Not at all. Infact, if all you wanted to do is craft, SWTOR has NO wall there for free players. You can craft any Item available. It may take a bit longer as a free player, but what is your rush? There is no competition in crafting in SWTOR.
Pssst. Hey, let's pretend for a moment that crafters should want to... oh, I don't know, actually sell what they craft. Ludicrous, you're thinking, but bear with me. Can you not see how, if this were true, crafters might actually be in -direct- competition with each other? The ease of crafting via companions actually makes competition more harsh as supply rises.
In this crazy world of limited demand, F2P crafters (restricted to only 2 slots on the GTC against a sub's 50) who don't have the option of diversifying their products will never be able to consistently compete in any market of the game versus a sub player who decides to undercut them. The inability to do so, barring any external factors, is what leads some people to claim p2w.
There should also be a consideration for plausibility. Yes, a f2p player could create the same items as a sub, however only via buying mats off the GTC since you can only have 1 crew skill (2 w/ preferred) and can't mail mats from alts. Not only does this cut into your already depleted profit margins, it closes certain markets to you altogether. Not something most people who are solely there to "make stuff" would put up with.
The alternative, (cartel unlocks) goes for more creds on most servers than a f2p account can actually hold...
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Now I'm not saying this is wrong (they don't HAVE to allow you anything for free). Misleading, yes. SWTOR isn't advertised as a free trial and yet you can't be competitive in pve, pvp, or professions without spending $$.
My point is that while you have the option to jump through all the tedious, ridiculous hurdles Bioware has implemented, if you were 100% set against paying money, it would be much easier to just get a $15 amazon gift card balance through online rewards programs every month and spend the money on the damn subscription code there than it would be to actually craft as f2p. It would certainly result in less headaches at the very least.
Can't speak for others, I skipped the xp because I think it's in the unlockable category, and for that I listed the more pathetic ones, like title display and unify colors (xp is sort of unlockable, there are xp boosts, and guild membership also giving 5-10% xp boost)
And for the same reason Turbine is not even close to TOR, because both LotRO and DDO can be unlocked fully, while TOR will have a lot of restrictions even if you spend a smaller fortune on the game. Turbine is the classical version, I agree with that, but TOR is not, TOR is below that. Classical version was: removing the entry barrier, and take the player's money via different ways, but the end result is the same gameplay.
In LotRO you can have the same gameplay as vips if you buy everything, and you can even cherry-pick and pay for only those you want to play. In TOR, even if you buy every unlock for the whole account, you'll be restricted compared to a subscriber. That's not classical f2p, that's not even f2p in its entirety.
Oh, and don't even go to the TP earning area, LotRO can be unlocked for free with simply playing the game, in TOR you also can earn CC's with the Legacy revamp, but it's so little amount it's almost close to none.
Originally posted by Elevenb4 It's always cracks me up when people complain about the free stuff being offered by a company. Especially when you can get it all for $15. Complaining about limitations of the free side when to get it all costs $15...... I just dont' understand people. We used to call them cheapskates. The game is a great game. I'm not even playing it atm, but I'm subbing because I enjoy supporting the game.
I totally agree! It's fricken .50 cents a day! Don't eat a Twinky or have one less Mountain Dew.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Not at all. Infact, if all you wanted to do is craft, SWTOR has NO wall there for free players. You can craft any Item available. It may take a bit longer as a free player, but what is your rush? There is no competition in crafting in SWTOR.
Pssst. Hey, let's pretend for a moment that crafters should want to... oh, I don't know, actually sell what they craft. Ludicrous, you're thinking, but bear with me. Can you not see how, if this were true, crafters might actually be in -direct- competition with each other? The ease of crafting via companions actually makes competition more harsh as supply rises.
In this crazy world of limited demand, F2P crafters (restricted to only 2 slots on the GTC against a sub's 50) who don't have the option of diversifying their products will never be able to consistently compete in any market of the game versus a sub player who decides to undercut them. The inability to do so, barring any external factors, is what leads some people to claim p2w.
There should also be a consideration for plausibility. Yes, a f2p player could create the same items as a sub, however only via buying mats off the GTC since you can only have 1 crew skill (2 w/ preferred) and can't mail mats from alts. Not only does this cut into your already depleted profit margins, it closes certain markets to you altogether. Not something most people who are solely there to "make stuff" would put up with.
The alternative, (cartel unlocks) goes for more creds on most servers than a f2p account can actually hold...
-
Now I'm not saying this is wrong (they don't HAVE to allow you anything for free). Misleading, yes. SWTOR isn't advertised as a free trial and yet you can't be competitive in pve, pvp, or professions without spending $$.
