Alright then I think the SG10 will be as small as I would like to go, just for the heck of it though say I was going to go up larger than that SG10, what case would you suggest I be looking at?
Again guys, I really appreciate the discussion, opinions, and help everyone has given. So much information and this is just about the case I will be using! Afraid of what will come when its time to actually pick parts!
If you're willing to take larger cases, then there are many cases that will handle anything you want to do and will handle it well. Among such cases, you can pick one because you like the looks, or because it's relatively cheap, or whatever.
What makes the Silverstone Sugo series unusual is that they're trying to take high end gaming systems and cram them into small cases without sacrificing airflow and frying things and while still allowing you to use off-the-shelf desktop parts. That seemed to be exactly what you were looking for.
My main gaming PC, the one in the NCASE M1 v1, sits next to my monitor and takes up very little room. The case was designed to be an aluminum alternative to Silverstones SG05 which would also allow for watercooling (the most commonly used is the swiftech h220) so it can in fact be built into a high end gaming machine. Currently you can't really OC top end systems much due to the limitations of the 450 Watt SFF PSU but later on this year Silverstone is releasing a new 600 watt version with the same exact dimensions which means outside of multiple GPU setups (I can't recommend that headache at all) this case will be able to house as beast of a gaming machine as just about anything else on the market in a much smaller package. Just my two cents.
EDIT: If you look at the build logs on the site I linked you will see the kind of hardware people are already packing into the case. Quite a few people are easily running a nvidia GTX 780ti without issue with the 450 watt PSU.
Otherwise I'd totally build a rig into one, it is a slick design.
It is true that availability is an issue but they can often be found on ebay. The latest version, v2, should be shipping from Lian Li (the manufacturer) by the end of the month and if that order is anything like the first they will have additional stock for sale. If this is not an immediate need I'd HIGHLY recommend you consider attempting to get one of these cases. Worst case scenario if you find it's not to your liking I assure you it will sell for at least the price you paid for it if not more.
Otherwise I'd totally build a rig into one, it is a slick design.
It is true that availability is an issue but they can often be found on ebay. The latest version, v2, should be shipping from Lian Li (the manufacturer) by the end of the month and if that order is anything like the first they will have additional stock for sale. If this is not an immediate need I'd HIGHLY recommend you consider attempting to get one of these cases. Worst case scenario if you find it's not to your liking I assure you it will sell for at least the price you paid for it if not more.
Should I just be checking their website towards the end of the month to try and pick two up before they run out?
While you could do that I'd suggest you "Contact" them via email and ask if you can get put on their email list. They send out updates via email. You can also check the original HardForums section as the members there are highly active and generally spread new details as they are received.
Originally posted by miguksaram While you could do that I'd suggest you "Contact" them via email and ask if you can get put on their email list. They send out updates via email. You can also check the original HardForums section as the members there are highly active and generally spread new details as they are received.
Emailed them and signed up to the mailing list so hopefully I can get word before its too late!
Also, does anyone have any input in regards to Corsair cases? I have been searching online and found a few other small cases that look nice, and then I read about an upcoming Graphite 380T and Carbide Air 240. Any speculation on those two cases?
Originally posted by miguksaram While you could do that I'd suggest you "Contact" them via email and ask if you can get put on their email list. They send out updates via email. You can also check the original HardForums section as the members there are highly active and generally spread new details as they are received.
Emailed them and signed up to the mailing list so hopefully I can get word before its too late!
Also, does anyone have any input in regards to Corsair cases? I have been searching online and found a few other small cases that look nice, and then I read about an upcoming Graphite 380T and Carbide Air 240. Any speculation on those two cases?
Corsair makes some nice cases, but they don't make any particularly small cases of the sort that you seem to be looking for. By volume, the Graphite 380T is larger than quite a few mid-tower cases. I couldn't find dimensions on the Carbide Air 240, but it doesn't look especially small to me, either. The Graphite 380T looks somewhat cubical, but Corsair did that in part by making it a very wide case.
Thanks Quizzical, I already got an email back from NCASE and they have given me the opportunity to order two of their cases and say I will have it come August. Before I did that I wanted your opinion on NCASE vs SG10?
