Free to play is an excuse for a developer to poke you for money every chance they get, and get away with it because the game is "free". The whole thing feels slimy and wrong to me, and I think the game play can really suffer. Games get grindy when you hide content behind unlocks that are technically free, with walls that are designed to be so tall that they annoy people into paying money for content, and that freaking sucks. Menus constantly point you at "deals" and the like, the developer is constantly whispering in your ear for you to pay them, it's free after all, they deserve it right? The real shitty part is that if you want to see all the content, the free to play model is vastly more expensive than a normal one assuming you don't want to waste all your time in the "free" version grinding for stuff. Even "premium" packs and accounts are more expensive in the long run, just another way it feels like the developer is trying to bleed you of the money they didn't ask for up front. I would much rather a developer dispense with the bullshit, and ask for a smaller chunk of cash up front, and then promptly stay the fuck out of the way and let me enjoy the content. That way, at least I don't feel like I'm being hustled for more money every time I look away for a minute.
Oh, as for an example of free to play bullshit at it's best, I think we need look no further than a game like MechWarrior Online. With all their founder packs and absurdly priced mechs and such, I can practically feel their greed oozing through my computer screen every time I feel like playing it again. I kinda get this vibe from the Star Citizen founding packs as well, but that might just be the burn I got from MWO >.>.
Originally posted by midnitewolf It really depends on how greedy the developer gets. Take MWO for example. I really enjoy the game but they started off by taking our Founders money to support other projects. Then they tell us we aren't the demigraphic they they are designing the game for but thanks for all your money. Then they reduce C-bill earnings drastically. Then they offer these wonderful expansion mech packs for quite a bit money and then make it so you have to wait 2-6 months before you can acquire them F2P. This is all just pain greed to be honest and these sort of decisions make it really hard to get behind the developer or feel confident in investing either time or money in the game.I mean Clans are dropping today yet, it will be 2 months before Free-to-play can access any of that content and up to 6 months before you can get the final mech. I mean the attitude of. "pay hundreds of $$ for it up front or wait 6 months to access it" goes a little beyond paying for convenience that are supposed to be halmark of F2P games.Anyway, F2P works fine when they really are paying small amounts for cosmetics or tmaybe even $10-$15 a month for a sub to earning income or experience at maybe a 50% increase, but saying, "Pay $55 or wait 6 months" for new content just ruins the game.
This is as hilarious as it is tragic. A shining example of the evil that is F2P: a constantly evolving pricing model that becomes more P2W over time. Everyone has a P2W threshold, and devs keep pushing it until critical mass is reached; soaking up as much $ along the way as possible. They'll even toss in some gambling to bleed the gaming addicts completely dry. Like that recent SWTOR debacle. Anyone besides me feel dirty for even associating with this industry?
You do realize that you just described P2P.... And the reason why many people now prefer F2P. With a F2P game, you have the CHOICE to pay for the stuff, or just keep playing with what you have. With P2P, you pay first, then have to pay extra (for the expansion or such) and you may even have to pay some more for specific items, all of this BEFORE you even get to see if there is any value there.
The "choice" that you are presented with in free to play games is a pretty miserable one I think. A lot of time the free version feels crippled in a very real way compared to something like a pay to play model. In the pay to play model, you say that you must pay money before you know you will even like something, which isn't true. I think as a consumer, you should always know what you are getting into before paying for a game with that kind of model, doing otherwise would be silly. After a little research, you can buy into a pay to play game with relative safety, and you can be sure that you likely won't be poked for money every five minutes afterwards. Guild Wars is an excellent example of this, Guild Wars 2 as well to a lesser extent.
Originally posted by MadDemon64 Well, given that subjects like these tend to bring out the people who make puppet accounts to make something seem worse/hated more than it actually is...
Lol I often wonder how many people make ghost accounts to vote more than once. But honestly, I know of only one guy on these forums with enough time on his hands to undertake such a venture.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The OP make a perfect point about how the market system works, The Market does not give Consumers what they want, The Market gives what Consumers respond to....