My point is that while you have the option to jump through all the tedious, ridiculous hurdles Bioware has implemented, if you were 100% set against paying money, it would be much easier to just get a $15 amazon gift card balance through online rewards programs every month and spend the money on the damn subscription code there than it would be to actually craft as f2p. It would certainly result in less headaches at the very least.
Have you played SWTOR? You don't make money from crafting. Free players that are logging in to craft can make anything they want. You can't do it as fast as a subscribed player? Too bad. SWTOR was built to make money. The fact that they give you so much of the game for free is pretty outstanding. People playing a game for free should not attempt to be competitive, as that is a perk of subscribing.
I am subbed two accounts. Well you have the cheek to complain really .The whole class stories the main part of this game,given to you for free. Really how greedy can you get. You want more sub like I do .
Have you played SWTOR? You don't make money from crafting.
'course you do. Cybertech mods for orange/cartel gear are still in high demand at all tiers despite the changes to commendations, biochem adrenals still sell well for pvp/raiding, salvage/UWT can be pretty lucrative at certain levels and slicing/treasure hunting have always been profitable for schematics.
The simple fact that you can't have all crew skills on a single character and people are, as a rule, lazy means there's a demand for all of them. The fact that f2p'ers can't take advantage of that demand is sort of the purpose of this thread =/
By that fact that you're arguing whether its right or not means you admit there is an issue to begin with. And that is, if you want to be a crafter, Bioware has shown, f2p is not a feasible option for you. I'm fine with that, just be practical about it.
Some cheapskates won't be happy until they can have everything for nothing which eliminates the whole point of subs.If $15 dollars a month is too much for you then I'd say it's time to focus on more important things than gaming.
I don't think you get a reduced chance of RE'ing an item if your not a subscriber, afaik, its always been, for green items a 20% chance, with some blue items only being 10%. I've mastered almost all the different crafts now, and i must admit that 10% chance to RE some items is a real hindrance, though why some blues are only 10% and others 20% i have absolutely no idea, and yes, i am a subscriber.
The main benefits of being a subscriber is not having any 'restrictions' on your play, from Space missions - dubious at best i admit as the space game is still imo, the weakest part of the game, and the new Starfighter thing is not really much of an improvement if any.
No item restrictions, subscribers can freely use purple items/mods, F2P without the unlock are limited to blues, which might not seem like much, but the difference it makes to the effective 'level' of an item is immense, green items are level neutral, blues are effectively green items with a +2 level advantage, purples a +4 level advantage over green, you need to be able to use purple items to compete in end game PVP and Operations etc so while blues are perfectly fine during levelling, once you are max level you need to have purple modded gear, but then if you are a F2P player you have to buy access to those on a weekly basis anyway, if you want to do it more than a couple of times in a week, technically, you could save money by just levelling up while F2P and then subbing once you reach max level for the end game content, though really you would miss out on a lot during that process and it would be a time consuming grind at times.
Trading, F2P players have restrictions on the amount of cash they can own in their wallets, and how many trades they can have, if any, on the GTN, they also cannot mail cash/items afaik.
All in all, to me the F2P option is more like a super extended free trial of the game. It allows you to really find out whether you want to not only play the game long term, but whether you would want to play it enough that subbing would open up more character slots in the game so that you can enjoy the rest of the storylines - you get 2 character slots as F2P, not sure about preferred, but as a sub you get 10 per server, F2P just get 2 overall. I would prefer to see more games use this type of F2P/P2P hybrid, if only because it would mean i don't have to gamble so much on buying new games, or wait to see how they turn out through youtube lets play videos etc. If ESO had this type of thing i would probably have tried it, but given what i've seen of it so far, i wouldn't risk money on it, as there is a pretty good chance i wouldn't like it, if it had a F2P/P2P hybrid - without the box price of course, then i think a great many other people who are on the fence with it would maybe give it a try, though i can imagine that probably applies to quite a few games out there, Wildstar included.
Have you played SWTOR? You don't make money from crafting.
'course you do. Cybertech mods for orange/cartel gear are still in high demand at all tiers despite the changes to commendations, biochem adrenals still sell well for pvp/raiding, salvage/UWT can be pretty lucrative at certain levels and slicing/treasure hunting have always been profitable for schematics.
The simple fact that you can't have all crew skills on a single character and people are, as a rule, lazy means there's a demand for all of them. The fact that f2p'ers can't take advantage of that demand is sort of the purpose of this thread =/
By that fact that you're arguing whether its right or not means you admit there is an issue to begin with. And that is, if you want to be a crafter, Bioware has shown, f2p is not a feasible option for you. I'm fine with that, just be practical about it.
