EQN migration system sounds really intresting, long gone are the static mob spawn, mobs move around and if you kill them to much they migrate to other places.
Old Everquest ala themepark are dead, get over it, we are entering a new era of MMO gaming, flow with it or stay back and play your arcane stale themepark buildup It's your choice.
I embrase changes.
I feel it's a risk to do a to randomized world where you can't really learn it, because everything is spawned by random. I think that somekind of balance is the best way to go. So people feel home when they play the game.
It really all depends on the implementation imo.
If they do it right it can add a sense of exploration even to areas one is already familiar with. They could still have a sense of "i've been here before" and simply add that new sense of "and now theres a goblin camp here!!!"
It could be fun if done right.. And really add some depth to the world. Most MMORPGs are too static imo and in no danger of having too much going on.
Yes, I agree. We can only hope they do it right. However I will be "mad" on them if they do equal poor design as they did with EQ2 (fishes which can walk on ground, you used bells to zone, you needed to shout for help otherwise people can't heal you, etc...). I want to have a world to live in as in EQ1.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I do wish they had kept the trinity over the soft trinity. I do hope EQN is not a pure twitch game. If EQN was any other game, I would not be following it closely. Not happy with every bit of direction but I will give it a shot. I do really like the voxels and hope they put them to good use with some type of PvP area where you can break down castles and keeps. We just dont know enough to fully judge yet.
<Grins wryly>
Maybe they have. The trinity doesn't have to be a static set of rules, does it? It could be that we are invited to try a different type of trinity. all we have to judge right now is what we have currently experienced, such as in WoW or GW 2, to name two very different styles.
In truth, we do not know yet. Watch and listen, let us see what is shown at the next SoE Live about this upcoming mmo.
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
EQN migration system sounds really intresting, long gone are the static mob spawn, mobs move around and if you kill them to much they migrate to other places.
Old Everquest ala themepark are dead, get over it, we are entering a new era of MMO gaming, flow with it or stay back and play your arcane stale themepark buildup It's your choice.
I embrase changes.
I feel it's a risk to do a to randomized world where you can't really learn it. I think that somekind of balance is the best way to go. So people feel home when they play the game.
You will learn it. People will learn mob patterns over time in game just like they learn animal migratory patterns in real life. Mobs will have pre set behaviors that they will act on, the inclusion of variables and how they interact with these pre-set behaviors is where we will see differentiation. It's a cool system and I really want to see it in action.
As for SOE counting on initial sales… what initial sales? EQ:N is free to play. SOE is counting on their game bringing in enough people to support itself and flourish over the lifespan of the game. Remember that they are building a game that is passing the content torch to the players for the most part. Yes, they will develop new stuff and put in story lines / quests / etc, but at the end of the day they want the players to be making their own stories and content and they are giving them the tools to do so. The game won't be 100% sandbox but it will probably be the closest thing to a true sandbox that a AAA developer has put out since SWG.
As I said before, take a look at the whole picture and piece everything together before making a snap judgement about this game and how it will turn out. There are currently 4 games that are using the same engine (physics, graphics, lighting, etc) and those games are:
Planetside 2
EQ:L
EQ:N
H1Z1
Planetside is using the earliest version of the engine, EQ:L / EQ:N and H1Z1 are all using versions that have been modified fairly extensively. Take a look at what's possible in PS2, H1Z1 and EQ:L and, with a bit of common sense, try to forecast what will be possible with Next, which will use the most developed and furthest along version of the engine.
a bunch of people that aren't good at critical thinking
and
a number of people that seem to have a grasp on what might actually be possible with what SOE is putting together.
They are using the same engine between 4 different games… look at how easy it is to build / create in landmark, look at how weather affects the environment in H1Z1… i mean, WATER ACTS LIKE WATER and FIRE ACTUALLY SPREADS! Holy Crap! I am VERY excited to see what they have for us at SOE Live this year, looking at the schedule there will be hours and hours of panels and presentations regarding Next; this is great news.
Is there potential for the game to be terrible? yes, there certainly is. SOE is raising the bar with physics and player access to the world though, and that's probably the most important advancement the MMO genre has ever seen. Even if SOE fails with EQ:N, other companies will pick up their ideas and run with them.
What SOE is doing is not bad for anybody.
nice post, sir!
I too am excited, but a bit reserved as well. I am not nearly as excited as I was last year. This is because I am playing Landmark. However, this also pushes me to imagine a fully fleshed out mmo that uses some or all of the creative tools seen in Landmark. in a word; AWESOME.
