Consumers believe that because its not made, no one wants it.
They can't seem to fathom the idea that its not made because of the risk that people may not want it.
If blizzard never made WoW the mmo genre may have never become mainstream today. Developers may have never been willing to risk investing in a genre that had yet to be proven.
And people today would be saying that no one wants to play an MMO, and they evidence for them would be that no one makes them.
exactly.
people have bought into the idea that the consumer has 100% control of the economy and they don't.
I'd flip this around and ask what games aren't being made? There are games covering just about everything today, you can play as a goat, you can build trains, you can build farms and operate the machinery, you can drive a truck across a country, you can go fishing, you can go hunting, you can build cities, you can build in space, you can kill things, you can raise things etc. etc. etc...so on and so forth.
the game industry has radically changed in just the past few years because indies have more exposure and what they are creating is what the AAA games are NOT creating.
That said I am still waiting for a construction focused MMO. I don't know of one..well Wurm and its awesome
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If blizzard never made WoW the mmo genre may have never become mainstream today. Developers may have never been willing to risk investing in a genre that had yet to be proven.
And people today would be saying that no one wants to play an MMO, and they evidence for them would be that no one makes them.
mmo were still being popped out preWOW (but not w WOW success)
Boston Globe article from Feb 2004 -- before WOW
Flood of games, too few players cause change in online realm
Originally posted by SEANMCAD1. they do not build the buildings. Because I oversea the spaceship design doesn't mean I actually fly it. Suggesting that the arhchitect builds the building is insulting to those who actually do.2. the argument wasn't made that I have never overseen a game project. the arugement was made that I have never MADE a game. very different.
The building wouldn't be possible to built without an architect, they do build buildings.
The spaceship wouldn't be possible to assembly without engineers, they do build spaceships.
It is just different role than workers and mechanics they play in the production However, no less important.
1. they do not build the buildings. Because I oversea the spaceship design doesn't mean I actually fly it. Suggesting that the arhchitect builds the building is insulting to those who actually do.
2. the argument wasn't made that I have never overseen a game project. the arugement was made that I have never MADE a game. very different.
The building wouldn't be possible to built without an architect, they do build buildings.
That is extremely insulting to construction workers.
Are you saying that without an architect a building cant be built but without construction workers it can?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
GTA, CoD, WoW always do better than then the games that come after and try to be like them.
Watch-dogs, BF, ToR.
The OP is more right than people here will ever give him credit for.
COD before BF? Wait what? 1942 (02) COD 1 (03), also you do realize Watchdogs is selling really well right? You might be correct about the article you read, but your examples are horrible.
You missed the point.
EQ was before WoW, but WoW made the MMO mainstream.
Watchdogs doing well is not the same as doing GTA5 well.
The point the analyst was making is that developers can succeed emulating another game, but the data tends to show that they never reach the same level of success. Developers are aware of that, and do it because its the SAFE bet.
They pointed out that game development, within larger studios, has a failure is not an option mentality that has lead to less innovation and large success than the games they attempt to emulate.
As I said the article may be correct, so I didn't miss your point, I just questioned your examples. I'm sure Ubisoft is perfectly content that they've released their fastest selling game ever.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by SEANMCADThat is extremely insulting to construction workers.Are you saying that without an architect a building cant be built but without construction workers it can?
An architect can build the building with his hands but construction worker cannot design the buidling.
And you are precisely that type of person.
A worker/gamer who thinks he can build a house/design a game because he has layed many bricks/played lots of games.
If blizzard never made WoW the mmo genre may have never become mainstream today. Developers may have never been willing to risk investing in a genre that had yet to be proven.
And people today would be saying that no one wants to play an MMO, and they evidence for them would be that no one makes them.
mmo were still being popped out preWOW (but not w WOW success)
Boston Globe article from Feb 2004 -- before WOW
Flood of games, too few players cause change in online realm
I'd flip this around and ask what games aren't being made? There are games covering just about everything today, you can play as a goat, you can build trains, you can build farms and operate the machinery, you can drive a truck across a country, you can go fishing, you can go hunting, you can build cities, you can build in space, you can kill things, you can raise things etc. etc. etc...so on and so forth.
the game industry has radically changed in just the past few years because indies have more exposure and what they are creating is what the AAA games are NOT creating.
That said I am still waiting for a construction focused MMO. I don't know of one..well Wurm and its awesome
Arguably you could call EQL that I guess, but you're right it's not a focus any game has really been built around outside of Wurm or ATITD.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No she didn't say anything like that at all. She saidwithout the architect the bolded could n out be built. Abd yes architects do help in the actual building. Have you actually never seen an architect work or even spoken to one
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
And it starts out stating that MICROSOFTpulled the plug on an unreleased game.