Not just Cybertech, but Armstech Armsmech, and artifice also, as the high end mods are always in demand. Armstech can, eventually make the level 156 barrels (purple 53's) making 55's is problematic and something i have never done, but even making blues/purples for lower levels - mostly blues, is very lucrative, the same with hilts from artifice, lot of force users out there want the best hilts for their sabers that they can get, and again purple 53's are expensive, as are purple 53 enhancements, and the various augments.
Originally posted by Gorwe And everyone here so casually forgot to mention that as a f2p/"prefered" you get only 80% xp. This is one of those unliftable things.
I mean, there are obviously two Freemium models out there currently:
-> Classical(Turbine games, swtor etc):
It basically revolves around the fact that if you don't sub, you'll be flogged with limitations. Slower xp, broken crafting, limited zones etc is what you can expect in this model. Basically, the elite model.
-> Modern(Aion, TERA, Rift, revised AoC etc):
This one, otoh, revolves around the want of gamers to support their game's devs. Why would anyone want to do that??? Well, because they show you the game(without almost any limits) and if the game agrees with you, you'll naturally want to support it. B2P would go here as well(all three of those :P). The liberal model.
We gamers want the second one(naturally). The devs want the first one(also naturally). The friction here is obvious. There has got to be middle ground
Dont speak for me. And dont put Turbine in with SWTOR, their models are by far the worst out there and in a league of their own.
Turbine is 'sub doesnt even get you everything' model. EQ2 and SWTOR are ideal in my eyes. Once you are subbed, you can forget you are playing a f2p game. however you can play for hundreds of hours in either game as f2p and do just fine. But i strongly feel f2p players should feel like second class citizens, because the more sub revenue a developer gets the less they have to lean on the cash shop impacting the game experience for subbers.
Rift sounds ideal on paper, but you are reminded of the fact Trion wants more money every time you go to a vendor and get a giant cash shop that takes up 3/4 of your screen, even if you are a subber. Its intrusive to immersion. You also have things like selling high quality gear in Rift.
People are greedy bastards though, on both sides. I think players are actually more greedy than the developers though. Ive seen people complaining about Rift charging for the new souls. They are 100% non essential to the game, and Trion has to make money somewhere. People seem to not care that developers need money to keep actively developing.
Originally posted by Gorwe And everyone here so casually forgot to mention that as a f2p/"prefered" you get only 80% xp. This is one of those unliftable things.
I mean, there are obviously two Freemium models out there currently:
-> Classical(Turbine games, swtor etc):
It basically revolves around the fact that if you don't sub, you'll be flogged with limitations. Slower xp, broken crafting, limited zones etc is what you can expect in this model. Basically, the elite model.
-> Modern(Aion, TERA, Rift, revised AoC etc):
This one, otoh, revolves around the want of gamers to support their game's devs. Why would anyone want to do that??? Well, because they show you the game(without almost any limits) and if the game agrees with you, you'll naturally want to support it. B2P would go here as well(all three of those :P). The liberal model.
We gamers want the second one(naturally). The devs want the first one(also naturally). The friction here is obvious. There has got to be middle ground
Dont speak for me. And dont put Turbine in with SWTOR, their models are by far the worst out there and in a league of their own.
Turbine is 'sub doesnt even get you everything' model. EQ2 and SWTOR are ideal in my eyes. Once you are subbed, you can forget you are playing a f2p game. however you can play for hundreds of hours in either game as f2p and do just fine. But i strongly feel f2p players should feel like second class citizens, because the more sub revenue a developer gets the less they have to lean on the cash shop impacting the game experience for subbers.
Rift sounds ideal on paper, but you are reminded of the fact Trion wants more money every time you go to a vendor and get a giant cash shop that takes up 3/4 of your screen, even if you are a subber. Its intrusive to immersion. You also have things like selling high quality gear in Rift.
People are greedy bastards though, on both sides. I think players are actually more greedy than the developers though. Ive seen people complaining about Rift charging for the new souls. They are 100% non essential to the game, and Trion has to make money somewhere. People seem to not care that developers need money to keep actively developing.
STO is pretty bad about that too. You're reminded of its FTP status every time you loot or every few minutes when a "Captain Moroon has just aquired grand ship" flashes on your screen. The only time I'm reminded of TOR's FTP is when I get the monthly cartel coins email. I can use the coins for cool quality of life improvments which is nice.
Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.
I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed.
Oh well...makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.
haha, again with pay 2 win.
Dude, you get an endless free trial. That's what this is. You can't expect to get the full game with no limitations for free!
I just logged out of SWTOR few mins ago and everything in there screams if you want a full unlimited experience - subscribe... and that's ok, because I can go trough the whole game without spending a coin, but then if I want to be able to play dungeons all day or equip end game gear or play pvp all day - I have to subscribe or buy the passes trough the shop. Makes sence
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
There will always be players that does not spend anything that screams "GIVE ME MOOOOOORE"
If someone wants to try the game for free it is fine but to be able to play that much as SWTOR does, if something is dumb it is that.
