Originally posted by Horusra Love the people that say action combat takes more skill....those are the call of duty peeps coming to mmo's and they got schooled in tab targeting cause they sucked at using their skills properly.
schooled in tab targetting ??? HaHa
lol man, you think you're good or skilled or something, so i'll fill you in a little on REAL WORLD GAMING. I have extreme hand eye coordination, to the point where I am above everyone else. Most people would rather happily call me a hacker, slur insults & racism, then fess the truth up. It's okay though, i've become used to it since I was a Teen. I guess it's something i've got to put up with if I wish to enjoy gaming, & life.
FPS, RTS, MMO, Crossbreeds, i've done them all. MOBA's are essentially RTS.
Pro's of tab targeting:
*Easier for the end user. Doesn't need to really know how to WASD, or how to use the mouse. As long as the user can click or tab to it's enemy, and as long as the enemy is in range, the user can engage.
*A primitive system which is easier for developers to implement, it's also easier on server bandwidth because there are less variables
*More tolerant to higher pings & lag
*A step up from text-based MUDs
Cons of Tab targeting:
*Because it's easier for the end user, easier = lower skill cap. Anything that is easier means more people can excel at it.
*Clipping, environmental blocking doesn't matter. I can't count how many times i've seen terrain abused in tab targeting games.
*Macro abuse (whether the game supports macro creation or not doesn't matter, third party programs exist), because someone can stand, not have to position or move himself, yet still engage a target as long as it's in range, and land 100% of all spells. Which leads to....
*Bots!! Bots oh bots. They have ruined most every tab-target game. Which leads to....
*Multiboxing! Hurray!!!!
If you have the mental capacity to comprehend what i'm saying, you'll understand that tab targeting is now outdated, largely abused and done with. It's old tech. The world spins and thrives on innovation. Whether or not you like it, action orientated combat is the future.
Before you quote me and reply with some trying-to-be-smart comment, 3x Gladiator in WoW, the epitome of Tab-Target PvP. Been there, done that, next.
Originally posted by Horusra Love the people that say action combat takes more skill....those are the call of duty peeps coming to mmo's and they got schooled in tab targeting cause they sucked at using their skills properly.
schooled in tab targetting ??? HaHa
lol man, you think you're good or skilled or something, so i'll fill you in a little on REAL WORLD GAMING. I have extreme hand eye coordination, to the point where I am above everyone else. Most people would rather happily call me a hacker, slur insults & racism, then fess the truth up. It's okay though, i've become used to it since I was a Teen. I guess it's something i've got to put up with if I wish to enjoy gaming, & life.
FPS, RTS, MMO, Crossbreeds, i've done them all. MOBA's are essentially RTS.
Pro's of tab targeting:
*Easier for the end user. Doesn't need to really know how to WASD, or how to use the mouse. As long as the user can click or tab to it's enemy, and as long as the enemy is in range, the user can engage.
*A primitive system which is easier for developers to implement, it's also easier on server bandwidth because there are less variables
*More tolerant to higher pings & lag
*A step up from text-based MUDs
Cons of Tab targeting:
*Because it's easier for the end user, easier = lower skill cap. Anything that is easier means more people can excel at it.
*Clipping, environmental blocking doesn't matter. I can't count how many times i've seen terrain abused in tab targeting games.
*Macro abuse (whether the game supports macro creation or not doesn't matter, third party programs exist), because someone can stand, not have to position or move himself, yet still engage a target as long as it's in range, and land 100% of all spells. Which leads to....
*Bots!! Bots oh bots. They have ruined most every tab-target game. Which leads to....
*Multiboxing! Hurray!!!!
If you have the mental capacity to comprehend what i'm saying, you'll understand that tab targeting is now outdated, largely abused and done with. It's old tech. The world spins and thrives on innovation. Whether or not you like it, action orientated combat is the future.
Before you quote me and reply with some trying-to-be-smart comment, 3x Gladiator in WoW, the epitome of Tab-Target PvP. Been there, done that, next.
Good day, smile:) !
Better to let people toot your horn over you doing it repeatedly as the notes just sound off. Dont agree with you at all. Just one one part alone is that smart players know how to use terrain. This is closer to real life combat IMO. I personally think a combo of tab and MOAB style for targeting will be the future. The soft targeting system. In the end everyone will go back to tab targeting as action pack MOAB style combat will just lead to carpal tunnel and your high hand eye coordination will end up as sloppy as anyone. Good day to you as well =-)
After watching quite a few videos of PvP in Archeage I will say they have an interesting way of implementing it and its only in Alpha and it looks quite good this early in their testing phases.
Everquest Next will most likely have various world server rulesets; Open PvP, Faction PvP, PvE, etc...
Everquest Next is surely going to cater to the younger generation (pre teens/teenagers) with their graphics and action oriented anime combat style, so forgive me if I don't opt for a pure PvE ruleset server...gl wit dat
Seems so odd that this game is so far out that people really have no idea when it is going to be released, let alone even when alpha phase testing starts....SOE must be concerned about Blizzard and their close door project that doesn't even have a confirmed name.
