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Why I left EVE -- and why you shouldn't bother with this game.
joosii
Member Posts: 38
I applaud Ikonoclastia for posting about his experience in EVE, and his list of incident after incident of degenerate behavior that is taking place in EVE. He beat me to it in fact. But I wanted to make a new thread because I believe this warrants one.
I just left EVE this week after 10 months, completely fed up and tired of the harrassment that goes on day after day. If it isn't me, it's always someone else I know. And I kid you not... DAILY... and REGULARLY. It has gotten to the point where players literally log on for the sole reason to go grieve players.
I too have submitted a report of harrassment where a player targeted me and only logged onto his main to check out where i was and to see if I was vulnerable. He would go as much as 15 jumps to find me. Five weeks straight! And I'm a new player. And if he was contacted by EVE about the issue, clearly he didn't get the message.
The problem CCP refuses to deal with is that games need to evolve, and stubbornly hanging on to old ways of managing the game is killing it. The "open sandbox" view may have once worked when the playing field was more leveled and the diversity of players was greater. But just as they "had hoped", the game has evolved by player participation. Unfortunately it has gone awry in a horrible way. The bullies who have fun griefing players are staying, and the new gamers (to EVE, or even just to the world of gaming) give EVE a matter of a few months (even if that) before they leave in disgust at the cruelty and anti-social behavior displayed in front of their faces day after day.
What is ironic is that it is clear CCP is panicking over a shrinking player base. Look at the promotions. In addition to the extension of the 14-day trial to 21 days if you sign up through a buddy (thinking that a friend will help them through the game), there are rewards for those who bring back reactivated accounts, and a 6-month promotion for players who create a second account (the idea of double clienting was only recently approved by CCP-- no surprised there why they did that). They have initiatives having a GM personally contact every new player within the first day or two -- a real live responding GM. Talk about dedicating resources to trying to keep new players interested -- personal contact is expensive. I know. I worked for a big company at the highest level. There are workshops they offer to new players. There are links galore to places where new players can get information on how to get used to the game.
But CCP is barking up the wrong tree. New players -- the kind who will invest in a game like this -- will very quickly get over the steep learning curve of EVE. The challenge of manuevering through the UI and discovering the various kinds of roles EVE allows you to play is enough to keep them engaged. The complexity is an encouragement to stay, not a deterrent. And once in a real corp, they will settle in fast. So in my opinion CCP has got it all wrong. It's not that new players are not coming because of the complexity of the game. They are not STAYING because of the community experience.
The newest griefing trend is this ridiculous Alliance called CODE who is trying to take over high sec by ganking defenseless miners and forcing them into some sick kind of ideology where they are forced to not only comply to an individual's style of gameplay, but they are actually "commanded" not to complain when they get their ship blown up, looted, and then podded. If you want to take a look at some of the most twisted degenerate kinds of people who are enjoying EVE right now, go take a look at their website. minerbumping.com. (I'm sure they will love the press here). Calling players cancer and degenerates in public is not cool -- nor is it appropriate in any setting, including gaming. And since high sec is the home to EVERY new player in EVE, every single one (and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE) will come into contact with this alliance within the first month or two. This alliance is literally holding "fun" as hostage and trying to force players to only play the kind of EVE game that gives them fun. The message: "play EVE how we want or get the hell out of the game." They claim they are making the game better, but in real fact, they are destroying the game -- and CCP is letting them do it.
If you want to make a program to see how fast you can get rid of new players in the game, this is EXACTLY HOW TO DO IT. The young players of EVE have no chance to even enjoy the game because they are bumped up again these bullies (no pun intended) and told "you are not welcome here unless you do things our way." Really CCP? You want to relinquish that kind of control? Because you are basically letting the game dig its own grave. When unsupervised, this is where the human mind degrades into. Or do you not study the history of the world AT ALL?
CCP has got to wake up. When a problem interferes with societal growth and development, like gangs or hate-generating ideologies, something needs to do something about it at the authority level. Unfortunately, gamers don't campaign for a game they only play for a few months -- or even just a year. They simply leave, and never tell anyone why. After all, who wants to admit they are being vicitimized for fear of looking weak and pathetic.
I wish they would just take their Terms of Service and actually follow it for once. They are letting way to many people get away with things that are hurting the game.