It is also fun to read how many players gets confused regarding pay2win
Pay 2 win is when a Free 2 Play game is a farce. Penalizing players with ninja nerfs behind the scenes is a farce. They should man-up and state instead of trying to nerf you behind your back. That's a cowards way out.
Free 2 Play games have micro-transactions that allow Free 2 Play players to enjoy the game on their level and unlock only what they need. There's no way to unlock 20% schematic research.
This game is a farce. They created Free to Play as a publicity stunt and never intended to implement it. It will fall with the next Star Wars MMO harder than SWG.
There will always be players that does not spend anything that screams "GIVE ME MOOOOOORE"
If someone wants to try the game for free it is fine but to be able to play that much as SWTOR does, if something is dumb it is that.
It is also fun to read how many players gets confused regarding pay2win
Pay 2 win is when a Free 2 Play game is a farce. Penalizing players with ninja nerfs behind the scenes is a farce. They should man-up and state instead of trying to nerf you behind your back. That's a cowards way out.
Free 2 Play games have micro-transactions that allow Free 2 Play players to enjoy the game on their level and unlock only what they need. There's no way to unlock 20% schematic research.
This game is a farce. They created Free to Play as a publicity stunt and never intended to implement it. It will fall with the next Star Wars MMO harder than SWG.
It's why people call games like that freemium. These games are not designed to have every mmo parasite on the market leaching off it. If you want to play it you either pay the sub or accept the rather large limitations.
It's a rather popular payment model with people who want a p2p game but their game of choice switched to f2p
Originally posted by Gorwe And everyone here so casually forgot to mention that as a f2p/"prefered" you get only 80% xp. This is one of those unliftable things.
I mean, there are obviously two Freemium models out there currently:
-> Classical(Turbine games, swtor etc):
It basically revolves around the fact that if you don't sub, you'll be flogged with limitations. Slower xp, broken crafting, limited zones etc is what you can expect in this model. Basically, the elite model.
-> Modern(Aion, TERA, Rift, revised AoC etc):
This one, otoh, revolves around the want of gamers to support their game's devs. Why would anyone want to do that??? Well, because they show you the game(without almost any limits) and if the game agrees with you, you'll naturally want to support it. B2P would go here as well(all three of those :P). The liberal model.
We gamers want the second one(naturally). The devs want the first one(also naturally). The friction here is obvious. There has got to be middle ground
The devs might naturally prefer method one as it makes them feel better that no one is "free loading" off their work but I'm not at all sure there is any evidence that it actually makes more money.
There will always be players that does not spend anything that screams "GIVE ME MOOOOOORE"
If someone wants to try the game for free it is fine but to be able to play that much as SWTOR does, if something is dumb it is that.
It is also fun to read how many players gets confused regarding pay2win
Pay 2 win is when a Free 2 Play game is a farce. Penalizing players with ninja nerfs behind the scenes is a farce. They should man-up and state instead of trying to nerf you behind your back. That's a cowards way out.
Free 2 Play games have micro-transactions that allow Free 2 Play players to enjoy the game on their level and unlock only what they need. There's no way to unlock 20% schematic research.
This game is a farce. They created Free to Play as a publicity stunt and never intended to implement it. It will fall with the next Star Wars MMO harder than SWG.
Not true you can buy stuff to up your crit chance.
Pay 2 win is when a Free 2 Play game is a farce. Penalizing players with ninja nerfs behind the scenes is a farce. They should man-up and state instead of trying to nerf you behind your back. That's a cowards way out.
Free 2 Play games have micro-transactions that allow Free 2 Play players to enjoy the game on their level and unlock only what they need. There's no way to unlock 20% schematic research.
This game is a farce. They created Free to Play as a publicity stunt and never intended to implement it. It will fall with the next Star Wars MMO harder than SWG.
It's why people call games like that freemium. These games are not designed to have every mmo parasite on the market leaching off it. If you want to play it you either pay the sub or accept the rather large limitations.
This needs to be repeated until the "OMG P2W" crowd gets it. This is NOT a FTP game. It's a sub game with a FTP OPTION. As far as I'm concerned they gave too much away by allowing players to level to 50 for free. At best the moochers that refuse to drop a dime on this game should only be allowed to get to the end of Chapter 1 and then be forced to pay to unlock the other chapters. They're getting a gift not being charged to play the best part of the game IMO.
Correct, also if you're not a subscriber the crit rate on gathering missions is so low they're not even worth bothering with, as you can usually buy the non crit mats for less than the mission costs on the AH.
I didn't think they would be so dumb enough to hide pay2win features but I am now amazed. Only a coward would nerf you behind your back.
