Carbine pretty much failed at pacing of the starting zones.
Is it a deal breaker? Might be, at least for F2P crowd, since F2P games have to grab you from the get go. Sub games are designed to engage you at end-game, so you keep paying that sub.
I agree that I would like Wildstar to have more interesting starting experience. But, if I was a designer on a tight schedule, creating a sub game, I would cut corners in a same way, since starting zone levels are short and meaningless compared to rest of the game.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Do you think game designers are putting in customized character creation "for fun" - it's there to hook the player, otherwise they'd never bother with it.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
Except there are successful games that do exist that DO NOT grab you in 20 minutes. You simply stating that it's the "reality" doesn't make it so. I'm saying the problem with games nowadays is people have that mentality. The mentality of "this better be fun in the first ___ or I quit." It makes for more shallow games.
Yes, games should be like jobs. You only have fun after you retire.
I think you are taking the term fun way out of context.
Well the idea is you can have a little bit of fun RIGHT NOW and only for a little while, or you can put some effort and attention into the game and reap even more fun in the long run. I probably have more fun in games than most, and they're often games that people would say are "like jobs."
Yes, because its known that fun is just like farming. Start now and in 6-7 months you might have some fun. Evevryone knows its a win strategy.
It sounds like "if youre in a pain, just hurt yourself harder so initial pain wont seem so bad after THAT!". Sounds legit!
Carbine pretty much failed at pacing of the starting zones.
Is it a deal breaker? Might be, at least for F2P crowd, since F2P games have to grab you from the get go. Sub games are designed to engage you at end-game, so you keep paying that sub.
I agree that I would like Wildstar to have more interesting starting experience. But, if I was a designer on a tight schedule, creating a sub game, I would cut corners in a same way, since starting zone levels are short and meaningless compared to rest of the game.
Its bad when they cut corners (its quite obvious) in MMO part and put all their eggs in lobby part.
I dont want a lobby game, sorry AND lobby games dont have sub on top of that.
Originally posted by Malabooga Originally posted by DeniZgCarbine pretty much failed at pacing of the starting zones.Is it a deal breaker? Might be, at least for F2P crowd, since F2P games have to grab you from the get go. Sub games are designed to engage you at end-game, so you keep paying that sub. I agree that I would like Wildstar to have more interesting starting experience. But, if I was a designer on a tight schedule, creating a sub game, I would cut corners in a same way, since starting zone levels are short and meaningless compared to rest of the game.
Its bad when they cut corners (its quite obvious) in MMO part and put all their eggs in lobby part.
I dont want a lobby game, sorry AND lobby games dont have sub on top of that.
Lobby game? What the hell are you talking about?
Its quite clear that you know nothing about Wildstar.
Wildstar probably has the most group centric leveling of any themepark MMO in quite a long time.
Originally posted by DeniZgCarbine pretty much failed at pacing of the starting zones.Is it a deal breaker? Might be, at least for F2P crowd, since F2P games have to grab you from the get go. Sub games are designed to engage you at end-game, so you keep paying that sub. I agree that I would like Wildstar to have more interesting starting experience. But, if I was a designer on a tight schedule, creating a sub game, I would cut corners in a same way, since starting zone levels are short and meaningless compared to rest of the game.
Its bad when they cut corners (its quite obvious) in MMO part and put all their eggs in lobby part.
I dont want a lobby game, sorry AND lobby games dont have sub on top of that.
Lobby game? What the hell are you talking about?
Its quite clear that you know nothing about Wildstar.
Wildstar probably has the most group centric leveling of any themepark MMO in quite a long time.
The last zone is almost entirely group quests.
So you cannot hit max level solo and must group? Is that what youre saying?
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
I don't necessarily agree with that, but it's not a secret that WS formula is the same from the beginning to the end.
I agree with BcBully.
Some games I've played have been fun from the very start (GW2, Neverwinter), only to turn boring later down the road. Some games I have grinded through the starting zones, but hooked me later, after 10-20 levels (WoW, SWTOR).
Things are not so black and white. Sometimes you might get pleasantly surprised.
FF14 is a great example, great at start, even better mid way, fantastic nearing the end, good for the garbage at the end.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
How so? Playing games is about entertainment, if you're not entertained there's a problem some where, be it not to your taste, or boring design.
I can't think of any design principle I've heard that says "don't worry about it" "they'll have some fun 20 hrs from now"..
ok this is whats wrong with society as a whole in the gaming industry...
We treat MMORPGs like they are on the same level as other games ... farmville, Mario Bros. and such.... Get over your selves.
The amount of time it takes to create an MMORPG i beyond you feeble minded cretins. "If its not fun in the first 20 minutes its a bust?" WTF!?!?
20 minutes into most MMOs and youre still in the Tutorial ... For crying out loud... are you fraggin kidding me? God damned Gimme generation pissants didnt screw up WoW or other games enough? Now your starting on games in Beta?
Its simple... Play the game get to end content then your griping has merit.
So.....when DOES the fun start? After 10 hours? 100? 1000?
Didnt i call this out? Yes i did lol
If it takes epic amount of time to create something that sucks its all more the failure, as its only sucky thing that took long to create (opposed to sucky thing that didnt took long to create i guess)
And im not their parent to have to love them no matter what (you know when a kid invests a lot of time into something that turns out total crap but you must say its super awesome moments ;P )
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Do you think game designers are putting in customized character creation "for fun" - it's there to hook the player, otherwise they'd never bother with it.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
Except there are successful games that do exist that DO NOT grab you in 20 minutes. You simply stating that it's the "reality" doesn't make it so. I'm saying the problem with games nowadays is people have that mentality. The mentality of "this better be fun in the first ___ or I quit." It makes for more shallow games.
Yes, games should be like jobs. You only have fun after you retire.
I think you are taking the term fun way out of context.
Well the idea is you can have a little bit of fun RIGHT NOW and only for a little while, or you can put some effort and attention into the game and reap even more fun in the long run. I probably have more fun in games than most, and they're often games that people would say are "like jobs."
Yes, because its known that fun is just like farming. Start now and in 6-7 months you might have some fun. Evevryone knows its a win strategy.
It sounds like "if youre in a pain, just hurt yourself harder so initial pain wont seem so bad after THAT!". Sounds legit!
How does it sound like that? I'm not talking about pain. I'm talking about satisfaction and accomplishment.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
How so? Playing games is about entertainment, if you're not entertained there's a problem some where, be it not to your taste, or boring design.
I can't think of any design principle I've heard that says "don't worry about it" "they'll have some fun 20 hrs from now"..
ok this is whats wrong with society as a whole in the gaming industry...
We treat MMORPGs like they are on the same level as other games ... farmville, Mario Bros. and such.... Get over your selves.
The amount of time it takes to create an MMORPG i beyond you feeble minded cretins. "If its not fun in the first 20 minutes its a bust?" WTF!?!?
20 minutes into most MMOs and youre still in the Tutorial ... For crying out loud... are you fraggin kidding me? God damned Gimme generation pissants didnt screw up WoW or other games enough? Now your starting on games in Beta?
Its simple... Play the game get to end content then your griping has merit.
No.
Sorry, my time is valuable and I'm not going to waste it slogging through to endgame on the off chance I may find some nugget of entertainment in an entertainment product I paid for.
It doesn't even need to be constant fun, just something, anything enjoyable during the opening hour of a game. If there is nothing to grab me I will move on. I have no regrets missing out on mythical endgame bliss. Plenty of other games have hooked me to the end, so I see no reason why I should give a pass to those that don't.
Get a clue and understand that just because a game takes years to make, doesn't mean we, as paying customers, are required to play it for hundreds of hours before we are allowed to say whether we enjoy the game or not.
As others have stated, being able to skip the tutorial could help no end to increase the "fun factor" for MMO's. Lord knows something needs to be done.
Ok but just because YOU don't have the time to invest to enjoy a deeper game, doesn't mean other people don't.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
Don't bother arguing... The people making those comments are probably single and jobless because they fail to understand that first impressions matter - and that it will take you tremendous extra efforts later to convince someone their first impression was wrong (be it: recruiter, potential date or gamer).
What's funny is that they will call players "entitled" whereas the developers of the games they are defending are the ones who are entitled - thinking you can get a gamer's money without making your product as attractive as it can be to players in the first place. Instead the developers release poorly designed products, full of bugs, unimaginatively cloned from other products, etc. And these "forum dwellers" then lecture us and tell us we are entitled because we don't want to play that crap, and that we should purchase the game from those developers.