However, take heed, we know just very little and all we can do is project our hopes. I do believe we've been down this rabbit hole bofore with some other highly anticipated mmo's. I go back to Age of Conan as an example. I have to hold back my emotions and excitement about I "think" it will be and sit patiently and listen for the truth about the game.
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
EQN migration system sounds really intresting, long gone are the static mob spawn, mobs move around and if you kill them to much they migrate to other places.
Old Everquest ala themepark are dead, get over it, we are entering a new era of MMO gaming, flow with it or stay back and play your arcane stale themepark buildup It's your choice.
I embrase changes.
Greetings Torgrim!
I do definitely agree with you. There new ideas lurking about. We get just morsels to chew on and like humans often do we'll spin those epic yarns about what we see for the future of gaming. I am guilty as charged!
I had a rather interesting discussion one evening a couple of weeks ago about what SoE might be doing. One of the friends I was talking to had not tried EQ or EQ 2 and I told them about EQ 2's modding or dungeon creation. Granted it is with stock npc's or mobs from the game but nevertheless i have played some rather creative and challenging player-made dungeons. Thus, I can forsee, maybe, that the guys and gals down in San Diego might just be thinking about this and how the tools used in landmark will be used to create dungeons. Fascinating to dream up the possibilties. Imagine what an end game would be in EQ Next? actually probably no end at all really come to think of it!
Imagine what storybricks can do for an mmo like EQ Next? Now, I am no expert, but it is how one interacts with the world/environment/npcs/mobs in the game. Now, with this in mind, a player might be able to write player-made quests. Interesting and stimulating. Obviously, I would think these player-made quests like player-made items would need to be given the "ok" by the devs, but imagine how brings a "return on your mmo investment"?
Alyn
SOE has been using EQ2 as a test bed for EQ:N for the last few years. The dungeon creator and player studio are probably the two most recognizable and I can almost 100% guarantee you will see iterations of both in EQ:N (player studio already confirmed). I would also expect to see Kronos available in EQ:N.
EQN migration system sounds really intresting, long gone are the static mob spawn, mobs move around and if you kill them to much they migrate to other places.
Old Everquest ala themepark are dead, get over it, we are entering a new era of MMO gaming, flow with it or stay back and play your arcane stale themepark buildup It's your choice.
I embrase changes.
I feel it's a risk to do a to randomized world where you can't really learn it, because everything is spawned by random. I think that somekind of balance is the best way to go. So people feel home when they play the game.
They could still have a sense of "i've been here before" and simply add that new sense of "and now theres a goblin camp here!!!"
This is how EQN are gonna be, who knows how good or bad they implent it, thats remain to be seen.
SOE is hoping to bring in a wide audience to EQN for max profit. It will be an ultra casual game, most likely not even a true MMORPG like EQ1 and 2.
I expect EQN to be a massive disappointment to EQ fans.
Take out the word massive and I agree. Those who have unrealistic expectations will be massively disappointed, though. Anyone who is hoping for EQ pre-2004 (when it died IMO) with graphics brought up to date, mechanics sped up, and cool new shit thrown in is going to be extremely sad when they get a chance to play the game. That won't happen.
A more reasonable hope is that we get an MMO that has some EQ elements thrown in, enough to make it feel a little like that game we used to love. Difficulty. Death penalties. Group-centric for most classes. Exploration that matters.
It's important to note that most of what the game will be is far from set in stone. The success of other MMO's between now and then will influence the direction EQN takes some things. I know you and I barely care (and not in a positive way) about Wildstar, DM, but it it keeps a bunch more subs than expected we could see the market realize that everything doesn't have to be Novice-mode 1988 Nintendo difficulty.
There's some hope if they set things up with ruleset servers. Keeps the PVPers, PVE'ers, and roleplay guys reasonably happy and out of each other's way. Haven't read anything about this being the case or not, so I apologize if I missed it.
As a quick summary of my thoughts.. I'm just not hoping for the best MMO ever. I've been beaten down past that point by what's been released in the past decade. I'm just hoping for something between WoW-style and the EverQuest I used to love. And I'm sure, despite trying to be reasonable, I'll be a little disappointed.
I think Slaccker, you have more or less pinpointed what I'm feeling about EQ: N as of this writing. Too many unanswered questions and way too many projections of what we are to expect.