Open world PvP isn't the end of an MMORPG as many a fanboi of Everquest Next seem to think.
The only things wrong with Open world PvP:
No safe areas
Higher levels ganking lower levels
Corpse/Bindpoint Camping
Zergs
PvP that eclipses all other aspects of gameplay
Class/template imbalances to such a degree there are only a few optimal choices
Full item/coin looting
Highly doubt SOE will allow any of these to ruin an Open PvP world server without addressing concerns during the testing phases before the game goes live
Read it and weep. I've been a broken record on this, but the writing on the wall says there's going to be open world PVP in a brilliantly executed system like Eve Online.
Smedley's blog post covers a lot, but here are some of the highlights:
"A lot has been made about how much we’re pushing this concept of “Sandbox” mmos being the future. Not a lot has been said about what that means."
"In my opinion the solution is focusing a lot more on letting players make and be content for each other. Battlegrounds are an excellent example of an Evergreen style of content where it’s the players themselves that actually create the content. ... Building systems into the games that let the players interact with each other in new and unique ways gives us the ability to watch as the players do stuff we never anticipated. We’ll see a lot more creativity in action if the players are at the center of it. Imagine an MMORPG of a massive city.. and the Rogue’s guild is entirely run by players. Where the city has an entire political system that is populated by players who were elected by the playerbase."
"There’s a great example of this today with Eve Online. It’s a brilliantly executed system where the players are pretty much in charge of the entire game. Sure there is a lot of content for players to do, but anything that’s important in the game is done by the players. This is a shining example of how this kind of system can thrive.
Our belief at SOE is that it’s smarter to head in this direction now rather than waiting."
Is anyone from the other side of the fence ready to admit this is happening?
Edit: Sorry, that was bad form. Here is the blog post:
Don't be so easily impressed by someone just lifting the coding to make everyone outside of your guild killable. We've had games like this for ages, and pretty much every korean grind fest runs this way. Typical handful of classes, copy paste races and builds, all battling it out in some cornfield. Yipee.
What ever happened to being able to fight someone in a fantasy mmorpg that isn't my same race and class? lackluster imagination = today's genre.
The sandbox part is excellent, however, but how many of you played Shadowbane? Remember how they did this years ago? RIP game by the way.
Beta tested Shadowbane and told Wolfpack that they needed some serious help with their current build and that they were nowhere near release with all the issues the plagued the game.
They had some great ideas and a loyal following yet it bombed because their engine sucked and they needed better programmers and developers and at least another year of development
The sandbox part is excellent, however, but how many of you played Shadowbane? Remember how they did this years ago? RIP game by the way.
I was in a pre-release Shadowbane guild while playing EQ. DAoC came out, jumped in. Tried Shadowbane beta and ran back to DAoC as fast as I could. I wanted to play a Shade dang it!
Why do PvPers have a problem with there being separate servers for open PvP and consensual PvP? Do they really just like to gank people who don't want to fight until they quit?
Because it means that PVP server will be nothing more than PVE one, with flagging enabled. We want an real PVP system, which is only achievable if the whole game is designed around it.
For example, most korean MMOs dont have PVE-only servers, but PVP there isnt hardcore either.
Its better for the game and the community if they focus on one server type.
Possible they could have a heavy PVP focus as far as game play and what not and then have PVE servers. Other "PVP" games have done this. For some reason, there are people out there that want to enjoy a game, regardless of the main focus in a different way. H1Z1 for example, already many hoping for a PVE server (which will probably happen) in a genre that is known for "hardcore" KOS PVP.
While I wouldn't call it easy to implement a system that caters to both equally, is doable. I can easily see a game that has PVPers battling over land-resources-power and PVE folks sitting back in town, crafting, building, using the resources PVP people bring back to be turned into items and what not. EVE is similar to this I guess, but different in many ways as well.
Personally, I think the Opt-In/Consensual is the best way to go. Games like SWG did fairly well with this system, heck even EQ did okay. Cater to both at the same time. Only ones that are upset are the small groups on either end of the spectrum that can't handle knowing that others are playing a different way in the same game.
Don't want to PVP? Don't. Want to? Great, go find others that share the same passion. I think an issue is people unable to get around the idea that "real" PVP means something. OW FFA PVP is "real" PVP in my eyes, but a ruleless game can not work. OW FFA PVP with a bunch of rules to make it work is defeating the purpose I think many have.
I'd rather go the "real world" approach. We have soldiers, farmers, tradesmen, politicians, artists, etc. Each doing their part. At anytime, an artist could become a soldier and other way around, but usually we stick to what we like to do. If soldiers could just run around killing anyone at anytime, we'd have total chaos (lots of real world examples of this). To have some sense of society, there has to be rules and accepted/unacceptable behaviors. PVP falls under this. Soldiers get the thumbs up to kill one another, but civilians are usually off limits.
A game could do this. Will EQN? Who knows. But the all or nothing approach be it PVE or PVP is missing a lot of entertainment value.
After watching quite a few videos of PvP in Archeage I will say they have an interesting way of implementing it and its only in Alpha and it looks quite good this early in their testing phases.
