if you don't like pvp don't play games with pvp in them, simple as that. don't like being griefed? stay locked inside a white room the rest of your life.
Now that i think of it..... I dont think i have ever seen one of the "leets" post in your manner. Please do grace us with your excellence.
Yes you can kick ass as a noob, however 1-6 years + experiance is very hard to overcome not to mention the skill point advantage, as well as further depth like fleet boosts. There are players who rise to this challenge very quickly but they are few and far between and mainly live in corps such as Hydra, PL and R&K as well as a few others who are smaller.
Originally posted by Datawarlock You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]
Actually, the fact that I stuck to EVE for 10 months IS what makes my complaint significant. I am the typical player they want to keep. I will pump money into the game as long as I have fun, and I've tried to do my best to work around the nastiness for the sake of playing a great game. Whether its in the first month or the first year, CCP's game simply can't keep new players on board anymore.
If you read more carefully, my point is that CCP is desperate for new players. All the initiatives point that way. There is NO company that hands out free gaming time or free put in extra man power to contact player individually "just out of the kindness of their heart." It is always to address an issue. And considering how much time and MONEY is spent into trying to keep new players, I would say that with every new player encountering bad blood within their first month (and I mean EVERY new player, I'm not exaggerating), it's time for them to sit up and listen.
CCP hands out bans. They do not completely cut themselves off from the game. I am just bringing up what I consider to be a very serious obstacle that they need to give more attention to. I sincerely believe bans are not the answer to this problem. They need to look at the game structurally to ensure that new players are getting the most out of their initial gaming experience, and not left at the mercy of bullies who have been allowed to push players around at will in an area where new players both spawn and develop.
This is serious problem -- one that I (and I agree with the poster here) CCP is not willing to address. And so the game is basically going to hell in a hand basket.
Originally posted by Datawarlock You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]
Actually, the fact that I stuck to EVE for 10 months IS what makes my complaint significant. I am the typical player they want to keep. I will pump money into the game as long as I have fun, and I've tried to do my best to work around the nastiness for the sake of playing a great game. Whether its in the first month or the first year, CCP's game simply can't keep new players on board anymore.
If you read more carefully, my point is that CCP is desperate for new players. All the initiatives point that way. There is NO company that hands out free gaming time or free put in extra man power to contact player individually "just out of the kindness of their heart." It is always to address an issue. And considering how much time and MONEY is spent into trying to keep new players, I would say that with every new player encountering bad blood within their first month (and I mean EVERY new player, I'm not exaggerating), it's time for them to sit up and listen.
CCP hands out bans. They do not completely cut themselves off from the game. I am just bringing up what I consider to be a very serious obstacle that they need to give more attention to. I sincerely believe bans are not the answer to this problem. They need to look at the game structurally to ensure that new players are getting the most out of their initial gaming experience, and not left at the mercy of bullies who have been allowed to push players around at will in an area where new players both spawn and develop.
This is serious problem -- one that I (and I agree with the poster here) CCP is not willing to address. And so the game is basically going to hell in a hand basket.
There's a reason people like you wish it will 'change for the better' and we can respect that. But there's also a reason it's NOT the better and won't change.
You can give the noobs a place to play in free of any harm... we'll just call it like it is.... the carebear sector. They're all happy and dandy.... except they can't experience the real core of the game there. Doesn't matter how long they play in that sector, as soon as they leave to explore and see the world they're missing, reality will hit them and send their pod back to kansas and they'll flock here crying that they're imprisoned in the noob zone and can't get out and explore the way they want to because the rest of the ACTUAL game is too hard and they can't compete because the sector with the nice teddy bears didn't tell them that other players see them as food. And no, a pve only server here would be retarded and not in any way, shape, or form do any part of the game justice. If people want something like that, they can download an xwing vs. tie fighter torrent somewhere.
OR the only other option is to pull an NGE.... and that's when CCP will shut down.
So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.
If people simply did a little research on games, I think a lot of these threads could be avoided. When I first entered into the MMO world, I heard of EvE. I did my research and discovered that the game most likely wouldn't be to my liking. So, I moved on to a game I thought I would enjoy more.
And to those berating the entire community by the actions of a very few, shame on you. All MMO's have the "griefers" in some form or another (kill-stealers, node stealers) , but a game's community should not be shunned by the actions of the few.
if you don't like pvp don't play games with pvp in them, simple as that. don't like being griefed? stay locked inside a white room the rest of your life.
And there you go. That's why I believe EVE is dying. That's the message you get now when you start out in EVE. If you don't like the way you are treated, get the hell out of the game. The rest of the poster's comments about "staying locked inside a white room" pretty much sums up the attitude you are slapped in the face with your first month or so in EVE.
I love PvP. But the issue I am raising in EVE is that what is happening is NOT PvP by any stretch of the imagination. When 10-year old veterans who have sifted through all the ins and out of a VERY complex game and know all the manipulations available to them to win, and then go and freely push around inexperienced players who not only don't have the skills trained (in EVE its all about time to learn skills, not levels), but also faced against a steep learning curve which results in a massive number of mistakes in their first year just trying to learn the game, then IT'S NOT PvP. It's just a bunch of veterans who are bored of the game and have found a way to manipulate the game mechanics (i.e. exploiting a loophole) to take control of it. It's like the highly-geared OP jerk who goes to new player spawn points in a PvP server and kills all the newbies and defends himself by saying "Well the game allows it, so its fair game." How long do you think a new player will stick around if that's the experience they get over and over while they are learning the game? In EVE, if you are less than a year old, you are considered a new player. That's how hard the game is to learn.
If CCP insists this as fair game play, then they need to swallow the consequences that come with that decision and stop wasting money in new player initiatives. If this is the kind of game they want then they ought to pour their resources into trying to keep the current player base interested. However, every gaming company knows that in order to sustain your game, the rate of new player intake needs to balance out player attrition. Focusing on only the loyal players just doesn't work.
Let me reiterate what I said in the OP: CCP is looking for commitment from NEW PLAYERS. Their initiatives shout that loud and clear. This is why I insist that they making a serious mistake by protecting the wrong players in the game. It's like they are so scared of losing their VETERANS, they looking for a way around the problem instead of facing it straight on.
The "Open Sandbox" idea doesn't have to be compromised. But it does need to be reviewed. It's a unique approach I agree. But that's also what makes it so difficult to manage. CCP are pioneers of this type of gaming and so they need to look at their product against the present trends and adjust, and do it more regularly than the copycat mmorpgs of other companies. If they want to preserve their unique style of gameplay, they they need to stop being ignorant, and stop stubbornly sticking to this gaming style like it's timeless in its current form. They don't need to change into a typical mmorpg -- gawd I hope they don't. But they do need to address the problems with a gaming system where there are no case studies to learn from with their gaming competitors.