Patience is the cup of tea for me at this point. It will be very different, but how different only time and transparency will show us all.
Nice grounded thought Slaccker!
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
a bunch of people that aren't good at critical thinking
and
a number of people that seem to have a grasp on what might actually be possible with what SOE is putting together.
They are using the same engine between 4 different games… look at how easy it is to build / create in landmark, look at how weather affects the environment in H1Z1… i mean, WATER ACTS LIKE WATER and FIRE ACTUALLY SPREADS! Holy Crap! I am VERY excited to see what they have for us at SOE Live this year, looking at the schedule there will be hours and hours of panels and presentations regarding Next; this is great news.
Is there potential for the game to be terrible? yes, there certainly is. SOE is raising the bar with physics and player access to the world though, and that's probably the most important advancement the MMO genre has ever seen. Even if SOE fails with EQ:N, other companies will pick up their ideas and run with them.
What SOE is doing is not bad for anybody.
nice post, sir!
I too am excited, but a bit reserved as well. I am not nearly as excited as I was last year. This is because I am playing Landmark. However, this also pushes me to imagine a fully fleshed out mmo that uses some or all of the creative tools seen in Landmark. in a word; AWESOME.
However, take heed, we know just very little and all we can do is project our hopes. I do believe we've been down this rabbit hole bofore with some other highly anticipated mmo's. I go back to Age of Conan as an example. I have to hold back my emotions and excitement about I "think" it will be and sit patiently and listen for the truth about the game.
Alyn
I think there's enough information out right now to make a fairly accurate educated guess as to what the game will look like, at least in some capacity, upon release (bits and pieces over the last year assembled together). Keep in mind, everything I have said is possible in one of the games listed in my previous post, and since each of these games has been spawned from SOE's new flagship title "Everquest Next", it is fairly safe to assume that aspects of all of these games will be found there as well.
If I am totally wrong I will be a bit surprised but that's the nature of the beast I suppose.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 Did you really think a company that puts out a zombie mmorpg would do anything unique?
In all fairness, define "unique". Don't we label everything as a WoW clone now? We don't really give cred to any game for its originality anyway, so what's the motivation? Those that do try to be innovative, people simply bitch and whine about.
Talking about Zombie MMOs, I really couldn't name you on off the top of my head, sorry. DayZ? Not released. Everything else is kinda...... not MMORPG is it? Or not worth even playing? Granted the whole Zombie love affair will probably run its course before any of these games actually reach the market, but it's not really like we're flooded with Zombie MMOs (though we've seen our fair share in games in general).
Its not about it being bad for gamers. Its that long time Everquest fans have been looking forward to and asking for a new EQ game for a long time. From the info given, this area of the forum and SoE EQN forum has died. SoE has said clearly they are making this game not to take the fans from EQ1 and EQ2 but to pull in a new group of players. From a business side of things, this sounds awesome. To the long time fan, it can feel like we are cheated. Funny thing is, EQ3 is what people have been asking for, for a long time.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I do wish they had kept the trinity over the soft trinity. I do hope EQN is not a pure twitch game. If EQN was any other game, I would not be following it closely. Not happy with every bit of direction but I will give it a shot. I do really like the voxels and hope they put them to good use with some type of PvP area where you can break down castles and keeps. We just dont know enough to fully judge yet.
Maybe they have. The trinity doesn't have to be a static set of rules, does it? It could be that we are invited to try a different type of trinity. all we have to judge right now is what we have currently experienced, such as in WoW or GW 2, to name two very different styles.
In truth, we do not know yet. Watch and listen, let us see what is shown at the next SoE Live about this upcoming mmo.
Alyn
If a tank cant tank, its not the trinity. No taunt = no tank. There will be defensive skills but no tanking. So no, there is no trinity here in the hard sense. There is a soft trinity like GW2.
SOE is hoping to bring in a wide audience to EQN for max profit. It will be an ultra casual game, most likely not even a true MMORPG like EQ1 and 2.
This: SOE is so focused on appealing to the widest possible audience that they have completely lost touch with the core base of customers that made EQ and EQ2 successful.
While I am sure they will launch to a very large initial audience, I wonder how much of that player base will remain after the first three months, and what percentage of that player base will be fans of the games earlier iterations.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
SOE is hoping to bring in a wide audience to EQN for max profit. It will be an ultra casual game, most likely not even a true MMORPG like EQ1 and 2.