Maybe link some of that up? I've tried to watch videos and streams and it looks like a hot mess. I think they tried to force way too many things into one game that it loses focus. PVP looks like a mess as well. Glad to see companies trying to be different though.
Everquest Next will most likely have various world server rulesets; Open PvP, Faction PvP, PvE, etc...
Yep
Everquest Next is surely going to cater to the younger generation (pre teens/teenagers) with their graphics and action oriented anime combat style, so forgive me if I don't opt for a pure PvE ruleset server...gl wit dat
From EQ to EQOA to EQ2, they've never gone the adult route, never quite understand why people think EQ is for mature audiences only. I'm in my 30s and think it looks great, then again I like Disney/Pixar and many other high quality works of animation. I don't need everything to be brown (ESO) or bloody (AOC) to enjoy.
Action combat is almost in every new game (GW2, Tera, Wildstar, ESO) people seem to like it, regardless of age. I do agree that EQN will cater to younger players, very wise move. When I'm in my 40s-50s who knows if I'll still have time to play. Last time I checked, a good chunk of us started playing in our teens. Doesn't mean I haven't played side by side with much older individuals.
Reading the novellas, they are not exactly pre-teen material. Assuming some of this will translate into the game.
Seems so odd that this game is so far out that people really have no idea when it is going to be released, let alone even when alpha phase testing starts....SOE must be concerned about Blizzard and their close door project that doesn't even have a confirmed name.
Or they wanted played to get involved at a very early stage. Which is doubtful Blizzard will do. Giving a "finished" product to the masses. Which I'm sure will be great, but two different approaches. Not sure how SOE could be scared of something that doesn't have any details. Not like WoW doesn't already dominate the market.
Open world PvP isn't the end of an MMORPG as many a fanboi of Everquest Next seem to think.
The only things wrong with Open world PvP:
No safe areas
Higher levels ganking lower levels
Corpse/Bindpoint Camping
Zergs
PvP that eclipses all other aspects of gameplay
Class/template imbalances to such a degree there are only a few optimal choices
Full item/coin looting
So basically everything that a PVE fan or even PVP fan that wants quality PVP dislikes? Leaving only the KOS - win at all costs - mindless killing. No thanks.
Highly doubt SOE will allow any of these to ruin an Open PvP world server without addressing concerns during the testing phases before the game goes live
Relax!
Isn't an easy way to avoid most of that list without putting heavy restrictions in rules in place, taking away a good chunk of that "Open" element. Which is why it won't work on a large scale, especially not in EQN, at least from what has been revealed. Opt-In on the other hand can somewhat balance most of these issues and make the majority of gamers (SOE goal) happy.
The game uses free-PvP system. That means you can kill anybody at any location (except starting villages and special zones).
There are two main factions in the game: Western (Nuian) and Eastern (Hariharan). These factions are in war, so you can kill any player from other faction without penalties.
But if you kill or hit your ally blood stain appears on the ground. Such stains contain 6 or 10 karma points. These stains can be gathered by other players and if they activate the gathered stains a killer will get karma. After a killer gets 100 karma points he will have to spend 30 minutes of real time in prison. The most interesting is that he will have to move to court himself on his own feet. But he can ignore the warning and he will become a criminal. Other players can kill criminals without penalties.
After a player gets 3000 karma points he will be included into Pirates’ Faction. It is a special faction with pirates only. Each pirate is enemy to other normal players. Pirate’s island is a place where they live, trade, build houses and sell loot. They can create guilds and attack castles. After a pirate dies he will be moved to Pirates’ Prison. It is a free-PvP area.
Sea combats
As you know the game allows building a ship and traveling across the sea. But it is not the entire information. You can fight against other ships while you are in the sea. Moreover, mass sea battles are also available. Your fleet can attack enemies and grapple with the ships.
When your ship is attacked by enemy it receives damage. Destroyed ship moves to your inventory waiting for repair. It can be repaired by special NPC after payment.
Sieges
There will be special mass PvP battles with 100 players on every side. The goal of a battle is to take control over castle. There are several castles in the game, but players can build their own castles.
When a siege starts siege machines and fleet attack can be used. There are several types of siege machines in the game.
The sandbox part is excellent, however, but how many of you played Shadowbane? Remember how they did this years ago? RIP game by the way.
I was in a pre-release Shadowbane guild while playing EQ. DAoC came out, jumped in. Tried Shadowbane beta and ran back to DAoC as fast as I could. I wanted to play a Shade dang it!
Remember the Rollin'30s guild in Shadowbane Beta? It was run by Bone Dancer and Angus from a PvP guild called Sinister (http://www.afraidyet.net/history/ LOL they left out their history in DAoC cuz they got ownt and left the game outta of shame and disgust) that mainly participates in PvP in any MMORPG they decide to play on. They are currently in Darkfall. Never really cared for Angus cuz he was mad at me for going up against them in DAoC (I was the first player in the game to realm rank 7 on the Merlin Server with my Albion Scout named Ninpo); Bone Dancer wasn't a very likeable character either and he also held some angst against me as well but at least he was motivated and recognized PvP talent and we had fun times in Shadowbane Beta.