Makes it much easier to uninstall and never look back.
Only a coward would play for free good game. If it is bad, is stupid to continue to play. Problem solved.
The parasites that want to play every game for free and get every feature for free will not stop whining until they are at equal footing with a subscriber. They do not want to spend a cent on a game even after they may have played it for weeks because it goes against their 'stick it to the game company' philosophy. However taking the restriction like any reasonable person is also simply not in their makeup.
They approach each game like a battlefield where the object is to play the game without paying or spending a cent on anything and to get everything from it. When they find out that subscribers get certain benefits it affronts their little leech hearts and makes their parasitic brains go mad. So they vent and try to make the big bad game company which has already opened up almost all of the game to them as the villain of the piece. They hope to get like minded individuals be it haters of EA or moochers to come to their rallying call.
The game company shockingly is trying to get you to subscribe be thankful they gave you the class stories. By right they should as others have said here put it behind a pay wall. People like the OP will never give a red cent to SWTOR and aside from being a warm body and occupy the game population numbers they can be quite cheerfully disregarded and their complaints shoved.
Pay 2 win is when a Free 2 Play game is a farce. Penalizing players with ninja nerfs behind the scenes is a farce. They should man-up and state instead of trying to nerf you behind your back. That's a cowards way out.
Free 2 Play games have micro-transactions that allow Free 2 Play players to enjoy the game on their level and unlock only what they need. There's no way to unlock 20% schematic research.
This game is a farce. They created Free to Play as a publicity stunt and never intended to implement it. It will fall with the next Star Wars MMO harder than SWG.
It's why people call games like that freemium. These games are not designed to have every mmo parasite on the market leaching off it. If you want to play it you either pay the sub or accept the rather large limitations.
This needs to be repeated until the "OMG P2W" crowd gets it. This is NOT a FTP game. It's a sub game with a FTP OPTION. As far as I'm concerned they gave too much away by allowing players to level to 50 for free. At best the moochers that refuse to drop a dime on this game should only be allowed to get to the end of Chapter 1 and then be forced to pay to unlock the other chapters. They're getting a gift not being charged to play the best part of the game IMO.
It's advertised as a f2p game.
Anyway, the elitism of subscriber's in this thread is astounding. Saying stuff like f2p players are leachers who should be treated as 2nd class citizens. You realize those same players keep your game alive?
And really that 15 a month you pay is chickenscratch compared to what some people pay in non-sub f2p games.
SWTOR is by far the most atrocious f2p model ever invented. As one guy mentioned, there's a paywall behind "hide helmet".
Their approach is to basically annoy the f*ck out of you until in utter exasperation you buy a sub. It can aptly be described as cowardly, maybe even childish. It's certainly unsophisticated and disrespectful.
The modern way to get people to pay money is to make them WANT to pay. Not virtually waterboard them into submission until they pay.
And some people in this thread say it's not enough.
Why not once a week send hired goons to drag out f2p players and flog them in the streets in the dead of night? I'm sure it would amuse some of you elitescribers.
SWTOR is by far the most atrocious f2p model ever invented. As one guy mentioned, there's a paywall behind "hide helmet".
I guess youve never played LOTRO
and hide helmet is the EXACT type of thing that should be behind a paywall. its 100% cosmetic. Would you rather have classes locked or planets locked?
SWTOR's model is fine. There may be better models out there, but there are certainly far worse too.
No, sorry SWTOR is the worst. If not the worst than the 2nd worst of all time in MMO history for AAA games.
And yes I definitely would rather have classes/content locked. I'd rather be able to play the full version of part of the game then a half-assed version of all of the game, that constantly reminds you you're playing a half-assed version in every possible conceivable way (and even goes so far as to make the game less enjoyable without you even knowing about it, like in the OP).
"It's 100% cosmetic". Well, what about all the other stuff behind the gates. Xp gain, etc. I don't even know what most of it is since I tried the game recently and after the 10th time I was told I should subscribe to be playing the full-game, I stopped playing.
And it's not because I think 15 is too much to spend on a game; I spent 100 dollars on a ftp game last month (which in retrospect is too much I think but the way the business model works so well I can't resist- and just plunked another 10 down today). It's because the model was making the game so unenjoyable I felt that I would have to pay just to maybe enjoy it. On the other hand, the game that got my money made the game so enjoyable that I had little qualms with giving them money to support it and also enhance my already enjoyable experience.
Good f2p games make you feel like your getting a backstage pass to a great concert. SWTOR's model makes you feel bent over a barrel, helpless. Which is more likely to have a positive consumer reaction?
It's because the model was making the game so unenjoyable I felt that I would have to pay just to maybe enjoy it.
