand why a game should waste its time making an easier version of itself ( which is not that hard to begin with ) so you can go pug a few instances in your short amount of time just because of the fact that you bought the game. The guy sounded like a rant and he sounded pretty angry and passionate about his feelings but what he said holds some truth to it in which MMO's are being tailored for single player gaming because people like instant gratification.
In all honesty, to get silver on any of these dungeons and adventures is really easy once you learn the mechanics to it. If you can't stay out of red or interrupt mobs in these vets, then you need to learn how to do it... its that simple. Don't say that you can't pug anything in this game because I got gold in all the vet adventures with pugs... and finding a static 5 man from the hundreds of players logged in every day to knock out your silver attunement for vet dungeons can easily be done.
Here's some tips.
1) Pug a vet dungeon or run it in a static 5 man
2) Learn the dungeon.
3) Run it until you can beat it w/o any wipes
4) Add those people to your friend list.
5) Run it for silver or gold.
DONE
Well we will see in 6 months how these sentiments will affect the Wildstar population.
Maybe those people who would normally post a lot of hate threads are still playing wildstar.
It's one possibility, or maybe the retention rate wasn't very good.
Another possibility for sure. I guess only time will really tell. I'm no longer playing Wildstar after the first month. I don't hate the game, but I think I might of burned out a bit during the closed beta I was in for 6 months. I just couldn't bring myself to re-level in the game lol.
Don't get me wrong though. Wildstar is a great mmo. I'm happy that people are enjoying it. I hope it makes a good profit and sticks around for years to come. I'm sure i'll go back to it in 6 months to a year.
Its funny how some of the people quitting Wildstar, thinks they are speaking for a mass of people. If so many people are quitting why isn't there more hate posts like this one. I totally disagree about tons and tons of people quitting. The queue times have only decreased, the zones are still full of people.
If the game is so bad, why all the reviews been so positive?
I think a lot of people were on the fence about jumping into this mmo, but as another positive review comes out, more people are jumping into the game. You only need so much marketing to get started, the experience sells itself.
Its hard to sell a turd, doesn't matter how much marketing you do, its still a turd. This game by far isn't a turd. I think people just expect to beat a mmo in a month, which isn't gonna happen in this game for sure. If you got skills, you will continue to play this game. If you do not? Well, your prolly gonna come here and post a discussion like this one.
Its fine you don't like this game, but telling people you don't like this game, and you personally know tons of people like you are quitting for the same reason, (like you know a lot of people playing this game), because its hard, is kinda lame. Which I think you want a lot of people to stop playing, so that carbine will nerf the game, or make it go free to play. Which carbine isn't going to because you wasn't the targeted player they are looking for. They are only targeting specific audience, which sounds like your not one of them.
If I am wrong, please provide the proof tons of people are quitting for the same reason.
Its funny how some of the people quitting Wildstar, thinks they are speaking for a mass of people. If so many people are quitting why isn't there more hate posts like this one. I totally disagree about tons and tons of people quitting. The queue times have only decreased, the zones are still full of people.
If the game is so bad, why all the reviews been so positive?
I think a lot of people were on the fence about jumping into this mmo, but as another positive review comes out, more people are jumping into the game. You only need so much marketing to get started, the experience sells itself.
Its hard to sell a turd, doesn't matter how much marketing you do, its still a turd. This game by far isn't a turd. I think people just expect to beat a mmo in a month, which isn't gonna happen in this game for sure. If you got skills, you will continue to play this game. If you do not? Well, your prolly gonna come here and post a discussion like this one.
Its fine you don't like this game, but telling people you don't like this game, and you personally know tons of people like you are quitting for the same reason, (like you know a lot of people playing this game), because its hard, is kinda lame. Which I think you want a lot of people to stop playing, so that carbine will nerf the game, or make it go free to play. Which carbine isn't going to because you wasn't the targeted player they are looking for. They are only targeting specific audience, which sounds like your not one of them.