One thing to think about is the cooling and the airflow around the computer. I certainly wouldn't put a small case somewhere where it doesn't have plenty of air around it. Better graphicscards tend to generate plenty of heat when you game and that hot air need to go somewhere.
I would not buy a case online at all since I would like to really check it out first (pictures are good of course), the hotter the components get the worse it is.
Fitting the stuff in the case is one thing, avoiding it to overheat is another one.
Still, building a high end computer as small as possible sounds pretty fun to me.
One thing to think about is the cooling and the airflow around the computer. I certainly wouldn't put a small case somewhere where it doesn't have plenty of air around it. Better graphicscards tend to generate plenty of heat when you game and that hot air need to go somewhere.
I would not buy a case online at all since I would like to really check it out first (pictures are good of course), the hotter the components get the worse it is.
Fitting the stuff in the case is one thing, avoiding it to overheat is another one.
Still, building a high end computer as small as possible sounds pretty fun to me.
Thanks for the support, glad you share the same view of just doing things because it sounds cool without requiring a reason like some people seem to think I need! I'm planning to set it right on top of my desk so I think the air flow in that sense should be fine! I don't think these cases are something I am going to find in a store to look at though since the SFF seems to be such a niche thing.
Just in case you didn't bother reading up on the NCASE it's highly recommended that you consider getting a rear exhaust GPU if you don't plan to liquid cool it. Given the overall size, and thus lack of airflow within the case, you need to ensure you do your utmost to keep all hot air outside the case. Which the rear exhaust GPU's will do for you. However, should you decide to go with a liquid cooled build then the vast majority of the setups you can browse will show you what is possible and overall airflow within the case will be mostly irrelevant.
Originally posted by GrubbsGrady Thanks Quizzical, I already got an email back from NCASE and they have given me the opportunity to order two of their cases and say I will have it come August. Before I did that I wanted your opinion on NCASE vs SG10?
Different products entirely. The Silverstone SG10 is larger and will have room to do just about whatever you want. The NCASE is a much closer comparison to the Silverstone SG07; the NCASE is only slightly smaller than it.
I'm not sure how the NCASE plans on getting airflow to the video card. It has plenty of air vents, certainly, but the video card will sit in an area at the bottom with no vents nearby. That will probably be all right with an external exhaust GPU, as it will pull air from every which direction into the card. An internal exhaust GPU (which most are!) could be dangerous, though, as the hair that gets blown into the GPU just bounces off and then gets sent right back at the GPU with no ambient airflow to carry it out of the case.
With the Silverstone SG07, it's pretty obvious how it plans on getting airflow to the GPU: there is a vent right on front of the GPU and pointing basically right at it. A GPU fan would pull air directly from outside of the case. External exhaust is still ideal for this, as it would make the video card basically on its own air circuit: air comes from outside of the case, gets blown across the video card, and sent right out the back of the case. But internal exhaust doesn't look trivially dangerous like it would be with an NCASE.
If you go with the NCASE, you're going to have to do some careful engineering of which fans to put where so that you get good airflow. From the pictures, it's not obvious to me what the airflow plan is. Most cases will basically handle this for you unless you're stupid about it.
Upon further review, it looks like the NCASE is relying heavily on bottom air vents to cool the video card. I didn't see that from the pictures on the web page. There isn't much space there for it, though, so if you set the case on carpet and thereby plug the vents, you might well fry things.
You can, of course, cause problems with other cases by blocking vents, too. If you set the left side of the Silverstone SG07 against a wall to block the side vent, you might well fry a video card. But I'd argue that it's a lot easier to get plenty of clearance on the side of a case than on the bottom.
I personally like the look of the NCASE the most, but it seems like everyone who uses it also goes with a water cooling setup, which I have no experience and in all honesty the whole thing kinda intimidates me. I'm much more comfortable with using fans, and with Quizzical bringing up the airflow + the bottom air vents it does worry me.
The SG10 is a little bigger, but I may end up just going with it even though its slightly bulkier and not as visually appealing. I guess I'll just have to mull it over more, I'm terrible with decisions for things that I lack experience in!