If you still don't understand the effects of how this alliance represents the EVE players who are destroying the new player base, take a look at the Stanford Prison Experiment by Zimbardo. It's a famous experiment which demonstrates how role-playing can have serious psychological effects on its participants. Unlike the experiment, players in EVE who are griefed just leave the sandbox. So its not loss to those players. The consequences of this fall entirely on CCP. And unless they sit up and pay attention, they can kiss their great game good-bye.
Comments
I been gaming and running guild since MMO'S have been around, its not just EVE, the behavior from gamers has gotten worse and worse each game and each year. I entered the industry and further my education to make better MMO's as well, but after seeing how people act this has made me not care about it anymore.
Gamers ruin MMO and the media, so its getting worse and its funny how some people do not want to believe it, they are killing this industry , the average MMO was 5 years for a lot of people to play, now is like 30-90 days... Which is sad... The industry will not change unless people stop acting this way...
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
funny how people play a game, then make THEIR personal experience, and think everyone else has to feel the same way.
for the record, some people actually like open pvp. that's what eve is about.
you got ganked? awwww, yea, welcome to eve, that's why you insure you ships, and that is the reason you do not fly ANY ship you cannot afford to lose.
you start to play a game after what, 10 years and now think YOUR opinion is the one that matters?
people play this game for ages. your post is not the first of it's kind, and will neither be the last.
and eve never gave a damn.
the problem is not that "The problem CCP refuses to deal with is that games need to evolve", but rather that THAT IS A FEATURE OF EVE.
the only sollution there is, don't play open pvp games if you don't like open pvp.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I had to check the date of this post to see if it was a necro, as these new promotions and policies have been around for a half a decade or more.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I wish I were CCP, I could use some more pocket change >.>
And feel free to say what you want. My life doesn't validate itself on the opinion of net nerds lol
I'm a lurker on these forums, and have been for the last 2-3 years. I never log in, nor do I post. But I saw this thread and I just had to say something (even if it's short).
I played EVE for almost 3 years, and I loved every second of it up until the last few months of play (I quit August of 2013). I always understood there'd be bad players, as it's a sandbox. I WANTED those bad players. But, when you get a community that's filled with those bad players it ruins the experience of the game. 10-20% of the community being players who strive to make your day bad is part of the game. When that percent becomes 70-80%...you've got a major problem. The only corporations that wanted to help lowbies out were HUGE corps that *could* support and protect the players.
The problem EVE, and the rest of the internet, seem to have is that players are getting more and more distant from understanding that you're playing verses another person. Back when I started in EVE, there were plenty of pirates and corps that wanted to kill players for their loot. It's part of the game. When I started, though, the players were also a lot more personable. They killed and podded me, but would sometimes apologize and say "Thanks for the good fight, it was fun" (EXTREMELY rare in any game now). I believe this is in every game online now. Children are being taught that it's okay to be mean online and that they can get away with it. A sandbox game is just the easiest way to do it, since there's no punishment..and you're actually ENCOURAGED to destroy the dreams of upcoming players.
/rant
The internet as a whole needs to grow past this childish need to hurt other people. I understand people have bad days, but taking it out on other people never solves anything. Kill a player...but don't, then, trash talk him for being a noob or trash. Even if they are..everyone started somewhere.
P.S. I'm 24, and started playing games when I was 9.
Am I missing something? Nothing you said here sounds like a problem, much less one that is threatening to kill the game.
I've played Eve off and on since 2006, and I have literally never been killed by another player in High sec. Align to a celestial and keep enough cap to warp when anybody comes on grid. Don't fly your hulk during Hulkagedon. Don't loot that juicy item from the conspicuously placed can. Not complicated.
If you're complaining about being killed in Low sec or nul sec, then you don't understand what the game is.
I've played Eve for many years, recently I have dropped my three subscription.
I can't say I have suffered much harassment in the game, and CCP has tried to make new player experience better. However, new players are MMO lifeblood, and a lot of the established player base maximises their advantage, both in experience and skill points over new players.
Unfortunately, CCP panders to these established players, and won't address some of the fundamental issues that needs to be addressed. The bounty system could be made to combat this, but somehow has missed the mark.
What Eve needs is the developers to listen to the players that suggest good improvements. The irony is that the players have done the hard work of coming up with clever creative suggestions (the PI cities and population sticks in my mind of a massive improvement to the PI sub game). Unfortunately they cave in the extremely vocal minority that rants on about PvP (which is more of a Iwinbutton in Eve, unless you have some very significant numbers on your side).
I wish Eve all the best, and still love the game, but I think both Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are seriously going to draw players away from Eve unless they make some hard decisions to make the game better for the new player.