The problem is you, not the model. If you didnt know what subscribers had access to you wouldnt be so whiny about it. You are seeing what others have and wanting for free what they pay for.
Comments
Pssst. Hey, let's pretend for a moment that crafters should want to... oh, I don't know, actually sell what they craft. Ludicrous, you're thinking, but bear with me. Can you not see how, if this were true, crafters might actually be in -direct- competition with each other? The ease of crafting via companions actually makes competition more harsh as supply rises.
In this crazy world of limited demand, F2P crafters (restricted to only 2 slots on the GTC against a sub's 50) who don't have the option of diversifying their products will never be able to consistently compete in any market of the game versus a sub player who decides to undercut them. The inability to do so, barring any external factors, is what leads some people to claim p2w.
There should also be a consideration for plausibility. Yes, a f2p player could create the same items as a sub, however only via buying mats off the GTC since you can only have 1 crew skill (2 w/ preferred) and can't mail mats from alts. Not only does this cut into your already depleted profit margins, it closes certain markets to you altogether. Not something most people who are solely there to "make stuff" would put up with.
The alternative, (cartel unlocks) goes for more creds on most servers than a f2p account can actually hold...
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Now I'm not saying this is wrong (they don't HAVE to allow you anything for free). Misleading, yes. SWTOR isn't advertised as a free trial and yet you can't be competitive in pve, pvp, or professions without spending $$.
My point is that while you have the option to jump through all the tedious, ridiculous hurdles Bioware has implemented, if you were 100% set against paying money, it would be much easier to just get a $15 amazon gift card balance through online rewards programs every month and spend the money on the damn subscription code there than it would be to actually craft as f2p. It would certainly result in less headaches at the very least.
Can't speak for others, I skipped the xp because I think it's in the unlockable category, and for that I listed the more pathetic ones, like title display and unify colors
(xp is sort of unlockable, there are xp boosts, and guild membership also giving 5-10% xp boost)
And for the same reason Turbine is not even close to TOR, because both LotRO and DDO can be unlocked fully, while TOR will have a lot of restrictions even if you spend a smaller fortune on the game. Turbine is the classical version, I agree with that, but TOR is not, TOR is below that. Classical version was: removing the entry barrier, and take the player's money via different ways, but the end result is the same gameplay.
In LotRO you can have the same gameplay as vips if you buy everything, and you can even cherry-pick and pay for only those you want to play. In TOR, even if you buy every unlock for the whole account, you'll be restricted compared to a subscriber. That's not classical f2p, that's not even f2p in its entirety.
Oh, and don't even go to the TP earning area, LotRO can be unlocked for free with simply playing the game, in TOR you also can earn CC's with the Legacy revamp, but it's so little amount it's almost close to none.
I totally agree! It's fricken .50 cents a day! Don't eat a Twinky or have one less Mountain Dew.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Have you played SWTOR? You don't make money from crafting. Free players that are logging in to craft can make anything they want. You can't do it as fast as a subscribed player? Too bad. SWTOR was built to make money. The fact that they give you so much of the game for free is pretty outstanding. People playing a game for free should not attempt to be competitive, as that is a perk of subscribing.
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'course you do. Cybertech mods for orange/cartel gear are still in high demand at all tiers despite the changes to commendations, biochem adrenals still sell well for pvp/raiding, salvage/UWT can be pretty lucrative at certain levels and slicing/treasure hunting have always been profitable for schematics.
The simple fact that you can't have all crew skills on a single character and people are, as a rule, lazy means there's a demand for all of them. The fact that f2p'ers can't take advantage of that demand is sort of the purpose of this thread =/
By that fact that you're arguing whether its right or not means you admit there is an issue to begin with. And that is, if you want to be a crafter, Bioware has shown, f2p is not a feasible option for you. I'm fine with that, just be practical about it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I don't think you get a reduced chance of RE'ing an item if your not a subscriber, afaik, its always been, for green items a 20% chance, with some blue items only being 10%. I've mastered almost all the different crafts now, and i must admit that 10% chance to RE some items is a real hindrance, though why some blues are only 10% and others 20% i have absolutely no idea, and yes, i am a subscriber.
The main benefits of being a subscriber is not having any 'restrictions' on your play, from Space missions - dubious at best i admit as the space game is still imo, the weakest part of the game, and the new Starfighter thing is not really much of an improvement if any.
No item restrictions, subscribers can freely use purple items/mods, F2P without the unlock are limited to blues, which might not seem like much, but the difference it makes to the effective 'level' of an item is immense, green items are level neutral, blues are effectively green items with a +2 level advantage, purples a +4 level advantage over green, you need to be able to use purple items to compete in end game PVP and Operations etc so while blues are perfectly fine during levelling, once you are max level you need to have purple modded gear, but then if you are a F2P player you have to buy access to those on a weekly basis anyway, if you want to do it more than a couple of times in a week, technically, you could save money by just levelling up while F2P and then subbing once you reach max level for the end game content, though really you would miss out on a lot during that process and it would be a time consuming grind at times.
Trading, F2P players have restrictions on the amount of cash they can own in their wallets, and how many trades they can have, if any, on the GTN, they also cannot mail cash/items afaik.
All in all, to me the F2P option is more like a super extended free trial of the game. It allows you to really find out whether you want to not only play the game long term, but whether you would want to play it enough that subbing would open up more character slots in the game so that you can enjoy the rest of the storylines - you get 2 character slots as F2P, not sure about preferred, but as a sub you get 10 per server, F2P just get 2 overall. I would prefer to see more games use this type of F2P/P2P hybrid, if only because it would mean i don't have to gamble so much on buying new games, or wait to see how they turn out through youtube lets play videos etc. If ESO had this type of thing i would probably have tried it, but given what i've seen of it so far, i wouldn't risk money on it, as there is a pretty good chance i wouldn't like it, if it had a F2P/P2P hybrid - without the box price of course, then i think a great many other people who are on the fence with it would maybe give it a try, though i can imagine that probably applies to quite a few games out there, Wildstar included.
Not just Cybertech, but Armstech Armsmech, and artifice also, as the high end mods are always in demand. Armstech can, eventually make the level 156 barrels (purple 53's) making 55's is problematic and something i have never done, but even making blues/purples for lower levels - mostly blues, is very lucrative, the same with hilts from artifice, lot of force users out there want the best hilts for their sabers that they can get, and again purple 53's are expensive, as are purple 53 enhancements, and the various augments.
Dont speak for me. And dont put Turbine in with SWTOR, their models are by far the worst out there and in a league of their own.
Turbine is 'sub doesnt even get you everything' model. EQ2 and SWTOR are ideal in my eyes. Once you are subbed, you can forget you are playing a f2p game. however you can play for hundreds of hours in either game as f2p and do just fine. But i strongly feel f2p players should feel like second class citizens, because the more sub revenue a developer gets the less they have to lean on the cash shop impacting the game experience for subbers.
Rift sounds ideal on paper, but you are reminded of the fact Trion wants more money every time you go to a vendor and get a giant cash shop that takes up 3/4 of your screen, even if you are a subber. Its intrusive to immersion. You also have things like selling high quality gear in Rift.
People are greedy bastards though, on both sides. I think players are actually more greedy than the developers though. Ive seen people complaining about Rift charging for the new souls. They are 100% non essential to the game, and Trion has to make money somewhere. People seem to not care that developers need money to keep actively developing.
But there is no reason they should be able to
Dont speak for me. And dont put Turbine in with SWTOR, their models are by far the worst out there and in a league of their own.
Turbine is 'sub doesnt even get you everything' model. EQ2 and SWTOR are ideal in my eyes. Once you are subbed, you can forget you are playing a f2p game. however you can play for hundreds of hours in either game as f2p and do just fine. But i strongly feel f2p players should feel like second class citizens, because the more sub revenue a developer gets the less they have to lean on the cash shop impacting the game experience for subbers.
Rift sounds ideal on paper, but you are reminded of the fact Trion wants more money every time you go to a vendor and get a giant cash shop that takes up 3/4 of your screen, even if you are a subber. Its intrusive to immersion. You also have things like selling high quality gear in Rift.
People are greedy bastards though, on both sides. I think players are actually more greedy than the developers though. Ive seen people complaining about Rift charging for the new souls. They are 100% non essential to the game, and Trion has to make money somewhere. People seem to not care that developers need money to keep actively developing.
STO is pretty bad about that too. You're reminded of its FTP status every time you loot or every few minutes when a "Captain Moroon has just aquired grand ship" flashes on your screen. The only time I'm reminded of TOR's FTP is when I get the monthly cartel coins email. I can use the coins for cool quality of life improvments which is nice.Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
haha, again with pay 2 win.
Dude, you get an endless free trial. That's what this is. You can't expect to get the full game with no limitations for free!
I just logged out of SWTOR few mins ago and everything in there screams if you want a full unlimited experience - subscribe... and that's ok, because I can go trough the whole game without spending a coin, but then if I want to be able to play dungeons all day or equip end game gear or play pvp all day - I have to subscribe or buy the passes trough the shop. Makes sence
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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There will always be players that does not spend anything that screams "GIVE ME MOOOOOORE"
If someone wants to try the game for free it is fine but to be able to play that much as SWTOR does, if something is dumb it is that.
It is also fun to read how many players gets confused regarding pay2win
Pay 2 win is when a Free 2 Play game is a farce. Penalizing players with ninja nerfs behind the scenes is a farce. They should man-up and state instead of trying to nerf you behind your back. That's a cowards way out.