This: SOE is so focused on appealing to the widest possible audience that they have completely lost touch with the core base of customers that made EQ and EQ2 successful.
While I am sure they will launch to a very large initial audience, I wonder how much of that player base will remain after the first three months, and what percentage of that player base will be fans of the games earlier iterations.
I feel the same way.
But I guess they think like this... It's not meant that EQ players shall play EQN. They focus on new players. That's why all EQ games will be completely different, so they can have 3 EQ MMO up and running and those who enjoyed EQ1 15 years ago can still play that stone age game. It's not meant that they shall pick the best parts in EQ so those players leave EQ.
a bunch of people that aren't good at critical thinking
and
a number of people that seem to have a grasp on what might actually be possible with what SOE is putting together.
They are using the same engine between 4 different games… look at how easy it is to build / create in landmark, look at how weather affects the environment in H1Z1… i mean, WATER ACTS LIKE WATER and FIRE ACTUALLY SPREADS! Holy Crap! I am VERY excited to see what they have for us at SOE Live this year, looking at the schedule there will be hours and hours of panels and presentations regarding Next; this is great news.
Is there potential for the game to be terrible? yes, there certainly is. SOE is raising the bar with physics and player access to the world though, and that's probably the most important advancement the MMO genre has ever seen. Even if SOE fails with EQ:N, other companies will pick up their ideas and run with them.
What SOE is doing is not bad for anybody.
Its not about it being bad for gamers. Its that long time Everquest fans have been looking forward to and asking for a new EQ game for a long time. From the info given, this area of the forum and SoE EQN forum has died. SoE has said clearly they are making this game not to take the fans from EQ1 and EQ2 but to pull in a new group of players. From a business side of things, this sounds awesome. To the long time fan, it can feel like we are cheated. Funny thing is, EQ3 is what people have been asking for, for a long time.
Hardcore EQ fans need to realize there is more out there. I'm totally with Evil on this. Sucks to be a broken hearted EQ fan, but some of us are not crying on the inside. I loved EQ, but left just like most others. I'm ready for SOE to bring me back. Not sure how you are cheated, feel damn lucky EQ/EQ2 are still chugging along, really doubt they are bringing in much profit these days. Would be a terrible idea to make EQ3, "Now we have 3 unpopular EQ games!" No sense at all. Look at WoW bleeding players, ESO already looking like a giant flop, we'll see where Wildstar ends up, the grinding/themepark (I think EQ was a themepark I'm a bad person) doesn't work anymore.
Originally posted by Elmberry I fear that they will only count on high initial sale of the game as most companies seams to do today. My guess is that combat will be quite boring (as GW2 and TESO). I will this time around however give them some cash, for the free to play game.... ... so I can check it out.
Will be F2P, no initial sales. They are making it worth spending money on without being forced to sub. GW2 PVE was terrible, but I found the PVP side to be fairly fun, guess it just how you approach anything though.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I do wish they had kept the trinity over the soft trinity. I do hope EQN is not a pure twitch game. If EQN was any other game, I would not be following it closely. Not happy with every bit of direction but I will give it a shot. I do really like the voxels and hope they put them to good use with some type of PvP area where you can break down castles and keeps. We just dont know enough to fully judge yet.
Maybe they have. The trinity doesn't have to be a static set of rules, does it? It could be that we are invited to try a different type of trinity. all we have to judge right now is what we have currently experienced, such as in WoW or GW 2, to name two very different styles.
In truth, we do not know yet. Watch and listen, let us see what is shown at the next SoE Live about this upcoming mmo.
Alyn
If a tank cant tank, its not the trinity. No taunt = no tank. There will be defensive skills but no tanking. So no, there is no trinity here in the hard sense. There is a soft trinity like GW2.
Taunt = horrible mechanic.
Much rather have players actually have to "tank" and not press a magical button to do the work for them.
Be it a meat shield standing there soaking up hits, nimble guy smacking mobs around while dodging and keeping it distracted, caster laying down non-stop CC, or any other variation that has a player playing and actually doing the role of a "tank" or defender while keeping the rest of the team safe from harm.
GW2's PVE and classes are a joke. Wouldn't even call it a limp trinity.
I've played a "Tank" in PVP MMORPGs and MOBA/FPS games before and didn't rely on Taunt and it worked great. Assuming EQN will be similar.
There is no Gamer 101 definition of what the Trinity or Tank or anything is.
Personally find the holy trinity and being stuck within a role to be extremely limiting and boring. Very unrealistic and goes against D&D and fantasy in general. Trinity had it's time/place, hopefully EQN's system is a step beyond and actually makes players rely on themselves and others to win, not simply spamming taunt/heal in a mindless dps race.
First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO. But the little I do, I don't like it at all. I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below. But everything about this game turns me off.
- Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it !
- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.
- Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements.
- What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style.
- The marketing. Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us.
I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.
You DO know that SOE started out by making EQ3, then rebooted the project at least 2 times-- mainly because they didn't want this to be just "another MMO" that spikes and tanks.
Right now, the genre is severely lacking when it comes to new and interesting mechanics. I understand that you want something closer to classic EQ, but please consider that your desires are probably fueled by nostalgia more than anything else. Repackaging the same old kind of game in the modern days of MMOs won't work. It simply WON'T work-- all you have to do is look to the wasteland of failed MMOs to see it. Sorry but I'm with SOE completely when it comes to this. I think Dave Georgeson said it best in the EQN keynote last year:
"Enough is enough, enough of the same game already it is time to get some new ideas into the genre and if someone was to do it, it should be EverQuest... again"
First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO. But the little I do, I don't like it at all. I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below. But everything about this game turns me off.
- Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it !
- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.
- Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements.
- What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style.
- The marketing. Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us.
I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.
You DO know that SOE started out by making EQ3, then rebooted the project at least 2 times-- mainly because they didn't want this to be just "another MMO" that spikes and tanks.
Right now, the genre is severely lacking when it comes to new and interesting mechanics. I understand that you want something closer to classic EQ, but please consider that your desires are probably fueled by nostalgia more than anything else. Repackaging the same old kind of game in the modern days of MMOs won't work. It simply WON'T work-- all you have to do is look to the wasteland of failed MMOs to see it. Sorry but I'm with SOE completely when it comes to this. I think Dave Georgeson said it best in the EQN keynote last year:
"Enough is enough, enough of the same game already it is time to get some new ideas into the genre and if someone was to do it, it should be EverQuest... again"
This is what bothers me. They started out making EQ3 in the veign of World of Warcraft. I'm really tired of people saying all the MMO's of the past 10 years are EQ based, because that is very very loosely true. The only thing that the original EQ has in common with modern themepark MMO is that it was primarily Player vs Enemy. EQ had no instancing, no quest based leveling, no "you are the one saviour of the entire world" BS storyline. EQ was very much a PVE sandbox. You started a character and then did what you want. Did you want to go solo skeletons? go kill skeletons. Did you wanna get a group together and try to dungeon crawl your way to Emperor Crushbone? Do that. Once you gained some levels you could get together and kill some dragons, or whatever.
Modern MMO's are glorified single player games and Dave Georgeson was right that they need to move away from that model. Where he was wrong (and most of the people who werent there in the beginning days of MMOs) is assuming that EVERYTHING from EQ was bad.
In my opinion the main ingredient missing from MMO's is the Multiplayer part of it. And please nobody pull the BS card that just because you're on a server with other people its Multiplayer. Thats just being pedantic.
The lack of defined classes and class interdependency is what has ruined any aspect of a community and any sense of pride or individuality in your character.
Humans gain satisfaction from having a purpose in life. Not from being a jack of all trades. Look at any walk of life and the people who are happiest are the ones who have found their course in life and are pursuing that.
That doesnt change in MMO's.
Also, something obtained easily has no worth.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO. But the little I do, I don't like it at all. I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below. But everything about this game turns me off.
- Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it !
- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.
- Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements.
- What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style.
- The marketing. Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us.
I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.
You DO know that SOE started out by making EQ3, then rebooted the project at least 2 times-- mainly because they didn't want this to be just "another MMO" that spikes and tanks.
Right now, the genre is severely lacking when it comes to new and interesting mechanics. I understand that you want something closer to classic EQ, but please consider that your desires are probably fueled by nostalgia more than anything else. Repackaging the same old kind of game in the modern days of MMOs won't work. It simply WON'T work-- all you have to do is look to the wasteland of failed MMOs to see it. Sorry but I'm with SOE completely when it comes to this. I think Dave Georgeson said it best in the EQN keynote last year:
"Enough is enough, enough of the same game already it is time to get some new ideas into the genre and if someone was to do it, it should be EverQuest... again"
This is what bothers me. They started out making EQ3 in the veign of World of Warcraft. I'm really tired of people saying all the MMO's of the past 10 years are EQ based, because that is very very loosely true. The only thing that the original EQ has in common with modern themepark MMO is that it was primarily Player vs Enemy. EQ had no instancing, no quest based leveling, no "you are the one saviour of the entire world" BS storyline. EQ was very much a PVE sandbox. You started a character and then did what you want. Did you want to go solo skeletons? go kill skeletons. Did you wanna get a group together and try to dungeon crawl your way to Emperor Crushbone? Do that. Once you gained some levels you could get together and kill some dragons, or whatever.