I'm sorry my posts are so wordy. But I do believe, even after 10 months, that EVE is a game worth saving. In fact, EVE in null sec is a pretty amazing. The problem they need to deal with is how to preserve new players in high sec long enough so they gain the skill and experience needed to function in null. A very, VERY small percentage of new players go straight to null... those who were lucky enough to join a corp already in an established alliance with SOV in null. And even then, their first few months will be spent in high sec for training purposes. But considering how much scrutiny corps put into taking new members, I'm betting that 90% of new players do not enter null until after a year or two. I've been in null. It's exciting. I got lucky with the corp who happened to find me wandering around, and then merged with a veteran corp who joined a null alliance. In this regard, I consider my journey to null quite rare. But even with my access to null sec, being a 10-month old player means my abilities to sustain my ship losses in null are just not strong enough to stay in null the whole time. I HAVE to go to high sec frequently to gather more ISK just to be able to move forward in the game -- and so have to subject myself time and time again to the bullies. I just got so tired of the abuse, that the null experience wasn't enough to keep me around.
This problem won't stand still. The more new players who join EVE and then leave from a bad community experience, the worse the reputation EVE will get. These players are NOT coming back. CCP doesn't get a second chance. There are just way too many options out there for that.
You can give the noobs a place to play in free of any harm... we'll just call it like it is.... the carebear sector. They're all happy and dandy.... except they can't experience the real core of the game there.
I agree. And if you read more carefully, you will see that that's not what I'm looking for. Having a "special place for newbies safe from the veterans" is a TERRIBLE solution. Veterans help new players. I agree But there is something going on in EVE right now breaking the game so badly, that the new players CCP wants just aren't sticking around.
Take PvP away from the new player, and you might as well kill the game before it starts. But where EVE is at now, the game is equally in trouble of dying. CCP needs to get creative and stop pulling out their bandaid box. It's needs a structural review.
Originally posted by Datawarlock You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]
So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.
Man you made my day. Are you implying that EVE involves player skill? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
SO what DID YOU DO to dodge a missle the last time? Turned on an afterburner? :DDDDDD Man such skill wow i just can't comprehend the level of your skill its OUT OF THIS WORLD
No but really, there is no skill in EVE, just spreadsheets. EOL
And if we're going to call upper management a player skill then yeah maybe EVE requires *some* "skill"
Originally posted by Datawarlock You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]
So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.
Man you made my day. Are you implying that EVE involves player skill? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
SO what DID YOU DO to dodge a missle the last time? Turned on an afterburner? :DDDDDD Man such skill wow i just can't comprehend the level of your skill its OUT OF THIS WORLD
No but really, there is no skill in EVE, just spreadsheets. EOL
And if we're going to call upper management a player skill then yeah maybe EVE requires *some* "skill"
We get it, you were ganked in game and ever since you've hated on it, we can live with that, i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it
10 months... Son you are barley long in the game to be called green... heck you are proto-green.
But yes... you are by all accounts right, eve is not a game that the solo players will EVER get any where in unless he is very very lucky. Nope... You need someone to show you the ropes, help you program your jump points and early in the game... Babysit you. The bigger that someone is the better. That will not stop the pirates but it will make the blows feel a bit less. As for CCP changing Eve... Nope... Not going to happen. It would be the end of the game and by extension CCP.
Eve is a game that does not give any quarter, does not make any excuses and is a gold mine for social studies. It is not a game for beginners.
I totally appreciate your comments. (well, maybe except for being called "son" but I can get over that pretty quick... most girls do.)
I think the part of EVE that is really enjoyable is the fact that you CAN'T run solo. In fact, a great corp got me early. They missioned me through a good NPC corp for standing purposes (literally let me leech off the rewards) and coached me on ship fits that saved me from a lot of failed experimenting to get me ahead in the game. This includes building good defense on my mining ships (not that it mattered -- no mining ship can stand up to the ganking going on now). The corp even moved to null and took me with them! I have seen a lot of EVE in my first 10 months than I think most new players get to see.
Community, I believe, is what makes a game keep their players. But the fact that you need to depend on others to advance in the game makes the need for a positive community experience that much more important if CCP wants new players to stick with the game.
Ten months may give you veteran status in other online multi-player games, but in EVE you're still considered a baby player. So when I say new players -- that's captures a huge span of time. For example, after 10 months, I'm just now picking up skills to fly T2 ships. While you may be surprised by this, it was because I focused my skill training on defense and missile power. I can't fly the T2 ships, but my T1s can withstand and deal a decent amount of DPS, and as long as I can gather enough ISK, i can always fly faction ships. In fact, I was coached by a veteran friend of mine to focus my skill training to go deep in particular specializations instead of spreading myself thin, and my gawd I'm glad I did. In my opinion, I got pretty much the best coaching you could probably get for a new EVE player. Maybe that's why I lasted 10 months instead of 10 weeks. And I love my corp. The guys are great, apart from the "woohoo! dude, we got a chick in corp!" excitement. haha.
But the experience with these gankers in high sec is just still just too unpalatable for me to continue. It's not just that I'm being ganked. It's watching them get away with such horrible behavior against other inexperienced players who didn't have the advantage I had of finding a good corp early. It sets the environment that I have to play in. The more I learn about EVE, the more I can see there's just no catching up my skills fast enough for me to survive what they are doing, or even combat to help other inexperienced players. These bullies are getting stronger and faster at their ganks. And they dual client so that the two gankers (both controled by one player) ensure the kill is successful. It's just too much to ask for a new player to combat against such experience, no matter what kind of good coaching you get. And how about a mining fleet? Believe me, these guys can handle that challenge. High sec has been hi-jacked, and with it, the future of the game.
Yes I've been told there are better ways to make ISK other than mining. -- exploration, PI, missioning, incursions... all areas that I was right at the beginning of learning. But consider this: PLEX prices are at an all-time high, the new popular gamestyle in EVE is to double client for efficiency which means you fund two or more accounts per month, and it takes skill training to be proficient in these areas of exploring the sites that give good isk, or being able to do PI on enough planets with enough power to make it a profitable ISK business -- which means your other skills that you wanted to focus on (like getting into that T3 ship asap) goes on the backburner. It's just too much to ask me to stay and tolerate such terrible community interaction when you consider how long it takes to get up and running. Day after day, these bullies are in your face. You are hit directly, or have to watch them hit others around you.
There's just no winning while these guys are making the EVE gaming life toxic and distasteful. I'm tired of it. That's why I'm done with EVE. If CCP doesn't care, why should I?
Yeah i know.. son/daughter does not roll as smoothly.. =P
Beyond that i pretty much agree fully. My story was pretty much the same. I was a trader/hauler for a good (as in nice and helpful) corp, i enjoyed the relaxed pace of moving stuff from one place to the other and the semi-danger of hauling ore for our miners once that became a big thing. But as you said... It became more and more difficult due to "pirates" so we had to have a bigger and bigger armed escort. Then came the arms race... In the end on a whim a corp decided to wipe us out. Most people left and i was sitting there... a trucker without anything to truck. =P I think i was playing for about three years in total before i drifted away. These days i do not bother to come back. Nobody need a hauler these days unless you are hauling in a deathstar..
1 -- The problem CCP refuses to deal with is that games need to evolve, and stubbornly hanging on to old ways of managing the game is killing it. The "open sandbox" view may have once worked when the playing field was more leveled and the diversity of players was greater. But just as they "had hoped", the game has evolved by player participation. Unfortunately it has gone awry in a horrible way. The bullies who have fun griefing players are staying, and the new gamers (to EVE, or even just to the world of gaming) give EVE a matter of a few months (even if that) before they leave in disgust at the cruelty and anti-social behavior displayed in front of their faces day after day.
2 - What is ironic is that it is clear CCP is panicking over a shrinking player base. Look at the promotions. In addition to the extension of the 14-day trial to 21 days if you sign up through a buddy (thinking that a friend will help them through the game), there are rewards for those who bring back reactivated accounts, and a 6-month promotion for players who create a second account (the idea of double clienting was only recently approved by CCP-- no surprised there why they did that). They have initiatives having a GM personally contact every new player within the first day or two -- a real live responding GM. Talk about dedicating resources to trying to keep new players interested -- personal contact is expensive. I know. I worked for a big company at the highest level. There are workshops they offer to new players. There are links galore to places where new players can get information on how to get used to the game.
3 - The newest griefing trend is this ridiculous Alliance called CODE who is trying to take over high sec by ganking defenseless miners and forcing them into some sick kind of ideology where they are forced to not only comply to an individual's style of gameplay, but they are actually "commanded" not to complain when they get their ship blown up, looted, and then podded. If you want to take a look at some of the most twisted degenerate kinds of people who are enjoying EVE right now, go take a look at their website. minerbumping.com. (I'm sure they will love the press here). Calling players cancer and degenerates in public is not cool -- nor is it appropriate in any setting, including gaming. And since high sec is the home to EVERY new player in EVE, every single one (and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE) will come into contact with this alliance within the first month or two. This alliance is literally holding "fun" as hostage and trying to force players to only play the kind of EVE game that gives them fun. The message: "play EVE how we want or get the hell out of the game." They claim they are making the game better, but in real fact, they are destroying the game -- and CCP is letting them do it.
4 - If you want to make a program to see how fast you can get rid of new players in the game, this is EXACTLY HOW TO DO IT. The young players of EVE have no chance to even enjoy the game because they are bumped up again these bullies (no pun intended) and told "you are not welcome here unless you do things our way." Really CCP? You want to relinquish that kind of control? Because you are basically letting the game dig its own grave. When unsupervised, this is where the human mind degrades into. Or do you not study the history of the world AT ALL?
Ok I will answer the above posts as a 9 year eve vet and multi account holder
1 - The sandbox that eve has given us players to develop has developed as it has, if you dont want or like the idea of a sandbox then dont cry when someone comes and kicks sand in your face, there are 1000s of themeparks for you to play with, The whole point of sandbox is the game develops as the game develops, be it good or bad. This is pure nature of sandbox. Having CCP change things to allow more carebearing or other aspects of the game removes the big thing that makes eve, eve.
2 - What a complete load of crap - Eve has over the last 10 years grown YEAR ON YEAR and still growing, the simple fact is buddy invites have been around for as long as i have been playing, hell look in this exact forum and see the age of hte buddy invite post too see how 'panicking they are' , multiboxing HAS ALWAYS been a valid part of eve, hell people complain that eve allows multibox, in fact in about 2009 i was running 11 accounts all from the same email so no this isn't new. The GMs talking to new players isn't a new thing either, 3 years ago i did some voluntary work in eve and part of that job was convoing new players from the new player chat to offer a personal advice etc about the game, EvE & CCP hsould be applauded as very few other games, and certainly NO AAA game does this for new players.
3 - CODE are just a fad, eve has had many alliances try and with varying degrees of short term success to control the masses BOB / Goons / YULAI Federation just to name 3 of the bigger alliances, Fact is i log in daily for 4 hours or more on 3 accounts and i have NEVER come across code, so please if you dont like wht they do move to an area where they are not, feck there are about 3000 systems in eve, if you dont like playground bullies then move to another playground, or even better stand up to them, EVE IS A PVP GAME
4 - Crap, again see point 1 year on year eve grows, their player base is diverse, just sit in the n00b player channel and see how many have never played, this game might not be growing like some people think, but fact is show me A SINGLE MMO that has grown year on year for 10+ years, not even the almighty WoW can claim that one.
I would like to point out from all this, I am a carebear i do nothing but produce goods, It has been over 6months sicne i fired a shot in anger in either pve or pvp I run mult corps focussed on profit and yes i play in a VERY smal group
Fair enough. And I do appreciate the response, especially from someone who has been in EVE for a while. You certainly have more years in EVE than I. However, keep in mind that the opinion of a veteran and a "newer" player can be very different, simply because the world of EVE to a new player is, I believe, completely foreign to any veteran. I can tell by the way I get responses to my questions in corp. Many of them often don't realize just how "grass roots" they have to go into to answer my questions. I can't imagine any veteran being able to understand what a new player goes through today.
There are two points you bring up that i would like to speak to, however:
1. I agree, the buddy system was probably around for a while. But since joining 10 months ago, double clienting was "approved" by CCP shortly before I joined. I saw the announcement. People may have gotten away with a lot before, but the fact the CCP recognized it recently as an acceptable (dare I say, legal) approach to the game is what is being focused on. Also the recent "start a second account and we'll give you two-for-one gaming time for 6 months" is brand new. The "bring back your veteran buddy" is not brand new -- but newish. CCP IS looking for other ways to increase their player base by more accounts, it's clear. Companies don't start initiatives like this unless there's a problem, be it gaming companies or otherwise.
2. CODE has been around for 2 years. Their newest post celebrates that. Two years ago, EVE was in the Top 5 games listed in mmorpg.com. It had frequent articles show up in their weekly, and from what i read in the forums, it was considered one of the favorite games here. Within the last two years, I saw other games that cycled in and out of the top ranking games -- at least the ones at the top of the list that fit on my screen. EVE not only dropped out of the Top 5 only a year later, but now I can't even find them when I sort by rank/hype. It's disappeared. So telling me the game is okay certainly doesn't have the data here to prove it. For a games that's been around for 10+ years, that's clearly NOT player attrition. Something has gone wrong in the game. I accept that fad alliances come and go. But this is one is actually destructive to the game. When you mess with a new player base (again, that's as long as year-old players), then you are messing with a core part of the game's foundation and what it relies on to continue.
It doesn't matter to me that EVE's been around for 10 years or it has a leg up on another game in the past. The point is, what is happening at present is very unhealthy and the game playership is suffering for it. That's why I brought this up. I want to play EVE... really i do. It really is an amazing game. And I can tolerate a lot of garbage from players. A bully here, an immature mouth there -- i ignore it and continue. What is happening in EVE right now goes far beyond that. And it's an obstacle to new players who would otherwise discover the game as it should be played -- respectful PvP on several levels, and incredible industry-building opportunities. This new CODE movement are killing the game for new players before they even have a chance to see it for what it is.
History may have saved EVE in the past. But I believe, the problem they have right now is the kind that kills games. The saying goes, you are like the company you keep. If these are now the kind of players that EVE wants to support, then that'st he game they are trying to save -- and I don't think it's possible. Carebears don't save a game -- so whether they are there are not, I really really don't care. It's the toxic community that KILLS it.
