Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

General: Atavism MMO Creator Heads to Steam Greenlight

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

For the would-be MMO megamind in all of us: Atavism is a new MMO creation package that allows players to get a quick start bringing their dreams to life. Atavism uses Unity as a front end system and acts as a plug-in, giving creators the ability to create nearly any type of MMO experience they wish.

What sets us apart from other engines is that we have a open plugin system already done with all the basic MMO systems you will need to get up and running within a few hours. You also get the server software which allows you to setup your own servers anywhere you want and give you full control with out any royalties or monthly subscriptions. Using Atavism as the back end server system and Unity as the front end client we have the best of both worlds where we have a solid networking system to allow thousands of players into one world while using the super advanced graphics rendering system of Unity as a client. Even non-programers can use Atavism to bring their ideas to creation with a easy drop down system.

Find out more about Atavism on its Steam Greenlight page.

image


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Comments

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,479

    this is pretty cool, I am no programmer in the slightest, but me and a buddy have been writting lore and gameplay for almost 20 yrs on a little project just for fun.  I might actually try to put it into gameplay

     

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140

    ...WOW.

     

    If this does what it claims, even most of what it claims- And does it well- its going to be a game changer for many people. This will be all I need to run a small private game and have it look fantastic and unique being able to use everything at the unity store...

    I am not going to get hyped until I actually get my hands on this thing or start seeing the reviews coming in...But this is really, really cool.

     

  • RebellonRebellon Member Posts: 49

    http://atavismonline.com/technology/video-demonstrations

    the videos are very impressive the huge and never ending terrain.

    Can't seem to find it on my Steam browser though.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    Originally posted by Rebellon

    http://atavismonline.com/technology/video-demonstrations

    the videos are very impressive the huge and never ending terrain.

    Can't seem to find it on my Steam browser though.

    Yeah dude- I saw those and was very impressed at how easy it looked , the options and the quality.

    This is really cool stuff. Looks almost as easy to use as something like RPG Maker but with a far greater level of complexity and a finished product which should look decent even when compared to professional mmorpgs.

     

  • SavantSavant Member UncommonPosts: 13

    I would caution anyone who is interested in this engine and have a dream to build an MMO with it to please check out the Atavism engine forums and related Unity forum threads. While there is a lot of positive feedback about the engine's ease of use, that feedback tends to come from a very non-programming crowd who do not understand some key features necessary for a proper MMO infrastructure.

    Authoritative server-side movement and collision detection are two very important features to prevent player cheating that the developers have continually danced around. After a lot of push from more vocal customers, they finally put it on their roadmap, but it continues to get delayed for implementation. Despite the lack of implementation, they call their engine in "beta". 

    Before you toss your money in for this engine, please do your homework and make sure this tool will meet your needs. As it currently stands, this engine is not feature-complete for a true MMO that has the proper security, authority, and availability functionality. It is passable as a casual multiplayer world, but unless some very critical features are implemented, Atavism will not be suitable for a commercial-grade MMO.

  • BearKnightBearKnight Member CommonPosts: 461

    As an indie developer: DO NOT TRUST ALL-IN-ONE ENGINES.

     

     

    Anything that toutes itself as being the "End All Solution" for MMORPG development generally have their scope far too big to actually be useful.

     

    I'd like to see (but could not find) their network architecture before I put any credence behind this. That's the only real "difficult" part to an MMORPG. Everything else is pretty easy to do.

     

    I myself have done an Earth-like planet that you can go from space -> surface without loading screens, lag, or major texture "popping" but the hardest part has always been the networking aspect to keep track of, at a minimum, 1000 players at a time.

     

    So far this just looks like a way to get kids interested in game development/programming (a good thing), or something to quickly prototype an idea out, but nothing to actually make a sustainable MMORPG out of.

     

     

    -Bear

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Member UncommonPosts: 1,140
    Originally posted by Savant

    I would caution anyone who is interested in this engine and have a dream to build an MMO with it to please check out the Atavism engine forums and related Unity forum threads. While there is a lot of positive feedback about the engine's ease of use, that feedback tends to come from a very non-programming crowd who do not understand some key features necessary for a proper MMO infrastructure.

    Authoritative server-side movement and collision detection are two very important features to prevent player cheating that the developers have continually danced around. After a lot of push from more vocal customers, they finally put it on their roadmap, but it continues to get delayed for implementation. Despite the lack of implementation, they call their engine in "beta". 

    Before you toss your money in for this engine, please do your homework and make sure this tool will meet your needs. As it currently stands, this engine is not feature-complete for a true MMO that has the proper security, authority, and availability functionality. It is passable as a casual multiplayer world, but unless some very critical features are implemented, Atavism will not be suitable for a commercial-grade MMO.

