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[Column] Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen: It’s Just Fallen

124

Comments

  • RobbgobbRobbgobb Member UncommonPosts: 672

    The comments were too funny. I have did very little kickstarter because I have not felt like many of them. Know a guy that spent $10k on one of the campaigns but did not tell his wife. He got caught because his gaming group was at his house and asked him about it. 

    There is a couple that I hated missing because I was in an accident that wish I had but Star Citizen was the only game I regret not getting to. Pantheon sounded too good to me so did not donate to it. Sad to see this all happen but such is life. I would be living in a cardboard box if I threw money at all the things that caught my eye on kickstarter

  • sakersaker Member UncommonPosts: 1,249
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    There is one flaw in this story that Mr.Lashley fails to realize when asks why not SOE.

    SOE is not even developing their own game,they are trying to do the whole shebam using other people's money that is the EXACT reason they split Landmark and Next up to find a quick way/gimmick to start drawing in funds to develop next.

    SOE has been failing on their own for quite some time now,that has nothing to do with Brad but more to do with the President/CEO.

    Anyone that knows anything about  gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs,so an unfinished product>well how is that different than anything we have been seeing since that time,either inferior products or once again bugs and rushed out products.

    Point is that anything Brad can be blamed for is easily curved towards all the other developers as well.For it's time Brad was trying and DID succeed in advancing the genre even if only slightly,every game since aide from FFXIV has put out low level developing skills and horrible graphics,so in other words LESS than satisfactory efforts.

    I am not at the point to determine if Brad COULD advance the genre again but i am more than certain,he could not do it on a skeleton budget,but then guess what,neither can anyone else.

    Of course it is my opinion but there has not been one good game either than perhaps FFXIV [and only slightly] since Vanguard,nothing i would give a Triple A rating to, all sub par efforts.

     

    I think this entire area of business, the gaming industry, even software in general has this same situation. The consumer isn't protected adequately from these "corporate-entities" and their endless rip-offs. The "free-market' has always been a propaganda-lie, without over-site it's just a rampant devouring cancer.

  • BravnikBravnik Member UncommonPosts: 155

    Look Brad and Smedley are cut from the same cloth. It's the piece that rides up the crack of your ass. Both have done some good for gaming but both have really hurt gaming even more. Brad sold out EQ to SOE and then SOE under the supervision of Smelly ruined a good game. Then they come out with EQ2 which ended up being a total joke and a further ruination of the EQ world.

    The Brad started Vanguard. Promised to be what EQ2 should have been. People loved the idea. Microsoft was involved and no SOE. Then MS dropped and SOE was back in but Brad promised everyone that SOE is just a publisher and had no say in the game design. Next thing we know all the designers are pulled into the parking lot at work and told they are all fired. Brad was not even there. SOE took over Vanguard and Brad had a job. Smelly and Brad humping each others legs again. The game flops.

    I honestly don't know how Brad could have any credibility at this point. I also don't know how Smelly could have a job after the failures he has done. SWG anyone?

    Both men have done more to hurt gaming and MMO's as we know them than anyone else in the business.

  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Anyone that knows anything about  gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs

     

    You can't be serious.

    Taste is a personal thing, there are no facts. And in both my and and many others' personal opinions, Vanguard was simply one of the worst games ever made. And that has nothing to do with the bugs.

    As someone else said, no one trusts Brad. That is, at least anyone with more than a couple of brain cells working. Can't prove anything, but I'm 100% sure that is the real reason why this one failed.

  • Erinak1Erinak1 Member UncommonPosts: 158
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Anyone that knows anything about  gaming should realize that Vanguard was a brilliant game,much better than most games out there,it's ONLY draw back was bugs

     

    You can't be serious.

    Taste is a personal thing, there are no facts. And in both my and and many others' personal opinions, Vanguard was simply one of the worst games ever made. And that has nothing to do with the bugs.

    As someone else said, no one trusts Brad. That is, at least anyone with more than a couple of brain cells working. Can't prove anything, but I'm 100% sure that is the real reason why this one failed.

    I don't think you're right. I didn't really know who Brad was. The reason I didn't donate to the Kickstarter was because the whole thing looked like a scam. It was so poorly put together and their way of releasing tiny bits of information at a time made it look like they were just making it up as they went along. Most people don't want to go back every day to read stuff that might want to convince them to pay.. I don't think I'm alone in the fact unless I am immediately grabbed I more or less forget about it after one visit.