Modern MMO's are glorified single player games and Dave Georgeson was right that they need to move away from that model. Where he was wrong (and most of the people who werent there in the beginning days of MMOs) is assuming that EVERYTHING from EQ was bad.
In my opinion the main ingredient missing from MMO's is the Multiplayer part of it. And please nobody pull the BS card that just because you're on a server with other people its Multiplayer. Thats just being pedantic.
The lack of defined classes and class interdependency is what has ruined any aspect of a community and any sense of pride or individuality in your character.
Humans gain satisfaction from having a purpose in life. Not from being a jack of all trades. Look at any walk of life and the people who are happiest are the ones who have found their course in life and are pursuing that.
That doesnt change in MMO's.
Also, something obtained easily has no worth.
EQ1 was 100% a themepark, it just didn't have quest hubs and instances. There was a set progression path in the game that took you from the level 1 zones up to nagafen (talking first iteration EQ here). That continued on with every expansion that I played up through Shadows of Luclin, when I eventually quit. I agree that the emergence of the "jack of all trades" classes hurt the theme park sub genre, but it's totally feasible in a sandbox (think of UO). We will have to see what they do gameplay wise with Next… not sure they will go the route that WoW and EQ2/GW2 went with "one character all roles" but I'm not sure that they won't either. That's the biggest question mark left in my mind for this game.
Not to be nit picky but it's "Player vs Environment", not "Enemy" ;p
The most old school mmo out there with good graphix and good game play that ive played is ff14. It is hard and there is a challenge there so if you like challenge and good game play you should try it.
EQ1 was 100% a themepark, it just didn't have quest hubs and instances. There was a set progression path in the game that took you from the level 1 zones up to nagafen (talking first iteration EQ here). That continued on with every expansion that I played up through Shadows of Luclin, when I eventually quit. I agree that the emergence of the "jack of all trades" classes hurt the theme park sub genre, but it's totally feasible in a sandbox (think of UO). We will have to see what they do gameplay wise with Next… not sure they will go the route that WoW and EQ2/GW2 went with "one character all roles" but I'm not sure that they won't either. That's the biggest question mark left in my mind for this game.
Not to be nit picky but it's "Player vs Environment", not "Enemy" ;p
I disagree about 100% themepark. It was a mix.
I could choose dozens of zones and the way to level.
Of course, there were guidlines where to level and what to do, but that is necessary for a new player. After you get to know the game, you could do loads of zones. Loads. With different types of monsters or loot. Not like in other games, where at certain level you had to always be in the same zone. Well, maybe there is a pick between 2-3 zones, but not more.
Comments
Yes, I agree. We can only hope they do it right. However I will be "mad" on them if they do equal poor design as they did with EQ2 (fishes which can walk on ground, you used bells to zone, you needed to shout for help otherwise people can't heal you, etc...). I want to have a world to live in as in EQ1.
<Grins wryly>
Maybe they have. The trinity doesn't have to be a static set of rules, does it? It could be that we are invited to try a different type of trinity. all we have to judge right now is what we have currently experienced, such as in WoW or GW 2, to name two very different styles.
In truth, we do not know yet. Watch and listen, let us see what is shown at the next SoE Live about this upcoming mmo.
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
You will learn it. People will learn mob patterns over time in game just like they learn animal migratory patterns in real life. Mobs will have pre set behaviors that they will act on, the inclusion of variables and how they interact with these pre-set behaviors is where we will see differentiation. It's a cool system and I really want to see it in action.
As for SOE counting on initial sales… what initial sales? EQ:N is free to play. SOE is counting on their game bringing in enough people to support itself and flourish over the lifespan of the game. Remember that they are building a game that is passing the content torch to the players for the most part. Yes, they will develop new stuff and put in story lines / quests / etc, but at the end of the day they want the players to be making their own stories and content and they are giving them the tools to do so. The game won't be 100% sandbox but it will probably be the closest thing to a true sandbox that a AAA developer has put out since SWG.
As I said before, take a look at the whole picture and piece everything together before making a snap judgement about this game and how it will turn out. There are currently 4 games that are using the same engine (physics, graphics, lighting, etc) and those games are:
Planetside 2
EQ:L
EQ:N
H1Z1
Planetside is using the earliest version of the engine, EQ:L / EQ:N and H1Z1 are all using versions that have been modified fairly extensively. Take a look at what's possible in PS2, H1Z1 and EQ:L and, with a bit of common sense, try to forecast what will be possible with Next, which will use the most developed and furthest along version of the engine.
nice post, sir!
I too am excited, but a bit reserved as well. I am not nearly as excited as I was last year. This is because I am playing Landmark. However, this also pushes me to imagine a fully fleshed out mmo that uses some or all of the creative tools seen in Landmark. in a word; AWESOME.
However, take heed, we know just very little and all we can do is project our hopes. I do believe we've been down this rabbit hole bofore with some other highly anticipated mmo's. I go back to Age of Conan as an example. I have to hold back my emotions and excitement about I "think" it will be and sit patiently and listen for the truth about the game.
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
SOE has been using EQ2 as a test bed for EQ:N for the last few years. The dungeon creator and player studio are probably the two most recognizable and I can almost 100% guarantee you will see iterations of both in EQ:N (player studio already confirmed). I would also expect to see Kronos available in EQ:N.
This is how EQN are gonna be, who knows how good or bad they implent it, thats remain to be seen.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I think Slaccker, you have more or less pinpointed what I'm feeling about EQ: N as of this writing. Too many unanswered questions and way too many projections of what we are to expect.
Patience is the cup of tea for me at this point. It will be very different, but how different only time and transparency will show us all.
Nice grounded thought Slaccker!
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
LOL, points to Smed...I blame him!
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
I think there's enough information out right now to make a fairly accurate educated guess as to what the game will look like, at least in some capacity, upon release (bits and pieces over the last year assembled together). Keep in mind, everything I have said is possible in one of the games listed in my previous post, and since each of these games has been spawned from SOE's new flagship title "Everquest Next", it is fairly safe to assume that aspects of all of these games will be found there as well.
If I am totally wrong I will be a bit surprised but that's the nature of the beast I suppose.
In all fairness, define "unique". Don't we label everything as a WoW clone now? We don't really give cred to any game for its originality anyway, so what's the motivation? Those that do try to be innovative, people simply bitch and whine about.
Talking about Zombie MMOs, I really couldn't name you on off the top of my head, sorry. DayZ? Not released. Everything else is kinda...... not MMORPG is it? Or not worth even playing? Granted the whole Zombie love affair will probably run its course before any of these games actually reach the market, but it's not really like we're flooded with Zombie MMOs (though we've seen our fair share in games in general).
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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i am looking forward to EQN but i agree w you
EQ2 fan sites
If a tank cant tank, its not the trinity. No taunt = no tank. There will be defensive skills but no tanking. So no, there is no trinity here in the hard sense. There is a soft trinity like GW2.
There will be tanks and healers though.
This: SOE is so focused on appealing to the widest possible audience that they have completely lost touch with the core base of customers that made EQ and EQ2 successful.
While I am sure they will launch to a very large initial audience, I wonder how much of that player base will remain after the first three months, and what percentage of that player base will be fans of the games earlier iterations.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
I feel the same way.
But I guess they think like this... It's not meant that EQ players shall play EQN. They focus on new players. That's why all EQ games will be completely different, so they can have 3 EQ MMO up and running and those who enjoyed EQ1 15 years ago can still play that stone age game. It's not meant that they shall pick the best parts in EQ so those players leave EQ.
Hardcore EQ fans need to realize there is more out there. I'm totally with Evil on this. Sucks to be a broken hearted EQ fan, but some of us are not crying on the inside. I loved EQ, but left just like most others. I'm ready for SOE to bring me back. Not sure how you are cheated, feel damn lucky EQ/EQ2 are still chugging along, really doubt they are bringing in much profit these days. Would be a terrible idea to make EQ3, "Now we have 3 unpopular EQ games!" No sense at all. Look at WoW bleeding players, ESO already looking like a giant flop, we'll see where Wildstar ends up, the grinding/themepark (I think EQ was a themepark I'm a bad person) doesn't work anymore.
Will be F2P, no initial sales. They are making it worth spending money on without being forced to sub. GW2 PVE was terrible, but I found the PVP side to be fairly fun, guess it just how you approach anything though.
Taunt = horrible mechanic.
Much rather have players actually have to "tank" and not press a magical button to do the work for them.
Be it a meat shield standing there soaking up hits, nimble guy smacking mobs around while dodging and keeping it distracted, caster laying down non-stop CC, or any other variation that has a player playing and actually doing the role of a "tank" or defender while keeping the rest of the team safe from harm.
GW2's PVE and classes are a joke. Wouldn't even call it a limp trinity.
I've played a "Tank" in PVP MMORPGs and MOBA/FPS games before and didn't rely on Taunt and it worked great. Assuming EQN will be similar.
There is no Gamer 101 definition of what the Trinity or Tank or anything is.
Personally find the holy trinity and being stuck within a role to be extremely limiting and boring. Very unrealistic and goes against D&D and fantasy in general. Trinity had it's time/place, hopefully EQN's system is a step beyond and actually makes players rely on themselves and others to win, not simply spamming taunt/heal in a mindless dps race.
I liked tanking in UO
/pet kill
or
/cast EnergyVortex
stand back and watch the carnage.
You DO know that SOE started out by making EQ3, then rebooted the project at least 2 times-- mainly because they didn't want this to be just "another MMO" that spikes and tanks.
Right now, the genre is severely lacking when it comes to new and interesting mechanics. I understand that you want something closer to classic EQ, but please consider that your desires are probably fueled by nostalgia more than anything else. Repackaging the same old kind of game in the modern days of MMOs won't work. It simply WON'T work-- all you have to do is look to the wasteland of failed MMOs to see it. Sorry but I'm with SOE completely when it comes to this. I think Dave Georgeson said it best in the EQN keynote last year:
"Enough is enough, enough of the same game already it is time to get some new ideas into the genre and if someone was to do it, it should be EverQuest... again"
This is what bothers me. They started out making EQ3 in the veign of World of Warcraft. I'm really tired of people saying all the MMO's of the past 10 years are EQ based, because that is very very loosely true. The only thing that the original EQ has in common with modern themepark MMO is that it was primarily Player vs Enemy. EQ had no instancing, no quest based leveling, no "you are the one saviour of the entire world" BS storyline. EQ was very much a PVE sandbox. You started a character and then did what you want. Did you want to go solo skeletons? go kill skeletons. Did you wanna get a group together and try to dungeon crawl your way to Emperor Crushbone? Do that. Once you gained some levels you could get together and kill some dragons, or whatever.
Modern MMO's are glorified single player games and Dave Georgeson was right that they need to move away from that model. Where he was wrong (and most of the people who werent there in the beginning days of MMOs) is assuming that EVERYTHING from EQ was bad.
In my opinion the main ingredient missing from MMO's is the Multiplayer part of it. And please nobody pull the BS card that just because you're on a server with other people its Multiplayer. Thats just being pedantic.
The lack of defined classes and class interdependency is what has ruined any aspect of a community and any sense of pride or individuality in your character.
Humans gain satisfaction from having a purpose in life. Not from being a jack of all trades. Look at any walk of life and the people who are happiest are the ones who have found their course in life and are pursuing that.
That doesnt change in MMO's.
Also, something obtained easily has no worth.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Exactly right on.
EQ1 was 100% a themepark, it just didn't have quest hubs and instances. There was a set progression path in the game that took you from the level 1 zones up to nagafen (talking first iteration EQ here). That continued on with every expansion that I played up through Shadows of Luclin, when I eventually quit. I agree that the emergence of the "jack of all trades" classes hurt the theme park sub genre, but it's totally feasible in a sandbox (think of UO). We will have to see what they do gameplay wise with Next… not sure they will go the route that WoW and EQ2/GW2 went with "one character all roles" but I'm not sure that they won't either. That's the biggest question mark left in my mind for this game.
Not to be nit picky but it's "Player vs Environment", not "Enemy" ;p
I disagree about 100% themepark. It was a mix.
I could choose dozens of zones and the way to level.
Of course, there were guidlines where to level and what to do, but that is necessary for a new player. After you get to know the game, you could do loads of zones. Loads. With different types of monsters or loot. Not like in other games, where at certain level you had to always be in the same zone. Well, maybe there is a pick between 2-3 zones, but not more.
Fking questhubs is horrible these days..