Ended up quitting Shadowbane Beta after I won the leveling contest with my overpowered Werewolf/Archer/Bounty Hunter Bard template that could literally wipe out entire groups as I ended up being the most overpowered character in the entire game (I would spam this unreal AOE that was OP and I could track anything and my archer skills and hit points (werewolf form) were insane and I had the most powerful archer NPC charmed that did insane damage as well....uber carnage LOL) which didn't please Wolfpack, to say the least LOL. Well they refused to send me my free Shadowbane T Shirt for winning the leveling contest so I told em their product was doomed to fail and jumped ship!
As I stated, I participated in Dark Age of Camelot from beta to release on the Merlin server and ended up ebaying my character once Midgard sweeped all the relics and keeps in the realm war (the guild on Midgard was insane in the membrane with their off hour sieges and how overpowered Midgard was to begin with and these guys powergamed worse then I did at the time which was nutz and they were so freaking good at everything they did and their organization, teamwork and motivating their realm skills were over the top and they would exploit everything imaginable (they ended up getting banned enmasse as a guild in World of Warcraft shortly after release for exploiting Molton Core (Well it turns out their guild was a powerguild in Everquest much like of Fires of Heaven(couple guys from this guild design (ed) most of the raid content in WoW, go figure))). Wish I could remember their name. They were hands down the best guild I have ever seen in action in any game as far as nothing stands in between them and their goal (even if they gotta exploit).
Needless to say I have participated in my fair share of PvP and gained some notoriety in what I would term the good ol days of PvP in MMORPGs (Vanilla Wow and anything before that). Simply said, I do not find PvE even remotely challenging anymore as it has not only been made much easier to cater to casual players, the AI is way to predictable and exploitable. Nothing is more challenging then player vs player.
That is, until they make the right changes to PvE; I am going to make a thread for this later today when I get back from going for a nice walk out in nature. Really helps to balance exposure to technology; with exposure to nature
Originally posted by Kuanshu Archeage PvP<p id="fb-root" fb_reset"=""> The game uses free-PvP system. That means you can kill anybody at any location (except starting villages and special zones). There are two main factions in the game: Western (Nuian) and Eastern (Hariharan). These factions are in war, so you can kill any player from other faction without penalties.But if you kill or hit your ally blood stain appears on the ground. Such stains contain 6 or 10 karma points. These stains can be gathered by other players and if they activate the gathered stains a killer will get karma. After a killer gets 100 karma points he will have to spend 30 minutes of real time in prison. The most interesting is that he will have to move to court himself on his own feet. But he can ignore the warning and he will become a criminal. Other players can kill criminals without penalties.After a player gets 3000 karma points he will be included into Pirates Faction. It is a special faction with pirates only. Each pirate is enemy to other normal players. Pirates island is a place where they live, trade, build houses and sell loot. They can create guilds and attack castles. After a pirate dies he will be moved to Pirates Prison. It is a free-PvP area. Sea combatsAs you know the game allows building a ship and traveling across the sea. But it is not the entire information. You can fight against other ships while you are in the sea. Moreover, mass sea battles are also available. Your fleet can attack enemies and grapple with the ships.When your ship is attacked by enemy it receives damage. Destroyed ship moves to your inventory waiting for repair. It can be repaired by special NPC after payment. SiegesThere will be special mass PvP battles with 100 players on every side. The goal of a battle is to take control over castle. There are several castles in the game, but players can build their own castles.When a siege starts siege machines and fleet attack can be used. There are several types of siege machines in the game.
This all would be nice and dandy, if it wasn't for the farming-bots and cash-shop.
When ArcheAge was first announced I followed ot closely, as it had all this great PvP-stuff, pirate factions etc going on, but they lost me on the way with all the other crap.
Originally posted by Kuanshu Archeage PvP<p id="fb-root" fb_reset"=""> The game uses free-PvP system. That means you can kill anybody at any location (except starting villages and special zones). There are two main factions in the game: Western (Nuian) and Eastern (Hariharan). These factions are in war, so you can kill any player from other faction without penalties.
But if you kill or hit your ally blood stain appears on the ground. Such stains contain 6 or 10 karma points. These stains can be gathered by other players and if they activate the gathered stains a killer will get karma. After a killer gets 100 karma points he will have to spend 30 minutes of real time in prison. The most interesting is that he will have to move to court himself on his own feet. But he can ignore the warning and he will become a criminal. Other players can kill criminals without penalties.
After a player gets 3000 karma points he will be included into Pirates’ Faction. It is a special faction with pirates only. Each pirate is enemy to other normal players. Pirate’s island is a place where they live, trade, build houses and sell loot. They can create guilds and attack castles. After a pirate dies he will be moved to Pirates’ Prison. It is a free-PvP area. Sea combatsAs you know the game allows building a ship and traveling across the sea. But it is not the entire information. You can fight against other ships while you are in the sea. Moreover, mass sea battles are also available. Your fleet can attack enemies and grapple with the ships.