If I am wrong, please provide the proof tons of people are quitting for the same reason.
There is no proof yet, everyone's experience will be different and anecdotal at this point. I do know that last time I logged in before my free month expired most of my 75 man guild was gone and the world didn't have many people in it. I'm sure there are other servers bustling with activity and full 24/7 too. It's just too early to tell what the population is doing beyond what one person experiences on their server. WildStar is indeed a great game, but it's plagued by small issues that cripple it's ability to hold players for years instead of just months. I do look forward to playing it again down the road when they fix the game up some, as it does have a lot interesting concepts.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Is it a special key or a Support/Utility skill because frankly the game does poor job at explaining me how stun break works. I'm trying to dodge and shit but meh. Once the heavy hitting starts im flat faced to the ground and easily lose 50% HP. In a game where running with a healer around is a requirement (trinity ) that's huge chunk of HP to lose at the start of a fight.
And lol the CC resistant mobs are such turnoff Pretty much like the defiant mobs in Gw2. I don't like them there either.
I agree it could do a better job explaining the CC in the game and how the breakout effects work. Assuming you don't have a removal available which all classes get:
Stun -> Hold the key that pops up on your screen. Typically W, A, S, or D if you have default movement controls.
Stun can be broken with CC break
Knockdown -> Dodge roll in any direction to quickly get out of it.
Disorient -> Controls are changed for the duration, simply adjust.
can be broken with CC break
Blind -> Screen is obscured, you can still see some areas of the screen so try to adjust.
can be broken with CC beak
Root/Snare -> No breakout gameplay.
can dodge roll out of this to break it
Tether -> An object will be placed on the ground you need to deal enough damage to. If you try to run outside the tether range you'll be pulled back into it.
hard no.. tedious yes..i myself couldnt bare to play past 30+ the game got super bland and everything was the same and im just not saying that..the lvling reminded me of Asian grind mmo with hubs that all have the same quests / task or what ever ppl wanna dress them up to be
im always hearing people saying get to 50 the game explodes at max lvl! ..imo if i have to rush to enjoy a mmo at max lvl it isnt worth my time nor is that fun being max lvl and waiting in lobbys and doing these so called "end game" stuff..in mmorpgs for me the game starts as soon as i log in and have fun..not rushing to max lvl just to do this "end game " filler/garbage till next xpan.
i know you dont HAVE to rush to max lvl but basicly thats what youll want to do in this mmo..that or be bored to death doing the uber boreing story and quests that are all the same ...not to mention how bad the armor and weapons never seem to have any change to it..like having a lvl 1 sword looking the same or not very diff from a sword that some guy has raided his ass off for 3 days for..sure iv played mmos that arent very flashy but its going on 2015 and a lil flash and more thought coulda gone a long way here in this game
i hated leveling until level 30... from then on it went a lot quicker and i enjoyed the zones i was in a lot more.. dunno
The fundamental problem with Wildstar is how unfriendly it is to random pick-up groups. What is the point of playing a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game if your entire experience is self-contained to about 10-15 people in your guild? The dungeons and adventures are not impossible, but they require a level of coordination that you just don't get from 5 people who have never played together before.
Sometimes I miss games like EverQuest. People bring up EverQuest a lot when talking about old, difficult MMORPGs, but almost all content in that game could be done with a group of random strangers.
I'm not going to argue points on what is considered casual, who sucks at games, who can / can't pug, etc. There are 5 guys at my office that started playing, 3 in beta, and all have dropped the game within 2 months. The game as a whole is not intuitive, nor fun at it's current difficulty level... yeah, across the board. It may still be successful in the long run, but success in the mmo sphere is when you have a good mix of hard core gamers AND tons of casual gamers. There are not enough hard core gamers to keep a game in business...
That said, I'm out as well. It's just not fun at the current difficulty level. I'm not asking for an easy game, just make it playable for more folks, otherwise nobody is around to group with, guild with or even chat with etc.