But developers are not entitled to my money. They have to deserve it. I'm entitled to fun, otherwise they don't get my money. Simple. They are selling, I'm choosing to buy or not.
*This* is what is wrong with games right now. That they are crap and uninteresting (whether you've invested 20 minutes or 100 hours of your life). That some people are ready to spend hours of boredom in a specific game to enjoy it in the end, whereas they could be enjoying the game from the get go.
Masochism? No, I don't think so. I suppose it's all about elitism and feeling "special/superior" because you've been eating shit and survived, so you can eat the raspberry muffin in the end. I call that stupid and wrong.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
20 min to short...normal game 20min is okay but mmorpg is so different.
I mean what mmorpg game did a good job in the 1st 20min.? (cant think of any...even Wow suck 1st 20min)
...also the way i see it half of max lvl, if u arnt having fun when u hit half of the max lvl then it isnt for u
Half way to max level???? You ve got to be kidding. I can tell if a game will be to my liking in the first hour or 2. With games like TESO I could tell a lot sooner, as the combat alone made me want to poke my own eyes out.
If you are not having fun within 20 minutes of logging in - either the game is not for you or the game designers have failed.
Ugh this mentality is so what's wrong with games right now.
Have you ever even spoken to a game designer in your life for 30 seconds?
Have you ever done any research on game design?
The fact that you have a very short amount of time to "grab" attention of a new player trying your game is REALITY.
Most games try to hook you with character creation - which most people don't even count as part of the game experience - it is - a very important part because giving players the feeling of creating a unique character creates the initial "hook" and ultimately better retention.
Remember the clock on starting to hook a player begins as soon as player hits that Login button.
Don't bother arguing... The people making those comments are probably single and jobless because they fail to understand that first impressions matter - and that it will take you tremendous extra efforts later to convince someone their first impression was wrong (be it: recruiter, potential date or gamer).
What's funny is that they will call players "entitled" whereas the developers of the games they are defending are the ones who are entitled - thinking you can get a gamer's money without making your product as attractive as it can be to players in the first place. Instead the developers release poorly designed products, full of bugs, unimaginatively cloned from other products, etc. And these "forum dwellers" then lecture us and tell us we are entitled because we don't want to play that crap, and that we should purchase the game from those developers.
But developers are not entitled to my money. They have to deserve it. I'm entitled to fun, otherwise they don't get my money. Simple. They are selling, I'm choosing to buy or not.
*This* is what is wrong with games right now. That they are crap and uninteresting (whether you've invested 20 minutes or 100 hours of your life). That some people are ready to spend hours of boredom in a specific game to enjoy it in the end, whereas they could be enjoying the game from the get go.
Masochism? No, I don't think so. I suppose it's all about elitism and feeling "special/superior" because you've been eating shit and survived, so you can eat the raspberry muffin in the end. I call that stupid and wrong.
Enough rambling anyway, not that anyone cares.
Its some kind of residue from old school MMOs where you had to swim through sea of shit to maybe have some fun at some point. But people got wiser it wont float (niiiiice) any more
Promise of fun in indefinite amount of time? That you even have to constantly pay for? No thnaks.
it would be akin to make you watch 100 hours of worst soap operas just so you can watch 1 episode of 1 series of what you actually want to watch (and since you dont really know if THAT is any good). Its pretty obvious how successful would that be
Comments
Carbine pretty much failed at pacing of the starting zones.
Is it a deal breaker? Might be, at least for F2P crowd, since F2P games have to grab you from the get go. Sub games are designed to engage you at end-game, so you keep paying that sub.
I agree that I would like Wildstar to have more interesting starting experience. But, if I was a designer on a tight schedule, creating a sub game, I would cut corners in a same way, since starting zone levels are short and meaningless compared to rest of the game.
Yes, because its known that fun is just like farming. Start now and in 6-7 months you might have some fun. Evevryone knows its a win strategy.
It sounds like "if youre in a pain, just hurt yourself harder so initial pain wont seem so bad after THAT!". Sounds legit!
Its bad when they cut corners (its quite obvious) in MMO part and put all their eggs in lobby part.
I dont want a lobby game, sorry AND lobby games dont have sub on top of that.
It gets fun at level 6 when you can just do PvP all the way to endgame. The XP and currency rewards are quite good so you can bypass all the questing.
Another way to level is just to grind mobs if that's your thing.
Adventures start from 15 and instances from 20 which is also a possibility to get few levels.
Well, WoW will have it, its quite good cash shop item, so i wouldnt be surprised
I dont want a lobby game, sorry AND lobby games dont have sub on top of that.
Lobby game? What the hell are you talking about?
Its quite clear that you know nothing about Wildstar.
Wildstar probably has the most group centric leveling of any themepark MMO in quite a long time.
The last zone is almost entirely group quests.
So you cannot hit max level solo and must group? Is that what youre saying?
FF14 is a great example, great at start, even better mid way, fantastic nearing the end, good for the garbage at the end.
I actually don't really like wildstar, but it got better after the tutorial, I'd say give it a hour or so.
The beginner areas are abysmal, so if you get past those and are still bored like me, just quit.
will have it? its been ingame for the last 2 months
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3828-Warlords-of-Draenor-Pre-Order-and-Level-90-Boosts-Now-Available
EQ2 fan sites
True story, QFEx2
My parent's always said there was no such things are dumb questions, however, they never been on the internet before.
Ye, i stand corrected
So.....when DOES the fun start? After 10 hours? 100? 1000?
Didnt i call this out? Yes i did lol
If it takes epic amount of time to create something that sucks its all more the failure, as its only sucky thing that took long to create (opposed to sucky thing that didnt took long to create i guess)
And im not their parent to have to love them no matter what (you know when a kid invests a lot of time into something that turns out total crap but you must say its super awesome moments ;P )
The number of people defending how its ok for a game to suck for first 20-30 hours (!!!!!) or maybe more is disturbing...
Going back to vanilla wow, where leveling is actualy fun, gfx is same with better performance and raids are of the same quality
- I cant believe how much the MMOs have progressed since 2004..
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
How does it sound like that? I'm not talking about pain. I'm talking about satisfaction and accomplishment.
Ok but just because YOU don't have the time to invest to enjoy a deeper game, doesn't mean other people don't.
Don't bother arguing... The people making those comments are probably single and jobless because they fail to understand that first impressions matter - and that it will take you tremendous extra efforts later to convince someone their first impression was wrong (be it: recruiter, potential date or gamer).
What's funny is that they will call players "entitled" whereas the developers of the games they are defending are the ones who are entitled - thinking you can get a gamer's money without making your product as attractive as it can be to players in the first place. Instead the developers release poorly designed products, full of bugs, unimaginatively cloned from other products, etc. And these "forum dwellers" then lecture us and tell us we are entitled because we don't want to play that crap, and that we should purchase the game from those developers.
But developers are not entitled to my money. They have to deserve it. I'm entitled to fun, otherwise they don't get my money. Simple. They are selling, I'm choosing to buy or not.
*This* is what is wrong with games right now. That they are crap and uninteresting (whether you've invested 20 minutes or 100 hours of your life). That some people are ready to spend hours of boredom in a specific game to enjoy it in the end, whereas they could be enjoying the game from the get go.
Masochism? No, I don't think so. I suppose it's all about elitism and feeling "special/superior" because you've been eating shit and survived, so you can eat the raspberry muffin in the end. I call that stupid and wrong.
Enough rambling anyway, not that anyone cares.
20 min to short...normal game 20min is okay but mmorpg is so different.
I mean what mmorpg game did a good job in the 1st 20min.? (cant think of any...even Wow suck 1st 20min)
...also the way i see it half of max lvl, if u arnt having fun when u hit half of the max lvl then it isnt for u
Half way to max level???? You ve got to be kidding. I can tell if a game will be to my liking in the first hour or 2. With games like TESO I could tell a lot sooner, as the combat alone made me want to poke my own eyes out.
Its some kind of residue from old school MMOs where you had to swim through sea of shit to maybe have some fun at some point. But people got wiser it wont float (niiiiice) any more
Promise of fun in indefinite amount of time? That you even have to constantly pay for? No thnaks.
it would be akin to make you watch 100 hours of worst soap operas just so you can watch 1 episode of 1 series of what you actually want to watch (and since you dont really know if THAT is any good). Its pretty obvious how successful would that be
But somehow that is the norm for MMOs *facepalm*
Slightly adjusted your comment. A game, no matter what genre, can never cater to everyones expectations and needs.