When your ship is attacked by enemy it receives damage. Destroyed ship moves to your inventory waiting for repair. It can be repaired by special NPC after payment. SiegesThere will be special mass PvP battles with 100 players on every side. The goal of a battle is to take control over castle. There are several castles in the game, but players can build their own castles.
When a siege starts siege machines and fleet attack can be used. There are several types of siege machines in the game.
This all would be nice and dandy, if it wasn't for the farming-bots and cash-shop.
When ArcheAge was first announced I followed ot closely, as it had all this great PvP-stuff, pirate factions etc going on, but they lost me on the way with all the other crap.
Well in an Open PvP game farming bots aren't such a nuiscanse as they can easily be dispatched; Your arguement could be well they will just respawn and continue and that they are everywhere. For some reason I do not see this as an issue in Archeage as they will be pretty much a non issue due to the fact Archeage has a cash shop. Asian game designers are alot smarter when it comes to how they handle this kind of stuff because they are so familiar with it and its so rampant in the asian market they just deal with it as they deal with the black market....they just realize its all a part of the industry and everyones happy
Originally posted by Arglebargle I think it'd be a bad idea for them to embrace this full on. No one has solved the sociopathic pvper problem yet. My gaming group wouldn't touch it. The most adament anti-pvp voices there are from the players who worked as GM/CS on online MMOs. They've had their fill of dealing with that small percentage of disturbed personalities who flock to such games, and try desperatly to ruin it for everyone they meet.
I have a hard time believing every EVE player is a sociopath.
The problem your describing is common in PvE games with world PvP shoehorned in. For a well designed sandbox game, this isn't so much of a problem, and I'd argue the sociopaths would probably be unsuccessful in such a game.
SOE could not come up with anything as successful or innovative, at its founding, as EvE. Not on its very best day. This company has put out nothing but crap for 8+ years.
They lack the talent, the quality management, the vision, and respect for their customers that CCP has. And now they are console heads, to boot, because they have to be.
SOE could only wish for a product as profitable as EvE, and they are not going to get it.
SOE could not come up with anything as successful or innovative, at its founding, as EvE. Not on its very best day. This company has put out nothing but crap for 8+ years.
They lack the talent, the quality management, the vision, and respect for their customers that CCP has. And now they are console heads, to boot, because they have to be.
SOE could only wish for a product as profitable as EvE, and they are not going to get it.
No, just no.
Could you possibly elaborate?
Instead of being so cynical and critical of SOE (most likely based on your personal experiences, slanted observations, and long held opinions); why don't you be more constructive as this is one of the biggest companies in the industry and it would prove more beneficial to help them, help us make a good product for everyone to enjoy.
Oh btw Console Gaming where alot of gaming is taking place these days so don't knock it! The Next Generation Consoles were released this last Holiday Season so instead of being a hater, why not just realize we are all in this together and its not just about me, myself, and I anymore....Savvy?
EvE is what it is...it has a cult like following and its a niche game that has achieved some notable success. I for one am happy for everything it has accomplished. Each and every MMO success is shared by the MMO market as a whole as it continues to progress and evolve.
Maybe the thread title needs to be changed as its mainly about Open world PvP (EvE was mentioned as it is one of Smedley's favorite games and he has mentioned it during presentations of EQN)
Eve suffered from a few fundamental design flaws. It could have been so much more if they addressed them now that technology has rendered the reason they were put in obsolete. I know Eve purists will all disagree. So stay in your game please. I don't want you in any of mine.
#3 Having a safe area that isn't really safe. I am all for reduced layers or security but you need somewhat safe area to start out.
#2 Tolerating behavior that no other game tolerates. Rampant Scamming and cheating of other players. Not just the clever worded trade. People make a business out of misleading Auctions and all kinds of just dishonest activity.
#1 OMG #1 The gate system! Its such a crappy mechanic that most fights are centered around a cat and mouse game near a Gate. Its retarded. I could go on and on about why but its a old instance design that is no longer needed.
Eve suffered from a few fundamental design flaws. It could have been so much more if they addressed them now that technology has rendered the reason they were put in obsolete. I know Eve purists will all disagree. So stay in your game please. I don't want you in any of mine.
#3 Having a safe area that isn't really safe. I am all for reduced layers or security but you need somewhat safe area to start out.
#2 Tolerating behavior that no other game tolerates. Rampant Scamming and cheating of other players. Not just the clever worded trade. People make a business out of misleading Auctions and all kinds of just dishonest activity.
#1 OMG #1 The gate system! Its such a crappy mechanic that most fights are centered around a cat and mouse game near a Gate. Its retarded. I could go on and on about why but its a old instance design that is no longer needed.
Sounds like so much fun. Some of us live for this shit! Dealt with alot worse back in the good ol days of MMORPGs!
Its high time we give the players a game full of much mayhem so they can sort it out for themselves! Long live Anarchy!
Ok so I am officially admitting I was wrong about the PVP. Sadly. The fact that there will be a PVE server option on their zombie survival MMO tells me they are going for " something for everyone". My only hope is that the PVP options are designed well.
Originally posted by Bidwood Ok so I am officially admitting I was wrong about the PVP. Sadly. The fact that there will be a PVE server option on their zombie survival MMO tells me they are going for " something for everyone". My only hope is that the PVP options are designed well.
I hope their PVP servers have zombies which are dangerous so the difference between PVE and PVP is that you can shoot the bastard that tries to pull a swarm on top of you instead of him just gloating at you in chat.
Originally posted by Bidwood Ok so I am officially admitting I was wrong about the PVP. Sadly. The fact that there will be a PVE server option on their zombie survival MMO tells me they are going for " something for everyone". My only hope is that the PVP options are designed well.
Here is where you can take hope. They have said there will be PvP. They have said voxels will take part in the PvP. Whats the point of having destructible voxels if you dont have something worth breaking and if its worth breaking it will have to be worth defending as well. How that plays out we will have to wait and see.
Originally posted by Bidwood Ok so I am officially admitting I was wrong about the PVP. Sadly. The fact that there will be a PVE server option on their zombie survival MMO tells me they are going for " something for everyone". My only hope is that the PVP options are designed well.
Here is where you can take hope. They have said there will be PvP. They have said voxels will take part in the PvP. Whats the point of having destructible voxels if you dont have something worth breaking and if its worth breaking it will have to be worth defending as well. How that plays out we will have to wait and see.
Comments
schooled in tab targetting ??? HaHa
lol man, you think you're good or skilled or something, so i'll fill you in a little on REAL WORLD GAMING. I have extreme hand eye coordination, to the point where I am above everyone else. Most people would rather happily call me a hacker, slur insults & racism, then fess the truth up. It's okay though, i've become used to it since I was a Teen. I guess it's something i've got to put up with if I wish to enjoy gaming, & life.
FPS, RTS, MMO, Crossbreeds, i've done them all. MOBA's are essentially RTS.
Pro's of tab targeting:
*Easier for the end user. Doesn't need to really know how to WASD, or how to use the mouse. As long as the user can click or tab to it's enemy, and as long as the enemy is in range, the user can engage.
*A primitive system which is easier for developers to implement, it's also easier on server bandwidth because there are less variables
*More tolerant to higher pings & lag
*A step up from text-based MUDs
Cons of Tab targeting:
*Because it's easier for the end user, easier = lower skill cap. Anything that is easier means more people can excel at it.
*Clipping, environmental blocking doesn't matter. I can't count how many times i've seen terrain abused in tab targeting games.
*Macro abuse (whether the game supports macro creation or not doesn't matter, third party programs exist), because someone can stand, not have to position or move himself, yet still engage a target as long as it's in range, and land 100% of all spells. Which leads to....
*Bots!! Bots oh bots. They have ruined most every tab-target game. Which leads to....
*Multiboxing! Hurray!!!!
If you have the mental capacity to comprehend what i'm saying, you'll understand that tab targeting is now outdated, largely abused and done with. It's old tech. The world spins and thrives on innovation. Whether or not you like it, action orientated combat is the future.
Before you quote me and reply with some trying-to-be-smart comment, 3x Gladiator in WoW, the epitome of Tab-Target PvP. Been there, done that, next.
Good day, smile:) !
Better to let people toot your horn over you doing it repeatedly as the notes just sound off. Dont agree with you at all. Just one one part alone is that smart players know how to use terrain. This is closer to real life combat IMO. I personally think a combo of tab and MOAB style for targeting will be the future. The soft targeting system. In the end everyone will go back to tab targeting as action pack MOAB style combat will just lead to carpal tunnel and your high hand eye coordination will end up as sloppy as anyone. Good day to you as well =-)
After watching quite a few videos of PvP in Archeage I will say they have an interesting way of implementing it and its only in Alpha and it looks quite good this early in their testing phases.
Everquest Next will most likely have various world server rulesets; Open PvP, Faction PvP, PvE, etc...
Everquest Next is surely going to cater to the younger generation (pre teens/teenagers) with their graphics and action oriented anime combat style, so forgive me if I don't opt for a pure PvE ruleset server...gl wit dat
Seems so odd that this game is so far out that people really have no idea when it is going to be released, let alone even when alpha phase testing starts....SOE must be concerned about Blizzard and their close door project that doesn't even have a confirmed name.
Open world PvP isn't the end of an MMORPG as many a fanboi of Everquest Next seem to think.
The only things wrong with Open world PvP:
No safe areas
Higher levels ganking lower levels
Corpse/Bindpoint Camping
Zergs
PvP that eclipses all other aspects of gameplay
Class/template imbalances to such a degree there are only a few optimal choices
Full item/coin looting
Highly doubt SOE will allow any of these to ruin an Open PvP world server without addressing concerns during the testing phases before the game goes live
Relax!
Don't be so easily impressed by someone just lifting the coding to make everyone outside of your guild killable. We've had games like this for ages, and pretty much every korean grind fest runs this way. Typical handful of classes, copy paste races and builds, all battling it out in some cornfield. Yipee.