There is something bothering me about the general consensus that Wildstar's dungeons/raids are too difficult for "casual" players. It's not! The term "casual" doesn't imply "herp derp", it just means that they don't spend 20 + hours a week on the game or they don't chose to participate in large scale raiding.
In fact Wildstar's telegraph system is one of the fairest least gear dependent systems I have ever seen. Most damage is totally avoidable (tanks excluded) which basically means if you don't stand in poop you win. There is far less RNG involved than in games like WoW.
I think the one thing Carbine should incorporate is some 10 man end game content on par with the 20/40 mans. In my opinion the best raiding model ever was WoW back in TBC. You had 10 the option of doing either 10 or 25 or both through most of the expansion. Kara was kind of the entry level 10 man raid when you got to 70 (after attunement) but once you had the gear you could also add in Gruuls and Magtheridon (sp?). This model worked out well because 10 mans are very PuG-able and that was where most people met their guilds (if they didn't already have one), this held true even in T5 as you had ZA.
So I would encourage Carbine to add some 10 or 8 man content for end game for each tier!
Also remember, that game communities aren't build by the devs, they are built by the players. Help people out when you can, encourage don't discourage. If someone isn't doing something right help them constructively. No one ever learned by being told "you should uninstall you baddie!!".
Casual is about play style, not limited play time. There are plenty of people who have limited time to play, but are very hardcore when they do play. Just as there are plenty of casual gamers who have plenty of time to play, but are very casual in their approach to a game's systems. I wouldn't be surprised if most true casual gamers just aren't interested in hardcore mechanics and content, simply because it doesn't appeal to them, not because they lack the time or the skill to do it.
Sometimes I miss games like EverQuest. People bring up EverQuest a lot when talking about old, difficult MMORPGs, but almost all content in that game could be done with a group of random strangers.
You answered your own question. EQ had the illusion of difficulty due to harsh group mechanics, much like FFXI did. The actual content or battles were ridiculously easy compared to today. You were fighting terrible game mechanics more than great boss mechanics.
I am as casual as it gets; I do not have the time to put 3 hours daily in Wildstar and it shows in my gameplay.
Between gameplay sessions I constantly forget some mechanics and I die a lot in PvE; PvP is acceptable but lacking at the moment in this game.
The solution is simple: find another game
I can tell you right now that I like Wildstar and I welcome their increase level of difficulty, but as a casual player I cannot practice enough at the moment so I went back to GW2 while either a more suited MMO comes along or I have at least 2 free hours every other day to play Wildstar.
This game is awesome if you are a skilled player or you have time to play it more than a couple of hours a week; if those that complain about Wildstar being to hard despite spending 12+ hours a week in the game I think should find a more forgiving MMO (WoD will release soon and might be exactly what can replace it).
Did I fall into a pocket dimension? Who has been saying Wildstar is hardcore? It's one of the more casual MMOs out there. Hell, it outright brags that it's like WoW, which has always been the most casual MMO on the market.
Originally posted by DMKano It's pretty shocking to me how fast the hype died down for Wildstar.I mean look at how praised and well reviewed it was by MMORPG - and hardly anyone is even talking about it here anymore.Also I looked at reddit - it's half the traffic it had a couple of weeks ago. Not sure if this has anything to do with difficulty - but it sure seems to be lacking staying power.
Actully i was kinda shocked as well.. 7 years of work , polished game , so much to offer. But if you think about it hard enough you come the conclusion that it came out in the wrong time. IF wildstar came out like 5-6 years ago i think it would have been a success but now days a pure theme park game with p2p payment is "mission impossible" , people seen so many of those games by now and got so many of those avialable for free all around the net. Hell even i after watching some videos and reading about the game just couldnt convince my self to buy it because i knew it wont last more then a month or 2 at best. Its the same old formula hidden behind few "new" mechanics.
What killed the game for me, was the optimization, i don`t know why, but i could barely run the game on medium and get good frames.
gtx 760
8gb ram
i7 4770k 4.2 ghz
So yeah when i was leveling, it was just dreadful. Couldn`t get myself to log in anymore, i haven`t un subbed yet though, I`ve been playing archeage a lot and having a lot of fun.
Comments
I agree. The problem with difficulty (a lot of which is artificial in WS and achieved simply by raising hp levels) is that it takes more time to complete and is generally not pug-friendly.
If I have an hour in an evening that I can spend gaming (which is quite normal) I am not going to spend it queueing for a group, only to wipe and then have the group disband; I am going to spend it on a different mmo where I have a realistic opportunity to complete some of the content. This is why I quit WS, I simply don't have the time or the flexibility to set aside entire evenings to stare unblinkingly at my monitor during a raid; I think many gamers are in the same position as me (particularly with the average age of gamers rising).
People often conflate casual with lazy or inept; to me it simply means I cannot set aside huge chunks of time to play a game with WS' design criteria.
So you may be to young to have played WoW when it released. Vanilla had some of the hardest dungeons I have played. The dungeons in this have somewhat of the same feel to them, but not quite as difficult. But like any dungeon it all depends on your group and if you are working well together. It's not at all like WoWs current Diablo style of dungeons where you just go in and start hacking and slashing and are finished in 15 minutes. I'm afraid that WS will slowly be transitioned into another MoP to appease the masses. Either games are way to hard or to easy!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
The attunement is really poorly done. It's not that the game is too hard, but that the attunement will force most casuals out from the very beginning. I realize they were making raids for the "hardcore", but I think they overdid it.
I'm a hardcore player in every aspect, but I just couldn't do Wildstar raiding because I have a job where I work late at night during US primetime hours. I tried, but the attunement was just taking too long to get into raiding and was too costly in terms of repair builds so I was spending all my time in game working on attunement and farming, but not enjoying other aspects of the game. I had to give it up even though I enjoyed the game's combat because I was doing nothing but playing Wildstar in a way that was not enjoyable to me.
First off, for attunement you need to grind up rep. Depending on how much faction you have to begin with from questing leveling up (if you didn't quest leveling up and leveled by other means, well woe is you) you are looking at a fairly long grind of adventures or going back and doing quests. The questing system in Wildstar is one of the worst I've seen in MMOs to date, so this feels like the massive grind it is, and alternatively you can do veteran adventures, but that gets repetitive with only 4 veteran adventures to do and only rewarding around 250 rep per (you need 42000 if I remember correctly).
Once you finish that massive grind you have a few solo steps then you move on to veteran adventures which you have to achieve at least a silver on. Veteran adventures are a massive step up in difficulty from solo questing (Wildstar has severe content pacing issues IMO), but they are still doable for the most part in a PUG; however that can be like playing Russian Roulette so I'd recommend at this point getting your guild to help.
After that you have some more solo stuff and then eventually you have to get silver on all dungeons. Even if you can be carried by people who have done this already, you have to speed run each dungeon which means you have to output a good amount of DPS and not die, or be a good tank/healer while completing all the optionals that aren't challenges. The dungeons are once again a huge difficulty jump from adventures, with really nothing in between them to prepare you. Just getting your gear to a level competent enough to speed run these dungeons is a huge grind in and of itself, and you pretty much have to learn the dungeons in and out to silver them.
Finally, after more solo steps you have to kill every outdoor raid boss in the game (I'm not counting the step that ends with the optional boss in KV because that's a cakewalk compared to silvering the dungeons). I think there are 10 total. While these aren't terribly difficult you're going to have to rely on a guild to go back and do the attunement with you, at least for some of the harder raid bosses.
This is an Everquest level attunement grind, with a difficulty that really doesn't match what the first boss you experience in Genetic Archives is. I really think they could tone down the difficulty. The worst part of the attunement is that step completion is not retroactive, so you have to do all the steps in order. Want to work on veteran dungeons and adventures while working on your rep grind and maybe downing a few of the outdoor raid bosses? Nope. You have to follow the steps in order and that makes it even more frustrating and longer than it should be.
Every class has at least one ability to break out of CC (in addition to basic dodging). I believe they are in the Utility skill line for every class.
Try reading the skill descriptions to get see which ones. For example: Spellslinger - Utility - Void Slip: Removes all CC effects...
Or Warrior - Utility - Unstoppable Force: Break free of all CC effects. Become immune to CC for X seconds.
Or Stalker - Utility - Tactical Retreat (needs to be upgraded to Tier4)
Medic - Utility - Calm (or Urgency upgraded ot Tier4)
Esper - Utility - Fade Out
Engineer - Utility - Shatter Impairment
A lot of those classes have more than 1 way to break out of CC, but that's just what I found taking a quick second to look at the abilities. If you still can't find the CC breaks, try looking at the upgraded versions of some of those skills to see what the benefits are.
I agree it could do a better job explaining the CC in the game and how the breakout effects work. Assuming you don't have a removal available which all classes get:
Stun -> Hold the key that pops up on your screen. Typically W, A, S, or D if you have default movement controls.
Knockdown -> Dodge roll in any direction to quickly get out of it.
Disorient -> Controls are changed for the duration, simply adjust.
Blind -> Screen is obscured, you can still see some areas of the screen so try to adjust.
Root/Snare -> No breakout gameplay.
Tether -> An object will be placed on the ground you need to deal enough damage to. If you try to run outside the tether range you'll be pulled back into it.
Vanilla dungeons were not tough at all maybe for some being new to mmos which was definitely the case for many back then. More often than not I remember the only difficulty was trying to organize people to run these and the length of time it took to complete them which sometimes was 3-4 hours hello BRD! Also 40 man raiding in vanilla was a joke yes I did all the content up til AQ 40 even dabbled in Naxx as well. I remember often how really only about 15 or so players would carry the rest of the afkers and the poor dpsers. Too many people are way to nostalgic about this time period in WoW the game might have been tough to some but no where near as inaccessible as Wildstar's end game is right now. By the way Amjoco I'd love a link to your wow armory profile to see if you actually achieved in some of the harder content wow has.
I totally disagree that making Wildstar's end game more accessible would hurt the game. Having multiple difficulties would go along way in providing content for all player types that enjoy Wildstar's IP. Again people knock WoW for using this model of having their content more accessible and so far it has worked pretty well. Yah I know trolls WoW is losing subs and the only reason I think they are is that well it is a old game and people get tired of playing the same game for 10 years.
Bottom line is that Wildstar made a theme park wowish clone that copies a lot of great ideas from EQ1 and WoW but really fails to learn what these and other mmo companies have learned over the last 10 years. Casuals pay the bills bottom line!
Makes me wonder if you've played through and gotten a silver or gold in all of Wildstar's veteran dungeons, because I find that statement to be simply untrue.
In Vanilla WoW you could complete Strat and SM in 10 man parties and UBRS in 15 man parties. For the most part these could all be done in PUGs with no coordination. The only difficult dungeon at release was BRD, but that was more difficult due to time and only the sections that were NOT required for attunement at the end (the gauntlet and Emperor) were difficult for a 5 man party. Still, it wasn't nearly as difficult as getting a silver on the easiest Wildstar veteran dungeon.
When they removed the ability to go into Strat and SM with a 10 man party (and brought UBRS down to 10) people already had completed many of the raids and were geared, making the 5 man versions (where they also reduced the difficulty) of these dungeons fairly simple with any raid geared player. Even so, the difficulty nerf brought things down in line. I remember running AoE groups in Strat on the living side to farm righteous orbs and we didn't even use a tank it was that easy.
On the other hand Wildstar's veteran dungeons are a wipefest and you are required to speed run them for the attunement. Simply doing one on silver is a feat in and of itself much less mastering them all. By far the hardest dungeons in a game thus far. I think the hardest point WoW ever had for dungeons was TBC Heroics at the start of TBC before they got hit by nerfs. I still think that's easier than say high level fractals in GW2 or even Arah runs, and it compares in no way to the difficulty of Wildstar's dungeons (which are also VERY buggy and rarely have scripts work properly).
hard no.. tedious yes..i myself couldnt bare to play past 30+ the game got super bland and everything was the same and im just not saying that..the lvling reminded me of Asian grind mmo with hubs that all have the same quests / task or what ever ppl wanna dress them up to be
im always hearing people saying get to 50 the game explodes at max lvl! ..imo if i have to rush to enjoy a mmo at max lvl it isnt worth my time nor is that fun being max lvl and waiting in lobbys and doing these so called "end game" stuff..in mmorpgs for me the game starts as soon as i log in and have fun..not rushing to max lvl just to do this "end game " filler/garbage till next xpan.
i know you dont HAVE to rush to max lvl but basicly thats what youll want to do in this mmo..that or be bored to death doing the uber boreing story and quests that are all the same ...not to mention how bad the armor and weapons never seem to have any change to it..like having a lvl 1 sword looking the same or not very diff from a sword that some guy has raided his ass off for 3 days for..sure iv played mmos that arent very flashy but its going on 2015 and a lil flash and more thought coulda gone a long way here in this game
Carbine said that they were making a game for the hardcore. Due to your time restrictions, you sound like a casual and the game isn't for you. I dont' understand why a game should waste its time making an easier version of itself ( which is not that hard to begin with ) so you can go pug a few instances in your short amount of time just because of the fact that you bought the game. The guy sounded like a rant and he sounded pretty angry and passionate about his feelings but what he said holds some truth to it in which MMO's are being tailored for single player gaming because people like instant gratification.
In all honesty, to get silver on any of these dungeons and adventures is really easy once you learn the mechanics to it. If you can't stay out of red or interrupt mobs in these vets, then you need to learn how to do it... its that simple. Don't say that you can't pug anything in this game because I got gold in all the vet adventures with pugs... and finding a static 5 man from the hundreds of players logged in every day to knock out your silver attunement for vet dungeons can easily be done.
Here's some tips.
1) Pug a vet dungeon or run it in a static 5 man
2) Learn the dungeon.
3) Run it until you can beat it w/o any wipes
4) Add those people to your friend list.
5) Run it for silver or gold.
DONE
Well we will see in 6 months how these sentiments will affect the Wildstar population.
Another possibility for sure. I guess only time will really tell. I'm no longer playing Wildstar after the first month. I don't hate the game, but I think I might of burned out a bit during the closed beta I was in for 6 months. I just couldn't bring myself to re-level in the game lol.
Don't get me wrong though. Wildstar is a great mmo. I'm happy that people are enjoying it. I hope it makes a good profit and sticks around for years to come. I'm sure i'll go back to it in 6 months to a year.
Its funny how some of the people quitting Wildstar, thinks they are speaking for a mass of people. If so many people are quitting why isn't there more hate posts like this one. I totally disagree about tons and tons of people quitting. The queue times have only decreased, the zones are still full of people.
If the game is so bad, why all the reviews been so positive?
I think a lot of people were on the fence about jumping into this mmo, but as another positive review comes out, more people are jumping into the game. You only need so much marketing to get started, the experience sells itself.
Its hard to sell a turd, doesn't matter how much marketing you do, its still a turd. This game by far isn't a turd. I think people just expect to beat a mmo in a month, which isn't gonna happen in this game for sure. If you got skills, you will continue to play this game. If you do not? Well, your prolly gonna come here and post a discussion like this one.
Its fine you don't like this game, but telling people you don't like this game, and you personally know tons of people like you are quitting for the same reason, (like you know a lot of people playing this game), because its hard, is kinda lame. Which I think you want a lot of people to stop playing, so that carbine will nerf the game, or make it go free to play. Which carbine isn't going to because you wasn't the targeted player they are looking for. They are only targeting specific audience, which sounds like your not one of them.