It's definitely possible but if you're an amateur I wouldn't suggest trying to build them. If you know what you're doing then go for it. Check out Digital Storm, last I remember they had some very tiny but powerful PCs.
It's definitely possible but if you're an amateur I wouldn't suggest trying to build them. If you know what you're doing then go for it. Check out Digital Storm, last I remember they had some very tiny but powerful PCs.
Not saying buy it, but just throwing it out there so it might give you ideas on what's possible.
That one looks pretty cool, I like that you can lay it on the side too! Anyone have experience with that Bolt?
Also, it seems like nearly every person I see with the M1 went with liquid cooling. How involved would you guys say that is for a beginner in that area?
It's definitely possible but if you're an amateur I wouldn't suggest trying to build them. If you know what you're doing then go for it. Check out Digital Storm, last I remember they had some very tiny but powerful PCs.
Not saying buy it, but just throwing it out there so it might give you ideas on what's possible.
That one looks pretty cool, I like that you can lay it on the side too! Anyone have experience with that Bolt?
Also, it seems like nearly every person I see with the M1 went with liquid cooling. How involved would you guys say that is for a beginner in that area?
Personally I would go with a rear exhaust GPU with the NCASE. I am sure you could research and figure out a liquid cooling setup, but unless you are an experienced builder it would be a major pain and be costly.
Just depends on how much time and money you want to sink into a SFF PC. The decrease in size to a very small case may not be worth having to liquid cool components. When you can go with the SG10 and not have to worry with it.
It's definitely possible but if you're an amateur I wouldn't suggest trying to build them. If you know what you're doing then go for it. Check out Digital Storm, last I remember they had some very tiny but powerful PCs.
Not saying buy it, but just throwing it out there so it might give you ideas on what's possible.
That one looks pretty cool, I like that you can lay it on the side too! Anyone have experience with that Bolt?
Also, it seems like nearly every person I see with the M1 went with liquid cooling. How involved would you guys say that is for a beginner in that area?
Personally I would go with a rear exhaust GPU with the NCASE. I am sure you could research and figure out a liquid cooling setup, but unless you are an experienced builder it would be a major pain and be costly.
Just depends on how much time and money you want to sink into a SFF PC. The decrease in size to a very small case may not be worth having to liquid cool components. When you can go with the SG10 and not have to worry with it.
Sorry if the answer is obvious, but when you refer to a rear exhaust GPU is that something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130917 ? When I google it all I can seem to notice is that the back of it has grates, though some are larger than others. Just want to get an idea of what I would be looking for if I get the NCASE.
From what you said there, I'm going to go ahead and say I want to avoid liquid cooling. I just don't want to have to deal with it.
It's definitely possible but if you're an amateur I wouldn't suggest trying to build them. If you know what you're doing then go for it. Check out Digital Storm, last I remember they had some very tiny but powerful PCs.
Not saying buy it, but just throwing it out there so it might give you ideas on what's possible.
That one looks pretty cool, I like that you can lay it on the side too! Anyone have experience with that Bolt?
Also, it seems like nearly every person I see with the M1 went with liquid cooling. How involved would you guys say that is for a beginner in that area?
Personally I would go with a rear exhaust GPU with the NCASE. I am sure you could research and figure out a liquid cooling setup, but unless you are an experienced builder it would be a major pain and be costly.
Just depends on how much time and money you want to sink into a SFF PC. The decrease in size to a very small case may not be worth having to liquid cool components. When you can go with the SG10 and not have to worry with it.
Sorry if the answer is obvious, but when you refer to a rear exhaust GPU is that something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130917 ? When I google it all I can seem to notice is that the back of it has grates, though some are larger than others. Just want to get an idea of what I would be looking for if I get the NCASE.
From what you said there, I'm going to go ahead and say I want to avoid liquid cooling. I just don't want to have to deal with it.
