The Trinity has been around since paper and pencil and it works...
We should not stop there though. There should be a way to develop a class or skill system that allows players to have unique play styles while still giving something to a group.
But there should penalties for bad things happening...even in MUDs I had to run naked to get my corpse..it was dangerous at times...it has gotten progressively worse as time goes by with new games, there is no such issues..eh I died big deal...no consequences are being paid.
Instances can be awesome but if a game has mostly instances...should it not be called co-op rather then an mmo? I think an mmo should deliver a variety of stuff...GW2 / TSW / EQ2 and many others are doing good things but I think we need more..Archeage has them as well with a good crafting system but not as in-depth as say swg crafting.
Dynamic questing, dynamic events, open world with instances and raids, Grinding options...solo options..group options...wow no wonder these games keep getting larger and larger.
Anyway I miss it, the games I had to work at...I have always played a cleric/healer in every game...most I have gotten bored of quickly. But I still keep looking. Newer games are solo only...hell I still have a max cleric on eq and 220 doc on ao..
Remembers - running from Kelethin to Karnors Castle because you forgot to bind in Firiona Vie and while screwing around in Karnors you accidentally pulled the basement with an AE because you were drunk as hell tryin to be a wizard in plate?
I do not have a memorable death in rift or tsw or gw2 or in many others...sort of sad.
You know you are old when the dev's on the games you play are almost young enough to be your grand-kids.
Instances can be awesome but if a game has mostly instances...should it not be called co-op rather then an mmo?
Good luck trying to get everyone to call WoW a co-op rather than a MMO. Let me know when you are successful and i will change my usage too.
lol well to be honest WoW is open world with instances, but take Warframe for instance, it is just a hub with instances..and it seems to me that for a while the gaming industry was headed that way...which was sad.
Open World with instances can be nice, but things like WoW should probably be called cookie-cutter since everyone end game looks exactly alike and uses nearly the same skill rotation etc. It was depressing, so was the 50-100 runs on an instant for drops.
Reason I cant invest any time in tsw, awesome game play but the farming is monotonous. EQ1 camping was painful at times but we had a lot of time to socialize while doing it lol.
Anyone know of a game like EQ1 with newer graphics? Cant seem to get into Archeage, I am playing TSW, Fallen Earth and Rfit but only casually.
You know you are old when the dev's on the games you play are almost young enough to be your grand-kids.
If a game is going to be based around group play - the trinity makes perfect sense and I never understood the hype to remove it from group based games.
Say if you even took a game like Skyrim and made it multiplayer. A game with no classes just gear and skills. Everyone would be able to build their characters how they want and that is how it should be.
Though in the end, even with the freedom to create your own character. You would have people creating characters around that trinity concept. You will get players that want to build themselves like a defender role, a support role, and a damage roll. There are endless possibilities to branch off from that trinity to make unique and incredible classes and it is being completely ignored in most games!
Things I cannot stand is when armor, weapons, and items are bound to certain classes. Or you cannot pick up a flower because you are not a 'forager'. I really just want developers of 'RPGs' to put the effing RP back in the damn G.
FFS.
Because you don't understand what they are asking to have removed. I don't believe there is anyone in this thread advocating the removal of healing, dealing damage or defending the group. Is there?
I think the problem is that the removal results in DPS zerging. That is largely because it's combined with solo play, self sufficient classes and lack of real roles needed.
Do you feel that PVE combat in GW1, AC, UO, Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online is just "DPS zerging"?
You keep using EO as an example of a non-trininty based system but it isn't, stop using it...please.
If a game is going to be based around group play - the trinity makes perfect sense and I never understood the hype to remove it from group based games.
Say if you even took a game like Skyrim and made it multiplayer. A game with no classes just gear and skills. Everyone would be able to build their characters how they want and that is how it should be.
Though in the end, even with the freedom to create your own character. You would have people creating characters around that trinity concept. You will get players that want to build themselves like a defender role, a support role, and a damage roll. There are endless possibilities to branch off from that trinity to make unique and incredible classes and it is being completely ignored in most games!