    Oh- And I am sure you are correct.

     

    I doubt we are going to see anyone and everyone hosting mmorpgs using this anytime soon. Way too many problems for a novice and this would require a pretty firm grasp of programming.

     

    However, to make a small MMORPG for a private group and be able to change the world to reflect the player driven narrative would be amazing. I am thinking more along the lines of using something like this to run a weekly game with my tabletop group and friends who live far away. A weekly/mothly game with an actual dungeon master and evolving storyline  for this private group.

    I think anyone wishing to make an actual full blown mmorpg is going to have about as much luck as someone using rpg maker to make a professional game- Granted people will buy this thinking they are going to make the next wow without even factoring in what a server would cost to host a MMORPG with thousands of players online all the time.

    But as a more intimate way to make smaller MMOs with running a dedicated server off a spare PC in your home- 10-20 or so players at most who are all there on an invite only status- This is perfect.

    -That said, I am trying to avoid hype but I can see alot of fun to be had with this if it works as advertised (or even close)

  • SavantSavant Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Yeah, the engine does not have a distributed server architecture. I would say "yet," but there are so many crucial infrastructure pieces they have not implemented (and keep saying they will), that I am doubtful they will deliver. Instead, they keep building these "plug-ins" which represent game object and interaction systems (e.g., combat abilities, crafting). That's all well and good, and it give the illusion of a full-featured MMO, but without a solid infrastructure base, I fail to see how this can be used for anything substantial.
  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 595

    We hold a License for Atavism for Greed Monger. I've personally developed a few of the plugins that come standard with Atavism right now. And I've got some other Plugins that I've created for Atavism and will be selling on their Plugin Store once it opens. Among them is a UniStorm Integration which allows the Server to handle generating Weather and handling the Syncing of the Day/Night Cycle with all connected Clients.

    Atavism still requires a vast amount of Work and has many missing features that have been promised to us since we bought the license back in January. Like the poster above me said some of the biggest features still missing include Server Side Collision and Physics, Authoritative Movement, and even Distributed Servers/Plugins (offloading resource intensive Plugins to their own Physical Hardware). There have also been some major bugs that we and others have reported repeatedly that have failed to ever be fixed. 

    If you are looking for a Hobby Project and have no strict time table then Atavism is certainly worth checking out inspite of it's flaws.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • sakersaker Member RarePosts: 1,458
    If it gets more people creating, hopefully creating something new, something different actually innovating expanding the genre then all to the good.
  • NeojacNeojac Member UncommonPosts: 157
    We are currently working on Server side collusion and you will see in our roadmap when we are trying to release it. Once that's done all the other aspects that has to do with movement and so forth will fall in place as they all relay on server side collusion. The big reason we did the basic systems first was so that developers can start working right away while we do the server side collusion as it takes allot of time to do and only will influence the game play once you are at the stage of full game play. As well the majority of developers wanted systems first before that, which we have now done all that's needed to get them going.

    www.neojac.com
    www.arcfall.com

  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 595
    Originally posted by Neojac
    We are currently working on Server side collusion and you will see in our roadmap when we are trying to release it. Once that's done all the other aspects that has to do with movement and so forth will fall in place as they all relay on server side collusion. The big reason we did the basic systems first was so that developers can start working right away while we do the server side collusion as it takes allot of time to do and only will influence the game play once you are at the stage of full game play. As well the majority of developers wanted systems first before that, which we have now done all that's needed to get them going.

    Authoritative Servers effects EVERY aspect of Game Play not just once you get to full game play. Your unable to do anything where the Servers needs to know about the world when Server Side Physics/Collision isn't implemented as a result of the Server having no concept of the world. Anything you want to do with Triggers isn't possible with out a server side Physics Engine. The list really goes on concerning things you can't do until collision/physics is implemented. Not to mention that what the Servers are capable of doing will change Dramatically once you add in Physics and Collision. This is something that SHOULD have been included right from the start before you guys even went public with Atavism because it's SO important. It shouldn't be an after thought added in later it should have been a key component of the Server built in when the Server was created. Instead your whole Server is based on a Failed MMO Engine (Multiverse) who they them selves were never able to add in Physics.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • SavantSavant Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Originally posted by Neojac
    We are currently working on Server side collusion and you will see in our roadmap when we are trying to release it. Once that's done all the other aspects that has to do with movement and so forth will fall in place as they all relay on server side collusion. The big reason we did the basic systems first was so that developers can start working right away while we do the server side collusion as it takes allot of time to do and only will influence the game play once you are at the stage of full game play. As well the majority of developers wanted systems first before that, which we have now done all that's needed to get them going.