Free 2 Play games have micro-transactions that allow Free 2 Play players to enjoy the game on their level and unlock only what they need. There's no way to unlock 20% schematic research.
This game is a farce. They created Free to Play as a publicity stunt and never intended to implement it. It will fall with the next Star Wars MMO harder than SWG.
It's why people call games like that freemium. These games are not designed to have every mmo parasite on the market leaching off it. If you want to play it you either pay the sub or accept the rather large limitations.
It's a rather popular payment model with people who want a p2p game but their game of choice switched to f2p
The devs might naturally prefer method one as it makes them feel better that no one is "free loading" off their work but I'm not at all sure there is any evidence that it actually makes more money.
Not true you can buy stuff to up your crit chance.
This needs to be repeated until the "OMG P2W" crowd gets it. This is NOT a FTP game. It's a sub game with a FTP OPTION. As far as I'm concerned they gave too much away by allowing players to level to 50 for free. At best the moochers that refuse to drop a dime on this game should only be allowed to get to the end of Chapter 1 and then be forced to pay to unlock the other chapters. They're getting a gift not being charged to play the best part of the game IMO.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Only a coward would play for free good game. If it is bad, is stupid to continue to play. Problem solved.
The parasites that want to play every game for free and get every feature for free will not stop whining until they are at equal footing with a subscriber. They do not want to spend a cent on a game even after they may have played it for weeks because it goes against their 'stick it to the game company' philosophy. However taking the restriction like any reasonable person is also simply not in their makeup.
They approach each game like a battlefield where the object is to play the game without paying or spending a cent on anything and to get everything from it. When they find out that subscribers get certain benefits it affronts their little leech hearts and makes their parasitic brains go mad. So they vent and try to make the big bad game company which has already opened up almost all of the game to them as the villain of the piece. They hope to get like minded individuals be it haters of EA or moochers to come to their rallying call.
The game company shockingly is trying to get you to subscribe be thankful they gave you the class stories. By right they should as others have said here put it behind a pay wall. People like the OP will never give a red cent to SWTOR and aside from being a warm body and occupy the game population numbers they can be quite cheerfully disregarded and their complaints shoved.
It's advertised as a f2p game.
Anyway, the elitism of subscriber's in this thread is astounding. Saying stuff like f2p players are leachers who should be treated as 2nd class citizens. You realize those same players keep your game alive?
And really that 15 a month you pay is chickenscratch compared to what some people pay in non-sub f2p games.
SWTOR is by far the most atrocious f2p model ever invented. As one guy mentioned, there's a paywall behind "hide helmet".
Their approach is to basically annoy the f*ck out of you until in utter exasperation you buy a sub. It can aptly be described as cowardly, maybe even childish. It's certainly unsophisticated and disrespectful.
The modern way to get people to pay money is to make them WANT to pay. Not virtually waterboard them into submission until they pay.
And some people in this thread say it's not enough.
Why not once a week send hired goons to drag out f2p players and flog them in the streets in the dead of night? I'm sure it would amuse some of you elitescribers.
I guess youve never played LOTRO
and hide helmet is the EXACT type of thing that should be behind a paywall. its 100% cosmetic. Would you rather have classes locked or planets locked?
SWTOR's model is fine. There may be better models out there, but there are certainly far worse too.
No, sorry SWTOR is the worst. If not the worst than the 2nd worst of all time in MMO history for AAA games.
And yes I definitely would rather have classes/content locked. I'd rather be able to play the full version of part of the game then a half-assed version of all of the game, that constantly reminds you you're playing a half-assed version in every possible conceivable way (and even goes so far as to make the game less enjoyable without you even knowing about it, like in the OP).
"It's 100% cosmetic". Well, what about all the other stuff behind the gates. Xp gain, etc. I don't even know what most of it is since I tried the game recently and after the 10th time I was told I should subscribe to be playing the full-game, I stopped playing.
And it's not because I think 15 is too much to spend on a game; I spent 100 dollars on a ftp game last month (which in retrospect is too much I think but the way the business model works so well I can't resist- and just plunked another 10 down today). It's because the model was making the game so unenjoyable I felt that I would have to pay just to maybe enjoy it. On the other hand, the game that got my money made the game so enjoyable that I had little qualms with giving them money to support it and also enhance my already enjoyable experience.
Good f2p games make you feel like your getting a backstage pass to a great concert. SWTOR's model makes you feel bent over a barrel, helpless. Which is more likely to have a positive consumer reaction?
The problem is you, not the model. If you didnt know what subscribers had access to you wouldnt be so whiny about it. You are seeing what others have and wanting for free what they pay for.