Things I cannot stand is when armor, weapons, and items are bound to certain classes. Or you cannot pick up a flower because you are not a 'forager'. I really just want developers of 'RPGs' to put the effing RP back in the damn G.
FFS.
Because you don't understand what they are asking to have removed. I don't believe there is anyone in this thread advocating the removal of healing, dealing damage or defending the group. Is there?
I think the problem is that the removal results in DPS zerging. That is largely because it's combined with solo play, self sufficient classes and lack of real roles needed.
Do you feel that PVE combat in GW1, AC, UO, Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online is just "DPS zerging"?
You keep using EO as an example of a non-trininty based system but it isn't, stop using it...please.
Which is the taunt command in EVE Online?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Funny I keep seeing the anti-trinity crowd saying they like freedom in their specs.....really? Help me out here, because I have yet to play one MMO where you are not pigeonholed into a certain build for whatever you are trying to do. You have a perception of freedom, but if you want to succeed you have to do what works.
Remembers - running from Kelethin to Karnors Castle because you forgot to bind in Firiona Vie and while screwing around in Karnors you accidentally pulled the basement with an AE because you were drunk as hell tryin to be a wizard in plate?
I do not have a memorable death in rift or tsw or gw2 or in many others...sort of sad.
This is what it is all about. What the genre needs to capture this magic again I do not know, I just know it doesn't have it.
If a game is going to be based around group play - the trinity makes perfect sense and I never understood the hype to remove it from group based games.
Say if you even took a game like Skyrim and made it multiplayer. A game with no classes just gear and skills. Everyone would be able to build their characters how they want and that is how it should be.
Though in the end, even with the freedom to create your own character. You would have people creating characters around that trinity concept. You will get players that want to build themselves like a defender role, a support role, and a damage roll. There are endless possibilities to branch off from that trinity to make unique and incredible classes and it is being completely ignored in most games!
Things I cannot stand is when armor, weapons, and items are bound to certain classes. Or you cannot pick up a flower because you are not a 'forager'. I really just want developers of 'RPGs' to put the effing RP back in the damn G.
FFS.
Because you don't understand what they are asking to have removed. I don't believe there is anyone in this thread advocating the removal of healing, dealing damage or defending the group. Is there?
I think the problem is that the removal results in DPS zerging. That is largely because it's combined with solo play, self sufficient classes and lack of real roles needed.
Do you feel that PVE combat in GW1, AC, UO, Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online is just "DPS zerging"?
You keep using EO as an example of a non-trininty based system but it isn't, stop using it...please.
Which is the taunt command in EVE Online?
Tank enters combat first and draws stage aggro. No further commands needed.
Remembers - running from Kelethin to Karnors Castle because you forgot to bind in Firiona Vie and while screwing around in Karnors you accidentally pulled the basement with an AE because you were drunk as hell tryin to be a wizard in plate?
I do not have a memorable death in rift or tsw or gw2 or in many others...sort of sad.
This is what it is all about. What the genre needs to capture this magic again I do not know, I just know it doesn't have it.
If a game is going to be based around group play - the trinity makes perfect sense and I never understood the hype to remove it from group based games.
Say if you even took a game like Skyrim and made it multiplayer. A game with no classes just gear and skills. Everyone would be able to build their characters how they want and that is how it should be.
Though in the end, even with the freedom to create your own character. You would have people creating characters around that trinity concept. You will get players that want to build themselves like a defender role, a support role, and a damage roll. There are endless possibilities to branch off from that trinity to make unique and incredible classes and it is being completely ignored in most games!
Things I cannot stand is when armor, weapons, and items are bound to certain classes. Or you cannot pick up a flower because you are not a 'forager'. I really just want developers of 'RPGs' to put the effing RP back in the damn G.
FFS.