     

    I have no real opinion on the guy, (Vanguard was too buggy for me to put up with but I didn't play enough to have an opinion past that) but my opinion is that he thought just showing up and saying his name would cause the masses to throw money at him whereas before the rumour-mongering started, I'd really question how many people even knew his name. I didn't and I had played both the games he had had a hand in previously.

     

    I suspect that is the reason why the KS failed more then anything. It was horrible.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Bravnik

    The Brad started Vanguard. Promised to be what EQ2 should have been. People loved the idea. Microsoft was involved and no SOE. Then MS dropped and SOE was back in but Brad promised everyone that SOE is just a publisher and had no say in the game design. Next thing we know all the designers are pulled into the parking lot at work and told they are all fired. Brad was not even there. SOE took over Vanguard and Brad had a job. Smelly and Brad humping each others legs again. The game flops.

    skipped some

    Vanguard launched in Jan 2007 with SOE acting only as publisher

    http://www.shacknews.com/article/46750/soe-discussing-future-of-vanguard

    it wasn't until May 2007 that SOE aquired Sigil's failed game, Vanguard  and the parking lot bit happened

    http://www.thegrouchygamer.com/?p=39

     

     

  • saxifrsaxifr Member UncommonPosts: 381
    The only person putting Brad McQuaid down is Brad McQuaid.

    RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671
    Great article.  Can't agree more.

    Steam: Neph

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,648
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by rookiesalad

    I get so tired of people crapping on this guy.

     

    It's a self fulfilling prophecy.  If all that is ever said is this guy and what he does is crap, then all people are gonna see when they look is crap.  It will be that way whether it's true or not.

     

    The guy is trying to make a game.  It's hard, especially so for Brad with all the shade people throw his way.  He has made mistakes, and will probably make more.  Last I checked, he is human, and therefore not perfect. 

     

    I say give him a little room to breath, even if you happen to hate him.  I think the game has a better chance to be made if every media outlet and their respective commenters aren't trying to get their punches in.  Then the game will speak for itself, as it should be.

     
     

    Facts and history are hard to refute.  "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."

    So, facts and history are hard to refute:

    EverQuest - First game requiring a 3d card to play, sold millions of copies and caused the explosion of an entire genre of gaming.  Co-Developed by Brad McQuaid.

    Vanguard: Saga of Heroes - Developed primarily by company owned by Brad McQuaid, ultimately failed due to a combination of mismanagement and publisher forcing early release.

    Everyone conveniently forgets people's successes when they want to demonize someone for something they're unhappy about.

    If we followed your logic then Steve Jobs should have been burned at the stake for allowing Apple to almost go out of business after a metric crap ton of terrible mistakes (like banking on powerPC processors instead of intel/amd processors).

    The fact is, people make mistakes, and i'm getting really tired of people pissing all over Brad McQuaid because its the popular/cool thing to do.

    I dont remember the exact figure but it was somewhere between 100-200k copies of Vanguard were sold, unless you were one of those people you have 0 right to be pissed at him, but like usual we have a bunch of bandwagoners jumping on board the internet hate train.  So much so it seems even one of MMORPG.coms contributors just couldn't resist making a "I told you so" article.

    Enjoy your max level in 20 hours, on rail quest a thon single player "MMORPG's" people.

    The manner in which he screwed people over during the development and release of Vanguard not only speaks for itself, it speaks to his character, that alone is enough for me to be wary of any future projects he may involve himself.  The fact that he mishandled and yet again, mismanaged a second project means he deserves all of the ridicule and disappointment and even anger sent in his direction.  I don't care how brilliant of a designer he may be, his character and greed have doomed him in the eyes of the MMO customer.

    image
  • rwyanrwyan Member UncommonPosts: 468

     

    What made Brad relevant is that not only did he really want to make a MMO that mmo vets wanted to play, he had the platform to do it.

     

     

     

    Basically, he was a dreamer with resources. Unfortunately, this guy is just a dreamer now. The only resources he has left is any potential "volunteers".

     

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Originally posted by Bravnik

    Look Brad and Smedley are cut from the same cloth. It's the piece that rides up the crack of your ass. Both have done some good for gaming but both have really hurt gaming even more. Brad sold out EQ to SOE and then SOE under the supervision of Smelly ruined a good game. Then they come out with EQ2 which ended up being a total joke and a further ruination of the EQ world.

    The Brad started Vanguard. Promised to be what EQ2 should have been. People loved the idea. Microsoft was involved and no SOE. Then MS dropped and SOE was back in but Brad promised everyone that SOE is just a publisher and had no say in the game design. Next thing we know all the designers are pulled into the parking lot at work and told they are all fired. Brad was not even there. SOE took over Vanguard and Brad had a job. Smelly and Brad humping each others legs again. The game flops.

    I honestly don't know how Brad could have any credibility at this point. I also don't know how Smelly could have a job after the failures he has done. SWG anyone?

    Both men have done more to hurt gaming and MMO's as we know them than anyone else in the business.

    McQuaid didn't sell out to SOE.  Verant was a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony, and was brought back in under the brand in the early 2000's.  Brad never owned anything, he started out as a programmer and worked his way up to be one of the creative leads of the game, but never had any real management role it was all on the development side.  We got to see his management skills with the Vanguard fiasco.

     
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by Grakulen
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    5 months pay?  No, by all accounts it was 3 months.

     

    If it was $45,000 for 5 months or $45,000 for 3 months would it really make that big of a difference?

     

    Both would be huge amounts, no doubt.  But the implication that he's setting himself up with a 15k a month paycheck for a company that's struggling with funds anyway, is a bit worse than 9k (which is still a lot).

    You make me like charity

  • saxifrsaxifr Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Grakulen
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    5 months pay?  No, by all accounts it was 3 months.

     

    If it was $45,000 for 5 months or $45,000 for 3 months would it really make that big of a difference?

     

    Both would be huge amounts, no doubt.  But the implication that he's setting himself up with a 15k a month paycheck for a company that's struggling with funds anyway, is a bit worse than 9k (which is still a lot).

    And keep in mind, that's TAKE HOME pay!

    RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,217

    This sounds awful...

     is that Brad guy trying to compete with Curt Schilling or something?





  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Erinak1
     

    I don't think you're right. I didn't really know who Brad was. The reason I didn't donate to the Kickstarter was because the whole thing looked like a scam. It was so poorly put together and their way of releasing tiny bits of information at a time made it look like they were just making it up as they went along. Most people don't want to go back every day to read stuff that might want to convince them to pay.. I don't think I'm alone in the fact unless I am immediately grabbed I more or less forget about it after one visit.

    That doesn't make it a "scam", though. It only makes it a poorly planned and executed KS - which many have already stated. People just want to keep building this image of Brad as "evil person out to steal people's money so he can feed his opium addiction" - which is not only baseless and libelous (unless someone has first-hand, photo-evidence of Brad buying and/or using them?).

    There was a project on KS, called 'Old School RPG', later called 'Shaker'. It was created by Tom Hall (an original co-founder of id Software, creator of Commander Keen, Wolfenstein and Doom, and later Anachronox with Ion Storm), and Brenda Romero (worked on the Wizardry series, Jagged Alliance and the Realms of Arkania series). Its execution was very similar to Pantheon's. Two people with previous history in the genre set up a KS without fully appreciating or preparing for what running a successful campaign would require. They didn't have a lot of information from the start, and were - like Pantheon - adding new bits of info as the days progressed. As a result, they came up even shorter than Pantheon did. Pantheon got over half their KS goal. Shaker didn't even get 1/4 of theirs (1 million).  Yet, no one was calling 'Shaker' a 'scam'. It was simply referred to as "a poorly run Kickstarter" - which is exactly what it, and Pantheon, both were. Poorly run Kickstarters. Nothing more.

    It also demonstrates a complete lack of honesty when people insist on targeting only McQuaid over the KS failing, while completely ignoring every other person involved, a few of whom were just as visible and involved throughout it as McQuaid - if not moreso. McQuaid was not working in a vacuum, on his own.

    Also, it's funny how people conveniently ignore all the other people involved with Pantheon when they want to attack it for failing. The involvement of Salim and the others is seldom even acknowledged, much less held accountable. In that case "It's all McQuaid's fault", "McQuaid failed the KS", "McQuaid this...", "McQuaid that...". 

    However, when it comes to McQuaid taking money... then all of a sudden.. all those other people exist and matter. Then, all of a sudden, it's "Oh, they were his friends!! And they were working hard, without pay, to try and make this game work! And he took the money!". When it's a matter of using them as a convenient device to rip McQuaid apart a bit more, then suddenly people acknowledge them. How freaking convenient. Could you people be any more blatantly dishonest?

    The case of his taking the advance on the funds has already been discussed, and there's more to it than the McQuaid 'Hate Wagoneers' are letting on (not surprisingly) - which makes them even more dishonest than McQuaid. At least he came out and said, to paraphrase, "Yeah, I took the money with the assumption there would be a lot more to follow, and I should have waited until the additional funds were secured". However, the Hatewagoneers won't acknowledge that. They can't, because it takes the wind from their sails. So, they ignore it - in their already disgustingly dishonest manner - so they can continue to spin the truth, invent their own details, and rip him apart.

    This entire article, and many of the posts to follow have been nothing but character assassination, wrapped up in a situation that has been misrepresented, exaggerated and so embellished with BS it's difficult to even tell where the truth ends and the lies begin. And again, it amazes and disgusts me that MMORPG is allowing this to continue. A thread like this about any other person, around any other game, would have been shut down and locked a long time ago. People are hurling around accusations and slanderous remarks like rice at a wedding... and MMORPG stands by and lets it happen. Amazing.

    This whole ordeal has really shined a light on who the bottom feeders are in these forums. Let me tell ya. It's one thing to take someone to task and criticize them for their actions. What's playing out in this thread, however, goes way beyond that.

     

  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 893
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    It also demonstrates a complete lack of honesty when people insist on targeting only McQuaid over the KS failing, while completely ignoring every other person involved, a few of whom were just as visible and involved throughout it as McQuaid - if not moreso. McQuaid was not working in a vacuum, on his own.

    Also, it's funny how people conveniently ignore all the other people involved with Pantheon when they want to attack it for failing. The involvement of Salim and the others is seldom even acknowledged, much less held accountable. In that case "It's all McQuaid's fault", "McQuaid failed the KS", "McQuaid this...", "McQuaid that...". 

    However, when it comes to McQuaid taking money... then all of a sudden.. all those other people exist and matter. Then, all of a sudden, it's "Oh, they were his friends!! And they were working hard, without pay, to try and make this game work! And he took the money!". When it's a matter of using them as a convenient device to rip McQuaid apart a bit more, then suddenly people acknowledge them. How freaking convenient. Could you people be any more blatantly dishonest?

    The case of his taking the advance on the funds has already been discussed, and there's more to it than the McQuaid 'Hate Wagoneers' are letting on (not surprisingly) - which makes them even more dishonest than McQuaid. At least he came out and said, to paraphrase, "Yeah, I took the money with the assumption there would be a lot more to follow, and I should have waited until the additional funds were secured". However, the Hatewagoneers won't acknowledge that. They can't, because it takes the wind from their sails. So, they ignore it - in their already disgustingly dishonest manner - so they can continue to spin the truth, invent their own details, and rip him apart.

    This entire article, and many of the posts to follow have been nothing but character assassination, wrapped up in a situation that has been misrepresented, exaggerated and so embellished with BS it's difficult to even tell where the truth ends and the lies begin. And again, it amazes and disgusts me that MMORPG is allowing this to continue. A thread like this about any other person, around any other game, would have been shut down and locked a long time ago. People are hurling around accusations and slanderous remarks like rice at a wedding... and MMORPG stands by and lets it happen. Amazing.

    This whole ordeal has really shined a light on who the bottom feeders are in these forums. Let me tell ya. It's one thing to take someone to task and criticize them for their actions. What's playing out in this thread, however, goes way beyond that.

     

    Brad takes responsibility for the failure of the KS because he was in charge. Leadership is responsible for failures. That's how the world works.

    This article was in no means a smear campaign or a character assassination. It brought to light for people on this website a pretty underhanded move that was pulled off by Brad. Some of the replies have been less than kind but people are entitled to their opinions. Just as you are entitled to yours. As long as they are not breaking our rules of conduct the posts stay. Just like yours.

    It's clear that you support Brad. That's good. Keep supporting him. Maybe he'll make something of this. My guess is probably not.

    Also, do you really think at the time Brad took that money anyone thought they would secure additional funding to make this project happen? The KS failed in spectacular fashion and then they were only able to pull in about 150K in funding? I think anyone that believes that, including Brad, is being willfully naive.

  • KothosesKothoses Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by psiic

    WTH ??

     

    You guys are ok with ANYONE taking a paycheck out of crowdfunding capital ?

     

    The money is NEVER pledged for paychecks,  the money is pledged for development only.

     

    To my understanding the capital is to be spent on hardware and software ONLY.

     

    Crowdfunding does Not exist so some CEO can give himself a million dollar golden parachute on a failed project. We have enough of this shit in the corporate sector.

     

    What Brad did is THEFT and the guy should be in jail.

     

    p.s. yes I know it was not a million dollars he stole, just making a reference to his corporate counterparts.

    Hate to burst your bubble, but when you put money into a crowdsourced project you do not get to dictate where it goes.  You are giving money as a DONATION, you are not a customer, you are not an investor you are a doner.

     

    Regardless of the rights or wrongs of what Brad did or did not do, when you put your money into a crowdfunded project that money is gone and the people you give it to can currently spend it on what ever they want.  

     

    Thats why there is serious work towards regulating crowdfunding drives.   But for now, buyer beware with ANY of these, currently there is NO legal recourse for your money, if a project gets crowd funded, and then the project lead shuts it down, that money is still theirs not yours.

     

    You might not agree with what happened here, but currently (thats the important word) there is no legal precedent to say its wrong.   Morally questionable, but legally legit.

     

    Please do not be confused, as a crowd funder the only input you get is what the people behind the crowd funding allow you once your money has been taken.

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • GadarethGadareth Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Basically history has shown that brad Mcquaid is a good game designer but a lousy business man. He should NEVER be given control over the purse strings.

    I would even go as far as saying he should not be given a management role beyond perhaps lead designer. With his enthusasm being curtailed by somone with a head for project and resource management.

     

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,764
    Originally posted by Gadareth

    Basically history has shown that brad Mcquaid is a good game designer but a lousy business man. He should NEVER be given control over the purse strings.

    I would even go as far as saying he should not be given a management role beyond perhaps lead designer. With his enthusasm being curtailed by somone with a head for project and resource management.

     

    This i agree with,he is a lousy businessman but a very good designer.There was no EQ fame without Brad,Smedley is not a game coder he is actually nothing but the guy in charge,he is not making great games happen,it is his employees who do that.

    As for KS i don't like the idea at all and would not hand over money to anyone attempting to use it,i put out money for FINISHED products.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by Gadareth

    Basically history has shown that brad Mcquaid is a good game designer but a lousy business man. He should NEVER be given control over the purse strings.

    I would even go as far as saying he should not be given a management role beyond perhaps lead designer. With his enthusasm being curtailed by somone with a head for project and resource management.

     

    This i agree with,he is a lousy businessman but a very good designer.There was no EQ fame without Brad,Smedley is not a game coder he is actually nothing but the guy in charge,he is not making great games happen,it is his employees who do that.

    As for KS i don't like the idea at all and would not hand over money to anyone attempting to use it,i put out money for FINISHED products.

     

     

    Why are some of you still calling him a good/great designer, based on stuff he did in EQ 10-15 years ago?

    I'm pretty sure most of today's devs are better than he ever was. His fame is because he was one of the first, and there wasn't many to compare with.

    Btw, I agree with your last paragraph. I will NEVER put money in ANY KS project. Imo, wasting money on that, early access, and paid alpha/beta testing, is absurd.

  • sirphobossirphobos Member UncommonPosts: 620
    I loved Everquest back in the day, but I can't say some of the design choices, such as ten minutes of downtime to recover mana, hell levels, etc, were indicative of a brilliant game designer. Not to mention probably the most unbalanced classes in MMO history.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Kothoses
     

    Hate to burst your bubble, but when you put money into a crowdsourced project you do not get to dictate where it goes.  You are giving money as a DONATION, you are not a customer, you are not an investor you are a doner.

     

    Regardless of the rights or wrongs of what Brad did or did not do, when you put your money into a crowdfunded project that money is gone and the people you give it to can currently spend it on what ever they want.  

     

    Thats why there is serious work towards regulating crowdfunding drives.   But for now, buyer beware with ANY of these, currently there is NO legal recourse for your money, if a project gets crowd funded, and then the project lead shuts it down, that money is still theirs not yours.

     

    You might not agree with what happened here, but currently (thats the important word) there is no legal precedent to say its wrong.   Morally questionable, but legally legit.

     

    Please do not be confused, as a crowd funder the only input you get is what the people behind the crowd funding allow you once your money has been taken.

    That isn't totally true. Precedent is about to be set. This will probably open the floodgates on the KS's that turn out to be scams. Even if it's trying to get blood out of a stone.

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by Ginaz
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
     

    So, facts and history are hard to refute:

    EverQuest - First game requiring a 3d card to play, sold millions of copies and caused the explosion of an entire genre of gaming.  Co-Developed by Brad McQuaid.

    Vanguard: Saga of Heroes - Developed primarily by company owned by Brad McQuaid, ultimately failed due to a combination of mismanagement and publisher forcing early release.

    Everyone conveniently forgets people's successes when they want to demonize someone for something they're unhappy about.

    If we followed your logic then Steve Jobs should have been burned at the stake for allowing Apple to almost go out of business after a metric crap ton of terrible mistakes (like banking on powerPC processors instead of intel/amd processors).

    The fact is, people make mistakes, and i'm getting really tired of people pissing all over Brad McQuaid because its the popular/cool thing to do.

    I dont remember the exact figure but it was somewhere between 100-200k copies of Vanguard were sold, unless you were one of those people you have 0 right to be pissed at him, but like usual we have a bunch of bandwagoners jumping on board the internet hate train.  So much so it seems even one of MMORPG.coms contributors just couldn't resist making a "I told you so" article.

    Enjoy your max level in 20 hours, on rail quest a thon single player "MMORPG's" people.

    You do realize he gave himself at least $45k from the donations?  Those donations weren't meant to be used as his own personal piggy bank.  How many "mistakes" does someone have to make before you realize what they are really are?  Face it, this thing is done like dinner and I'll be surprised if McQuaid ever gets a job in the industry again.

    [mod edit]

    Yes, i do realize that.   Yes, he also stated from the beginning that the money would be used to BACK pay the studio's employees and anything past that would be put towards future development costs.

    Was it probably a bad decision? Yes.  Did he probably give himself a larger than fair share? Yes.

    Does this mean we need to dance on his grave?  No.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Originally posted by Grakulen
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    *snip*

     

    Brad takes responsibility for the failure of the KS because he was in charge. Leadership is responsible for failures. That's how the world works.

    This article was in no means a smear campaign or a character assassination. It brought to light for people on this website a pretty underhanded move that was pulled off by Brad. Some of the replies have been less than kind but people are entitled to their opinions. Just as you are entitled to yours. As long as they are not breaking our rules of conduct the posts stay. Just like yours.

    It's clear that you support Brad. That's good. Keep supporting him. Maybe he'll make something of this. My guess is probably not.

    Also, do you really think at the time Brad took that money anyone thought they would secure additional funding to make this project happen? The KS failed in spectacular fashion and then they were only able to pull in about 150K in funding? I think anyone that believes that, including Brad, is being willfully naive.

    While I agree with everthing you've said in this post, particularly the part about naivety (which is why i didnt donate to the post kickstarter website), i still just feel like you made your original article because you just couldn't resist the urge to say "I told ya so".  I question if the article was even necessary.  Usually you guys will do articles that spark discussions that need to be had.  In my opinion this discussion didn't need to be had again, and i think the overall tone of the responses on the article indicate exactly why it didn't need to be had.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • MavolenceMavolence Member UncommonPosts: 635
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Grakulen
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    *snip*

     

    Brad takes responsibility for the failure of the KS because he was in charge. Leadership is responsible for failures. That's how the world works.

    This article was in no means a smear campaign or a character assassination. It brought to light for people on this website a pretty underhanded move that was pulled off by Brad. Some of the replies have been less than kind but people are entitled to their opinions. Just as you are entitled to yours. As long as they are not breaking our rules of conduct the posts stay. Just like yours.

    It's clear that you support Brad. That's good. Keep supporting him. Maybe he'll make something of this. My guess is probably not.

    Also, do you really think at the time Brad took that money anyone thought they would secure additional funding to make this project happen? The KS failed in spectacular fashion and then they were only able to pull in about 150K in funding? I think anyone that believes that, including Brad, is being willfully naive.

    While I agree with everthing you've said in this post, particularly the part about naivety (which is why i didnt donate to the post kickstarter website), i still just feel like you made your original article because you just couldn't resist the urge to say "I told ya so".  I question if the article was even necessary.  Usually you guys will do articles that spark discussions that need to be had.  In my opinion this discussion didn't need to be had again, and i think the overall tone of the responses on the article indicate exactly why it didn't need to be had.

    I definitely do think this discussion needs to be had and as many times as possible so that alot of players who may or may not know alot of mmorpg history don't have to be taken advantage of and be a little more wary crowdfunding.

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