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ArcheAge is NOT pay to win

kkchenkkchen Member UncommonPosts: 9

I've been seeing lots of threads and posts about how this game is P2W mainly because of the LP and the CS LP Potions.

This is not pay to win.

If you guys think this is P2W then you have never played some of the seriously play to win games. LIKE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS BECAUSE SKINS MEAN WINS

Examples:

Games with ridiculous upgrading systems like Perfect World. Less than 1% chance to succeed. On fail break your end-game weapon you got after 50 dungeons. Only protection for breaking/success increase? In the cash shop. Benefit: 10x the damage versus a F2P. Or better yet 25$ for a +1 refine. 100$ for a +5.

Games where you literally buy power. Again Perfect World, about 200$ for legendary pets (basically required for pvp). Atlantica Online, you can buy mercenaries that are way more powerful than end game characters. The only way to win tournaments, pvp, or anything.


First the 150$ Alpha:

Somehow this has become a point towards P2W/"Trion sucks." You choose to pay the 150$ so you get to play the game a couple months earlier. "But 150$ is a disgustingly large amount of money for alpha." Then don't pay it. No advantages here.


LP/LP regen/LP Pots:

This gated system, while annoying, is not anywhere close to P2W. It's faster but you still get the same items in the end. Even then it's not THAT much faster. (2x, 3x faster even is fine. Games mentioned above have systems that you can grind towards also, but it's on the level of 1 day vs 1 year for full gear)

"If I subscribe I shouldn't need to have my LP capped"

This is actually closer to P2W. But it still remains that the buyer will still have to actually play the game to make use of that LP. (Although the viability of this is a different discussion, I support making LP uncapped for personal, selfish reasons)


Last note:
You can buy CS stuff with in-game gold, is not really a valid argument against P2W. It's all about the amount of time it would take to make that much gold. If a buyer can buy all the items (read gear) that would take a grinder a month to grind in the matter of seconds, it's still fairly P2W. But what you're paying for is basically 2x the speed, which is still reasonable. Hell, that's what being a subscriber basically is. And even then you still have to actually go and play the game to get the mats the extra LP got you.


Conclusion:
ArcheAge is nowhere near P2W.

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Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Playing free has always meant it would take you longer to do the same things as a paying player. The LP complaint falls under that same thing. If its that important to you to be competative pay the sub.
  • TbauTbau Member Posts: 401
    Originally posted by kkchen

    I've been seeing lots of threads and posts about how this game is P2W mainly because of the LP and the CS LP Potions.

    This is not pay to win.

    Does having Patron (which requires paying) give you MORE? Its Pay to Win.

    Does having Patron allow you to have land and farms? its pay to win.

    LP = more crafting = more items to sell and materials to do trade runs.

    Housing is something you can only have if you pay and farms = more materials again.

    P2W = gaining more, faster or gaining something you cannot get without paying.

     

    Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

  • laz3rNach0zlaz3rNach0z Member Posts: 59
    well im going to pay because for me its better viable having more mechanics for me to use and free play is viable but for some pay is more viable u just have to decide what is important more for u and i want more out of the game so p2w it is! not mad tho
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157

    Yes but I think the whole (Labor Points) system needs to be completely removed from the game as other game shave tried this and Failed.

    . Age OF Wushu

    . Black Gold

    Both these games fail, instead they need to make the game based around full sand-box get rid Labor Points all together put an optional (Pay 2 Play) Subscription service, keep it similar to GW2, no Labor Points advantages and such just get rid of the system all together.

    I think  Arche Age will be a failure it might start out just as popular as GW2 did but then the population will decline.

    There is Pay 2 Win, but then there is Pay 2 Enjoy, Pay to Advance or grind your character off grinding all day long to get somewhere.

  • XatshXatsh Member RarePosts: 451

    Does paying money allow you to do things you cannot without paying?

    Does paying money give you an advantage over those who do not?

    Does someone paying $100 a month get more then someone paying $15 a month?

    If you answer yes to any of those, you have a p2w game. True f2p games are like LoL and Path of Exile where it is almost purly cosmetic things. The problem is that model is not sustainable really, at least not to the level they want. And you cannot market  this. Archeage the worlds best Pay to Win sandbox out there. BUY YOUR WAY TO FAME AND FORTUNE!!!!

    In archeage you cannot even play half the game without the patron (Sub) status. The problem is that lockout + the fact you have a cash shop on top of that. You basically have a sub game with a cash shop selling items that will progress you above and beyond those who do not pay. That is a blatent P2W model.

    Archeage is a great game (Well not as much as the orriginal version) but even with the crap they added in 1.1 and 1.2 it is still good. But the payment model will turn many many ppl away. The problem is the game is designed to force you into the cash shop to buy things. The cash shop should be there as a bonus. Not a requirement.

  • TankYou88TankYou88 Member Posts: 310
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by kkchen

    I've been seeing lots of threads and posts about how this game is P2W mainly because of the LP and the CS LP Potions.

    This is not pay to win.

    Does having Patron (which requires paying) give you MORE? Its Pay to Win.

    Does having Patron allow you to have land and farms? its pay to win.

    LP = more crafting = more items to sell and materials to do trade runs.

    Housing is something you can only have if you pay and farms = more materials again.

    P2W = gaining more, faster or gaining something you cannot get without paying.

     

    Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

    Pay to win is having an unfair advantage against someone who doesnt pay. That is not the case. You can pay, with in game gold, people to use their LP for you = 0 dollars spent.

    So someone with $0 has available to them the same that someone who pays has.

  • pinktailzpinktailz Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Only pure idiot can think this game is P2W lol, they put too much effort in it. P2W games uses different approach.
  • TbauTbau Member Posts: 401
    Originally posted by TankYou88

     Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

    Pay to win is having an unfair advantage against someone who doesnt pay. That is not the case. You can pay, with in game gold, people to use their LP for you = 0 dollars spent.

    So someone with $0 has available to them the same that someone who pays has.

    1. You MUST be a patron to own land.

    2. Being able to eventually get something without paying does not remove the P2W factor because PAYING means you get it with no effort.

    3. PAYING for patron status gets me INSTANT land ownership rights AND more LP and thus, its an unfair advantage.

    So again, read the part of my own quote that I left for you.

  • kkchenkkchen Member UncommonPosts: 9

    Originally posted by Tbau

    Originally posted by kkchen

    I've been seeing lots of threads and posts about how this game is P2W mainly because of the LP and the CS LP Potions.

    This is not pay to win.

    Does having Patron (which requires paying) give you MORE? Its Pay to Win.

    Does having Patron allow you to have land and farms? its pay to win.

    LP = more crafting = more items to sell and materials to do trade runs.

    Housing is something you can only have if you pay and farms = more materials again.

    P2W = gaining more, faster or gaining something you cannot get without paying.

     

    Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

     

    Getting things a little faster doesn't make it pay to win. Pay to win is where you either have access to power/things F2P players can't possibly get, or can only get after spending significant more time. I'm talking months compared to seconds. 2x faster isn't that bad. Even more so when you consider that you still have to play the game to take advantage of the LP. With how you define pay to win, literally every single game would be pay to win. Give me a game I will show you why it is with this definition. (Wildstar, GW2, WoW, anything)

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818

    I'm really starting to see why people hate the f2p "culture" so much. The idea that if you can't do everything for free means it's p2w is just ridiculous but here they are talking like an expert. A sub is now p2w ...../facepalm Are games now only allowed to offer cosmetics in a sub ?

    I don't think warren buffet or bill gates have anything to worry about from this generation of gamers. The welfare office might be a bit concerned though.

     

  • TankYou88TankYou88 Member Posts: 310
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by TankYou88

     Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

    Pay to win is having an unfair advantage against someone who doesnt pay. That is not the case. You can pay, with in game gold, people to use their LP for you = 0 dollars spent.

    So someone with $0 has available to them the same that someone who pays has.

    1. You MUST be a patron to own land.

    2. Being able to eventually get something without paying does not remove the P2W factor because PAYING means you get it with no effort.

    So again, read the part of my own quote that I left for you.

    Owning land doesnt equal pay to win. If you want land you can pay the sub. Does not equal pay to win and you can still make money and get all the items you want without it, besides a house.

    You havent seen the Cash shop so you dont know what is in it.

    2. Is not an unfair advantage. Spending more time in a game does not mean you are less of a player.

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk Member UncommonPosts: 381
    wish AA  to have some  sub only servers and leave f2p one for p2w whiners. 

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  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by TankYou88

     Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

    Pay to win is having an unfair advantage against someone who doesnt pay. That is not the case. You can pay, with in game gold, people to use their LP for you = 0 dollars spent.

    So someone with $0 has available to them the same that someone who pays has.

    1. You MUST be a patron to own land.

    2. Being able to eventually get something without paying does not remove the P2W factor because PAYING means you get it with no effort.

    3. PAYING for patron status gets me INSTANT land ownership rights AND more LP and thus, its an unfair advantage.

    So again, read the part of my own quote that I left for you.

    You are right again ....just like in real life it's p2w and only someone with nothing owned claims the best things in life are free

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Originally posted by negativf4kk
    wish AA  to have some  sub only servers and leave f2p one for p2w whiners. 

    +100 you hit the nail right on the head ....free to play servers can be called the bush leagues or the minors

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,373
    Is the situation the same for everyone in the game, yes or no?  Does something give others an advantage by paying, yes or no? Circumstancial questions at best yet this is how people will look at it.
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Playing free has always meant it would take you longer to do the same things as a paying player. The LP complaint falls under that same thing. If its that important to you to be competative pay the sub.

    Use LP pots or subscribe... It's both a convenient purchase to speed up the LP regen over playing totally free. And as OP said, it's only a 2x regen compared to a free player, and that does not really make it Pay2Win.

    On the cash shop. It just got implemented in the game and so far I can't see a single Pay2Win item in it. There are a few items behind the subscription 'wall' and none of those are game breaking either, just an other couple of convenient items.

    Only thing that might be considered game breaking are those 2 special mounts in the cash shop and the special armor. The run faster than their normal counterpart (though one special horse you can buy on Mirage Isle), and the armor is not overly protective for the mounts (level 20 minimum).

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    what the industry is trying to do is to bring in players who would normally shy away from playing at a $15 a month price point.

    That seems fair enough, how that is done however should be clear cut and easy to follow.

    Making more than $15 a month off of hard core players is also fair (imo) HOWEVER, the game content has to be worth it.

    the farming, housing system is a bit for shit in archeage honesty, the ships though look like its a sweet system

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092
    Originally posted by negativf4kk
    wish AA  to have some  sub only servers and leave f2p one for p2w whiners. 

    I think AA was actually to be setup as a full subscription MMO from the start, where XLgames later changed to Free2Play with subscription as optional giving some benefits...

    I don't think I'd play on a 100% sub server though. Just look at how Alpha is now. All farm land is taken and new players can't place a farm anywhere (not even the small 8x8 ones). This is because each & every player in alpha is a subscription player.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by kkchen

    I've been seeing lots of threads and posts about how this game is P2W mainly because of the LP and the CS LP Potions.

    This is not pay to win.

    Does having Patron (which requires paying) give you MORE? Its Pay to Win.

    Does having Patron allow you to have land and farms? its pay to win.

    LP = more crafting = more items to sell and materials to do trade runs.

    Housing is something you can only have if you pay and farms = more materials again.

    P2W = gaining more, faster or gaining something you cannot get without paying.

     

    Just because you like Archeage (and I love the Japanese version BTW) does not mean all definitions can be tossed aside. The game is what it is and right now, its P2W.

    This is what happens when companies go F2P in a half-assed way.

    I agree with this assessment. P2W for me has always been using real life cash to buy any in game advantage. Anything beyond cosmetics in a cash shop is a form of P2W in my opinion. Even Rift, as much as I love it and as free as it has, sells raid gear in the cash shop. Granted it's lower tier raid gear, but it's still there.

    Any advantage over another player bought for real life cash to me will always be P2W, even if it is obtainable in game.

     

    P2W is a subjective term, and this conversation has been had ad nauseam, as each person defines P2W differently. This topic is a moot point.

     

    What Trion should really do is make it sub based with no restrictions or cash shop, and then have F2P only servers where they can milk the whales and it doesn't affect those of us who would rather play a game on even footing.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • LaraiLarai Member UncommonPosts: 8

    The part that only Patrons can own land is necessary though. People on the Alpha servers already take advantage of the fact you can have four characters on a server and use them to grab up a bunch of land. All the plots are already taken. Imagine if the infinite number of free accounts could come in and consume all the land in an instant. The only other way around that would be to only allow free accounts to own land if they buy tax slips from the cash shop. But at that point they might as well just sign up for Patron status.