Yeah that is an external exhaust GPU, air goes out the back of the card to the outside of the case, rather than something like this
If you like the NCASE the most but are concerned about not setting up a liquid cooled system I can assure you that the use of an external exhaust GPU will negate internal air cooling issues. The reason you see most of the builds as liquid cooled is because that is one of the major reasons the case was invented in the first place. It is basically the smallest cast in terms of liters that supports custom liquid cooling solutions. There are still plenty of builds, like my own, that are totally air cooled and have zero issues under full load.
What I would recommend once you decide to finally build the systems is to list the parts you intend to purchase in the NCASE sub-forum on HardForum. They maintain a fairly up-to-date list of all compatible parts and the members are always willing to offer advice.
Originally posted by miguksaram What I would recommend once you decide to finally build the systems is to list the parts you intend to purchase in the NCASE sub-forum on HardForum. They maintain a fairly up-to-date list of all compatible parts and the members are always willing to offer advice.
I'll be sure to do that, bookmarked and ready for when the time comes. Really excited though!
Comments
Alright then I think the SG10 will be as small as I would like to go, just for the heck of it though say I was going to go up larger than that SG10, what case would you suggest I be looking at?
Again guys, I really appreciate the discussion, opinions, and help everyone has given. So much information and this is just about the case I will be using! Afraid of what will come when its time to actually pick parts!
If you're willing to take larger cases, then there are many cases that will handle anything you want to do and will handle it well. Among such cases, you can pick one because you like the looks, or because it's relatively cheap, or whatever.
What makes the Silverstone Sugo series unusual is that they're trying to take high end gaming systems and cram them into small cases without sacrificing airflow and frying things and while still allowing you to use off-the-shelf desktop parts. That seemed to be exactly what you were looking for.
My main gaming PC, the one in the NCASE M1 v1, sits next to my monitor and takes up very little room. The case was designed to be an aluminum alternative to Silverstones SG05 which would also allow for watercooling (the most commonly used is the swiftech h220) so it can in fact be built into a high end gaming machine. Currently you can't really OC top end systems much due to the limitations of the 450 Watt SFF PSU but later on this year Silverstone is releasing a new 600 watt version with the same exact dimensions which means outside of multiple GPU setups (I can't recommend that headache at all) this case will be able to house as beast of a gaming machine as just about anything else on the market in a much smaller package. Just my two cents.
EDIT: If you look at the build logs on the site I linked you will see the kind of hardware people are already packing into the case. Quite a few people are easily running a nvidia GTX 780ti without issue with the 450 watt PSU.
This gallery shows various comparisons to other popular cases as well as builds: http://imgur.com/a/zOoA2#x6LxeDI
The only bad thing about the NCASE:
http://www.ncases.com/v2/m1.php
Otherwise I'd totally build a rig into one, it is a slick design.
It is true that availability is an issue but they can often be found on ebay. The latest version, v2, should be shipping from Lian Li (the manufacturer) by the end of the month and if that order is anything like the first they will have additional stock for sale. If this is not an immediate need I'd HIGHLY recommend you consider attempting to get one of these cases. Worst case scenario if you find it's not to your liking I assure you it will sell for at least the price you paid for it if not more.
Should I just be checking their website towards the end of the month to try and pick two up before they run out?
Emailed them and signed up to the mailing list so hopefully I can get word before its too late!
Also, does anyone have any input in regards to Corsair cases? I have been searching online and found a few other small cases that look nice, and then I read about an upcoming Graphite 380T and Carbide Air 240. Any speculation on those two cases?
Corsair makes some nice cases, but they don't make any particularly small cases of the sort that you seem to be looking for. By volume, the Graphite 380T is larger than quite a few mid-tower cases. I couldn't find dimensions on the Carbide Air 240, but it doesn't look especially small to me, either. The Graphite 380T looks somewhat cubical, but Corsair did that in part by making it a very wide case.
One thing to think about is the cooling and the airflow around the computer. I certainly wouldn't put a small case somewhere where it doesn't have plenty of air around it. Better graphicscards tend to generate plenty of heat when you game and that hot air need to go somewhere.
I would not buy a case online at all since I would like to really check it out first (pictures are good of course), the hotter the components get the worse it is.
Fitting the stuff in the case is one thing, avoiding it to overheat is another one.