Because you don't understand what they are asking to have removed. I don't believe there is anyone in this thread advocating the removal of healing, dealing damage or defending the group. Is there?
I think the problem is that the removal results in DPS zerging. That is largely because it's combined with solo play, self sufficient classes and lack of real roles needed.
Do you feel that PVE combat in GW1, AC, UO, Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online is just "DPS zerging"?
You keep using EO as an example of a non-trininty based system but it isn't, stop using it...please.
Which is the taunt command in EVE Online?
Tank enters combat first and draws stage aggro. No further commands needed.
Sleepers also seem to respond quite angrily at approaching them.
Instances can be awesome but if a game has mostly instances...should it not be called co-op rather then an mmo?
Good luck trying to get everyone to call WoW a co-op rather than a MMO. Let me know when you are successful and i will change my usage too.
lol well to be honest WoW is open world with instances, but take Warframe for instance, it is just a hub with instances..and it seems to me that for a while the gaming industry was headed that way...which was sad.
sad is relative. Most WOW players are playing in instances anyway. What is so sad when they are having fun?
Comments
The Trinity has been around since paper and pencil and it works...
We should not stop there though. There should be a way to develop a class or skill system that allows players to have unique play styles while still giving something to a group.
But there should penalties for bad things happening...even in MUDs I had to run naked to get my corpse..it was dangerous at times...it has gotten progressively worse as time goes by with new games, there is no such issues..eh I died big deal...no consequences are being paid.
Instances can be awesome but if a game has mostly instances...should it not be called co-op rather then an mmo? I think an mmo should deliver a variety of stuff...GW2 / TSW / EQ2 and many others are doing good things but I think we need more..Archeage has them as well with a good crafting system but not as in-depth as say swg crafting.
Dynamic questing, dynamic events, open world with instances and raids, Grinding options...solo options..group options...wow no wonder these games keep getting larger and larger.
Anyway I miss it, the games I had to work at...I have always played a cleric/healer in every game...most I have gotten bored of quickly. But I still keep looking. Newer games are solo only...hell I still have a max cleric on eq and 220 doc on ao..
Remembers - running from Kelethin to Karnors Castle because you forgot to bind in Firiona Vie and while screwing around in Karnors you accidentally pulled the basement with an AE because you were drunk as hell tryin to be a wizard in plate?
I do not have a memorable death in rift or tsw or gw2 or in many others...sort of sad.
You know you are old when the dev's on the games you play are almost young enough to be your grand-kids.
Classic Trinity gameplay is like beating on a concrete block with graffitti on it, while someone else is shooting you with a rifle.
It's a poor abstraction. As a meta game technique, it had it's uses, but it also has serious issues.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Good luck trying to get everyone to call WoW a co-op rather than a MMO. Let me know when you are successful and i will change my usage too.
lol well to be honest WoW is open world with instances, but take Warframe for instance, it is just a hub with instances..and it seems to me that for a while the gaming industry was headed that way...which was sad.
Open World with instances can be nice, but things like WoW should probably be called cookie-cutter since everyone end game looks exactly alike and uses nearly the same skill rotation etc. It was depressing, so was the 50-100 runs on an instant for drops.
Reason I cant invest any time in tsw, awesome game play but the farming is monotonous. EQ1 camping was painful at times but we had a lot of time to socialize while doing it lol.
Anyone know of a game like EQ1 with newer graphics? Cant seem to get into Archeage, I am playing TSW, Fallen Earth and Rfit but only casually.
You know you are old when the dev's on the games you play are almost young enough to be your grand-kids.
You keep using EO as an example of a non-trininty based system but it isn't, stop using it...please.
Which is the taunt command in EVE Online?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This is what it is all about. What the genre needs to capture this magic again I do not know, I just know it doesn't have it.
Tank enters combat first and draws stage aggro. No further commands needed.
There are no epic PVE moments in modern MMOs
Sleepers also seem to respond quite angrily at approaching them.
The point remains, trinity != taunt.