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Will the MMORPG genre ever get out of this rut?

DrCokePepsiDrCokePepsi Member UncommonPosts: 177

Hello MMORPG.com community. I know there are a billion and one discussions on 'Sandbox V. Themepark' or 'F2P V. P2P' etc. but really, it comes down to the industry itself and how terribly unbalanced the gaming industry in general, even, has become.

The gaming industry has become a financial slaughter-fest, a battle of the fuckers, so to say. Not a platform of entertainment any longer, and in this transition the games themselves have entered this 'rut'. MMO's especially. The only real competitors in this industry are corporate assholes who genuinely don't give a screw about what we play, or how fun the game is.

Now is where everyone goes, 'They're just games. Who cares? You take this too seriously.' And that is exactly the problem and that is EXACTLY what these corporate snobs understand about how we interact with their products. Nobody has come to the realization that almost every game being released today is either a AAA piece of shit mess, released at it's bare minimum potential so that the masses spend their money and ditch it...or an under-funded, incredibly buggy Indie title that doesn't stand a fucking CHANCE against these larger companies.

There is a massive divide between the financial support of these large game companies and the smaller indie offices, the equivalent to saying a source that will release lazy, mainstream pieces of shit, or titles that will go unpolished and never recognized though had potential and ambition.

This industry isn't 'just a game' it's a brick of lead that is falling into the pits of failure faster than we even recognize and the players allow it because 'I've had fun on some of these titles' or 'it's okay I can hit level 3000 in 10 minutes.'

Now don't get me wrong, if you do enjoy some of the new games, good on you! One of my favorite titles is the Dead Space series, and that masterpiece was released by the devil himself SONY. But that isn't to say, what we're seeing isn't even close to the potential of what these games COULD be. AAA developers go off of statistics, not ambition or personal investment at all. The truly ambitious designers within the team under the corporate A-holes are played like puppets...they're visions are brutally sliced in half by irrational business models and greedy fucks.

This is the situation of the MMORPG genre right now. I used to be angered because I believed 'F2P titles sucked' or 'Themeparks are shitty' but that wasn't the problem at all. What I hadn't realized is a F2P game could be fabulous, hell I had some of my best memories on Runescape, and a themepark could be great (I guess) given it wasn't an exact replica of WoW like every other...but I digress.

The point is, the companies that have this industry by the throat and the bastards who ruin every good game once they buy it out are the real issue in the industry right now. Indie titles simply aren't capable of creating a competing MMO title, and none of these AAA MMO's will never be as good as truly ambitious MMO's of the past.

My rose-colored glasses are not on, and I know this now after far too much analyzation (I couldn't tell whether or not I was nostalgic or these games are really bad). These games being released today are crap, they're repackaged or slightly variated pieces of shit, derived from other piece of shit games. There is no originality or refreshing perspectives in the industry because corporates like to produce entertainment as if it's being produced by machines.

They want their cash. That's it. So give me your thoughts, will the industry ever come out of this rut, or is it just now stuck in an eternal downfall?


Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
Thank you for your patience.
«13

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,493
    Not unless people tire of buying the current offerings, which show no sign of slowing.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ZizouXZizouX Member Posts: 670

    I dont' agree with your premise.  The MMO industry is so huge right now that everyone and their mother wants a piece of the pie.  Now, the market is over saturated and it's hard to make even a small dent.  Unless you're a niche title with a specific target audiance (Eve and FFXIV - ff fans).

     

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • c0existc0exist Member UncommonPosts: 196
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yes millions of people are having fun but you forgot a keyword there and thats temporarily.  The problem is not with the game at its core its more of a longevity issue.  People have their "fun" and hop to the next title.  Many on here see spending years on an MMO as a waste of time; actually taking time to build you character.  A waste of time to me is playing an MMO for 2 months just to jump to another.  I would rather just not play which I havent for the most part.  I dont believe it ever will change.  Hopefully one day there will be a developer that realizes not all of us wanted to be teleported everywhere, autogrouped up and instanced to death. 

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,626

    Rut? Housing has become standard. Crafting is becoming more in depth and relevant. Dynamic open world content is becoming more and more common. Content patches are more frequent than ever before. As an mmo gamer, I have more aaa titles to choose from than ever before. Multiple sandbox mmos on the horizon. The only rut I see are the same handful of people shouting doom and gloom with eyes wide shut. I was in that rut once, then I remembered why I am a gamer.