What ever happened to being able to fight someone in a fantasy mmorpg that isn't my same race and class? lackluster imagination = today's genre.
The sandbox part is excellent, however, but how many of you played Shadowbane? Remember how they did this years ago? RIP game by the way.
Beta tested Shadowbane and told Wolfpack that they needed some serious help with their current build and that they were nowhere near release with all the issues the plagued the game.
They had some great ideas and a loyal following yet it bombed because their engine sucked and they needed better programmers and developers and at least another year of development
I was in a pre-release Shadowbane guild while playing EQ. DAoC came out, jumped in. Tried Shadowbane beta and ran back to DAoC as fast as I could. I wanted to play a Shade dang it!
Possible they could have a heavy PVP focus as far as game play and what not and then have PVE servers. Other "PVP" games have done this. For some reason, there are people out there that want to enjoy a game, regardless of the main focus in a different way. H1Z1 for example, already many hoping for a PVE server (which will probably happen) in a genre that is known for "hardcore" KOS PVP.
While I wouldn't call it easy to implement a system that caters to both equally, is doable. I can easily see a game that has PVPers battling over land-resources-power and PVE folks sitting back in town, crafting, building, using the resources PVP people bring back to be turned into items and what not. EVE is similar to this I guess, but different in many ways as well.
Personally, I think the Opt-In/Consensual is the best way to go. Games like SWG did fairly well with this system, heck even EQ did okay. Cater to both at the same time. Only ones that are upset are the small groups on either end of the spectrum that can't handle knowing that others are playing a different way in the same game.
Don't want to PVP? Don't. Want to? Great, go find others that share the same passion. I think an issue is people unable to get around the idea that "real" PVP means something. OW FFA PVP is "real" PVP in my eyes, but a ruleless game can not work. OW FFA PVP with a bunch of rules to make it work is defeating the purpose I think many have.
I'd rather go the "real world" approach. We have soldiers, farmers, tradesmen, politicians, artists, etc. Each doing their part. At anytime, an artist could become a soldier and other way around, but usually we stick to what we like to do. If soldiers could just run around killing anyone at anytime, we'd have total chaos (lots of real world examples of this). To have some sense of society, there has to be rules and accepted/unacceptable behaviors. PVP falls under this. Soldiers get the thumbs up to kill one another, but civilians are usually off limits.
A game could do this. Will EQN? Who knows. But the all or nothing approach be it PVE or PVP is missing a lot of entertainment value.
Archeage PvP
<p id="fb-root" fb_reset"="">The game uses free-PvP system. That means you can kill anybody at any location (except starting villages and special zones).
There are two main factions in the game: Western (Nuian) and Eastern (Hariharan). These factions are in war, so you can kill any player from other faction without penalties.
But if you kill or hit your ally blood stain appears on the ground. Such stains contain 6 or 10 karma points. These stains can be gathered by other players and if they activate the gathered stains a killer will get karma. After a killer gets 100 karma points he will have to spend 30 minutes of real time in prison. The most interesting is that he will have to move to court himself on his own feet. But he can ignore the warning and he will become a criminal. Other players can kill criminals without penalties.
After a player gets 3000 karma points he will be included into Pirates’ Faction. It is a special faction with pirates only. Each pirate is enemy to other normal players. Pirate’s island is a place where they live, trade, build houses and sell loot. They can create guilds and attack castles. After a pirate dies he will be moved to Pirates’ Prison. It is a free-PvP area.
Sea combats
As you know the game allows building a ship and traveling across the sea. But it is not the entire information. You can fight against other ships while you are in the sea. Moreover, mass sea battles are also available. Your fleet can attack enemies and grapple with the ships.
When your ship is attacked by enemy it receives damage. Destroyed ship moves to your inventory waiting for repair. It can be repaired by special NPC after payment.
Sieges
There will be special mass PvP battles with 100 players on every side. The goal of a battle is to take control over castle. There are several castles in the game, but players can build their own castles.
When a siege starts siege machines and fleet attack can be used. There are several types of siege machines in the game.
Remember the Rollin'30s guild in Shadowbane Beta? It was run by Bone Dancer and Angus from a PvP guild called Sinister (http://www.afraidyet.net/history/ LOL they left out their history in DAoC cuz they got ownt and left the game outta of shame and disgust) that mainly participates in PvP in any MMORPG they decide to play on. They are currently in Darkfall. Never really cared for Angus cuz he was mad at me for going up against them in DAoC (I was the first player in the game to realm rank 7 on the Merlin Server with my Albion Scout named Ninpo); Bone Dancer wasn't a very likeable character either and he also held some angst against me as well but at least he was motivated and recognized PvP talent and we had fun times in Shadowbane Beta.
Ended up quitting Shadowbane Beta after I won the leveling contest with my overpowered Werewolf/Archer/Bounty Hunter Bard template that could literally wipe out entire groups as I ended up being the most overpowered character in the entire game (I would spam this unreal AOE that was OP and I could track anything and my archer skills and hit points (werewolf form) were insane and I had the most powerful archer NPC charmed that did insane damage as well....uber carnage LOL) which didn't please Wolfpack, to say the least LOL. Well they refused to send me my free Shadowbane T Shirt for winning the leveling contest so I told em their product was doomed to fail and jumped ship!
As I stated, I participated in Dark Age of Camelot from beta to release on the Merlin server and ended up ebaying my character once Midgard sweeped all the relics and keeps in the realm war (the guild on Midgard was insane in the membrane with their off hour sieges and how overpowered Midgard was to begin with and these guys powergamed worse then I did at the time which was nutz and they were so freaking good at everything they did and their organization, teamwork and motivating their realm skills were over the top and they would exploit everything imaginable (they ended up getting banned enmasse as a guild in World of Warcraft shortly after release for exploiting Molton Core (Well it turns out their guild was a powerguild in Everquest much like of Fires of Heaven(couple guys from this guild design (ed) most of the raid content in WoW, go figure))). Wish I could remember their name. They were hands down the best guild I have ever seen in action in any game as far as nothing stands in between them and their goal (even if they gotta exploit).
Needless to say I have participated in my fair share of PvP and gained some notoriety in what I would term the good ol days of PvP in MMORPGs (Vanilla Wow and anything before that). Simply said, I do not find PvE even remotely challenging anymore as it has not only been made much easier to cater to casual players, the AI is way to predictable and exploitable. Nothing is more challenging then player vs player.
That is, until they make the right changes to PvE; I am going to make a thread for this later today when I get back from going for a nice walk out in nature. Really helps to balance exposure to technology; with exposure to nature
This all would be nice and dandy, if it wasn't for the farming-bots and cash-shop.
When ArcheAge was first announced I followed ot closely, as it had all this great PvP-stuff, pirate factions etc going on, but they lost me on the way with all the other crap.
Well in an Open PvP game farming bots aren't such a nuiscanse as they can easily be dispatched; Your arguement could be well they will just respawn and continue and that they are everywhere. For some reason I do not see this as an issue in Archeage as they will be pretty much a non issue due to the fact Archeage has a cash shop. Asian game designers are alot smarter when it comes to how they handle this kind of stuff because they are so familiar with it and its so rampant in the asian market they just deal with it as they deal with the black market....they just realize its all a part of the industry and everyones happy
I have a hard time believing every EVE player is a sociopath.
The problem your describing is common in PvE games with world PvP shoehorned in. For a well designed sandbox game, this isn't so much of a problem, and I'd argue the sociopaths would probably be unsuccessful in such a game.
SOE could not come up with anything as successful or innovative, at its founding, as EvE. Not on its very best day. This company has put out nothing but crap for 8+ years.
They lack the talent, the quality management, the vision, and respect for their customers that CCP has. And now they are console heads, to boot, because they have to be.
SOE could only wish for a product as profitable as EvE, and they are not going to get it.
No, just no.
Could you possibly elaborate?
Instead of being so cynical and critical of SOE (most likely based on your personal experiences, slanted observations, and long held opinions); why don't you be more constructive as this is one of the biggest companies in the industry and it would prove more beneficial to help them, help us make a good product for everyone to enjoy.
Oh btw Console Gaming where alot of gaming is taking place these days so don't knock it! The Next Generation Consoles were released this last Holiday Season so instead of being a hater, why not just realize we are all in this together and its not just about me, myself, and I anymore....Savvy?
EvE is what it is...it has a cult like following and its a niche game that has achieved some notable success. I for one am happy for everything it has accomplished. Each and every MMO success is shared by the MMO market as a whole as it continues to progress and evolve.
Maybe the thread title needs to be changed as its mainly about Open world PvP (EvE was mentioned as it is one of Smedley's favorite games and he has mentioned it during presentations of EQN)
Eve suffered from a few fundamental design flaws. It could have been so much more if they addressed them now that technology has rendered the reason they were put in obsolete. I know Eve purists will all disagree. So stay in your game please. I don't want you in any of mine.
#3 Having a safe area that isn't really safe. I am all for reduced layers or security but you need somewhat safe area to start out.
#2 Tolerating behavior that no other game tolerates. Rampant Scamming and cheating of other players. Not just the clever worded trade. People make a business out of misleading Auctions and all kinds of just dishonest activity.
#1 OMG #1 The gate system! Its such a crappy mechanic that most fights are centered around a cat and mouse game near a Gate. Its retarded. I could go on and on about why but its a old instance design that is no longer needed.
Sounds like so much fun. Some of us live for this shit! Dealt with alot worse back in the good ol days of MMORPGs!
Its high time we give the players a game full of much mayhem so they can sort it out for themselves! Long live Anarchy!
I hope their PVP servers have zombies which are dangerous so the difference between PVE and PVP is that you can shoot the bastard that tries to pull a swarm on top of you instead of him just gloating at you in chat.
Here is where you can take hope. They have said there will be PvP. They have said voxels will take part in the PvP. Whats the point of having destructible voxels if you dont have something worth breaking and if its worth breaking it will have to be worth defending as well. How that plays out we will have to wait and see.
Here's hoping!!!