If I am wrong, please provide the proof tons of people are quitting for the same reason.
There is no proof yet, everyone's experience will be different and anecdotal at this point. I do know that last time I logged in before my free month expired most of my 75 man guild was gone and the world didn't have many people in it. I'm sure there are other servers bustling with activity and full 24/7 too. It's just too early to tell what the population is doing beyond what one person experiences on their server. WildStar is indeed a great game, but it's plagued by small issues that cripple it's ability to hold players for years instead of just months. I do look forward to playing it again down the road when they fix the game up some, as it does have a lot interesting concepts.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
i hated leveling until level 30... from then on it went a lot quicker and i enjoyed the zones i was in a lot more.. dunno
The fundamental problem with Wildstar is how unfriendly it is to random pick-up groups. What is the point of playing a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game if your entire experience is self-contained to about 10-15 people in your guild? The dungeons and adventures are not impossible, but they require a level of coordination that you just don't get from 5 people who have never played together before.
Sometimes I miss games like EverQuest. People bring up EverQuest a lot when talking about old, difficult MMORPGs, but almost all content in that game could be done with a group of random strangers.
I'm not going to argue points on what is considered casual, who sucks at games, who can / can't pug, etc. There are 5 guys at my office that started playing, 3 in beta, and all have dropped the game within 2 months. The game as a whole is not intuitive, nor fun at it's current difficulty level... yeah, across the board. It may still be successful in the long run, but success in the mmo sphere is when you have a good mix of hard core gamers AND tons of casual gamers. There are not enough hard core gamers to keep a game in business...
That said, I'm out as well. It's just not fun at the current difficulty level. I'm not asking for an easy game, just make it playable for more folks, otherwise nobody is around to group with, guild with or even chat with etc.
Casual is about play style, not limited play time. There are plenty of people who have limited time to play, but are very hardcore when they do play. Just as there are plenty of casual gamers who have plenty of time to play, but are very casual in their approach to a game's systems. I wouldn't be surprised if most true casual gamers just aren't interested in hardcore mechanics and content, simply because it doesn't appeal to them, not because they lack the time or the skill to do it.
You answered your own question. EQ had the illusion of difficulty due to harsh group mechanics, much like FFXI did. The actual content or battles were ridiculously easy compared to today. You were fighting terrible game mechanics more than great boss mechanics.
I am as casual as it gets; I do not have the time to put 3 hours daily in Wildstar and it shows in my gameplay.
Between gameplay sessions I constantly forget some mechanics and I die a lot in PvE; PvP is acceptable but lacking at the moment in this game.
The solution is simple: find another game
I can tell you right now that I like Wildstar and I welcome their increase level of difficulty, but as a casual player I cannot practice enough at the moment so I went back to GW2 while either a more suited MMO comes along or I have at least 2 free hours every other day to play Wildstar.
This game is awesome if you are a skilled player or you have time to play it more than a couple of hours a week; if those that complain about Wildstar being to hard despite spending 12+ hours a week in the game I think should find a more forgiving MMO (WoD will release soon and might be exactly what can replace it).
V.
Actully i was kinda shocked as well.. 7 years of work , polished game , so much to offer.
But if you think about it hard enough you come the conclusion that it came out in the wrong time. IF wildstar came out like 5-6 years ago i think it would have been a success but now days a pure theme park game with p2p payment is "mission impossible" , people seen so many of those games by now and got so many of those avialable for free all around the net.
Hell even i after watching some videos and reading about the game just couldnt convince my self to buy it because i knew it wont last more then a month or 2 at best.
Its the same old formula hidden behind few "new" mechanics.
gtx 760
8gb ram
i7 4770k 4.2 ghz
So yeah when i was leveling, it was just dreadful. Couldn`t get myself to log in anymore, i haven`t un subbed yet though, I`ve been playing archeage a lot and having a lot of fun.