  • rygar218rygar218 Member UncommonPosts: 332
    No the industry is saturated with mmorpgs 
  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,104

    If there is any tip I wish to share with any Corporate suits or profiteers lurking about it's this:

     

     

    GET AWAY FROM THE LINEAR QUESTING WoW MODEL.

     

     

     

    Thanks and send checks made payable to azzamasin.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,493
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by c0exist
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yes millions of people are having fun but you forgot a keyword there and thats temporarily.  The problem is not with the game at its core its more of a longevity issue.  People have their "fun" and hop to the next title.  Many on here see spending years on an MMO as a waste of time; actually taking time to build you character.  A waste of time to me is playing an MMO for 2 months just to jump to another.  I would rather just not play which I havent for the most part.  I dont believe it ever will change.  Hopefully one day there will be a developer that realizes not all of us wanted to be teleported everywhere, autogrouped up and instanced to death. 

    All games are temporary. The idea of being dedicated to a single game for years is just not viable anymore. 

    Embrace the temporary as that is our reality.

    I reject your thesis, some day someone will build a game worthy of playing over the long haul, just won't be anything like the current offerings.

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by c0exist
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yes millions of people are having fun but you forgot a keyword there and thats temporarily.  The problem is not with the game at its core its more of a longevity issue.  People have their "fun" and hop to the next title.  Many on here see spending years on an MMO as a waste of time; actually taking time to build you character.  A waste of time to me is playing an MMO for 2 months just to jump to another.  I would rather just not play which I havent for the most part.  I dont believe it ever will change.  Hopefully one day there will be a developer that realizes not all of us wanted to be teleported everywhere, autogrouped up and instanced to death. 

    All games are temporary. The idea of being dedicated to a single game for years is just not viable anymore. 

    Embrace the temporary as that is our reality.

    I reject your thesis, some day someone will build a game worthy of playing over the long haul, just won't be anything like the current offerings.

     

    Go into any mmo and you'll find people that have been playing since the game launched. By the time the magic mmo gets made will some players be so bitter at the genre they miss that game too ?

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505


    Originally posted by DMKano
    The players are changing - you are not taking that into the equation - the way we use technology is evolving as is the way we play games. Its a lot more likely that future gamers play, leave, play, leave again (which is what the F2P model is perfect for) than the old idea of keeping a player for years - that model is dying out. Remember that we are living in time of accelerated technology growth, our attention span is getting shorter and shorter, the new trends are coming in faster and faster and there is simply less time for an average gamer to stick to a single game. So I will hold unto my thesis - time will tell, and time destroys all things.
     

    (Emphasis added by me)

    Oh man, the conversation to be had about technology's affects on the younger generation, and not just in terms of video games. Totally off-topic, however. So, carry on!

    image
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,164
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yea.....until they move on to the next thing a few months to a year after release. You speak in half-truth here, but I think you know that. MMO communities do not have the staying power UO, EQ, AO, AC, DAOC, and even WoW had. They sell a ton of games, but the community is a transient one.

    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 6,074
    For the record each year WoW draws its players back for an expansion and they have been faithful to that game since 2004. I do not think we are fair to players in general we seem to have more choices so we flit from game to game like bees but we do come back to our favourites. That is a form of loyalty. I am loyal to SWTOR now. I was to EQ ,EQ 2, City of Heroes/Villians and WoW to some extent.

  • TheodwulfTheodwulf Member UncommonPosts: 307

    Doomed...New games haven't kept up with the reasonable expectations of the consumer base. Current games are built in an industry echo chamber, they have decided what "works" and will not deviate from that model. As long as people keep paying that model will keep being produced. Profit is the only metric that matters, Did it make money?, if the answer is yes, then mission accomplished. Why change to a model that might not make money.

     

       I have spent lots of time and money on crappy games, so has everyone else, far more time and money than on great games or even good games...why not make crappy games.

  • SilkravenSilkraven Member UncommonPosts: 74
    we can only hope. sifting through a list of crap games is exhausting,but there may be light at the end of the tunnel. time will tell.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,528

    GREAT post and an interesting read. I love both the professionalism of the author in both nailing the problem and content. The "dirty words" even keep you reading.

    Well done OP,

     

     

    Anyway, my opinion about the poll and comments :

     

    1) You hit the nail on the head with how the industry had taken a turn for the worst. BUT a lot of people here seem to enjoy short crap for what ever reason.

    Add that, MMOs are no longer mmos.  Yet mmorpg.com will list any game that requires an internet connection with other players on your screen.

    It's almost to the point that we need a new site called mmorpg 2.com, where only real mmos should be listed.  But the problem with that is only roughly five games would be listed.  And of the five games, many have gone f2P cash grabs, leaving us with nothing.....So mmorpg 2.com would not work either :(

     

     

    2) We have two new types of people posting on this site.

    a) People looking for totally free games, railroading any topic that goes against their chance of playing totally free.

    b) People that don't care if the games are mmos at all.  EVEN IF THIS IS AN MMO SITE.

     

    Good work on nailing the problem OP.  But unfortunately it falls on deaf ears.......Marketing takes a front seat !

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,509

    The industry and genre overall? Most probably not. It will be(and already is) more and more like the Movie Industry. Big budget popcorn Movies with high production value, but not a lot of depth.. games like GW2, SWTOR, WOW. But also more and more indy productions with less production value, but a lot more depth.. and the good thing is, that those indy productions get more and more backing and will have at least decent production value and more important experienced developers and designer like it is in the movie industry..

    And we already see it in the MMO genre, too. Games and developers like SotA(Riccard Garriott), Camelot Unchained(Mark Jacobs), Star Citizen(Chris Roberts) and more.. which do have a very experienced, but small, development team and are completely independent and can go for more depth, and less popcorn.

    Though... none of those are already released, but i do have a lot of hope that something good wile arise out of them, and those indy projects are a lot different in comparsion to all indy projects before. Because before that.. all indy games were basicly from very inexperienced developers, with even less funds.. and the outcome and quality was very uncertain.. as games like Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Mortal Online, Darkfall, Ryzom, EvE and more has shown.. basicly only EvE really did work out.. everything else basicly failed because of the inexperience of their developers.. although some were at least decent successful.

    In summary.. i doubt that the industry as a whole get any better, but that we get a well established indy scene, with decent funding and some good and creative games very similar to the movie industry. With that said.. the future might be brighter as some expect.

    Edit: And the key is diversity. Mass products(high production value, less depth) for the uneducated(ok, provoking ;)) masses, and products with a lot of depth, creativity and quality, but just not that much production value for the more educated, picky, upperclass consumers. Thats how almost everything works in the world.. movies, food/restaurants, cars, whatever.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,493
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by c0exist
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yes millions of people are having fun but you forgot a keyword there and thats temporarily.  The problem is not with the game at its core its more of a longevity issue.  People have their "fun" and hop to the next title.  Many on here see spending years on an MMO as a waste of time; actually taking time to build you character.  A waste of time to me is playing an MMO for 2 months just to jump to another.  I would rather just not play which I havent for the most part.  I dont believe it ever will change.  Hopefully one day there will be a developer that realizes not all of us wanted to be teleported everywhere, autogrouped up and instanced to death. 

    All games are temporary. The idea of being dedicated to a single game for years is just not viable anymore. 

    Embrace the temporary as that is our reality.

    I reject your thesis, some day someone will build a game worthy of playing over the long haul, just won't be anything like the current offerings.

     

    The players are changing - you are not taking that into the equation - the way we use technology is evolving as is the way we play games.

    Its a lot more likely that future gamers play, leave, play, leave again (which is what the F2P model is perfect for) than the old idea of keeping a player for years - that model is dying out.

    Remember that we are living in time of accelerated technology growth, our attention span is getting shorter and shorter, the new trends are coming in faster and faster and there is simply less time for an average gamer to stick to a single game.

    So I will hold unto my thesis - time will tell, and

    time destroys all things.

    I'm lucky I guess, I'm too old to change, my attention span remains the same as it ever was, my patience still remains pretty limitless, (heck, I ride my horse almost everywhere in ArcheAge, rather than fast travel) and I reject the argument that there is less time for the average gamer to stick to a single game. 

    No different than if they play a dozen games in the same time frame, heck, I've never had more than couple of hours to game most days my entire life, computer gaming wasn't even invented until I was well into family, career, etc.

    I've accepted that due to their environment, people are actually becoming much better in some areas, at the sacrifice of being proficient in others, always a cost with change.

    I still think one day (not in my lifetime) gaming will become something like the game in the cancelled TV show Caprica, heck we may replace most of reality with something like that.

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,124
    It's an easy rut to get out of in theory. Dear MMORPG genre stop spinning your tires on WoW clones. I'm sure eventually things will happen.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • I think it's slowly getting out of the rut. Look at a big name title like EverQuest Next. Sandbox. When the big boys start making sandbox games, it's a sign the theme park market is saturated.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083

    I haven't really noticed a "rut" per say. But I would say the amount of quality games versus cash grab games has gone up exponentially since the rise of F2P.