  • SevalaSevala Member UncommonPosts: 220
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I'm really starting to see why people hate the f2p "culture" so much. The idea that if you can't do everything for free means it's p2w is just ridiculous but here they are talking like an expert. A sub is now p2w ...../facepalm Are games now only allowed to offer cosmetics in a sub ?

    I don't think warren buffet or bill gates have anything to worry about from this generation of gamers. The welfare office might be a bit concerned though.

     

     

    This ^^^

     

    Man...I wish the new generation of f2p would go to a different genre. I want my simple sub games back that don't suck and never heard of a cash shop.

     

    ~I am Many~

  • TankYou88TankYou88 Member Posts: 310
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I'm really starting to see why people hate the f2p "culture" so much. The idea that if you can't do everything for free means it's p2w is just ridiculous but here they are talking like an expert.

    F2P have always been just that, F2P.

    This game is not a F2P game, its a freemium game. A hybrid, as well as a hybrid with a cash shop that offers more than cosmetics, but includes items that give an advantage. So, a F2P sub based P2W game. yay!

    The problem here is players that will bend over to anything a company does and goes so far out of their way they are even willing to change the meaning of words to defend it instead of just calling it what it is.

    I am glad I am not so handicapped that I feel the need to do it. I will continue to play Archeage (Japanese version), enjoy myself and be free enough to call it what it is. Something not as good as it was before it went full retard for western players.

    Exactly I dont see how people think that any game that you spend money on is P2W. The gaming community defines P2W as a game that you pay for an unfair advantage that regular players can not get. 

    Too many people trying to make up whatever they want to bash this game.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    Originally posted by pinktailz
    Only pure idiot can think this game is P2W lol, they put too much effort in it. P2W games uses different approach.

    imo only a true idiot could actually hype that shit AGAIN, after they did a beta in asia, and russia, sold it in BOTH countries and now do the same shit again.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by TankYou88
    Originally posted by Tbau
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I'm really starting to see why people hate the f2p "culture" so much. The idea that if you can't do everything for free means it's p2w is just ridiculous but here they are talking like an expert.

    F2P have always been just that, F2P.

    This game is not a F2P game, its a freemium game. A hybrid, as well as a hybrid with a cash shop that offers more than cosmetics, but includes items that give an advantage. So, a F2P sub based P2W game. yay!

    The problem here is players that will bend over to anything a company does and goes so far out of their way they are even willing to change the meaning of words to defend it instead of just calling it what it is.

    I am glad I am not so handicapped that I feel the need to do it. I will continue to play Archeage (Japanese version), enjoy myself and be free enough to call it what it is. Something not as good as it was before it went full retard for western players.

    Exactly I dont see how people think that any game that you spend money on is P2W. The gaming community defines P2W as a game that you pay for an unfair advantage that regular players can not get. 

    Too many people trying to make up whatever they want to bash this game.

    By your own admission in that last quote, AA falls into the category of P2W though, so that post is really confusing. Also, as I said in an earlier post, there is no concrete definition of P2W and there never has been.

     

    I do not consider a sub fee as paying to win, but if anything beyond cosmetics are offered in a cash shop, the game falls into the P2W category.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • TbauTbau Member Posts: 401
    Originally posted by Larai

    The part that only Patrons can own land is necessary though.

    No one here is refuting this nor does it take away from the game being what it is. P2W.

    If a game decides to go F2P it has two choices. Be F2P or be P2W.

    In other words, if you are going to do something, do it, don't be half-assed about it unless you want the crap label that comes with it.

    Archeage never should have gone F2P, the game was great as it was before 1.0 and the reason for going F2P baffled a lot of Asian players because the changes don't make sense.

    It wasn't popular in Korea, a place that loves F2P games, but they made the F2P changes for the western market, a place where F2P is debatable. Then, to make it F2P, they made changes hated in Asia.......and not exactly fitting the western market either and in a way that near cripples one of the most loved aspects of the game, crafting and land ownership!

    It was almost as if someone had a stupid bat and beat everyone at XLGames with it.

This discussion has been closed.