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The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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  • NightfyreNightfyre Member UncommonPosts: 205

    I miss the days of Everquest, where you almost had to group if you wanted to get somewhere.  Unless you wanted to run around and kite mobs for an hour or so.  With the demanding grouping you met interesting people.  I met some great people that I hung around with most of my Everquest life, just by grouping and chatting while we waited for our mana/health to come back or mobs to respawn.

    It was a great part of the game that's been lost due to solo additions in games.  Worse is games that let you create or hire a companion to follow you around that takes the place of something you're missing.  They have really let the social aspect drift away, in favor of letting people be loners.

    And no, zone chat is not a social aspect of a game. 

  • GadarethGadareth Member UncommonPosts: 310
    Originally posted by Nightfyre

    I miss the days of Everquest, where you almost had to group if you wanted to get somewhere.  Unless you wanted to run around and kite mobs for an hour or so.  With the demanding grouping you met interesting people.  I met some great people that I hung around with most of my Everquest life, just by grouping and chatting while we waited for our mana/health to come back or mobs to respawn.

    It was a great part of the game that's been lost due to solo additions in games.  Worse is games that let you create or hire a companion to follow you around that takes the place of something you're missing.  They have really let the social aspect drift away, in favor of letting people be loners.

    And no, zone chat is not a social aspect of a game. 

    I never felt "forced" to group in EverQuest you grouped together because you wanted to and you were on a mutual objective. Part of this was the slower and more relaxed pace people weren't in a rush you had time to kick back have a chat inbetween the combat. There wern't group only mobs and solo mobs it was all about the con anything light blue or under was soloable but the light blues could be dicey. Anything that was dark blue to yellow was best to be done in a group. Reds well reds were if you were feeling confident and didnt mind the possibility of a corpse run.

    Thing was you could solo EQ1 you just had to accept that while you were limited to soloing say the top level of  Befallen and taking it real slow if you were grouped you could be doing the second level as well and moving quicker. This in my opinion is the best approach for gameplay don't force the issue just have the content in place and the player makes the choice of style.

     

     

  • AbndnAbndn Member Posts: 53

    MMORPGs need to heavily encourage grouping by making valuable content unsoloable from the very beginning of the game (not just at max level). It should be possible to play solo, but you need to be missing out on content you'd probably want to complete.

    As it stands soloing is superior to finding someone random to group with in almost every single MMORPG on the market (in stark contrast to older MMORPGs, which were usually the other way around), and that is why they are lonely experiences for most people who don't play with friends from elsewhere.

  • AddieuAddieu Member Posts: 10

    Sometimes I like to play solo - because sadly in a lot of MMO's its the most rewarding profile.

    But I think MMORPG's should be 90% team play. That;s what for those games are - to be able to interact and play with other people. When playing all alone why not just play a PC solo game.

  • rebjornrebjorn Member Posts: 3
    There's a time for everything. People play single player games for a reason, right? Skyrim wouldn't be the same if you had 400 randoms running around the towns or jumping about in the hills. I often disable chats in WoW, for example.

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  • PuffyWigglesPuffyWiggles Member CommonPosts: 4

     It really bothers me when people say Everquests mechanics were outdated and no longer work just because they personally didn't enjoy them. Its bothersome because its blatantly false, some of the biggest games out right now take a lot of what made Everquest great and guess what? People love these games. They are heralded as games that are harsh and penalizing like oldschool games and they have a huge following just for that single aspect alone.

     

     Just because games have gotten easier to appeal to a wider audience doesn't mean our games have evolved any more than graduating from algebra only to find all math stops at Addition would be an advancement in mathmatics. Nor is Led Zeppelin to Justin Beiber an evolution of music, although the numbers may make the small minded think that.

     

     As for the games im talking about? Dark/Demon Souls, DayZ, Eve. Games based on no maps, harsh death penalties, corpse runs, a brutal atmosphere, long travel times, the need to eat and drink to survive, the need for grouping(except in Dark souls, but you still need texts to figure out certain secrets and have to group to unlock spells/gear.) These games work, they work well. MMO players are just generally sissies. Sorry.

  • basementclev2basementclev2 Member Posts: 1
    I like to play solo - because sadly in a lot of MMO's its the most rewarding profile.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610

    I just recently got back into SWTOR(again) and I'm having a really fun leveling experience in this solo(?) MMO.

     

    I'm having so much fun as I'm playing with people using the LFG tool. Most of the time I'm just running 4 man dungeons. More often that not the PUGs are great adequate players.

    I only land on planets to do the class story.

    So much fun in an MMO that people claimed to be a failure and a single player experience.

    The thing is, I do feel like it's no different then when I used to play Quake where I'd hop from one server to another. It's very instanced compared to what I was expecting from an MMO. Which is open world group questing.

     

    Group play is still out there in todays MMO's and very easy to find if SWTOR is anything to go by. It's just instanced.

     

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  • CatbipCatbip Member Posts: 1

    Hey guys! This might me slightly off-topic, am I am sorry for that, but I need some help and this is where I am most likely to get it.

    I am a 3rd year psychology student and I am conducting a study for school regarding socializing in MMORPGs, namely the communities that form inside guilds (in other words, the purpose of this study is to prove my mom wrong for all the years she kept nagging me to get some "real" friends). I am looking for volunteers to fill out a questionnaire, it will take 10-15 mins tops, and I would be eternally grateful. 

    So if you're feeling kind, click on the link below and help me pass my final year!

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fQpxQhnLJ6K-oqTtj9lxUJ14rbe_usLxSEZhjXtPgtQ/viewform

  • kizechskizechs Member Posts: 1

    Gaming Then and Now....

    i began online gaming in 1998 with one of the very first mmo's ultima online..i will use my experience in this game and 1 or 2 others to show the contrast of gaming today.  

    back then when new players entered the game, they were most often greeted with help and support from the other players, so much so that a lot of times complete strangers would hook you up with gold , gear, help you level, and share a few tips as well. you in general never see that today. another difference is player killers those days you would certainly be killed by other players out of the blue and even worse was after they killed you they could take what ever was on you person at the time, meaning you lost it all gear gold what ever.  but if you were lucky enough to get back to this person he would most often give it back if not all then most of it., today he'd call you a noob and if you asked for your stuff back he'd quickly tell you where to stick it..  we did have troublesome people from time to time and what happened was the account was perma-banned, if he wanted to continue playing, he had to re-buy the game, and probably had a much better attitude the 2nd time around.  in star wars galaxies year 1, you had to hand over your gear to complete strangers to get it enhanced, after a year of playing not once did anyone run off with my gear, something i doubt i could say today if the situation was the same.  i also played a delta force 3 and 4 again after 3 years i could probably count on one hand how many time i was insulted win or lose.  another thing we did back then was a little thing called a group, didn't matter what we did more often than not  we did it as a group.

    today mmo doesn't mean mmo,  it used to mean multi-player, today it means solo-play along side a bunch of other solo-players.  which begs the question why play an mmo if all you want to do is play alone. seriously buy final fantasy or something if you want to play alone. most mmo's its difficult to near impossible to get in a group to do anything and when you do....my next point...be prepared to under go an onslaught of insults and antagonistic  vocal abuse if you even so much as breath the wrong way.

    i attempted to play smite recently and having little moba experience it takes a bit of time to get things down, well in the learning process there is no helpful hints or understanding that your new to the game, so you have to endure the insults on a constant basis until you get good, and then prepare your self for more insults, once you get good your a kill stealer, a no-life low-life who lives with his mom ,this is a team based game?. and the all time low of lows apparently now you can be reported for not being good at the game...WOW!!!  I've heard the argument there are people that feed on purpose and i don't doubt it given the insults flying from your own team that someone would do that.

    so i have to ask,  what happened to gamers? 

    the problem lies in the fact that this new generation of gamers hasn't learned how to win or lose with grace and dignity, they haven't learned the concept of team work or team effort, they haven't learned how to give, help or support anyone but themselves and their own agenda's.  sure not all gamers are this way but it's certainly an ever growing community of them.

    i do miss the old days,  when any game whether mmo,fps,or otherwise was an experience filled with group play and helpful communities beyond anything today's gamers seem capable of offering,  online gaming wasn't always a drama fest of insults a solidarity  that it is today, it certainly shows how low online gaming has become.

  • WingeyeWingeye Member Posts: 58
    In MMORPGs soloing should be harder by default, hello, bye, im out

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  • maybebakedmaybebaked Member UncommonPosts: 305
    I'm an mmo loner.  I like solo play, because I like open world RPGs.  I guess being disappointed in humanity so many times reading trade chat made me antisocial.
  • KJ30KJ30 Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by kizechs

    Gaming Then and Now....

    i attempted to play smite recently and having little moba experience it takes a bit of time to get things down, well in the learning process there is no helpful hints or understanding that your new to the game, so you have to endure the insults on a constant basis until you get good, and then prepare your self for more insults, once you get good your a kill stealer, a no-life low-life who lives with his mom ,this is a team based game?. and the all time low of lows apparently now you can be reported for not being good at the game...WOW!!!  I've heard the argument there are people that feed on purpose and i don't doubt it given the insults flying from your own team that someone would do that.

    so i have to ask,  what happened to gamers? 

    the problem lies in the fact that this new generation of gamers hasn't learned how to win or lose with grace and dignity, they haven't learned the concept of team work or team effort, they haven't learned how to give, help or support anyone but themselves and their own agenda's.  sure not all gamers are this way but it's certainly an ever growing community of them.

     

    I agree . Unfortunately the mmo community is a subgroup of the real world with the same characteristics. Full of competitive, greedy no brainers who find a twisted pleasure in insulting people and behave like assholes. However i am optimistic...

    "Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others, it is the only means"

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Originally posted by KJ30
    Originally posted by kizechs

    Gaming Then and Now....

    i attempted to play smite recently and having little moba experience it takes a bit of time to get things down, well in the learning process there is no helpful hints or understanding that your new to the game, so you have to endure the insults on a constant basis until you get good, and then prepare your self for more insults, once you get good your a kill stealer, a no-life low-life who lives with his mom ,this is a team based game?. and the all time low of lows apparently now you can be reported for not being good at the game...WOW!!!  I've heard the argument there are people that feed on purpose and i don't doubt it given the insults flying from your own team that someone would do that.

    so i have to ask,  what happened to gamers? 

    the problem lies in the fact that this new generation of gamers hasn't learned how to win or lose with grace and dignity, they haven't learned the concept of team work or team effort, they haven't learned how to give, help or support anyone but themselves and their own agenda's.  sure not all gamers are this way but it's certainly an ever growing community of them.

     

    I agree . Unfortunately the mmo community is a subgroup of the real world with the same characteristics. Full of competitive, greedy no brainers who find a twisted pleasure in insulting people and behave like assholes. However i am optimistic...

    "Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others, it is the only means"

    While I agree some players are generally terrible, I think the Smite reference is a little inaccurate due to the random way in which players are thrown into groups.  The system supports such awful social situations.  However, due to the nature of MOBAs, it's forgivable in Smite.  In an MMO, there is no real excuse for such queues.

     

    MMOs are intended to be deep, lengthy, immersive experiences.  I don't mean to down the casual player, but where do you think "short," "easy," or "quick" fits into such a description?  How immersed can you get into a book by reading 4 pages of the 800 or so included in the novel?  How deeply immersive is a show when you watch 20 minutes of an hour-long episode  of a 12-episode season in one sitting?  How attached can you become to the world, its settings and characters, and their struggles in such a small window?

     

    My point being (and much hatred will probably be generated by this): MMOs aren't compatible with casual play.  By the very nature of what it originally meant to be an MMO, it took a larger time investment than singleplayer RPGs.  Time to develop acquaintances, friends, guilds.  Time to collect skills, spells, abilities, and equipment enough to elevate your character to the next adventure.  Time to pull together a band of warriors you knew were adept enough to tackle that dungeon.  Ones that, either by your own experiences or the experiences of someone whose opinion you trusted, weren't total pricks.

     

    Some may state that it's a hobby; they don't want to have to invest such time into a hobby.  But such a time investment is no different than another hobby.  Do you like to play sports?  Well, you can toss a ball up into the air by yourself and catch it many times in less than 5 minutes.  It's not nearly as much fun as playing the actual game, but it is playing.  You can then add a friend and toss the ball to one another.  More fun than by yourself, but you have to coordinate when you and your friend have free time, and so it takes a little more time and planning.  Then, on the other end of the spectrum, you can play actual full-fledged pickup games with a large group of people, maybe even in an organized tournament.  However, surprise surprise: that takes a significantly larger time investment and planning than does tossing the ball with your friend.  It should be no different in MMOs.

    image
  • MithrailMithrail Member Posts: 21
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by KJ30
    Originally posted by kizechs

    Gaming Then and Now....