The hard decision would be to even care about new players really. The current trend for a lot of gamers is to hop from one, to the next, to the next, to the next, etc. Not to mention the crowd that cries over sub fees. Then there's the elite 'pvp kills games' crowd on this site alone.
WHY would CCP care about any of these people? All of them would have at least one complaint about the game and quit as it stands right now. Big deal, there's a large group of players that have stayed for years, if not the entire decade of the games lifespan who don't share these complaints and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. So as usual, it comes down to keeping your loyal base that have been around for awhile and paid your bills for years. Or you cater to the new generation of game hoppers and whiners, which is what current games do, but aren't losing the money they obviously didn't put into development or quality assurance. I'm pretty sure the second option would be like CCP slittling it's wrists and watching it's subs bleed away until they're dead. Loyalty comes with some guarantees, going all NGE ends in failure as we've all seen before.
I could have written the same post a few times over the last ten years.
You played for three years, so take a well deserved break.
You WILL be back... Take my word for it.
I know very few who have played that long who manage to quit EVE permanently. It is pretty addictive that way...
Let me try to point it out this way. Yes there are a lot of people who have played eve for years and that is good, but with each year there are more & more established players quitting for one reason or another. Now if you run off new players what you have is an ever shrinking player base which is not good for any game.
So guilds or whatever they are called in eve and in every other game for that matter should be trying to help and develop new players and the companies/developers behind those games should be doing what they can to attract new players and to help them get started. At least doing that will maintain and maybe even grow the player base.
Basically in any game, people stop driving new people away, help them develop, every game needs new players.
Throw a bunch of trolls in a sandbox, and you get EVE Online. It's been this way for awhile, and it's literally the laughing stock of MMOs. There isn't any saving it, this is all by CCP's design. They buy up something as awesome as White Wolf, then cancel it. Trolls. They put out a 'cool awesome FPS' game...on a previous generation console. Trolls. The whole company is filled with trolls, it makes sense their game is too.
There's many other, better games on the internet. Uninstall, and move on.
Seriously, you need to also take into account that the game is 10 YEARS OLD. The long time players are getting old, maybe even bored at times. Shit changes as you get older. You could use the same exact argument with WoW, it's not retaining the numbers it once did, and people come and go from it all the time, but like EVE, it's far from dying. They're both veteran beasts that have stayed king of their respective hills longer than the current average gamer has likely even been playing games.
A few things:
New players are needed to make a game stay a live.. I don't really get your logic.
I have seen the gaming community grown worse during my 10-11 years of online gaming. Sad, but true.. I Do not know what caused it. If it's the younger generation that has taken over or what.
Eve Online doesnt need much change other then Plex prices dropping and something totaly shocking that makes nullsec implode.
Something epic like wormholes but on a much granter scale, maybe a paralel universe as big as Eve itself so other entity's can make a move to power.
I have quited and returned to Eve on regular bases like any Eve Online player.
But a better sandbox there is not.....
Could Eve Online improve ? oh hell yeah, many things could improve.
But that goes for any mmo or any game...
Truth big as a temple
+1
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
When the most cost-effective way to play EVE is not to undock, it's not very hard to see the game has problems.
But CCP has chosen their way. Time will tell if they will stick to their guns to the bitter end.
After 10 years in the game under a subscription model (something that only a handful of games have achieved) I think they've chosen their way quite ok.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
10 months... Son you are barley long in the game to be called green... heck you are proto-green.
But yes... you are by all accounts right, eve is not a game that the solo players will EVER get any where in unless he is very very lucky. Nope... You need someone to show you the ropes, help you program your jump points and early in the game... Babysit you. The bigger that someone is the better. That will not stop the pirates but it will make the blows feel a bit less. As for CCP changing Eve... Nope... Not going to happen. It would be the end of the game and by extension CCP.
Eve is a game that does not give any quarter, does not make any excuses and is a gold mine for social studies. It is not a game for beginners.
This have been a good conversation
this
and this
It's people who take it personal and than come whine here over-exagerating.
It is just a game. Use ignore and report features if individuals annoy you in chat or close it down and join on of the other thousands of chat channels.
You got ganked? Welcome on the quest how to adapt! Quit game out of dozens of possible solutions? Your loss.
That is the exact fun feature of EvE - to learn the game mechanics, to adapt the randomnes of player driven world. I understand it's too much for many to handle but you're nothing but a cry baby comming on forums and telling others to not play because you are butthurt.