These are just my opinions, I realize. That's what forums are here for. But I do believe it's close to the truth.
(P.S. omg i should stop reading these forum responses -- and stop posting. I need sleep! )
Originally posted by Datawarlock You've played for 10 months, so compared to those that have played for the past 10 YEARS your gripes are insignificant, been heard a million times, and mean nothing new to anyone now. [mod edit]
So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.
Man you made my day. Are you implying that EVE involves player skill? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
SO what DID YOU DO to dodge a missle the last time? Turned on an afterburner? :DDDDDD Man such skill wow i just can't comprehend the level of your skill its OUT OF THIS WORLD
No but really, there is no skill in EVE, just spreadsheets. EOL
And if we're going to call upper management a player skill then yeah maybe EVE requires *some* "skill"
We get it, you were ganked in game and ever since you've hated on it, we can live with that, i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it
but your tears are refreshing
Oh come on, man you know its true. There is no skill in EvE. All battles are decided before they even start. That's why there are only ganks and griefing not real skill based pvp combat.
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In EvE you either know you are going to win a battle or you run away. There is no skill involved other than knowing what you can beat with your current ship or setup.
That is why you never have real pvp in this game just ganking. It's a game full of cowards.
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PS: I have played EvE for 8 years, lived in null and wormholes, have 3 characters with over 100mil SP each. Yeah i was hardcore playing with 3 monitors and "solo" ganking. The game plays itself not much skill involved if you know how to pick your fights or where to bubble gates to catch the most "flies".
another one of these "I had a bad experience with EVE so it's the same for everyone". truth is it takes about two calories to avoid what happend to you and yes this game is still not for everyone.
This game has always been tough on new players, but also tough on existing players, either you like it or you dont. The amount of metagaming and ganing is way beyond any other game, but its part of the game and as far as i know there arent many games where those tards can express themselves and get a litt boost of selfconfidence in their misserable lifes, so its natural that you will find groups of them in Eve. But in the total picture the gankers are not much of problems, sure some new players will quit due to the greetings from these peeps, but most of those that quit would have quit eventually anyway.
But there should be enough carebear mmo's out there for anyone to find something to their liking, just not try to ruin one of the only few games that stays tru to their ideals.
We get it, you were ganked in game and ever since you've hated on it, we can live with that, i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it
but your tears are refreshing
"i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it "
Its the reason i left too... i just wanted to listen to my Dune audio books while doing some space missions in their "High Security" space in EVE... i got Suicide Ganked by groups of players over and over, even when i made sure they did not get any profit out of killing me.
I contacted CCP letting them know that they are doing it just to harass me as they were losing money by losing their own ships to destroy mine but CCP said its fine.
So i left and never came back...
EDIT: I`ll also add that CCP said that it was PVP... well maybe their definition of PVP is a 15 vs 1 fight where that one player can`t even attack first or his ship will get destroyed by the "police" and that with 15 people they can take out any mission ship before the "police" arrives to take them out. That is not PvP, that`s just pure griefing and CCP`s answer is "well buy a new GTC to sell in the game for a new ship!" essentially forcing you to fund your griefers.
Unless you absolutely enjoy griefing, there are better PvP games out there where they have systems in place to make sure its somewhat consensual and balanced.
another one of these "I had a bad experience with EVE so it's the same for everyone". truth is it takes about two calories to avoid what happend to you and yes this game is still not for everyone.
This game has always been tough on new players, but also tough on existing players, either you like it or you dont. The amount of metagaming and ganing is way beyond any other game, but its part of the game and as far as i know there arent many games where those tards can express themselves and get a litt boost of selfconfidence in their misserable lifes, so its natural that you will find groups of them in Eve. But in the total picture the gankers are not much of problems, sure some new players will quit due to the greetings from these peeps, but most of those that quit would have quit eventually anyway.
But there should be enough carebear mmo's out there for anyone to find something to their liking, just not try to ruin one of the only few games that stays tru to their ideals.
The thing is that there is nothing hardcore or skill based about eve. Even the skills are based on how long you paid CCP to get those skills.
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Even CCP calculates their amazing "metagame" based on how much currency was destroyed not how skilled a certain player or group of players are.
You will never hear about skilled players in eve because they do not exists. It's a pure calculated game of who can throw more resources at something or who has paid CCP the longest for his skills.
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I wish it was different because the core of the game and the idea is great. Unfortunately the execution and reality is far from what CCP and the veteran player base wants you to believe.
Sorry to hear that your experience in EVE was bad OP, but it sounds like you were soloing EVE without the backing of a corporation at all. In the case where you are getting stalked and griefed by someone, you can take a various set of different actions such as moving to another, far away system for a while, try to kill him yourself after baiting him, getting the backing of a corporation who can help you "teach him a lesson", or if you don't want to do that, hire a mercenary corporation to go kill him.
You might view his following you as player harassment, but not so in this game. Yes, it is irritating and I have been followed before many a time in EVE but instead of feeling victimized, I used my smarts and I never got griefed.
This game is about winning because everything is about beating other players and corporations. When you play the market, you are engaging in economic PvP. When you mine, you are engaging in both economic but also industrial PvP, etc. High sec is not safe. There is no safe except in a station. Griefing is part of beating other players and is completely tolerated by CCP. That is the mindset you have to get into when playing this game. It is certainly not for everyone.
That being said, there IS a form of harassment and that is the really low down smacktalk in system chat. That is one thing I wish that CCP would clamp down on and start warning players over. There is no need to start insulting someone's nationality, race, whatever in system chat. However the ignore button works pretty well. I have had to block a lot of players though it can backfire if they are actually trying to get ahold of you to tell you something important. When I first started playing in 2005 players were a lot more polite in chat at least (even if they still tried to grief you). I started to see more and more smacktalk as the playerbase grew so yes, there was a notable degradation in behavior of players in that sense.
I have not played in a while but not because of smacktalk or anything of that nature. The game to be played properly requires a huge amount of time that I don't currently have. I would say, try the game again but with a different mentality and perhaps you will enjoy it more. I think that this game is really worth playing, perhaps one of the few and I really only have good things overall to say about it.
This game has always been tough on new players, but also tough on existing players, either you like it or you dont.
It might be tough on existing players... It is down right unforgiving for new players. As i said unless you have someone willing to babysit you, your stint with Eve will be short. Now it is worth pointing out that by "new player" i am talking about someone who is actually new... not one of us MMO vagabonds who wander in and out of games and just happen to go in to Eve for the first time... We know the ropes... how to find info and make contacts... No to new players... real new players... Eve is a horrid mess of archaic systems and a learning curve that starts at about 85 and then turns sharply upwards. Add the people who are not really right in the head and get their sadistic kicks from preying on said new players and i would say that yes... EvE have a MASSIVE problem when it comes to new players... But sadly, just like the US gun laws i see no good way to solve it without hurting the good people and cause a lot of grief.