Barely over 1 in 4 respondents here prefer F2P. Didn't think it'd be that low. Yet the industry is jamming it down our throats. Ok I'll stop replying to my own thread now...
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Barely over 1 in 4 respondents here prefer F2P. Didn't think it'd be that low. Yet the industry is jamming it down our throats. Ok I'll stop replying to my own thread now...
There is also no option for will play anything as long as the model is done fairly. The poll is broken. This is why I didnt vote and I am sure the same poll with that option would boost the F2P option. Also when a poll is given, taking a negative stand on the subject also messes up the poll. You need to be much more subjective. The poll needs to also presented objectively. Do you hate F2P is not how you get real results. People have an answer before they vote and dont get the context.
Originally posted by Gravarg F2P cost more than P2P, and you get less content for the extra money...
Not true, depends all upon how they go about gaining revenue.
Personally, to avoid the speculating of "if done right," I can really care less if a game is F2P or P2P. If the game is good and I enjoy it then I'll play it. I played significant amount of time with DDO post F2P conversion. I would still play it if it weren't for it's very dated graphics/engine that prevents any smoothness with combat, plate in tights armor that a 5 yr old can design better graphically, and how at lvl cap you progressions really evolves around TRing over n over n over n over again till way past the point that the blood of your bleeding eyes have all been dried up.
If WoW went F2P I'd still play it, if WS went F2P I still won't play it as it doesn't entice me all that much and not worth the time investment.
But sadly any F2P game typically tends to have horrid nickle n diming like Neverwinter or SWTOR.
I loathe F2P as a payment mosel because it inevitably leads to games being designed around the Cash Shop. Let's face it, if the CS items were really truly optional, the game would most likely not survive, even if it had minimal new development.
In generally, companies will go with the payment model they feel will earn them the most profit, whether their estimation of how long they can keep the game going be long or short term.
I think the F2P model has given rise to too many games which probably shouldn't exist in the market, whether this is good or bad I'm not sure. I would lean towards bad because they feel as though they are cheap cash grabs but I would counter with, if people are going to be stupid with their money, who am I to say otherwise.
F2P gamesa allow people to enter a game 'risk-free' and companies use this to entice people to continue playing. The longer someone plays a F2P game, the higher the chance they will start to spend money. I really believe that the majority of F2P gamers spend money and likely don't realize how much they actually spend on the games they are active in. When you spend small amounts of money, here and there, you're much less likely to track the sum unless you are OCD. It's not the same when you have a subscription game. It's easy to recall how much you've spent on a sub game because it's a repetitive, static charge.
The original US F2P incarnations were typically highly restrictive unless you paid or had too many aspects of 'pay-to-win' which may be why the older or more 'seasoned' gamers see the model in a negative light. I, for one, have a bias against F2P games because they generally mark the beginning of the end for a game. Where the developers start restricting access unless you pay for the privilege.
Even when you get into a F2P game that is built from the ground up as one, you're always reminded that they want you're money, constantly asked to open your wallet.
Originally posted by DamonVile When you sample the complaint department you'll find most people have a complaint. That doesn't mean most people in the store do.
The problem isn't the subscription with most games, but their quality and longevity. And if a game is released with a subscriptiooon-model and fails to deliver, there's no wonder why people leave. Once those games turn to F2P there might be a player-influx, but the quality is just as bad as before or even worse.
Also, $10-15 subscription a month is totally reasonable for a MMO and it would be even more reasonable, if the greedy developers would stop charging extra for expansions. Look at EvE Online. No box-price no expansion-costs, just $15 a month or 50 cent a day. That's the best model there is for a MMO imho.
Another problem with most F2P-games is, that you can't play them to their full extend without using the cash-shop, so they're nowhere near F2P, but only Free2Try. Most good MMOs have a free trial tho. Most F2P-titles force you to pay for bag-slots, crafting-materials neede for enchanting etc and once you calculate the effective price you're forced to pay to play the game in it's full extend you end up with the same $10-15 per month.
Developers should stop developing one bad MMO after another and try to grab some cash with it, but rather focus on making one decent MMO they can charge a monthly subscription for where people actually want to pay the subscription in return.
Barely over 1 in 4 respondents here prefer F2P. Didn't think it'd be that low. Yet the industry is jamming it down our throats. Ok I'll stop replying to my own thread now...
Clearly this site is not representative.
LoL is F2P and made $600M in 2013. TOR is F2P and made $200M in 2013. You don't think those players are voting here, do you?
Im not a subscription supporter, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see the problem there. In a healthy mmo, subscriptions are cheaper than what the whales need to pay to keep the F2P servers running. But a lot of subscription mmos nowadays come with F2P quality content, just a little bit more polished (smooth) mechanics so they all end up being F2P anyway.
So what is the problem unless you are a whale?
im not a whale, a game would die dry before a become a whale. And to answer your question, THAT is the problem, the whales. Completely free players will have fun if they get the full game for free (sounds cool, right?) yeah, but the game has a high risk of dying because the minority keeping the game alive wont always be there to save the day. In an environment where everyone is on equal footing the game tends to live longer (if the game is good). I dont want to sound like im suddenly prefering subs, i dont. But i hate when i like a F2P game and it shuts down because its not making enough money, or it becomes pay to win to please the whales because it wasnt making enough money with a decent cash shop.
So what if a game closes down. It is not like there is a lack of F2P games. You can go to the next game. It is not like if you care if a dev has to close their doors, right?
So tell me, what is the problem with un-ending free fun?
Another problem with most F2P-games is, that you can't play them to their full extend without using the cash-shop, so they're nowhere near F2P, but only Free2Try.
Why is that a problem? I don't need to play to "their full extent" to have fun.
Take Marvel Heroes as an example. I finished the story campaign for TWO characters without paying a single dime. Surely, i don't get the "full extent" since there are other characters which cost money .. but so what? I still enjoy the two i played.
I really don't care if the game is f2p or p2p if the creators of the game can really grab my attention after all the hard work they put into the game. Then that to me is priceless
If I see ****Free to Play**** I don't bother paying any attention to the game. I could careless how you try and describe to me how the games cash shop works or how the pay model is set up to be epic or any other words the children say today, I will just write it off and wait for the next game that catches my eye to come around, but as soon as they say F2P, I'm out.
I don't mind paying for entertainment as long as its, well.... entertaining. I could careless if you can play your character to the end without paying a dime, I still doubt the game is going to be anything other than a pile a shit.
Barely over 1 in 4 respondents here prefer F2P. Didn't think it'd be that low. Yet the industry is jamming it down our throats. Ok I'll stop replying to my own thread now...
Clearly this site is not representative.
LoL is F2P and made $600M in 2013. TOR is F2P and made $200M in 2013. You don't think those players are voting here, do you?
You can prefer a sub-based payment model while playing a F2P game. How many of those players who spend money in those games would prefer it being sub-based? That might actually be an impactful statistic, what you're saying isn't.
I don't mind paying for entertainment as long as its, well.... entertaining.
And you mind NOT paying for entertainment as long as its, well... entertaining?
If a game is entertaining to me, and free, tell me, is there a reason why i should not play it?
Well if its "truly free" and "with out restriction" then you and i can say,We dont hate free to play games.. I like pay to play games at least i don't feel restricted in slot bags, like i do in a so called "Free to Play with restriction" with a over price item mall. Yeah yeah i heard it before the devs need to eat to.. The point is moot. Dont make Games free to play...
I don't mind paying for entertainment as long as its, well.... entertaining.
And you mind NOT paying for entertainment as long as its, well... entertaining?
If a game is entertaining to me, and free, tell me, is there a reason why i should not play it?
Well if its "truly free" and "with out restriction" then you and i can say,We dont hate free to play games.. I like pay to play games at least i don't feel restricted in slot bags, like i do in a so called "Free to Play with restriction" with a over price item mall. Yeah yeah i heard it before the devs need to eat to.. The point is moot. Dont make Games free to play...
Why does restriction matter if the game is fun even with restrictions?
I play marvel heroes. It is entertaining to me. Yes, it restrict me to play only 2 heroes. So what? Is there a reason i should not play this restricted *fun*, and free game?
Barely over 1 in 4 respondents here prefer F2P. Didn't think it'd be that low. Yet the industry is jamming it down our throats. Ok I'll stop replying to my own thread now...
Clearly this site is not representative.
LoL is F2P and made $600M in 2013. TOR is F2P and made $200M in 2013. You don't think those players are voting here, do you?
No, and it looks like none of those gamers are playing for free either, in fact, they appear to be getting milked pretty well in fact.
People like to pay for their gaming, just sometimes they don't get any choice in how they get to do it.
Like your examples. Besides, TOR derives substantial revenue who pay them monthly.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Free to play is an excuse for a developer to poke you for money every chance they get, and get away with it because the game is "free". The whole thing feels slimy and wrong to me, and I think the game play can really suffer. Games get grindy when you hide content behind unlocks that are technically free, with walls that are designed to be so tall that they annoy people into paying money for content, and that freaking sucks. Menus constantly point you at "deals" and the like, the developer is constantly whispering in your ear for you to pay them, it's free after all, they deserve it right? The real shitty part is that if you want to see all the content, the free to play model is vastly more expensive than a normal one assuming you don't want to waste all your time in the "free" version grinding for stuff. Even "premium" packs and accounts are more expensive in the long run, just another way it feels like the developer is trying to bleed you of the money they didn't ask for up front. I would much rather a developer dispense with the bullshit, and ask for a smaller chunk of cash up front, and then promptly stay the fuck out of the way and let me enjoy the content. That way, at least I don't feel like I'm being hustled for more money every time I look away for a minute.
Oh, as for an example of free to play bullshit at it's best, I think we need look no further than a game like MechWarrior Online. With all their founder packs and absurdly priced mechs and such, I can practically feel their greed oozing through my computer screen every time I feel like playing it again. I kinda get this vibe from the Star Citizen founding packs as well, but that might just be the burn I got from MWO >.>.
You do realize that you just described P2P....
And the reason why many people now prefer F2P. With a F2P game, you have the CHOICE to pay for the stuff, or just keep playing with what you have. With P2P, you pay first, then have to pay extra (for the expansion or such) and you may even have to pay some more for specific items, all of this BEFORE you even get to see if there is any value there.
Lol I often wonder how many people make ghost accounts to vote more than once. But honestly, I know of only one guy on these forums with enough time on his hands to undertake such a venture.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Barely over 1 in 4 respondents here prefer F2P. Didn't think it'd be that low. Yet the industry is jamming it down our throats. Ok I'll stop replying to my own thread now...
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
There is also no option for will play anything as long as the model is done fairly. The poll is broken. This is why I didnt vote and I am sure the same poll with that option would boost the F2P option. Also when a poll is given, taking a negative stand on the subject also messes up the poll. You need to be much more subjective. The poll needs to also presented objectively. Do you hate F2P is not how you get real results. People have an answer before they vote and dont get the context.
Not true, depends all upon how they go about gaining revenue.
Personally, to avoid the speculating of "if done right," I can really care less if a game is F2P or P2P. If the game is good and I enjoy it then I'll play it. I played significant amount of time with DDO post F2P conversion. I would still play it if it weren't for it's very dated graphics/engine that prevents any smoothness with combat, plate in tights armor that a 5 yr old can design better graphically, and how at lvl cap you progressions really evolves around TRing over n over n over n over again till way past the point that the blood of your bleeding eyes have all been dried up.
If WoW went F2P I'd still play it, if WS went F2P I still won't play it as it doesn't entice me all that much and not worth the time investment.
But sadly any F2P game typically tends to have horrid nickle n diming like Neverwinter or SWTOR.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
In generally, companies will go with the payment model they feel will earn them the most profit, whether their estimation of how long they can keep the game going be long or short term.
I think the F2P model has given rise to too many games which probably shouldn't exist in the market, whether this is good or bad I'm not sure. I would lean towards bad because they feel as though they are cheap cash grabs but I would counter with, if people are going to be stupid with their money, who am I to say otherwise.