    You have continually downplayed the importance of server side collision when the topic has been brought to your attention on the various forums over the past several months. Even though server side collision and authoritative server physics is something that is/should be transparent from a player experience perspective, it is fundamental from an engine performance and functionality perspective. 

    I certainly hope the Atavism server doesn't choke when it has to manage all connected players' collision, movement, and physics with the implementation, but it's very hard to not foresee that happening. As James stated, you should have put that feature into the engine at the beginning so that you can better gauge performance and optimization issues. Seems very suspect to claim thousands of connected players simultaneously when you don't have an authoritative server setup for reference.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    I am not a game developer.  I am, however, a developer, mostly of reports.  Performance management, SOX compliance, that kind of thing.  Boh-rang stuff.  However, I am very familiar with companies that offer tools that do a lot of the work for you, versus writing your own stuff in a .Net language or Java.

     

    You can have an All-In-One tool provided for you, but there are going to be a lot of limitations.  As long as what you need is provided by the tool, it's perfect.  This seems like the kind of thing that hobbyists would love, or even someone wanting to build a proof of concept or game demo.  A serious MMORPG project isn't going to be one guy, writing his (or her) dream game.  That's what Atavism provides.  A framework where very few people or even one person can actually build something.  It may be a personal hobby project, a demo or a proof of concept, but this is the kind of tool that will get you there quickly.  Expecting it to produce a commercial quality MMORPG is a bit disingenuous at best.

     

    It can be easy, or it can be complete, but it's not going to be both.  Not yet.  We're years away from that.  Even if we get Easy and Complete, we're not going to get Cheap.  They chose easy, which means a lot of people can use it.  That means it's going to be limited.  It doesn't matter if that server side collisions get put in there.  It's still going to be aimed at the 'easy' crowd, not the experienced/complete crowd.  If I didn't know better, I'd say the people b!tching about server side collisions are doing so to make themselves feel better, or sound like they know something.  That would never happen here though.

     

    **

     

    For what they are charging, expectations should be incredibly low.  Companies spend millions of dollars on game engines and MMO/MMORPG engines are even more expensive.  Cool yo' jets.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SavantSavant Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If I didn't know better, I'd say the people b!tching about server side collisions are doing so to make themselves feel better, or sound like they know something.  That would never happen here though.

     

    I would ask that you read the developer's marketing posts and website, and then the various threads on their forums as well as related forum threads on the Unity boards. You'll find a lot of folks (myself included, initially) fell victim to some pretty deceptive claims and promises that kept getting deferred. Some of that was naivete, but I feel that a lot of it was also the developer preying upon that lack of understanding by their target audience.

    Someone else already posted on the Steam community page stating he/she felt deceived by the marketing pitch after purchasing the product. He did get a refund back (or at least, it looks like he's going to imminently), but shouldn't the product not be marketed in that manner to begin with?

  • NeojacNeojac Member UncommonPosts: 157

    We have always been open with everything we are doing as we have a roadmap posted which dates back 8 moths from today and yes we are behind but only two months and all the server side collusion and everything else that's being complained about was scheduled there for everyone to see so how we are not transparent enough with our engine is beyond me. If you are saying we promise things that we are not doing please look to the roadmap, we have actually been adding a ton of things we originally did not put on the roadmap as we get requests from the other 150 developers who feels that those things are more important to have in.

     

    Here is a link to our Atavism Roadmap

    www.neojac.com
    www.arcfall.com

  • NeojacNeojac Member UncommonPosts: 157
    Originally posted by Savant
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If I didn't know better, I'd say the people b!tching about server side collisions are doing so to make themselves feel better, or sound like they know something.  That would never happen here though.

     

    I would ask that you read the developer's marketing posts and website, and then the various threads on their forums as well as related forum threads on the Unity boards. You'll find a lot of folks (myself included, initially) fell victim to some pretty deceptive claims and promises that kept getting deferred. Some of that was naivete, but I feel that a lot of it was also the developer preying upon that lack of understanding by their target audience.

    Someone else already posted on the Steam community page stating he/she felt deceived by the marketing pitch after purchasing the product. He did get a refund back (or at least, it looks like he's going to imminently), but shouldn't the product not be marketed in that manner to begin with?

    You should read the person who wanted a refund's post more clearly, the reason he wanted a refund is he felt intimidated about Unity which is not our product, and he got his refund immediately .  We don't state that we make Unity easy we state we make it easier for people to make a MMO with preset tools which is exactly what we have.

    www.neojac.com
    www.arcfall.com

Sign In or Register to comment.