And who, other than Sony, is making games at that time? Not AAA studios.
Turbine is in same article
"Too many products got created, to be used by too few customers," said Jeffrey Anderson, CEO of Westwood-based Turbine Entertainment Software, developer of another successful online game, Asheron's Call. "It's like we all decided we all wanted to create our own version of MTV."
recap of mmos preWOW
Pre2001 Everquest, Ultima Online, Lineage
2001 Anarchy Online, Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot
2002 Asherons Call 2, Earth & Beyond, Final Fantasy XI
2003 Shadowbane, Eve Online, Lineage II ,Second Life, Star Wars Galaxies, Horizons (now called Istaria)
GTA, CoD, WoW always do better than then the games that come after and try to be like them.
Watch-dogs, BF, ToR.
The OP is more right than people here will ever give him credit for.
COD before BF? Wait what? 1942 (02) COD 1 (03), also you do realize Watchdogs is selling really well right? You might be correct about the article you read, but your examples are horrible.
You missed the point.
EQ was before WoW, but WoW made the MMO mainstream.
Watchdogs doing well is not the same as doing GTA5 well.
The point the analyst was making is that developers can succeed emulating another game, but the data tends to show that they never reach the same level of success. Developers are aware of that, and do it because its the SAFE bet.
They pointed out that game development, within larger studios, has a failure is not an option mentality that has lead to less innovation and large success than the games they attempt to emulate.
As I said the article may be correct, so I didn't miss your point, I just questioned your examples. I'm sure Ubisoft is perfectly content that they've released their fastest selling game ever.
I'm sure they are, but in the end it's a game that emulates GTA.
I played the hell out of 1942 and the original COD. The original CoD didn't put as much emphasis on the online part (it was praised for its single player gameplay), once they did CoD exploded. Today BF takes cues from CoD, not the other way around.
I agree it's not the perfect example, it was to illustrate a point more than anything.
I feel like this is a forest through the trees problem. Take a look around, every type of game imaginable is being made and readily available in some form or another. If you can't find a game you like, you're not looking hard enough. Or perhaps you might not like video games anymore.
And it starts out stating that MICROSOFTpulled the plug on an unreleased game.
And who, other than Sony, is making games at that time? Not AAA studios.
Turbine is in same article
"Too many products got created, to be used by too few customers," said Jeffrey Anderson, CEO of Westwood-based Turbine Entertainment Software, developer of another successful online game, Asheron's Call. "It's like we all decided we all wanted to create our own version of MTV."
speaking of Microsoft. I knew in my heart and soul that people wanted something different then what was being served when one of the Xbox One major reveals was that it supported Minecraft.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I feel like this is a forest through the trees problem. Take a look around, every type of game imaginable is being made and readily available in some form or another. If you can't find a game you like, you're not looking hard enough. Or perhaps you might not like video games anymore.
Originally posted by SEANMCADnot true.Architect will have to learn the skill of consutruction just like the construction worker would have to learn the skills of architecture.
Now you are unsulting anyone with uni degree...or any education in fact.
Architect will have to learn the skill of consutruction just like the construction worker would have to learn the skills of architecture.
Now you are unsulting anyone with uni degree...or any education in fact.
hardly!
so basically you are saying if someone has a degree it means that they personally did the work of thousands of people who will not get credit for the work they did?
yeah I don't think so...sorry bro not going to fly.
we can debate this matter forever but it diverts from the topic
I am to understand from you that as long as I am a lead designer on a game then that qualifies for having an opinon. I don't have to actually make the game or come up with the money.
odd rule but whatever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by FoomerangI feel like this is a forest through the trees problem. Take a look around, every type of game imaginable is being made and readily available in some form or another. If you can't find a game you like, you're not looking hard enough. Or perhaps you might not like video games anymore.
if you include indie games, true
but Op was referring to games by AAA publishers
AAA publisher is an archaic term imho. Its some category we use to try and define quality or a huge budget. Neither of which reflects the current state of the industry anymore (again imho)
Originally posted by SEANMCAD Originally posted by DistopiaOriginally posted by SEANMCAD
incorrect.I am sorry but 'paper boy throwing' is NOT a AAA game.ironically since Steam early access has come out there has been a LOT more diversity of games and they have been becoming successful which of course validates my point that people are not being served in the past and that it might be changingREMINDER: sims was the BEST SELLING PC GAME EVER....hmmm and its the only AAA game that doesn't involve killing....hmmmmm...Sims was so successful because it was a truly casual gaming experience. It was the farmville of it's day.of its day it was also the only high budget game that didn't involve killing.
Ironically the only attempt at a high dollar non-murder game ended up as a best seller?
no demand for non-killing games?
really?
seriously?
no. no demand. not anymore. the sims, if it were to release for the first time in the day and age, would not b as successful.
Sims Online, Sim City Online, Spore (arguably), Second Life
As far as the flavor of kool aid goes, just because there isn't a diarrhea flavor of cool aid doesn't mean someone should make one. On top of that, if kool aid told you that to make this flavor it would cost you $30 million dollars, do you think you could sell enough to get your money back? You don't need to be a CEO to figure out those numbers.
You obviously think game developers are stupid. I've worked with a number of business development managers in the gaming industry in the past, but my introduction to them was that they really didn't care about my "ideas". They'd heard them all before. "A dime a dozen" is the term one used, actually. All your talk about the theoretical mountains of money that there is to be made with these games will fall on deaf ears, because they're stuffed full of REAL money they are making from REAL games that have proven track records.
Time is finite. It's the reason that we all don't simply work at McDonalds. I mean if you could make 6-figures making fries at McDonalds, who wouldn't? I mean all the fries you can eat?!?!? No, you need to maximize the return on investment of your own time. A game company is no different. They have finite resources and want to focus on maximizing their return on investment in those resources. Once and a whlie, you might get skunkworks projects (like H1Z1?), but in the gaming industry these are rare, rare, rare activities. How H1Z1 was done boggles my mind. Hopefully means Sony is going to be doing more innovative work in the future.
In summary, everything you think you know has been thrown around a boardroom a thousand times and shot down more than Bubba at the local strip joint on a Friday night.
Let me help you try and contextualize this.
Have I played the BEST SELLING PC GAME IN WORLD HISTORY...The Sims? YES and I like it.
Do I play a plenty of other games that have shoot em ups? YES HOWEVER...I wish I had an option to play a game of that high quality GRAPHICS and not have to go around blowing everything up.
I am unclear why this is hard to understand. I as a gamer play games where a lot of killing is involved and its boring me, but why do I play? BECUASE I DONT HAVE ENOUGH OTHER OPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Try The Repopulation. Based on my understanding, it'll offer that option.
Other than that, you're right, there is a distinct lack of games that offer high quality graphics, but without killing. Well, I suppose Sim City Online is pretty close, but it's not really what you're looking for I don't think. The Sims might do something with updated graphics at some point? Maybe? However, I don't see games like "Shop Owner Online", "Fast Food Worker Online" or "A Day In The Life Of An Accountant: Online" coming any time soon with updated engines.
That's just reality. Instead of arguing about it, though, why don't you pitch a game and actually show measurable return on investment using factual data. That's what really creates change.
repopulation isn't even out.
I am going to say this just one more them then not say it again.
Because its not in the AAA space DOES NOT MEAN PEOPLE DONT WANT IT. I means the meal is not being served.
Do you honestly think that most of gamers want to only go around killing monsters all day and watch reality tv? seriously?
economics is NOT just demand side...its also supply side
Originally posted by SEANMCADhardly!so basically you are saying if someone has a degree it means that they personally did the work of thousands of people who will not get credit for the work they did?yeah I don't think so...sorry bro not going to fly
That is what you keep saying...despite being corrected, twice.
Sims was so successful because it was a truly casual gaming experience. It was the farmville of it's day.
of its day it was also the only high budget game that didn't involve killing.
Ironically the only attempt at a high dollar non-murder game ended up as a best seller?
no demand for non-killing games?
really?
seriously?
I really don't know how true that is, I mean we had tetris and stuff like that back then. Lots of adventures games at the time as well that didn't involve killing. I'd also bring up Shenmue which really wasn't a game about killing, which was my favorite game of that age.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
incorrect.I am sorry but 'paper boy throwing' is NOT a AAA game.ironically since Steam early access has come out there has been a LOT more diversity of games and they have been becoming successful which of course validates my point that people are not being served in the past and that it might be changingREMINDER: sims was the BEST SELLING PC GAME EVER....hmmm and its the only AAA game that doesn't involve killing....hmmmmm...
Sims was so successful because it was a truly casual gaming experience. It was the farmville of it's day.
of its day it was also the only high budget game that didn't involve killing.
Ironically the only attempt at a high dollar non-murder game ended up as a best seller?
no demand for non-killing games?
really?
seriously?
no. no demand. not anymore. the sims, if it were to release for the first time in the day and age, would not b as successful.
sims was released during a time where there were nearly zero non-combat focused games.
sims quickly became the best selling PC game of all time and held that record for a long time.
I fail to see the lack of understanding here..
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Sims was so successful because it was a truly casual gaming experience. It was the farmville of it's day.
of its day it was also the only high budget game that didn't involve killing.
Ironically the only attempt at a high dollar non-murder game ended up as a best seller?
no demand for non-killing games?
really?
seriously?
I really don't know how true that is, I mean we had tetris and stuff like that back then. Lots of adventures games at the time as well that didn't involve killing. I'd also bring up Shenmue which really wasn't a game about killing, which was my favorite game of that age.
wrong decade.
Tetris was about 20 years earlier.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
the game industry has radically changed in just the past few years because indies have more exposure and what they are creating is what the AAA games are NOT creating.
That said I am still waiting for a construction focused MMO. I don't know of one..well Wurm and its awesome
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
mmo were still being popped out preWOW (but not w WOW success)
Boston Globe article from Feb 2004 -- before WOW
Flood of games, too few players cause change in online realm
http://otherworlds31279.yuku.com/topic/1167/Online-games-failuresuccess-Boston-Globe-article#.U4illChQZTY
EQ2 fan sites
The building wouldn't be possible to built without an architect, they do build buildings.
The spaceship wouldn't be possible to assembly without engineers, they do build spaceships.
It is just different role than workers and mechanics they play in the production However, no less important.
That is extremely insulting to construction workers.
Are you saying that without an architect a building cant be built but without construction workers it can?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
As I said the article may be correct, so I didn't miss your point, I just questioned your examples. I'm sure Ubisoft is perfectly content that they've released their fastest selling game ever.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
An architect can build the building with his hands but construction worker cannot design the buidling.
And you are precisely that type of person.
A worker/gamer who thinks he can build a house/design a game because he has layed many bricks/played lots of games.
And it starts out stating that MICROSOFTpulled the plug on an unreleased game.
And who, other than Sony, is making games at that time? Not AAA studios.
Arguably you could call EQL that I guess, but you're right it's not a focus any game has really been built around outside of Wurm or ATITD.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Turbine is in same article
"Too many products got created, to be used by too few customers," said Jeffrey Anderson, CEO of Westwood-based Turbine Entertainment Software, developer of another successful online game, Asheron's Call. "It's like we all decided we all wanted to create our own version of MTV."
recap of mmos preWOW
Pre2001
Everquest, Ultima Online, Lineage
2001
Anarchy Online, Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot
2002
Asherons Call 2, Earth & Beyond, Final Fantasy XI
2003
Shadowbane, Eve Online, Lineage II ,Second Life, Star Wars Galaxies, Horizons (now called Istaria)
early 2004
City of Heroes
EQ2 fan sites
not true.
Architect will have to learn the skill of consutruction just like the construction worker would have to learn the skills of architecture.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'm sure they are, but in the end it's a game that emulates GTA.
I played the hell out of 1942 and the original COD. The original CoD didn't put as much emphasis on the online part (it was praised for its single player gameplay), once they did CoD exploded. Today BF takes cues from CoD, not the other way around.
I agree it's not the perfect example, it was to illustrate a point more than anything.
I feel like this is a forest through the trees problem. Take a look around, every type of game imaginable is being made and readily available in some form or another. If you can't find a game you like, you're not looking hard enough. Or perhaps you might not like video games anymore.
speaking of Microsoft. I knew in my heart and soul that people wanted something different then what was being served when one of the Xbox One major reveals was that it supported Minecraft.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
if you include indie games, true
but Op was referring to games by AAA publishers
EQ2 fan sites
Now you are unsulting anyone with uni degree...or any education in fact.
hardly!
so basically you are saying if someone has a degree it means that they personally did the work of thousands of people who will not get credit for the work they did?
yeah I don't think so...sorry bro not going to fly.
we can debate this matter forever but it diverts from the topic
I am to understand from you that as long as I am a lead designer on a game then that qualifies for having an opinon. I don't have to actually make the game or come up with the money.
odd rule but whatever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
but Op was referring to games by AAA publishers
AAA publisher is an archaic term imho. Its some category we use to try and define quality or a huge budget. Neither of which reflects the current state of the industry anymore (again imho)
Sims was so successful because it was a truly casual gaming experience. It was the farmville of it's day.
of its day it was also the only high budget game that didn't involve killing.
Ironically the only attempt at a high dollar non-murder game ended up as a best seller?
no demand for non-killing games?
really?
seriously?
no. no demand. not anymore. the sims, if it were to release for the first time in the day and age, would not b as successful.
This might sum it up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=990ON0M-n4g
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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That is what you keep saying...despite being corrected, twice.
I really don't know how true that is, I mean we had tetris and stuff like that back then. Lots of adventures games at the time as well that didn't involve killing. I'd also bring up Shenmue which really wasn't a game about killing, which was my favorite game of that age.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
sims was released during a time where there were nearly zero non-combat focused games.
sims quickly became the best selling PC game of all time and held that record for a long time.
I fail to see the lack of understanding here..
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
wrong decade.
Tetris was about 20 years earlier.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Nearly zero? There were a crap ton of Adventure games back then.. that was the genre's heyday more or less.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson