The game is one and a half month old and you're talking about end game..
That's the real problem.
I'm a casual gamer too. I play maybe 3 hours here and there a night. Not every day. So, I don't know what you mean by that? That I leveled to fast or that it doesn't take long to reach that?
I mean it takes way too little time to reach level cap. Not only in ESO but almost every MMO released post 2010.
It doesn't matter if you're a casual or hardcore, no one should be even close to level cap by now. Your free month has barely ended and people are already capped and doing end game. Bad game design, imo.
Why is it bad design. How do you counter people that will cap level within a month, threating the game as just another online game.
With themepark games I have found my niche and that's alts', got 4 characters 2 levels 15, 1 level 13 and a level 12 and want them all to go to level 20, from then on decide which I really like best. So far undecited....
I play the game like I play ES games so I take my time. To me not bad gamedesign if the game lets me do this.
This game launched with 300+ hours of content. If you played through to VR10 in 6 weeks that's 50 hours / week for a game. This is not "light" or "normal" playing. This is more hours of things to do than virtually every other game at launch.
You may not like what it is. You may skip through or ignore most of it. But to pretend that this game didn't launch with hundreds of hours of things to do is just false.
I have played steadily and haven't yet finished one of the factions. I will have four months of gaming - not casual gaming; as in, 20 - 25 hours a week of gaming for **four months** here. Complaining that this is not enough at launch is not reasonable.
Actually Bioware said in an interview that people ON AVG were putting in 40 hours a week(and up to 120 in some cases) in the first 2 months of swtor. so in a sense 50hrs a week is really only slightly above normal.
Originally posted by Carnicide So you're telling me that forcing us to do all 3 zones was their way of holding us back while they make an actual end game?
This is what it feels like to me. Especially with them removing xp for exploration and opening chests. At least half of my guild has disappeared and some of the people that were on last night were grumbling about this as we were in a group grinding out those bosses and dolmens to level.
The consensus seemed to be what you are saying here.
They were also not happy with the way phasing works when people just want to group any time, any where, with any one. Seems like phasing makes that difficult and somewhat annoying.
Increasing the XP from mobs sounds dumber then just lowering what you need to get a new VR level...
But then again, that is me who feel that the VR thing isn't so great from the beginning and makes playing alts a chore. I rather do all zones from each faction with a characterfrom that faction instead of everything in the game with a single.
I agree. I find it especially stupid when I have to do quests killing my own faction. Doing that should make you actually change your faction and become a traitor trusted by no one.
They obviously pushed the game to release WAY too early. But I think 1.1 will bring the changes most people are looking for, or at least will be a move in the right direction. I am trying not to see the game as it is now (a fun 1-50 experience) and instead will wait to see what changes 1.1 brings which will hopefully allow people to see Craglorn without taking up ESO as a second career.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
VR15 is around the corner.....just check the Craglorn movie at the 4 min mark :P Happy camping !
I think they do so much damage with this design......level 50 should have been it. Open the game for everyone, that means dungeons / raids / trials / pvp.
I dont know what they are smoking or if they even realise what a fail design this is... I quited when i had a VR5 and a VR2...but that quest grind became so tedious..... And then i saw VR15 is not far away i was like, you got to be kidding me.....
Their game their vision. But it was a deal breaker for me the moment i saw that video -_-
If that's the case, I will be out. That's just like moving the goal posts back. It makes me feel like cutting my losses. I'm pretty sure just about all the rest of the remaining eso players in my guild will be gone, too, given the mood in the last few days since more people have been hitting VR.
Especially with them removing xp for exploration and opening chests.
Wait... what? I don't even...
Did they do this already or they plan to? What will happen to those armor traits that give exploration XP?
Its a bad trend anyway and 'play the way i like it' has turned into' play the way devs say it'.
I'm outta here, no more money for you Zenimax.
The exploration trait is useless in VR content. No xp for exploration and chests is in effect now and they haven't mentioned changing it as far as I know.
What's with this rush to be max level when there is nothing there waiting for you other than a burn out?
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It took around 90 days at 2-3h a day to level your first character in FFXI to max level with a fully usable sub-job. That's if you where totally focused and had help on the way for the level cap missions and other quests that you need on the way.
----
It meant something to be max level - most of all it meant you know how to play your job and you like it since no one invests this much time just to suck.
Reaching end game was an achievement and the end game was fantastic.
----
Take your time and enjoy the game. There is nothing waiting for you at max level other than disappointment.
I must be nuts, because I like the slower leveling of the VR content. I thought 1-50 flew by too fast. I am personally sick of the fast leveling most games offer these days. You only talk about mob xp, what about the quest xp? I level appropriately in each VR zone by doing the content provided and gain one VR level per zone. I am not saying your wrong, but if this is such a big issue for you then maybe this game isnt for you.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
What's with this rush to be max level when there is nothing there waiting for you other than a burn out?
----
It took around 90 days at 2-3h a day to level your first character in FFXI to max level with a fully usable sub-job. That's if you where totally focused and had help on the way for the level cap missions and other quests that you need on the way.
----
It meant something to be max level - most of all it meant you know how to play your job and you like it since no one invests this much time just to suck.
Reaching end game was an achievement and the end game was fantastic.
----
Take your time and enjoy the game. There is nothing waiting for you at max level other than disappointment.
Different times, and even "modern ways" found it's way into FFXI. Yes, it took months earlier to reach the cap, and unless you were a BM, it would require a full group all the way from aorund lvl 10-15 to 75. But they changed it, so anyone can now solo to max in a fraction of the time it took with a full group. This change came because players REQUIRED it, no surprise since certain classes (ie DRG) had extreme problems finding groups. But it's also a sign of change to a different time, with different demands. The release of WoW most certainly had an effect here.
Your comparison is a poor one. First, it's no longer valid, as already explained. Second, reaching max lvl in FFXI didn't just open an endless repetition of what you've already done, it opened far more new content.
I believe the reason people wanna reach endgame quickly, is that typically there's whrere the different options are. The "race" is usually quests and maybe a few dungeons, and people wanna reach the point with more options, which usually means end game / level cap. If reaching the cap in ESO only opens new levels, with longer/harder grinds, I doubt this game will maintain a large enough amount of subscribers to survive for very long.
I believe the reason people wanna reach endgame quickly, is that typically there's whrere the different options are. The "race" is usually quests and maybe a few dungeons, and people wanna reach the point with more options, which usually means end game / level cap. If reaching the cap in ESO only opens new levels, with longer/harder grinds, I doubt this game will maintain a large enough amount of subscribers to survive for very long.
Exactly. My guild came to this game because of the AvA. This seemed like a major advertising point. We want to reach max and pvp in Cyrodiil as our main activity. But the game is really something else. It is the true *Everquest* in the literal sense of that word. If we could level more effectively in AvA without just being fodder for VR10s that live there now, I'm sure we would have a lot more fun.
Questing can be enjoyable, but it just feels like a chore after a while if that's not your primary reason for playing ESO. That is not just my opinion, but the sentiment of most of the guild members who still play. I don't know what most of the other guild members think because they don't play any more. This seems to support your last sentence and it is also what I have feared since I hit VR 1 and realized what was happening. With VR 12 and then 15 looming, I'm not sure I will stick around for all that Craglorn questing if AvA xp isn't boosted significantly. I'm pretty sure my remaining guild members will move on as well.
If someone says, "maybe this game isn't for you," that's fine and it may be true, but that won't help ZOS or anyone who wants to play in AvA, which it seemed was the center of this game. If AvA flops, then ESO flops. They won't be able to keep up generating new and interesting content to keep subscribers, especially with a dwindling player base.
Originally posted by Loke666Increasing the XP from mobs sounds dumber then just lowering what you need to get a new VR level...But then again, that is me who feel that the VR thing isn't so great from the beginning and makes playing alts a chore. I rather do all zones from each faction with a characterfrom that faction instead of everything in the game with a single.
I agree. I find it especially stupid when I have to do quests killing my own faction. Doing that should make you actually change your faction and become a traitor trusted by no one.
This is the most important point! Playing the other two factions makes absolutely no sense!
Quit when I found out I'd have to do all 3 factions areas with 1 character. That's the whole point in 3 factions, so you can roll alts and try something different. Being able to do it all on 1 character took away the entire reason for factions. They may aswell just have made it like lotro, no factions and you can join cyrodil to PvP for the sake of it. As it stands the factions just seem pointless to me
I am the Arch-fiend, the Despoiler of Worlds, and by my hands shall the false Emperor fall.
VR15 is around the corner.....just check the Craglorn movie at the 4 min mark :P Happy camping !
I think they do so much damage with this design......level 50 should have been it. Open the game for everyone, that means dungeons / raids / trials / pvp.
I dont know what they are smoking or if they even realise what a fail design this is... I quited when i had a VR5 and a VR2...but that quest grind became so tedious..... And then i saw VR15 is not far away i was like, you got to be kidding me.....
Their game their vision. But it was a deal breaker for me the moment i saw that video -_-
Are you serious! we don't need this many lvls! common zenimax.
Lol...they are serious....this is the regular and high quality content updates that they charge you a sub for
Where IS that first content update anyway? WHY is not released? It's past the 4 - 6 week cycle that the devs and particularly some of the fans have championed as a MAJOR reason that the sub fee is justified.....because they will be providing high quality content updates on a 4 - 6 week cycle....
That does not seem to be the case. If they have missed their FIRST content milestone release, however is anyone to expect them on time in future?
Not only you are forced to go through all the leveling zones but you end up fighting against your own faction by doing other faction zone's quests. Pretty stupid, no other way to put it. Even the way they present you an excuse to go quest in those other faction zones is so shallow and forced.
What's worse is that all of this veteran rank questing is acting like a soft gate for you to take a loooooooooooong time to reach level veteran 10, so they can have time to release new content.
Basically Zenimax released an unfinished product full of bugs and no european server, provided only one way to level up your character through questing alone, made the most single player experience a MMO has ever seen and all of this for full box price + 15 dollars a month.
If it had endgame content to keep people occupied and giving it a sense of longevity, people would actually feel the game would go somewhere. But no, the game released with no endgame and the promised endgame patch that has been one year in the making is falling behind schedule. That's worrying for the future content releases and the game itself.
A MMO releasing with no endgame in 2014 is absurd. It should be expected that companies that take a huge financial risk in making MMO's would learn from the mistakes of other MMO companies. Not Zenimax though. This felt like SWTOR all over again, big promises and little deliverance.
I would like to see them turn this situation around since they created such a beautiful world, they just need to make it a fun game. How will they make it fun is unknown since the way they designed the game from ground up feels anti-MMO with all the phasing and PVE-only experience. I can say this much though, horse racing is not the solution!
End game is always an issue, TESO is better than most but in its own way. It is not trying to go down the multiple types of pvp with dailies route. It is trying to develop a keep taking pvp zone with 3 factions. This has not been done before, it is similar to DAOC but not the same. The format suffers as you don't do much pvp until end game, though some may see that as an advantage. It also puts a lot of weight on one gaming system, I see the adventure zone as an alterative to raiding, which is the more traditional end game add on.
I am a little short of VR2 and do enjoy the opportunity provided by the VR levels to "relive" my character's life in each of the factions. I actually think that this is a neat idea, but I like questing.
I also like the opportunity to run the dungeons set to a higher level of difficulty than the 1-50 experience.
As far as I am concerned, I will be happy if they continue to add levels with additional quest and dungeon content as often as they can. I am also looking forward to Craglorn for the larger group content.
(I read that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood will be added in the near future and do look forward to these quest lines),
They obviously pushed the game to release WAY too early. But I think 1.1 will bring the changes most people are looking for, or at least will be a move in the right direction. I am trying not to see the game as it is now (a fun 1-50 experience) and instead will wait to see what changes 1.1 brings which will hopefully allow people to see Craglorn without taking up ESO as a second career.
MMO developers need to stop this. Release a complete game or postpone launch. At least ESO realized this for the console launch, but it is too late for the PC launch. I might come back, but I doubt it, they should have given me a better first impression.
Proclaiming it PVP game then forcing PVPers to grind out VR levels PVEing was retarded too.
Comments
So what you're saying then is you fell for it?
Call it a learning experience - a teachable moment brought to you buy ESO!!!
Why is it bad design. How do you counter people that will cap level within a month, threating the game as just another online game.
With themepark games I have found my niche and that's alts', got 4 characters 2 levels 15, 1 level 13 and a level 12 and want them all to go to level 20, from then on decide which I really like best. So far undecited....
I play the game like I play ES games so I take my time. To me not bad gamedesign if the game lets me do this.
Actually Bioware said in an interview that people ON AVG were putting in 40 hours a week(and up to 120 in some cases) in the first 2 months of swtor. so in a sense 50hrs a week is really only slightly above normal.
This is what it feels like to me. Especially with them removing xp for exploration and opening chests. At least half of my guild has disappeared and some of the people that were on last night were grumbling about this as we were in a group grinding out those bosses and dolmens to level.
The consensus seemed to be what you are saying here.
They were also not happy with the way phasing works when people just want to group any time, any where, with any one. Seems like phasing makes that difficult and somewhat annoying.
I agree. I find it especially stupid when I have to do quests killing my own faction. Doing that should make you actually change your faction and become a traitor trusted by no one.
I am going to hold my official review until 1.1
They obviously pushed the game to release WAY too early. But I think 1.1 will bring the changes most people are looking for, or at least will be a move in the right direction. I am trying not to see the game as it is now (a fun 1-50 experience) and instead will wait to see what changes 1.1 brings which will hopefully allow people to see Craglorn without taking up ESO as a second career.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Wait... what? I don't even...
Did they do this already or they plan to? What will happen to those armor traits that give exploration XP?
Its a bad trend anyway and 'play the way i like it' has turned into' play the way devs say it'.
I'm outta here, no more money for you Zenimax.
If that's the case, I will be out. That's just like moving the goal posts back. It makes me feel like cutting my losses. I'm pretty sure just about all the rest of the remaining eso players in my guild will be gone, too, given the mood in the last few days since more people have been hitting VR.
The exploration trait is useless in VR content. No xp for exploration and chests is in effect now and they haven't mentioned changing it as far as I know.
What's with this rush to be max level when there is nothing there waiting for you other than a burn out?
----
It took around 90 days at 2-3h a day to level your first character in FFXI to max level with a fully usable sub-job. That's if you where totally focused and had help on the way for the level cap missions and other quests that you need on the way.
----
It meant something to be max level - most of all it meant you know how to play your job and you like it since no one invests this much time just to suck.
Reaching end game was an achievement and the end game was fantastic.
----
Take your time and enjoy the game. There is nothing waiting for you at max level other than disappointment.
I must be nuts, because I like the slower leveling of the VR content. I thought 1-50 flew by too fast. I am personally sick of the fast leveling most games offer these days. You only talk about mob xp, what about the quest xp? I level appropriately in each VR zone by doing the content provided and gain one VR level per zone. I am not saying your wrong, but if this is such a big issue for you then maybe this game isnt for you.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Different times, and even "modern ways" found it's way into FFXI. Yes, it took months earlier to reach the cap, and unless you were a BM, it would require a full group all the way from aorund lvl 10-15 to 75. But they changed it, so anyone can now solo to max in a fraction of the time it took with a full group. This change came because players REQUIRED it, no surprise since certain classes (ie DRG) had extreme problems finding groups. But it's also a sign of change to a different time, with different demands. The release of WoW most certainly had an effect here.
Your comparison is a poor one. First, it's no longer valid, as already explained. Second, reaching max lvl in FFXI didn't just open an endless repetition of what you've already done, it opened far more new content.
I believe the reason people wanna reach endgame quickly, is that typically there's whrere the different options are. The "race" is usually quests and maybe a few dungeons, and people wanna reach the point with more options, which usually means end game / level cap. If reaching the cap in ESO only opens new levels, with longer/harder grinds, I doubt this game will maintain a large enough amount of subscribers to survive for very long.
Exactly. My guild came to this game because of the AvA. This seemed like a major advertising point. We want to reach max and pvp in Cyrodiil as our main activity. But the game is really something else. It is the true *Everquest* in the literal sense of that word. If we could level more effectively in AvA without just being fodder for VR10s that live there now, I'm sure we would have a lot more fun.
Questing can be enjoyable, but it just feels like a chore after a while if that's not your primary reason for playing ESO. That is not just my opinion, but the sentiment of most of the guild members who still play. I don't know what most of the other guild members think because they don't play any more. This seems to support your last sentence and it is also what I have feared since I hit VR 1 and realized what was happening. With VR 12 and then 15 looming, I'm not sure I will stick around for all that Craglorn questing if AvA xp isn't boosted significantly. I'm pretty sure my remaining guild members will move on as well.
If someone says, "maybe this game isn't for you," that's fine and it may be true, but that won't help ZOS or anyone who wants to play in AvA, which it seemed was the center of this game. If AvA flops, then ESO flops. They won't be able to keep up generating new and interesting content to keep subscribers, especially with a dwindling player base.
This is the most important point! Playing the other two factions makes absolutely no sense!
I am the Arch-fiend, the Despoiler of Worlds, and by my hands shall the false Emperor fall.
Lol...they are serious....this is the regular and high quality content updates that they charge you a sub for
Where IS that first content update anyway? WHY is not released? It's past the 4 - 6 week cycle that the devs and particularly some of the fans have championed as a MAJOR reason that the sub fee is justified.....because they will be providing high quality content updates on a 4 - 6 week cycle....
That does not seem to be the case. If they have missed their FIRST content milestone release, however is anyone to expect them on time in future?
Not only you are forced to go through all the leveling zones but you end up fighting against your own faction by doing other faction zone's quests. Pretty stupid, no other way to put it. Even the way they present you an excuse to go quest in those other faction zones is so shallow and forced.
What's worse is that all of this veteran rank questing is acting like a soft gate for you to take a loooooooooooong time to reach level veteran 10, so they can have time to release new content.
Basically Zenimax released an unfinished product full of bugs and no european server, provided only one way to level up your character through questing alone, made the most single player experience a MMO has ever seen and all of this for full box price + 15 dollars a month.
If it had endgame content to keep people occupied and giving it a sense of longevity, people would actually feel the game would go somewhere. But no, the game released with no endgame and the promised endgame patch that has been one year in the making is falling behind schedule. That's worrying for the future content releases and the game itself.
A MMO releasing with no endgame in 2014 is absurd. It should be expected that companies that take a huge financial risk in making MMO's would learn from the mistakes of other MMO companies. Not Zenimax though. This felt like SWTOR all over again, big promises and little deliverance.
I would like to see them turn this situation around since they created such a beautiful world, they just need to make it a fun game. How will they make it fun is unknown since the way they designed the game from ground up feels anti-MMO with all the phasing and PVE-only experience. I can say this much though, horse racing is not the solution!
I am a little short of VR2 and do enjoy the opportunity provided by the VR levels to "relive" my character's life in each of the factions. I actually think that this is a neat idea, but I like questing.
I also like the opportunity to run the dungeons set to a higher level of difficulty than the 1-50 experience.
As far as I am concerned, I will be happy if they continue to add levels with additional quest and dungeon content as often as they can. I am also looking forward to Craglorn for the larger group content.
(I read that the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood will be added in the near future and do look forward to these quest lines),
Sounds to me like you missed the point. Leveling, then VR leveling shouldn't be almost ALL the contents.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
MMO developers need to stop this. Release a complete game or postpone launch. At least ESO realized this for the console launch, but it is too late for the PC launch. I might come back, but I doubt it, they should have given me a better first impression.
Proclaiming it PVP game then forcing PVPers to grind out VR levels PVEing was retarded too.