F2P gamesa allow people to enter a game 'risk-free' and companies use this to entice people to continue playing. The longer someone plays a F2P game, the higher the chance they will start to spend money. I really believe that the majority of F2P gamers spend money and likely don't realize how much they actually spend on the games they are active in. When you spend small amounts of money, here and there, you're much less likely to track the sum unless you are OCD. It's not the same when you have a subscription game. It's easy to recall how much you've spent on a sub game because it's a repetitive, static charge.
The original US F2P incarnations were typically highly restrictive unless you paid or had too many aspects of 'pay-to-win' which may be why the older or more 'seasoned' gamers see the model in a negative light. I, for one, have a bias against F2P games because they generally mark the beginning of the end for a game. Where the developers start restricting access unless you pay for the privilege.
Even when you get into a F2P game that is built from the ground up as one, you're always reminded that they want you're money, constantly asked to open your wallet.
What are you implying?
I've never played a F2P-game and never will.
The problem isn't the subscription with most games, but their quality and longevity. And if a game is released with a subscriptiooon-model and fails to deliver, there's no wonder why people leave.
Once those games turn to F2P there might be a player-influx, but the quality is just as bad as before or even worse.
Also, $10-15 subscription a month is totally reasonable for a MMO and it would be even more reasonable, if the greedy developers would stop charging extra for expansions.
Look at EvE Online. No box-price no expansion-costs, just $15 a month or 50 cent a day. That's the best model there is for a MMO imho.
Another problem with most F2P-games is, that you can't play them to their full extend without using the cash-shop, so they're nowhere near F2P, but only Free2Try. Most good MMOs have a free trial tho.
Most F2P-titles force you to pay for bag-slots, crafting-materials neede for enchanting etc and once you calculate the effective price you're forced to pay to play the game in it's full extend you end up with the same $10-15 per month.
Developers should stop developing one bad MMO after another and try to grab some cash with it, but rather focus on making one decent MMO they can charge a monthly subscription for where people actually want to pay the subscription in return.
Clearly this site is not representative.
LoL is F2P and made $600M in 2013. TOR is F2P and made $200M in 2013. You don't think those players are voting here, do you?
So what if a game closes down. It is not like there is a lack of F2P games. You can go to the next game. It is not like if you care if a dev has to close their doors, right?
So tell me, what is the problem with un-ending free fun?
Why is that a problem? I don't need to play to "their full extent" to have fun.
Take Marvel Heroes as an example. I finished the story campaign for TWO characters without paying a single dime. Surely, i don't get the "full extent" since there are other characters which cost money .. but so what? I still enjoy the two i played.
If I see ****Free to Play**** I don't bother paying any attention to the game. I could careless how you try and describe to me how the games cash shop works or how the pay model is set up to be epic or any other words the children say today, I will just write it off and wait for the next game that catches my eye to come around, but as soon as they say F2P, I'm out.
I don't mind paying for entertainment as long as its, well.... entertaining. I could careless if you can play your character to the end without paying a dime, I still doubt the game is going to be anything other than a pile a shit.
And you mind NOT paying for entertainment as long as its, well... entertaining?
If a game is entertaining to me, and free, tell me, is there a reason why i should not play it?
You can prefer a sub-based payment model while playing a F2P game. How many of those players who spend money in those games would prefer it being sub-based? That might actually be an impactful statistic, what you're saying isn't.
Well if its "truly free" and "with out restriction" then you and i can say,We dont hate free to play games.. I like pay to play games at least i don't feel restricted in slot bags, like i do in a so called "Free to Play with restriction" with a over price item mall. Yeah yeah i heard it before the devs need to eat to.. The point is moot. Dont make Games free to play...
I retired retroactively..Haha
Why does restriction matter if the game is fun even with restrictions?
I play marvel heroes. It is entertaining to me. Yes, it restrict me to play only 2 heroes. So what? Is there a reason i should not play this restricted *fun*, and free game?
No, and it looks like none of those gamers are playing for free either, in fact, they appear to be getting milked pretty well in fact.
People like to pay for their gaming, just sometimes they don't get any choice in how they get to do it.
Like your examples. Besides, TOR derives substantial revenue who pay them monthly.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon