Things game companies need to understand

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-There is more to gaming the killing

-There is more to RPG then fantasy

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but its time to move on to skill based systems.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is about to die.

-Gaming should be looked at as a service rather than a product

-There is more money to be made (and at a smaller cost) in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

added: ( I can tell I said the same thing more than once above and in so doing I forgot the other items)

-to pvp you have to dehumanize your opponent which is the same social structures 'clans' take on. If you are in the clan you are good and exceptions are made, If you are out of the clan then you are different. Understanding the social system is important when creating a game. People really pvp for collaboration work

Distopia · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-

Huh? People are still copying first generation platformers and are being praised for it. THis industry has always been one of copying and piggy backing, where have you been?

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-

Huh? People are still copying first generation platformers and are being praised for it. THis industry has always been one of copying and piggy backing, where have you been?

you say they are getting praised for it.

by who, people who pay or people who are paid to say?

are the sales for the next zombie game really better than say Space Engineers?

DamonVile · May 2014

Anyone and everyone is an expert on what should be done. Real genius comes from actually being able to do it.

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by DamonVile Anyone and everyone is an expert on what should be done. Real genius comes from actually being able to do it.

No...that is more having resources (money and time), desire and displine.

Jacxolope · May 2014

Originally posted by DamonVile
Anyone and everyone is an expert on what should be done. Real genius comes from actually being able to do it.

You think anyone appreciates sound logic? Go away with your rational statements and come back when you have some raging to do.

hfztt · May 2014

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-

Huh? People are still copying first generation platformers and are being praised for it. THis industry has always been one of copying and piggy backing, where have you been?

Yup. There is a reason the movie industry is made around telling the same stories and having trailers that shows the whole movie to make people feel safe about their product.

Innovation is more often than not punished by entertainment audiences, making doing what has been allready been done before the safer bet.

CrazKanuk · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-There is more to gaming the killing

-There is more to RPG then fantasy

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but its time to move on to skill based systems.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is about to die.

-Gaming should be looked at as a service rather than a product

-There is more money to be made (and at a smaller cost) in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

added: ( I can tell I said the same thing more than once above and in so doing I forgot the other items)

-to pvp you have to dehumanize your opponent which is the same social structures 'clans' take on. If you are in the clan you are good and exceptions are made, If you are out of the clan then you are different. Understanding the social system is important when creating a game. People really pvp for collaboration work

Each one of your points is a fallacy. Prime examples, CoD, GTA, Battlefield.

Also, if people wanted more than WoW, we'd see innovative games being made by AAA studios. Instead it's smaller companies, and they usually get skewered by reality. Take a look at Shards Online. It provides plenty of really high-concept stuff, but less than 1000 people step up to support it. If it was Shards of Duty Online then maybe.

Distopia · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-

Huh? People are still copying first generation platformers and are being praised for it. THis industry has always been one of copying and piggy backing, where have you been?

you say they are getting praised for it.

by who, people who pay or people who are paid to say?

are the sales for the next zombie game really better than say Space Engineers?

Information we can't see aside, just look at the games that release regularly and sell the most, they're all regurgitated for the most part, aside from the select indie title here and there. WHich even many of those are retreads to old ideas.

DamonVile · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by DamonVile Anyone and everyone is an expert on what should be done. Real genius comes from actually being able to do it.

No...that is more having resources (money and time), desire and displine.

Silly me..I forgot, you're an expert on this.

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by hfztt
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-

Huh? People are still copying first generation platformers and are being praised for it. THis industry has always been one of copying and piggy backing, where have you been?

Yup. There is a reason the movie industry is made around telling the same stories and having trailers that shows the whole movie to make people feel safe about their product.

Innovation is more often than not punished by entertainment audiences, making doing what has been allready been done before the safer bet.

I might be incorrect but I see gaming as much more of an innovative endeavor then the movie industry.

Additionally, what caught the movie industry by surprise was that people love documentaries. Why didn't the industry know that? because they were not offering them.

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by DamonVile Anyone and everyone is an expert on what should be done. Real genius comes from actually being able to do it.

No...that is more having resources (money and time), desire and displine.

Silly me..I forgot, you're an expert on this.

you are correct sir

Kaladin · May 2014

Sounds like you've got this all figured out. I anxiously await the release if your product, sounds like it will be the game to end all games.

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by Kaladin
Sounds like you've got this all figured out. I anxiously await the release if your product, sounds like it will be the game to end all games.

I am always amazed at the intelligence level of game posters who think an observation on what needs to happen based on decades of playing games is in anyway whatsoever related to the efforts or desires of creating a multimillion dollar game.

Don't look for games from me, I am almost retired as it is.

VengeSunsoar · May 2014

I've driven a car for decades I must be an expert on hot to design one. I've used my body for decades Imust be an expert in how it functions. I've watched tv for decades I must be an expert in tv programming.

Observing or even using something for long periods of time does not make you an expert in anything more than how you use that product

alkarionlog · May 2014

they will never learn and never will change as long you guys still pay for the same crap over and over, they don't need the success, they don't care for good review or bad ones, they don't even care if you like they games or not if you play or not, as long you are paying, getting DLCs, defending bad games design, or saying its alpha they will fix it.

want better games? start to pay for only the ones who deserve

VengeSunsoar · May 2014

They are. Just not the same ones you are.

nbtscan · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
-to pvp you have to dehumanize your opponent which is the same social structures 'clans' take on. If you are in the clan you are good and exceptions are made, If you are out of the clan then you are different. Understanding the social system is important when creating a game. People really pvp for collaboration work

Couldn't be further from the truth. People that PvP, whether it's in MMORPGs or online FPS games, do it for a feeling of superiority over someone else. Why else would some max level character repeatedly gank some low level character, or people in shooters corpse camp people as they're respawning?

I know there are some games where there are clans built around PvP, but the concept as a whole is not built around people getting together and killing off each other.

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by NightHaveN
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Not in order

-Gaming is an innovation industry, if you copy what has been done before you will suffer for it.

-There is more to gaming the killing

-There is more to RPG then fantasy

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but its time to move on to skill based systems.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is about to die.

-Gaming should be looked at as a service rather than a product

-There is more money to be made (and at a smaller cost) in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

added: ( I can tell I said the same thing more than once above and in so doing I forgot the other items)

-to pvp you have to dehumanize your opponent which is the same social structures 'clans' take on. If you are in the clan you are good and exceptions are made, If you are out of the clan then you are different. Understanding the social system is important when creating a game. People really pvp for collaboration work

And never release a nearly unplayable, full of bugs game. Like dates, first impressions matter, and if the game fails at first, very likely it will never recover from it.

actually I dont agree with this.

Ironically I have been playing my early access games more than my fully polished released games.

This is because 'games as a service not a product' is a good model

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
I've driven a car for decades I must be an expert on hot to design one. I've used my body for decades Imust be an expert in how it functions. I've watched tv for decades I must be an expert in tv programming.

Observing or even using something for long periods of time does not make you an expert in anything more than how you use that product

you dont have to build a car yourself to know what good design changes are needed. In fact those two skill sets are COMPLETELY different.

When was the last time you saw an architect actually building a building?

Benedikt · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Things gamers need to understand:

Not in order

-Gaming is an industry about making money, just like any other industry. if something worked once, it is more safe for investors to have it remade again then to try something new.

-There is more to gaming the killing, but it is still what average gamer is most interested in.

-There is more to RPG then fantasy, but fantasy RPGs still enjoy biggest success.

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game, but mediocre game with good marketing will make you more money.

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but while some gamers think that it's time to move on to skill based systems, average gamer still prefers classes and quests.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is going to die, but it is still more popular than anything else out there.

-Gaming should be looked at as a hobby.

-There is more money to be lost in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

fixed

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Things gamers need to understand:

Not in order

-Gaming is an industry about making money, just like any other industry. if something worked once, it is more safe for investors to have it remade again then to try something new.

-There is more to gaming the killing, but it is still what average gamer is most interested in.

-There is more to RPG then fantasy, but fantasy RPGs still enjoy biggest success.

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game, but mediocre game with good marketing will make you more money.

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but while some gamers think that it's time to move on to skill based systems, average gamer still prefers classes and quests.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is going to die, but it is still more popular than anything else out there.

-Gaming should be looked at as a hobby.

-There is more money to be lost in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

fixed

I agree with some of that but I tkool aid however I dont think the average gamer just wants killing and quests.

If the average gamer is drinking the only kool aid in the store it doesnt mean he is not intrested in a new flavor he hadnt thought of.

In many respects if you want to play any video game you have to kill.

Speaking for myself I have killed far more in games then I care to.

CrazKanuk · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Things gamers need to understand:

Not in order

-Gaming is an industry about making money, just like any other industry. if something worked once, it is more safe for investors to have it remade again then to try something new.

-There is more to gaming the killing, but it is still what average gamer is most interested in.

-There is more to RPG then fantasy, but fantasy RPGs still enjoy biggest success.

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game, but mediocre game with good marketing will make you more money.

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but while some gamers think that it's time to move on to skill based systems, average gamer still prefers classes and quests.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is going to die, but it is still more popular than anything else out there.

-Gaming should be looked at as a hobby.

-There is more money to be lost in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

fixed

I agree with some of that but I tkool aid however I dont think the average gamer just wants killing and quests.

If the average gamer is drinking the only kool aid in the store it doesnt mean he is not intrested in a new flavor he hadnt thought of.

In many respects if you want to play any video game you have to kill.

Speaking for myself I have killed far more in games then I care to.

I think that they tried to make Bible Chronicles. It didn't work.

Maybe they should create Paperboy Online? Or Wallstreet Kid Online?

DamonVile · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
I've driven a car for decades I must be an expert on hot to design one. I've used my body for decades Imust be an expert in how it functions. I've watched tv for decades I must be an expert in tv programming.

Observing or even using something for long periods of time does not make you an expert in anything more than how you use that product

you dont have to build a car yourself to know what good design changes are needed. In fact those two skill sets are COMPLETELY different.

When was the last time you saw an architect actually building a building?

Playing games doesn't make you an architect, designing them does. Building them makes you a programmer. What you are is a guy that's lived in a building and doesn't like where they put the stairs.

It's a good thing to ask for features in mmos and to express your desires in what you'd like to play. It's another to start telling them you know more about what makes a good game because you've played them before. That would make everyone an expert here...and I think we both know how untrue that is from just reading the forums.

SEANMCAD · May 2014

Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Things gamers need to understand:

Not in order

-Gaming is an industry about making money, just like any other industry. if something worked once, it is more safe for investors to have it remade again then to try something new.

-There is more to gaming the killing, but it is still what average gamer is most interested in.

-There is more to RPG then fantasy, but fantasy RPGs still enjoy biggest success.

-Its cheaper to make a good game then it is to advertise a mediocre game, but mediocre game with good marketing will make you more money.

-classes and quests where a great concept in the 70s but while some gamers think that it's time to move on to skill based systems, average gamer still prefers classes and quests.

-if it looks like its popular chances are the popularity (like bow ties) is going to die, but it is still more popular than anything else out there.

-Gaming should be looked at as a hobby.

-There is more money to be lost in innovation then there is advertising and convincing the public of your non-innovative agenda. (This is true for most industries though)

fixed

I agree with some of that but I tkool aid however I dont think the average gamer just wants killing and quests.

If the average gamer is drinking the only kool aid in the store it doesnt mean he is not intrested in a new flavor he hadnt thought of.

In many respects if you want to play any video game you have to kill.

Speaking for myself I have killed far more in games then I care to.

I think that they tried to make Bible Chronicles. It didn't work.

Maybe they should create Paperboy Online? Or Wallstreet Kid Online?

what the actual f*ck?!!!!

killing or bible chronicles?

oh man...

ok how about Kerbal Space Program? Sims?

but as I have said...please read carefully....if the flavor of kool aid hasn't been on the market how do you know people do not like it?

What was the last AAA game that didn't involve killing?....exactly.

Benedikt · May 2014

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

but as I have said...please read carefully....if the flavor of kool aid hasn't been on the market how do you know people do not like it?

What was the last AAA game that didn't involve killing?....exactly.

sorry, but what is better "proof"

"there are no aaa games w/o killing" => people want such game

or

"there are no aaa games w/o killing" and people massively buy the ones about killing => people want games about killing

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Things game companies need to understand

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