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Was Wow the first at any of these things?

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  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,782
    Originally posted by Ende

    12. ingame GMS and support tickets.

    13.Trinity Combat system

    Ingame GMs were more common pre-WoW. As MMOs have evolved, now it's easy to do more tasks automated or with tools that are more effective than GM taking avatar to move around the game-world.

    Trinity combat comes from tabletop RPGs and predates computer games.

     
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,543
    I've never heard anyone say wow wad the first mmo or the first seamless world or the first with no loading screens... ever.

    I've heard lots of people in these forums say that about people who like wow though.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by Ende

    .... 

    Ok lots of these r obviously not created by Wow first but if anyone can tell us what games they remember did them first would be awesome :)

    I care only for that Wow is best game ever invented. Imo, of course. :-)

  • loulakiloulaki Member UncommonPosts: 944
    Originally posted by Ende

    1.  LFG - Looking For Group, tech to find groups.

    2. Flex Raiding - a raid which can be made up with variable numbers of players.

    3. Flying

    4. Rated Battlegrounds - not sure how this can be claimed by Wow as a first lol

    5. Challenge Modes - to do dungeons in a timer

    6. Phasing - multi layered areas in the MMO world

    7. Auction House

    8. Crossrealm tech - basically all realms now play out in the world together.  

    9. Instances

    10. Talent tree

    11. Seamless mapping - all the zones in 1 large map without loading screens.

     

    from  my tiny experience and knowledge i know that:

    1. i have no idea about LFG

    2. for sure Everquest had these before WoW, the developers were inspired but that game anyway...

    3. even Lineage2 (if you were leader of guild, if you had a strider max level, if you have done a special,usual grind quest and if you had a castle .. rofl all these) you could have a flying dragon !!! i remember in a private server everyone had one, it was amazing xD

    4. i think DAOC had rankins based on the realm PvP, but this atrocity of battlegrounds i dunno...

    5. no idea, but in Lineage2 there were bosses that if you killed them in time they had much better drops..

    6. i dont get it, what you mean ..

    7. EVE online, much better executed ...

    8. no idea

    9. Everquest series i bet

    10. every MMO ? like Lineage2 etc, it wasnt something unique anyway ..

    11. Lineage2 for sure had a seamless world. ..

    image

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    I've never heard anyone say wow was the first mmo

    i see it in nonWOW mmo chats but its to troll the chat

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,094
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Ende

    I thought id jump over here to check with some MMO 'experts' in response to a discussion currently underway on a Wow forum... thats a discussion about what features in MMO gaming did Wow introduce into MMO gaming?

    Im sure that the vast knowledge on these forums can shed some light on what MMOs were first to use any of the features below :)

     

    1.  LFG - Looking For Group, tech to find groups.

    2. Flex Raiding - a raid which can be made up with variable numbers of players.

    3. Flying

    4. Rated Battlegrounds - not sure how this can be claimed by Wow as a first lol

    5. Challenge Modes - to do dungeons in a timer

    6. Phasing - multi layered areas in the MMO world

    7. Auction House

    8. Crossrealm tech - basically all realms now play out in the world together.  

    9. Instances

    10. Talent tree

    11. Seamless mapping - all the zones in 1 large map without loading screens.

     

    Ok lots of these r obviously not created by Wow first but if anyone can tell us what games they remember did them first would be awesome :)

    3. flying - city of heroes in 2005

    9. Instances - Anarchy Online 2001

    11. Seamless world -  Asherons Call 1999

    WoW was sadly first at many features that I personally abhor and consider the bane of online gaming.

     

     

    Namely the Linear Quest Grind to progress.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • ArthasmArthasm Member UncommonPosts: 782
    What Wow did 1st and best than others is - story. The biggest background before MMO came.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,753
    WoW introduced very little in the way of new ideas to MMO gameplay. It was how the game was packaged that made it so different. You were led to each quest, the world was fuller, you did not even need an average spec PC to play it. They certainly improved on many areas of gameplay, but created little that was new. Overall I think it was a great step for the genre, unfortunately its success made it the only step the genre went on to take. Subsequently newer MMOs built themselves on the WOW model but went too far. They went with the idea that more of what made WoW good, could only make for a better game. So we have ended up with horribly dumbed down easymode games.

     25 Agrees

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  • versulasversulas Member UncommonPosts: 288
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by Azmodeus

    Wow is the reason the MMO genre today is as bad as it is. 

    Dont blame WoW for todays level of incompetence in mmo development. Blizzard has done something right and that is make content at the highest level of polish we can have, no matter if it was new or pre-existing content. 

    I'm not going to shake my fist and call them the bad guys, but I think WoW was a turning point for the genre.

     

    For all that it copied, even vanilla WoW was fundamentally different than its predecessors in that it propagated all those cringe-words like "leveling hubs", "on-rails", "fedex quests", "endgame", and so on. With Class Quests, item rewards, and a lack of mob camps and pull zones, it was dubbed "quest-based".

    Wherever the labels originated, WoW had them, and since it was the big one, it became the blueprint for the themepark design concept.

     

    Now, I'm not saying those older games were trying to be sandboxes... The genre wasn't fully fleshed out yet and there just wasn't all that much given to us, so we had to figure out what to do on our own. 

    Once the shiny newness wore off though, and people started to look for more to do than exploring, talking, and killing anything that moved, it became a race to see how much copy & paste content new titles could force-feed consumers before they got bored and moved on. 

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Member UncommonPosts: 689
    Originally posted by Ende

    I thought id jump over here to check with some MMO 'experts' in response to a discussion currently underway on a Wow forum... thats a discussion about what features in MMO gaming did Wow introduce into MMO gaming?

    Im sure that the vast knowledge on these forums can shed some light on what MMOs were first to use any of the features below :)

     

    1.  LFG - Looking For Group, tech to find groups.

      I think so, but I remember City of Heroes having one too. Not sure which came first.

    2. Flex Raiding - a raid which can be made up with variable numbers of players.

      Yes

    3. Flying

      City of Heroes is where you could fly

    4. Rated Battlegrounds - not sure how this can be claimed by Wow as a first lol

      Yes, sorta.  Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds, had battlegrounds in the form of Carnage's and Bloodlust's.  They weren't rated by numbers but more by the community since that tech didn't exist.

    5. Challenge Modes - to do dungeons in a timer

      Yes

    6. Phasing - multi layered areas in the MMO world

      Not sure.

    7. Auction House

      No, EQ1 made this dumb shit exist.

    8. Crossrealm tech - basically all realms now play out in the world together.  

      Yes, I think. Rift did it early on, but I can't remember which came first.

    9. Instances

      No, EQ1 created instance with the LDoN xpac.

    10. Talent tree

      Sorta... EQ1 made alternate advancement trees which were endgame talent trees.

    11. Seamless mapping - all the zones in 1 large map without loading screens.

      Yes, Vanguard tried to do it too and failed miserably.

     

    Ok lots of these r obviously not created by Wow first but if anyone can tell us what games they remember did them first would be awesome :)

     

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by Nadia

     

    I dislike dungeon finders because it feels like mmos have become an instanced lobby game

     

    I like dungeon finders because it feels like MMOs have become instanced lobby games.

  • kakasakikakasaki Member UncommonPosts: 1,205
    Don't know if it has been mentioned but Shadowbane had flying  back in 2003...

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,092
    First of all, you've gotta to look wider than MMOs to get what Blizz did. I'll try with MMOs while putting the real culprit(s) in the brackets:

    1. No idea(this idea originally came from the battle.net pairing algorithms-WC3 era battle.net)
    2. Isn't flex Raiding new? If so, GW 2 fractals/Rifts in Rift?(Sly one Blizz! I reckon the idea came from the /players system of Diablo 2. Sheeesh so primitive!)
    3. CoX-CoH is Company of Heroes tyvm :P(no specific game)
    4. DAoC(Starcraft lol?)
    5. Guild Wars-Hard mode, Zos Shivros etc(Crash Bandicoot 3 lol?)
    6. LoTRO or Guild Wars/ddo if talking about the instances(idk what other game)
    7. No idea(???)
    8. Guild Wars(really a beautiful game!)
    9. EQ I think(Diablo)
    10. MMOs-idk(Diablo 2-just look at it! It's so copy pasted lol!)
    11. Asheron's Call? EQ? Zorg? MUDs?

    As is visible, they did not use MMO parts only. They used parts from other genres as well. That, alongside timing, made wow as successful as it is. It wasn't really visible until somewhere around Cata(when they REALLY started adding various gaming modes in). Think about it: "Was any MMO prior to wow as player centric as it is?" <-them trying to pull regular RPGers in "Was any MMO prior to wow as adaptable as it is?" <-them trying to pull "casuals" in. Etc. Although I severely dislike wow(Bah, more like Warhammer lite!), I give Credit where it is due. And they pulled it off masterfully.
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770

    Yeah.. Don't know about those but I'm pretty confidant that WoW was the first to make the whole game centered around accessibility, casual fun, and simplicity. Removing the "bad" parts. Course a lot of "good" was removed in the process.

  • NonderyonNonderyon Member UncommonPosts: 189
    Originally posted by Ende

    I thought id jump over here to check with some MMO 'experts' in response to a discussion currently underway on a Wow forum... thats a discussion about what features in MMO gaming did Wow introduce into MMO gaming?

    Im sure that the vast knowledge on these forums can shed some light on what MMOs were first to use any of the features below :)

     

    1.  LFG - Looking For Group, tech to find groups.

    2. Flex Raiding - a raid which can be made up with variable numbers of players.

    3. Flying

    4. Rated Battlegrounds - not sure how this can be claimed by Wow as a first lol

    5. Challenge Modes - to do dungeons in a timer

    6. Phasing - multi layered areas in the MMO world

    7. Auction House

    8. Crossrealm tech - basically all realms now play out in the world together.  

    9. Instances

    10. Talent tree

    11. Seamless mapping - all the zones in 1 large map without loading screens.

     

    Ok lots of these r obviously not created by Wow first but if anyone can tell us what games they remember did them first would be awesome :)

    Wow Came out in 2004, so when it came out, generaly they just took the succesful part from other mmos, what is considered good thing in my option(and all other" want to be succesful" mmo makers do that).

    Challange, Battleground, Siege, Seamless mapping, auction house, fly(with wyvern)...etc. are all in Lineage 2.

    And don't forget Ragnarok online is came out in 2002, what is a starting stone for other mmos.

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Again can anyone say if rested experience was first used in WoW? Every time I mention this no one replies to this specific one ;D

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Yeah.. Don't know about those but I'm pretty confidant that WoW was the first to make the whole game centered around accessibility, casual fun, and simplicity. Removing the "bad" parts. Course a lot of "good" was removed in the process.

    What "good" was removed? All the stuff removed (talking 15 min to get group, slow walking ...) are all "bad" for me.

     

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Again can anyone say if rested experience was first used in WoW? Every time I mention this no one replies to this specific one ;D

    Its possible. At pre-BC I don't recall any other MMORPG where you went to a tavern to log out and get rest xp. EQ2 added rest xp but I don't remember when.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Its possible. At pre-BC I don't recall any other MMORPG where you went to a tavern to log out and get rest xp.

    EQ2 added rest xp but I don't remember when.

    EQ2 always had the vitality bonus  (rest experience)

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/2/view/forums/post/366131#366131

    another EQ2 article

    http://www.mboards.eqtraders.com/eq2/showthread.php?t=3201

    Vitality was added to the game during beta, and our plan was (and still is) to add a visual UI element that shows your current Vitality status. Unfortunately the visual portion wasn't put in place during beta, and other UI tasks became a priority over it.

    While it's a rather straightforward idea, the current way it works has led to confusion and concern on the part of players who have seen their experience gain change for no apparent reason. We definitely feel it's important that you understand things that relate to your character's advancement, so we'd like to offer this overdue explanation.

     

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    Well, the thing is. Are we speaking about the first potential use of a game mechanic / technology that might have been used in a totally different way?

    Or are we speaking about that technology actually being used in the ways we expect today when you use those terms in the OP.

    Take phasing: just "invisibility" or stealth in an MMO could be considered phasing. Because that's the basic mechanic: an outsider doesn't see the invisible player, but the player himself does see his own model. Obviously WoW wasn't the first to do that.

    But if we're talking about phasing being used to change the world a player experiences throughout various quests, with whole buildings and various objects becoming visible and invisible, I couldn't really name an MMO that did that to the same extent before.

    Innovation isn't just about finding something new, it's also about finding different and new applications.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586
    World of Warcraft fast fooded the MMO industry. It's lost over half of its subscriptions but people claim it's normal and it's still going strong. Eve has maintained numbers and even gained subscriptions over the years, I guess that means they are going really really really strong.

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

     if we're talking about phasing being used to change the world a player experiences throughout various quests, with whole buildings and various objects becoming visible and invisible, I couldn't really name an MMO that did that to the same extent before.

    EQ2 had limited phasing on launch in Oct 2004

     

    there are quests, where as you progress through them, you cannot see NPCs until you do quest

    the hidden NPCs remain forever visible after the quest progress - but only to players who did the quest

     

    example: Thundering Steppes newbie quest

    http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Blumble_Blunder

    Ghost Grandma Blumble is invisible to all players until you do quest progression

    then she can be seen at Nek forest docks

     

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    I played EQ2 too, didn't know about the grandma quest though. Honestly, was it really something significant :p? Also, it sounds like a regular "invisibility" thing as I explained.

    My point was: who innovated the most? The one who invented the fundamental tech but didn't really do much with it yet. Or the ones who used the tech to change a whole lot of things significantly?

    I'm not sure myself, it depends on the situation.

    In the case of phasing though, I would most defnitely give it to WoW as I never saw anything to the extent of what was done in WotLK  in any game before. By the way, that's not entirely a positive for WoW, because phasing has a lot of problems.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • donjndonjn Member UncommonPosts: 816
    Originally posted by Briansho
    World of Warcraft fast fooded the MMO industry. It's lost over half of its subscriptions but people claim it's normal and it's still going strong. Eve has maintained numbers and even gained subscriptions over the years, I guess that means they are going really really really strong.

    I has not lost half of its subs. 7.6 million is still very strong when most MMOs can't break 1 million..lol

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