Now with that being said, 85% of the Eve community is well aware of the fact that it is their "job" to make sure that new players stay and most are very warm and open... head in clouds and all. But as always those go pretty much unsung and we only hear about the 15% that behave like goons (or well... are... Goons) and show a stunning array of anti-social behaviour and a down right frightening lack of empathy.
So people... Hug your newbie and always keep a extra chep ride for them when they get podded... again.
another one of these "I had a bad experience with EVE so it's the same for everyone". truth is it takes about two calories to avoid what happend to you and yes this game is still not for everyone.
This game has always been tough on new players, but also tough on existing players, either you like it or you dont. The amount of metagaming and ganing is way beyond any other game, but its part of the game and as far as i know there arent many games where those tards can express themselves and get a litt boost of selfconfidence in their misserable lifes, so its natural that you will find groups of them in Eve. But in the total picture the gankers are not much of problems, sure some new players will quit due to the greetings from these peeps, but most of those that quit would have quit eventually anyway.
But there should be enough carebear mmo's out there for anyone to find something to their liking, just not try to ruin one of the only few games that stays tru to their ideals.
The thing is that there is nothing hardcore or skill based about eve. Even the skills are based on how long you paid CCP to get those skills.
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Even CCP calculates their amazing "metagame" based on how much currency was destroyed not how skilled a certain player or group of players are.
You will never hear about skilled players in eve because they do not exists. It's a pure calculated game of who can throw more resources at something or who has paid CCP the longest for his skills.
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I wish it was different because the core of the game and the idea is great. Unfortunately the execution and reality is far from what CCP and the veteran player base wants you to believe.
This is very wrong. Don't confuse your character skills with your skills. Your character skills are there to allow you to "equip" yourself: getting into new ships, using new and better mods on your ships, using new weapons, etc. It says nothing about how well you actually use them, say for example in PvP. Small skirmishes in EVE require skill and by that I mean player skill, knowledge of how to turn bad situations into good ones or just knowing how to avoid being ganked/griefed/etc.
Players with incredibly good ships and ship mods and great character skills can still suck at whatever it is they are trying to do.
another one of these "I had a bad experience with EVE so it's the same for everyone". truth is it takes about two calories to avoid what happend to you and yes this game is still not for everyone.
This game has always been tough on new players, but also tough on existing players, either you like it or you dont. The amount of metagaming and ganing is way beyond any other game, but its part of the game and as far as i know there arent many games where those tards can express themselves and get a litt boost of selfconfidence in their misserable lifes, so its natural that you will find groups of them in Eve. But in the total picture the gankers are not much of problems, sure some new players will quit due to the greetings from these peeps, but most of those that quit would have quit eventually anyway.
But there should be enough carebear mmo's out there for anyone to find something to their liking, just not try to ruin one of the only few games that stays tru to their ideals.
The thing is that there is nothing hardcore or skill based about eve. Even the skills are based on how long you paid CCP to get those skills.
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Even CCP calculates their amazing "metagame" based on how much currency was destroyed not how skilled a certain player or group of players are.
You will never hear about skilled players in eve because they do not exists. It's a pure calculated game of who can throw more resources at something or who has paid CCP the longest for his skills.
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I wish it was different because the core of the game and the idea is great. Unfortunately the execution and reality is far from what CCP and the veteran player base wants you to believe.
This is very wrong. Don't confuse your character skills with your skills. Your character skills are there to allow you to "equip" yourself: getting into new ships, using new and better mods on your ships, using new weapons, etc. It says nothing about how well you actually use them, say for example in PvP. Small skirmishes in EVE require skill and by that I mean player skill, knowledge of how to turn bad situations into good ones or just knowing how to avoid being ganked/griefed/etc.
Players with incredibly good ships and ship mods and great character skills can still suck at whatever it is they are trying to do.
I don't confuse anything you need to learn how to read.
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I played for 8 years and have 3 characters with 100mil SP. There is ZERO player skill in fights. The outcome is pre-defined because of the spreadsheet nature of the game and NO ONE engages in a fight they know they will lose. There is no PvP in this game only calculated ganking.
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If knowing how to run away is considered a skill then you are correct. Oh wait you confirmed this already. The EvE sandbox is full dog shit and you know it.
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Show me just ONE single article about a really SKILLED player of EvE. There should be some really famous players that played for a long time and have incredible skills at combat. Show me JUST ONE, i dare you! (skilled as in ability to fight not his SP)
I don't confuse anything you need to learn how to read.
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I played for 8 years and have 3 characters with 100mil SP. There is ZERO player skill in fights. The outcome is pre-defined because of the spreadsheet nature of the game and NO ONE engages in a fight they know they will lose. There is no PvP in this game only calculated ganking.
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If knowing how to run away is considered a skill then you are correct. Oh wait you confirmed this already. The EvE sandbox is full dog shit and you know it.
Buuuuuuullshit..
If you play with good pilots, SP is irrelevant. Beyond a certain point (getting T2 modules for your ship, and support skills to lvl 4), SP does nothing but diversify your options in regards to what you can fly, it does not make you better at the specific ship you are flying by enough to make you "automatically" win fights.
There are many small pvp entities that thrive on this misconception, luring in big fleets that think they will win based on numbers and ships alone, and i have flown with a few of them.
We would take on outnumbered and outgunned fights, coming out on top by using superior tactics, positioning and managing our resources far better than the opposing groups.
There are no good fights to be had unless you take risks. A ship is just a ship, a tool to have fun in PvP. There are plenty of players with that mindset (talking about number of pilots, not portion of the playerbase )
Eve is what you make it to be. If you want to be just another number in massive fleets, that's up to you, if you want to prey on the dumb and unprepared in low-sec piracy, thats up to you. Go find the group of players that suit you, be it empire manufacturing giants, small elite pvp groups, or giant nullsec entities, or you and your buddies farting about having fun doing whatever you want that day. its all up to you
Comments
Now that i think of it..... I dont think i have ever seen one of the "leets" post in your manner. Please do grace us with your excellence.
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
Actually, the fact that I stuck to EVE for 10 months IS what makes my complaint significant. I am the typical player they want to keep. I will pump money into the game as long as I have fun, and I've tried to do my best to work around the nastiness for the sake of playing a great game. Whether its in the first month or the first year, CCP's game simply can't keep new players on board anymore.
If you read more carefully, my point is that CCP is desperate for new players. All the initiatives point that way. There is NO company that hands out free gaming time or free put in extra man power to contact player individually "just out of the kindness of their heart." It is always to address an issue. And considering how much time and MONEY is spent into trying to keep new players, I would say that with every new player encountering bad blood within their first month (and I mean EVERY new player, I'm not exaggerating), it's time for them to sit up and listen.
CCP hands out bans. They do not completely cut themselves off from the game. I am just bringing up what I consider to be a very serious obstacle that they need to give more attention to. I sincerely believe bans are not the answer to this problem. They need to look at the game structurally to ensure that new players are getting the most out of their initial gaming experience, and not left at the mercy of bullies who have been allowed to push players around at will in an area where new players both spawn and develop.
This is serious problem -- one that I (and I agree with the poster here) CCP is not willing to address. And so the game is basically going to hell in a hand basket.
10 months in and you're still mining in highsec? Join a renter corp a mine in the safety and profit of nullsec. I suggest any of the corps here
There's a reason people like you wish it will 'change for the better' and we can respect that. But there's also a reason it's NOT the better and won't change.
You can give the noobs a place to play in free of any harm... we'll just call it like it is.... the carebear sector. They're all happy and dandy.... except they can't experience the real core of the game there. Doesn't matter how long they play in that sector, as soon as they leave to explore and see the world they're missing, reality will hit them and send their pod back to kansas and they'll flock here crying that they're imprisoned in the noob zone and can't get out and explore the way they want to because the rest of the ACTUAL game is too hard and they can't compete because the sector with the nice teddy bears didn't tell them that other players see them as food. And no, a pve only server here would be retarded and not in any way, shape, or form do any part of the game justice. If people want something like that, they can download an xwing vs. tie fighter torrent somewhere.
OR the only other option is to pull an NGE.... and that's when CCP will shut down.
So while it's admirable that everyone wants THE pvp mmo to cater to their casual or pve or unskilled or 'insert some other gaming disability/excuse here', it would in essence destroy the game, placing restrictions where there weren't any before and once again becoming just another game where the whiners won.
If people simply did a little research on games, I think a lot of these threads could be avoided. When I first entered into the MMO world, I heard of EvE. I did my research and discovered that the game most likely wouldn't be to my liking. So, I moved on to a game I thought I would enjoy more.
And to those berating the entire community by the actions of a very few, shame on you. All MMO's have the "griefers" in some form or another (kill-stealers, node stealers) , but a game's community should not be shunned by the actions of the few.
And there you go. That's why I believe EVE is dying. That's the message you get now when you start out in EVE. If you don't like the way you are treated, get the hell out of the game. The rest of the poster's comments about "staying locked inside a white room" pretty much sums up the attitude you are slapped in the face with your first month or so in EVE.
I love PvP. But the issue I am raising in EVE is that what is happening is NOT PvP by any stretch of the imagination. When 10-year old veterans who have sifted through all the ins and out of a VERY complex game and know all the manipulations available to them to win, and then go and freely push around inexperienced players who not only don't have the skills trained (in EVE its all about time to learn skills, not levels), but also faced against a steep learning curve which results in a massive number of mistakes in their first year just trying to learn the game, then IT'S NOT PvP. It's just a bunch of veterans who are bored of the game and have found a way to manipulate the game mechanics (i.e. exploiting a loophole) to take control of it. It's like the highly-geared OP jerk who goes to new player spawn points in a PvP server and kills all the newbies and defends himself by saying "Well the game allows it, so its fair game." How long do you think a new player will stick around if that's the experience they get over and over while they are learning the game? In EVE, if you are less than a year old, you are considered a new player. That's how hard the game is to learn.
If CCP insists this as fair game play, then they need to swallow the consequences that come with that decision and stop wasting money in new player initiatives. If this is the kind of game they want then they ought to pour their resources into trying to keep the current player base interested. However, every gaming company knows that in order to sustain your game, the rate of new player intake needs to balance out player attrition. Focusing on only the loyal players just doesn't work.
Let me reiterate what I said in the OP: CCP is looking for commitment from NEW PLAYERS. Their initiatives shout that loud and clear. This is why I insist that they making a serious mistake by protecting the wrong players in the game. It's like they are so scared of losing their VETERANS, they looking for a way around the problem instead of facing it straight on.
The "Open Sandbox" idea doesn't have to be compromised. But it does need to be reviewed. It's a unique approach I agree. But that's also what makes it so difficult to manage. CCP are pioneers of this type of gaming and so they need to look at their product against the present trends and adjust, and do it more regularly than the copycat mmorpgs of other companies. If they want to preserve their unique style of gameplay, they they need to stop being ignorant, and stop stubbornly sticking to this gaming style like it's timeless in its current form. They don't need to change into a typical mmorpg -- gawd I hope they don't. But they do need to address the problems with a gaming system where there are no case studies to learn from with their gaming competitors.
I'm sorry my posts are so wordy. But I do believe, even after 10 months, that EVE is a game worth saving. In fact, EVE in null sec is a pretty amazing. The problem they need to deal with is how to preserve new players in high sec long enough so they gain the skill and experience needed to function in null. A very, VERY small percentage of new players go straight to null... those who were lucky enough to join a corp already in an established alliance with SOV in null. And even then, their first few months will be spent in high sec for training purposes. But considering how much scrutiny corps put into taking new members, I'm betting that 90% of new players do not enter null until after a year or two. I've been in null. It's exciting. I got lucky with the corp who happened to find me wandering around, and then merged with a veteran corp who joined a null alliance. In this regard, I consider my journey to null quite rare. But even with my access to null sec, being a 10-month old player means my abilities to sustain my ship losses in null are just not strong enough to stay in null the whole time. I HAVE to go to high sec frequently to gather more ISK just to be able to move forward in the game -- and so have to subject myself time and time again to the bullies. I just got so tired of the abuse, that the null experience wasn't enough to keep me around.
This problem won't stand still. The more new players who join EVE and then leave from a bad community experience, the worse the reputation EVE will get. These players are NOT coming back. CCP doesn't get a second chance. There are just way too many options out there for that.
I agree. And if you read more carefully, you will see that that's not what I'm looking for. Having a "special place for newbies safe from the veterans" is a TERRIBLE solution. Veterans help new players. I agree But there is something going on in EVE right now breaking the game so badly, that the new players CCP wants just aren't sticking around.
Take PvP away from the new player, and you might as well kill the game before it starts. But where EVE is at now, the game is equally in trouble of dying. CCP needs to get creative and stop pulling out their bandaid box. It's needs a structural review.
Shameless recruiting in thread. I love it.
HUehuehuehueheuhAH AHH AHAHAHHAHA Xa0x0a0xa00x0a 0a00 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Man you made my day. Are you implying that EVE involves player skill? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
SO what DID YOU DO to dodge a missle the last time? Turned on an afterburner? :DDDDDD Man such skill wow i just can't comprehend the level of your skill its OUT OF THIS WORLD
No but really, there is no skill in EVE, just spreadsheets. EOL
And if we're going to call upper management a player skill then yeah maybe EVE requires *some* "skill"
We get it, you were ganked in game and ever since you've hated on it, we can live with that, i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it
but your tears are refreshing
I totally appreciate your comments. (well, maybe except for being called "son" but I can get over that pretty quick... most girls do.)
I think the part of EVE that is really enjoyable is the fact that you CAN'T run solo. In fact, a great corp got me early. They missioned me through a good NPC corp for standing purposes (literally let me leech off the rewards) and coached me on ship fits that saved me from a lot of failed experimenting to get me ahead in the game. This includes building good defense on my mining ships (not that it mattered -- no mining ship can stand up to the ganking going on now). The corp even moved to null and took me with them! I have seen a lot of EVE in my first 10 months than I think most new players get to see.
Community, I believe, is what makes a game keep their players. But the fact that you need to depend on others to advance in the game makes the need for a positive community experience that much more important if CCP wants new players to stick with the game.
Ten months may give you veteran status in other online multi-player games, but in EVE you're still considered a baby player. So when I say new players -- that's captures a huge span of time. For example, after 10 months, I'm just now picking up skills to fly T2 ships. While you may be surprised by this, it was because I focused my skill training on defense and missile power. I can't fly the T2 ships, but my T1s can withstand and deal a decent amount of DPS, and as long as I can gather enough ISK, i can always fly faction ships. In fact, I was coached by a veteran friend of mine to focus my skill training to go deep in particular specializations instead of spreading myself thin, and my gawd I'm glad I did. In my opinion, I got pretty much the best coaching you could probably get for a new EVE player. Maybe that's why I lasted 10 months instead of 10 weeks. And I love my corp. The guys are great, apart from the "woohoo! dude, we got a chick in corp!" excitement. haha.
But the experience with these gankers in high sec is just still just too unpalatable for me to continue. It's not just that I'm being ganked. It's watching them get away with such horrible behavior against other inexperienced players who didn't have the advantage I had of finding a good corp early. It sets the environment that I have to play in. The more I learn about EVE, the more I can see there's just no catching up my skills fast enough for me to survive what they are doing, or even combat to help other inexperienced players. These bullies are getting stronger and faster at their ganks. And they dual client so that the two gankers (both controled by one player) ensure the kill is successful. It's just too much to ask for a new player to combat against such experience, no matter what kind of good coaching you get. And how about a mining fleet? Believe me, these guys can handle that challenge. High sec has been hi-jacked, and with it, the future of the game.
Yes I've been told there are better ways to make ISK other than mining. -- exploration, PI, missioning, incursions... all areas that I was right at the beginning of learning. But consider this: PLEX prices are at an all-time high, the new popular gamestyle in EVE is to double client for efficiency which means you fund two or more accounts per month, and it takes skill training to be proficient in these areas of exploring the sites that give good isk, or being able to do PI on enough planets with enough power to make it a profitable ISK business -- which means your other skills that you wanted to focus on (like getting into that T3 ship asap) goes on the backburner. It's just too much to ask me to stay and tolerate such terrible community interaction when you consider how long it takes to get up and running. Day after day, these bullies are in your face. You are hit directly, or have to watch them hit others around you.
There's just no winning while these guys are making the EVE gaming life toxic and distasteful. I'm tired of it. That's why I'm done with EVE. If CCP doesn't care, why should I?
Yeah i know.. son/daughter does not roll as smoothly.. =P
Beyond that i pretty much agree fully. My story was pretty much the same. I was a trader/hauler for a good (as in nice and helpful) corp, i enjoyed the relaxed pace of moving stuff from one place to the other and the semi-danger of hauling ore for our miners once that became a big thing. But as you said... It became more and more difficult due to "pirates" so we had to have a bigger and bigger armed escort. Then came the arms race... In the end on a whim a corp decided to wipe us out. Most people left and i was sitting there... a trucker without anything to truck. =P I think i was playing for about three years in total before i drifted away. These days i do not bother to come back. Nobody need a hauler these days unless you are hauling in a deathstar..
This have been a good conversation
Fair enough. And I do appreciate the response, especially from someone who has been in EVE for a while. You certainly have more years in EVE than I. However, keep in mind that the opinion of a veteran and a "newer" player can be very different, simply because the world of EVE to a new player is, I believe, completely foreign to any veteran. I can tell by the way I get responses to my questions in corp. Many of them often don't realize just how "grass roots" they have to go into to answer my questions. I can't imagine any veteran being able to understand what a new player goes through today.
There are two points you bring up that i would like to speak to, however:
1. I agree, the buddy system was probably around for a while. But since joining 10 months ago, double clienting was "approved" by CCP shortly before I joined. I saw the announcement. People may have gotten away with a lot before, but the fact the CCP recognized it recently as an acceptable (dare I say, legal) approach to the game is what is being focused on. Also the recent "start a second account and we'll give you two-for-one gaming time for 6 months" is brand new. The "bring back your veteran buddy" is not brand new -- but newish. CCP IS looking for other ways to increase their player base by more accounts, it's clear. Companies don't start initiatives like this unless there's a problem, be it gaming companies or otherwise.
2. CODE has been around for 2 years. Their newest post celebrates that. Two years ago, EVE was in the Top 5 games listed in mmorpg.com. It had frequent articles show up in their weekly, and from what i read in the forums, it was considered one of the favorite games here. Within the last two years, I saw other games that cycled in and out of the top ranking games -- at least the ones at the top of the list that fit on my screen. EVE not only dropped out of the Top 5 only a year later, but now I can't even find them when I sort by rank/hype. It's disappeared. So telling me the game is okay certainly doesn't have the data here to prove it. For a games that's been around for 10+ years, that's clearly NOT player attrition. Something has gone wrong in the game. I accept that fad alliances come and go. But this is one is actually destructive to the game. When you mess with a new player base (again, that's as long as year-old players), then you are messing with a core part of the game's foundation and what it relies on to continue.
It doesn't matter to me that EVE's been around for 10 years or it has a leg up on another game in the past. The point is, what is happening at present is very unhealthy and the game playership is suffering for it. That's why I brought this up. I want to play EVE... really i do. It really is an amazing game. And I can tolerate a lot of garbage from players. A bully here, an immature mouth there -- i ignore it and continue. What is happening in EVE right now goes far beyond that. And it's an obstacle to new players who would otherwise discover the game as it should be played -- respectful PvP on several levels, and incredible industry-building opportunities. This new CODE movement are killing the game for new players before they even have a chance to see it for what it is.
History may have saved EVE in the past. But I believe, the problem they have right now is the kind that kills games. The saying goes, you are like the company you keep. If these are now the kind of players that EVE wants to support, then that'st he game they are trying to save -- and I don't think it's possible. Carebears don't save a game -- so whether they are there are not, I really really don't care. It's the toxic community that KILLS it.
These are just my opinions, I realize. That's what forums are here for. But I do believe it's close to the truth.
(P.S. omg i should stop reading these forum responses -- and stop posting. I need sleep!
)
Oh come on, man you know its true. There is no skill in EvE. All battles are decided before they even start. That's why there are only ganks and griefing not real skill based pvp combat.
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In EvE you either know you are going to win a battle or you run away. There is no skill involved other than knowing what you can beat with your current ship or setup.
That is why you never have real pvp in this game just ganking. It's a game full of cowards.
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PS: I have played EvE for 8 years, lived in null and wormholes, have 3 characters with over 100mil SP each. Yeah i was hardcore playing with 3 monitors and "solo" ganking. The game plays itself not much skill involved if you know how to pick your fights or where to bubble gates to catch the most "flies".
another one of these "I had a bad experience with EVE so it's the same for everyone". truth is it takes about two calories to avoid what happend to you and yes this game is still not for everyone.
This game has always been tough on new players, but also tough on existing players, either you like it or you dont. The amount of metagaming and ganing is way beyond any other game, but its part of the game and as far as i know there arent many games where those tards can express themselves and get a litt boost of selfconfidence in their misserable lifes, so its natural that you will find groups of them in Eve. But in the total picture the gankers are not much of problems, sure some new players will quit due to the greetings from these peeps, but most of those that quit would have quit eventually anyway.
But there should be enough carebear mmo's out there for anyone to find something to their liking, just not try to ruin one of the only few games that stays tru to their ideals.
"i won't ask for your stuff because, i think its possible we've already got it
"
HUehuehuehueheuhAH AHH AHAHAHHAHA Xa0x0a0xa00x0a 0a00 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!
ROFLMAO
I think I might need to get back to EVE again, hehehe...
"EVE, the only game where the smacks hurt more than the smacktalk..."
so say we all
Its the reason i left too... i just wanted to listen to my Dune audio books while doing some space missions in their "High Security" space in EVE... i got Suicide Ganked by groups of players over and over, even when i made sure they did not get any profit out of killing me.
I contacted CCP letting them know that they are doing it just to harass me as they were losing money by losing their own ships to destroy mine but CCP said its fine.
So i left and never came back...
EDIT: I`ll also add that CCP said that it was PVP... well maybe their definition of PVP is a 15 vs 1 fight where that one player can`t even attack first or his ship will get destroyed by the "police" and that with 15 people they can take out any mission ship before the "police" arrives to take them out. That is not PvP, that`s just pure griefing and CCP`s answer is "well buy a new GTC to sell in the game for a new ship!" essentially forcing you to fund your griefers.
Unless you absolutely enjoy griefing, there are better PvP games out there where they have systems in place to make sure its somewhat consensual and balanced.
The thing is that there is nothing hardcore or skill based about eve. Even the skills are based on how long you paid CCP to get those skills.
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Even CCP calculates their amazing "metagame" based on how much currency was destroyed not how skilled a certain player or group of players are.
You will never hear about skilled players in eve because they do not exists. It's a pure calculated game of who can throw more resources at something or who has paid CCP the longest for his skills.
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I wish it was different because the core of the game and the idea is great. Unfortunately the execution and reality is far from what CCP and the veteran player base wants you to believe.
Sorry to hear that your experience in EVE was bad OP, but it sounds like you were soloing EVE without the backing of a corporation at all. In the case where you are getting stalked and griefed by someone, you can take a various set of different actions such as moving to another, far away system for a while, try to kill him yourself after baiting him, getting the backing of a corporation who can help you "teach him a lesson", or if you don't want to do that, hire a mercenary corporation to go kill him.
You might view his following you as player harassment, but not so in this game. Yes, it is irritating and I have been followed before many a time in EVE but instead of feeling victimized, I used my smarts and I never got griefed.
This game is about winning because everything is about beating other players and corporations. When you play the market, you are engaging in economic PvP. When you mine, you are engaging in both economic but also industrial PvP, etc. High sec is not safe. There is no safe except in a station. Griefing is part of beating other players and is completely tolerated by CCP. That is the mindset you have to get into when playing this game. It is certainly not for everyone.
That being said, there IS a form of harassment and that is the really low down smacktalk in system chat. That is one thing I wish that CCP would clamp down on and start warning players over. There is no need to start insulting someone's nationality, race, whatever in system chat. However the ignore button works pretty well. I have had to block a lot of players though it can backfire if they are actually trying to get ahold of you to tell you something important. When I first started playing in 2005 players were a lot more polite in chat at least (even if they still tried to grief you). I started to see more and more smacktalk as the playerbase grew so yes, there was a notable degradation in behavior of players in that sense.
I have not played in a while but not because of smacktalk or anything of that nature. The game to be played properly requires a huge amount of time that I don't currently have. I would say, try the game again but with a different mentality and perhaps you will enjoy it more. I think that this game is really worth playing, perhaps one of the few and I really only have good things overall to say about it.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
It might be tough on existing players... It is down right unforgiving for new players. As i said unless you have someone willing to babysit you, your stint with Eve will be short. Now it is worth pointing out that by "new player" i am talking about someone who is actually new... not one of us MMO vagabonds who wander in and out of games and just happen to go in to Eve for the first time... We know the ropes... how to find info and make contacts... No to new players... real new players... Eve is a horrid mess of archaic systems and a learning curve that starts at about 85 and then turns sharply upwards. Add the people who are not really right in the head and get their sadistic kicks from preying on said new players and i would say that yes... EvE have a MASSIVE problem when it comes to new players... But sadly, just like the US gun laws i see no good way to solve it without hurting the good people and cause a lot of grief.
Now with that being said, 85% of the Eve community is well aware of the fact that it is their "job" to make sure that new players stay and most are very warm and open... head in clouds and all. But as always those go pretty much unsung and we only hear about the 15% that behave like goons (or well... are... Goons) and show a stunning array of anti-social behaviour and a down right frightening lack of empathy.
So people... Hug your newbie and always keep a extra chep ride for them when they get podded... again.
This have been a good conversation
This is very wrong. Don't confuse your character skills with your skills. Your character skills are there to allow you to "equip" yourself: getting into new ships, using new and better mods on your ships, using new weapons, etc. It says nothing about how well you actually use them, say for example in PvP. Small skirmishes in EVE require skill and by that I mean player skill, knowledge of how to turn bad situations into good ones or just knowing how to avoid being ganked/griefed/etc.
Players with incredibly good ships and ship mods and great character skills can still suck at whatever it is they are trying to do.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
I don't confuse anything you need to learn how to read.
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I played for 8 years and have 3 characters with 100mil SP. There is ZERO player skill in fights. The outcome is pre-defined because of the spreadsheet nature of the game and NO ONE engages in a fight they know they will lose. There is no PvP in this game only calculated ganking.
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If knowing how to run away is considered a skill then you are correct. Oh wait you confirmed this already. The EvE sandbox is full dog shit and you know it.
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Show me just ONE single article about a really SKILLED player of EvE. There should be some really famous players that played for a long time and have incredible skills at combat. Show me JUST ONE, i dare you! (skilled as in ability to fight not his SP)
Buuuuuuullshit..
If you play with good pilots, SP is irrelevant. Beyond a certain point (getting T2 modules for your ship, and support skills to lvl 4), SP does nothing but diversify your options in regards to what you can fly, it does not make you better at the specific ship you are flying by enough to make you "automatically" win fights.
There are many small pvp entities that thrive on this misconception, luring in big fleets that think they will win based on numbers and ships alone, and i have flown with a few of them.
We would take on outnumbered and outgunned fights, coming out on top by using superior tactics, positioning and managing our resources far better than the opposing groups.
There are no good fights to be had unless you take risks. A ship is just a ship, a tool to have fun in PvP. There are plenty of players with that mindset (talking about number of pilots, not portion of the playerbase
)
Eve is what you make it to be. If you want to be just another number in massive fleets, that's up to you, if you want to prey on the dumb and unprepared in low-sec piracy, thats up to you. Go find the group of players that suit you, be it empire manufacturing giants, small elite pvp groups, or giant nullsec entities, or you and your buddies farting about having fun doing whatever you want that day. its all up to you