    i attempted to play smite recently and having little moba experience it takes a bit of time to get things down, well in the learning process there is no helpful hints or understanding that your new to the game, so you have to endure the insults on a constant basis until you get good, and then prepare your self for more insults, once you get good your a kill stealer, a no-life low-life who lives with his mom ,this is a team based game?. and the all time low of lows apparently now you can be reported for not being good at the game...WOW!!!  I've heard the argument there are people that feed on purpose and i don't doubt it given the insults flying from your own team that someone would do that.

    so i have to ask,  what happened to gamers? 

    the problem lies in the fact that this new generation of gamers hasn't learned how to win or lose with grace and dignity, they haven't learned the concept of team work or team effort, they haven't learned how to give, help or support anyone but themselves and their own agenda's.  sure not all gamers are this way but it's certainly an ever growing community of them.

     

    I agree . Unfortunately the mmo community is a subgroup of the real world with the same characteristics. Full of competitive, greedy no brainers who find a twisted pleasure in insulting people and behave like assholes. However i am optimistic...

    "Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others, it is the only means"

    While I agree some players are generally terrible, I think the Smite reference is a little inaccurate due to the random way in which players are thrown into groups.  The system supports such awful social situations.  However, due to the nature of MOBAs, it's forgivable in Smite.  In an MMO, there is no real excuse for such queues.

     

    MMOs are intended to be deep, lengthy, immersive experiences.  I don't mean to down the casual player, but where do you think "short," "easy," or "quick" fits into such a description?  How immersed can you get into a book by reading 4 pages of the 800 or so included in the novel?  How deeply immersive is a show when you watch 20 minutes of an hour-long episode  of a 12-episode season in one sitting?  How attached can you become to the world, its settings and characters, and their struggles in such a small window?

     

    My point being (and much hatred will probably be generated by this): MMOs aren't compatible with casual play.  By the very nature of what it originally meant to be an MMO, it took a larger time investment than singleplayer RPGs.  Time to develop acquaintances, friends, guilds.  Time to collect skills, spells, abilities, and equipment enough to elevate your character to the next adventure.  Time to pull together a band of warriors you knew were adept enough to tackle that dungeon.  Ones that, either by your own experiences or the experiences of someone whose opinion you trusted, weren't total pricks.

     

    Some may state that it's a hobby; they don't want to have to invest such time into a hobby.  But such a time investment is no different than another hobby.  Do you like to play sports?  Well, you can toss a ball up into the air by yourself and catch it many times in less than 5 minutes.  It's not nearly as much fun as playing the actual game, but it is playing.  You can then add a friend and toss the ball to one another.  More fun than by yourself, but you have to coordinate when you and your friend have free time, and so it takes a little more time and planning.  Then, on the other end of the spectrum, you can play actual full-fledged pickup games with a large group of people, maybe even in an organized tournament.  However, surprise surprise: that takes a significantly larger time investment and planning than does tossing the ball with your friend.  It should be no different in MMOs.

    ^ This reflects my opinion perfectly. I was so glad to read your comment, I was reading comments going a bit angry inside.

    Not every MMO should be casual, not every MMO needs to be for EVERYONE. There can be MMOs for people who want to solo everything, just as there should be such for people who want something more.

    I've read through the first 30 pages only, and I guess the problem is that MMO developers want to make everyone and anyone happy. That's not gonna happen.... ever. So they should instead choose a target market - just like normal companies do. And then give those players a truly epic experience, give them a reason to throw money at you, instead of making everyones experience ... meh, and having everyone desert the game a couple of months after its release.

  • aattssaattss Member Posts: 40
    My own opinion is that it should be possible for someone to solo as much as the person wants and then interact with others whenever the person wants. Ideally speaking.
  • GramleyGramley Member UncommonPosts: 9

    In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

     

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920
    Originally posted by Gramley

    In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

     

    I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Originally posted by Gramley
    In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.  

    I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

     

    But in all fairness, it really should be. You're taking more time, putting forth more coordination, adding more variables. The reward should be higher.

    I'm not saying solo play should not be viable. By all means, if you detest groups, you can level to max rank and gather adequate equipment through solo play. But I think it silly to suggest this method of play in an MMO should be as efficient and rewarding (and I say that strictly referring to loot, not your personal enjoyment) as group play. You put forth less effort, less time, and do not deal with as many uncertain variables. As such, your reward should match your reduced risk. That just seems logical to me.

    image
  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect Member UncommonPosts: 1,243

    I always find the solo vs group thing quite silly really. If it wasn't for the WoWification of MMO's we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It's really simple - we play online games so we can play with or against other people. That's the whole point of making an online game, bringing multiple people together into a game world to shoot each other in the face or combine abilities to do amazing things. The trinity for example - DPS does loads of damage, Tank takes the danger away from the DPS and Healer, and the Healer keeps the Tank up. It's the combination of different roles coming together to face things that one person alone couldn't deal with.

    So this discussion about preferring to solo and everything should be available solo, to me, is just ridiculous. If you want to play alone then why are you jumping into an online game? Of course, because the current batch of MMO's allows it. So did the earlier MMO's in a lesser, more restricted way, but back then teamwork was the name of the game, as it should be with an online game.

  • GramleyGramley Member UncommonPosts: 9
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Gramley

    In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

     

    I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

    Over 60% ? where did you pull that figure from? the latest copy of MMO financial times? or as with other figures bandied about, did you just pluck it out of thin air?

    I'm not saying that soloing shouldn't be feasible, I'm saying that grouping should always reward (both exp & loot) better than soloing. If you want to log in and play for an hour due to time restraints but feel that you can't group in that time, then fine, solo away but don't expect to level up as quickly as the person who's able to grind it out for 4 hours at a time in a group.

    If you want an analogy from that blight on MMOs: WoW has 3 tiers of basic rewards (green, blue and purple), if you solo all the time, expect only green rewards, if you group expect blue rewards, if you raid expect purple rewards.

     

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Gramley

    In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

     

    I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

     

    But in all fairness, it really should be. You're taking more time, putting forth more coordination, adding more variables. The reward should be higher. I'm not saying solo play should not be viable. By all means, if you detest groups, you can level to max rank and gather adequate equipment through solo play. But I think it silly to suggest this method of play in an MMO should be as efficient and rewarding (and I say that strictly referring to loot, not your personal enjoyment) as group play. You put forth less effort, less time, and do not deal with as many uncertain variables. As such, your reward should match your reduced risk. That just seems logical to me.

    The reward should even out to be the same, but you're right, that should take into account time spent to gather a group and coordinate, so xp should probably be slightly faster once you get started, but not so fast that you leave solo players in the dust.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Gramley

    In an MMO I'm of the opinion that grouping should always be the quickest, most efficient way of doing things. Levelling up could be done solo but at a much slower pace than grouping, same with faction farming. The best gear should always only be available to people who group.

     

    I'm of the opinion that this is a good way to first irritate, then drive away over %60 of gamers (the percentage who solo).  So basically, financial suicide.

     

    But in all fairness, it really should be. You're taking more time, putting forth more coordination, adding more variables. The reward should be higher. I'm not saying solo play should not be viable. By all means, if you detest groups, you can level to max rank and gather adequate equipment through solo play. But I think it silly to suggest this method of play in an MMO should be as efficient and rewarding (and I say that strictly referring to loot, not your personal enjoyment) as group play. You put forth less effort, less time, and do not deal with as many uncertain variables. As such, your reward should match your reduced risk. That just seems logical to me.

    The reward should even out to be the same, but you're right, that should take into account time spent to gather a group and coordinate, so xp should probably be slightly faster once you get started, but not so fast that you leave solo players in the dust.

    Agreed.  To me, it should simply be a difference in potential.  A really good group can level you substantially faster than solo play, but a bad one can slow you down past the rate at which you would progress solo.  Risk vs. reward again.  That's a delicate balance, and I haven't seen an MMO pull it off in a while.  The next time it does, I'll have found a home for my MMO itch again.

    image
  • gideonvaldesgideonvaldes Member Posts: 148
    Well when it comes on playing MMO, I prefer soloing at the first part, however, as level goes up, monsters also goes harder than the first one forcing me to switch into gruop play (maybe common for MMO's). Most especially when it comes to boss hunts and guild wards (whatsoever they called it in other games). 
  • yahairayahaira Member Posts: 1
    Originally posted by Addieu

    Sometimes I like to play solo - because sadly in a lot of MMO's its the most rewarding profile.

    But I think MMORPG's should be 90% team play. That;s what for those games are - to be able to interact and play with other people. When playing all alone why not just play a PC solo game.

    There's a time for everything. People play single player games for a reason, right?

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