     

    Until Whales and the uninformed realize that F2P means you actually pay more and get less, they will continue to capitalize on the ignorance of consumers. There are a few games out there that don't rely on these cash grab tactics such as WoW and ESO. The future looks better for the genre now than it did 2 years ago for sure.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,517
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Not unless people tire of buying the current offerings, which show no sign of slowing.

    The player base is to caught up in all this crap to care anymore. They are paying to play alpha's for crying out loud. Things are not going to change as long as the game companies get their money. So yeah i think the mmo genre is falling down and may never get back up. Wildstar is the next big hope for the genre, I think not by a mile. And Star Citizen a game you will need a supercomputer to run will be niche at best. Nothing is coming down the pike that is doing anything different.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    I think there is definitely a certain amount of "sameyness" right now, but then there's always a certain amount of "sameyness" right now.  When I first started playing Doom, Hexen, etc., there was a certain amount of "sameyness".  If you only look at a small window of time, this is almost certainly going to be the case.  It wouldn't have occurred to me to call it a rut though.  Even among the "samey" games, there are differences and things that developers are doing to push things forward.  It may not be stuff that I want, but there is definitely more than zero progression happening.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • kakasakikakasaki Member UncommonPosts: 1,205
    Originally posted by delete5230

    GREAT post and an interesting read. I love both the professionalism of the author in both nailing the problem and content. The "dirty words" even keep you reading.

    Well done OP,

     

     

    Anyway, my opinion about the poll and comments :

     

    1) You hit the nail on the head with how the industry had taken a turn for the worst. BUT a lot of people here seem to enjoy short crap for what ever reason.

    Add that, MMOs are no longer mmos.  Yet mmorpg.com will list any game that requires an internet connection with other players on your screen.

    It's almost to the point that we need a new site called mmorpg 2.com, where only real mmos should be listed.  But the problem with that is only roughly five games would be listed.  And of the five games, many have gone f2P cash grabs, leaving us with nothing.....So mmorpg 2.com would not work either :(

     

     

    2) We have two new types of people posting on this site.

    a) People looking for totally free games, railroading any topic that goes against their chance of playing totally free.

    b) People that don't care if the games are mmos at all.  EVEN IF THIS IS AN MMO SITE.

     

    Good work on nailing the problem OP.  But unfortunately it falls on deaf ears.......Marketing takes a front seat !

    Forgot the 3rd:

     

    c) the jaded vets that hates every MMO made in the last few years and seems to be under the delusion that their opinion is: 1) in the majority 2) confuse opinion with fact. Some in this group state they have not played an MMO in years yet for some reason frequent a site geared to a hobby they don't follow any more...

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yea.....until they move on to the next thing a few months to a year after release. You speak in half-truth here, but I think you know that. MMO communities do not have the staying power UO, EQ, AO, AC, DAOC, and even WoW had. They sell a ton of games, but the community is a transient one.

     

    This keeps coming up as a response, and it's just not true.

     

    SWToR has been running for several years, with a higher population than UO, EQ, AO, AC and DAoC.  LotRO has been running for over seven years (with a higher population) and DDO has been running even longer.  Champions Online and STO are both still running and the time frame for their duration is years, not months.  There are certainly MMORPGs that peter out pretty quickly, but it would be strange if some of them didn't fail and shut down.  Luckily it's games like Family Guy Online that shutdown, and not games like ArcheAge or Age of Conan.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    And yet millions of people are somehow having fun and paying for the games you consider garbage. Maybe it's you.

    Yea.....until they move on to the next thing a few months to a year after release. You speak in half-truth here, but I think you know that. MMO communities do not have the staying power UO, EQ, AO, AC, DAOC, and even WoW had. They sell a ton of games, but the community is a transient one.

     

    This keeps coming up as a response, and it's just not true.

     

    SWToR has been running for several years, with a higher population than UO, EQ, AO, AC and DAoC.  LotRO has been running for over seven years (with a higher population) and DDO has been running even longer.  Champions Online and STO are both still running and the time frame for their duration is years, not months.  There are certainly MMORPGs that peter out pretty quickly, but it would be strange if some of them didn't fail and shut down.  Luckily it's games like Family Guy Online that shutdown, and not games like ArcheAge or Age of Conan.

     

    You could argue it's survival was dependent on the exploitive measure that is micro transactions (buying virtual items for real money).  They couldn't survive on a subscription based model.  I believe this is part of the problem as MMOs hang around with micro transactions when they should died.  A smaller market would likely be a healthier market for subscription based games.  Instead it's a bloated market that leeches off players with RMT IMO.

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