Still, building a high end computer as small as possible sounds pretty fun to me.
Thanks for the support, glad you share the same view of just doing things because it sounds cool without requiring a reason like some people seem to think I need! I'm planning to set it right on top of my desk so I think the air flow in that sense should be fine! I don't think these cases are something I am going to find in a store to look at though since the SFF seems to be such a niche thing.
Different products entirely. The Silverstone SG10 is larger and will have room to do just about whatever you want. The NCASE is a much closer comparison to the Silverstone SG07; the NCASE is only slightly smaller than it.
I'm not sure how the NCASE plans on getting airflow to the video card. It has plenty of air vents, certainly, but the video card will sit in an area at the bottom with no vents nearby. That will probably be all right with an external exhaust GPU, as it will pull air from every which direction into the card. An internal exhaust GPU (which most are!) could be dangerous, though, as the hair that gets blown into the GPU just bounces off and then gets sent right back at the GPU with no ambient airflow to carry it out of the case.
With the Silverstone SG07, it's pretty obvious how it plans on getting airflow to the GPU: there is a vent right on front of the GPU and pointing basically right at it. A GPU fan would pull air directly from outside of the case. External exhaust is still ideal for this, as it would make the video card basically on its own air circuit: air comes from outside of the case, gets blown across the video card, and sent right out the back of the case. But internal exhaust doesn't look trivially dangerous like it would be with an NCASE.
If you go with the NCASE, you're going to have to do some careful engineering of which fans to put where so that you get good airflow. From the pictures, it's not obvious to me what the airflow plan is. Most cases will basically handle this for you unless you're stupid about it.
Upon further review, it looks like the NCASE is relying heavily on bottom air vents to cool the video card. I didn't see that from the pictures on the web page. There isn't much space there for it, though, so if you set the case on carpet and thereby plug the vents, you might well fry things.
You can, of course, cause problems with other cases by blocking vents, too. If you set the left side of the Silverstone SG07 against a wall to block the side vent, you might well fry a video card. But I'd argue that it's a lot easier to get plenty of clearance on the side of a case than on the bottom.
I personally like the look of the NCASE the most, but it seems like everyone who uses it also goes with a water cooling setup, which I have no experience and in all honesty the whole thing kinda intimidates me. I'm much more comfortable with using fans, and with Quizzical bringing up the airflow + the bottom air vents it does worry me.
The SG10 is a little bigger, but I may end up just going with it even though its slightly bulkier and not as visually appealing. I guess I'll just have to mull it over more, I'm terrible with decisions for things that I lack experience in!
Thanks guys
It's definitely possible but if you're an amateur I wouldn't suggest trying to build them. If you know what you're doing then go for it. Check out Digital Storm, last I remember they had some very tiny but powerful PCs.
Check this one: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/bolt-ii.asp and a video showing it off:
Not saying buy it, but just throwing it out there so it might give you ideas on what's possible.
That one looks pretty cool, I like that you can lay it on the side too! Anyone have experience with that Bolt?
Also, it seems like nearly every person I see with the M1 went with liquid cooling. How involved would you guys say that is for a beginner in that area?
Personally I would go with a rear exhaust GPU with the NCASE. I am sure you could research and figure out a liquid cooling setup, but unless you are an experienced builder it would be a major pain and be costly.
Just depends on how much time and money you want to sink into a SFF PC. The decrease in size to a very small case may not be worth having to liquid cool components. When you can go with the SG10 and not have to worry with it.
Sorry if the answer is obvious, but when you refer to a rear exhaust GPU is that something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130917 ? When I google it all I can seem to notice is that the back of it has grates, though some are larger than others. Just want to get an idea of what I would be looking for if I get the NCASE.
From what you said there, I'm going to go ahead and say I want to avoid liquid cooling. I just don't want to have to deal with it.
Yeah that is an external exhaust GPU, air goes out the back of the card to the outside of the case, rather than something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127748
Which does not .
NCASE is my final decision here, in a few minutes I will have my order in!
Thank you all very very much for helping me with this!
I'll be sure to do that, bookmarked and ready for when the time comes. Really excited though!