EQN vs. EQN:L

rawfox · April 2014

Im confused ...

What is EQN and what not ?

Same for Landmark, whats the thing here ?

Some say its 2 different games, others say its the same thing.

Can someone enlighten me please ?

Oceanhawk · April 2014

EQN is the MMORPG to be released by SOE sometime in the next 2 years. EQN-L has been changed to the name "Landmark." Both utilize the same game engine but Landmark is more about building, kinda like Minecraft on steroids, while Everquest Next is a typical MMORPG.

Nanfoodle · April 2014

Both games will share a lot of the same systems but different game play. So things like weather, day night cycle will all be pooled. From there, very different games. Its as said above, Landmark like Minecraft, EQN more like WoW or GW2 kinda thing. We dont have much details as to the game and combat other then some very simple concepts.

GXRranger · April 2014

Aww man I was looking at EQN est. rel date of 2014. Now you say 2 years? what a pisser. I have to go find a freaking game to play now.

Status:Development (est.rel 2014)

Nadia · April 2014

Originally posted by GXRranger
Aww man I was looking at EQN est. rel date of 2014.

Smed AMA from 01/25/14
http://www.eqnextfans.com/news/27123-john-smedleys-ama-on-eq-next-and-eqn-landmark

What does the Long Term release look like for EQN? Will it be around the end of this year, or does it look more like late next year?

John: not sure yet. Likely sometime next year.

zellmer · May 2014

Just wondering why the site combined Landmark and Next into the same game for some reason..

Nanfoodle · May 2014

Originally posted by zellmer
Just wondering why the site combined Landmark and Next into the same game for some reason..

EQL is no longer, its now just Landmark. Landmark has its own page on mmorpg.com but people keep posting info here about it because they share a lot of system. Crafting, weather, day night cycle etc. So posting Landmark info here is not bad as its also ENQ info.

CLICK HERE for Landmarks page.

zellmer · May 2014

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by zellmer
Just wondering why the site combined Landmark and Next into the same game for some reason..

EQL is no longer, its now just Landmark. Landmark has its own page on mmorpg.com but people keep posting info here about it because they share a lot of system. Crafting, weather, day night cycle etc. So posting Landmark info here is not bad as its also ENQ info.

CLICK HERE for Landmarks page.

Ok, fair enough I suppose, heh.

bcbully · May 2014

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by zellmer
Just wondering why the site combined Landmark and Next into the same game for some reason..

EQL is no longer, its now just Landmark. Landmark has its own page on mmorpg.com but people keep posting info here about it because they share a lot of system. Crafting, weather, day night cycle etc. So posting Landmark info here is not bad as its also ENQ info.

CLICK HERE for Landmarks page.

I hope they don't share the same crafting system. That would be a huge drag to people looking forward to next gen systems. Crafting in Landmark is last gens system, like 2004.

Nanfoodle · May 2014

Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by zellmer
Just wondering why the site combined Landmark and Next into the same game for some reason..

EQL is no longer, its now just Landmark. Landmark has its own page on mmorpg.com but people keep posting info here about it because they share a lot of system. Crafting, weather, day night cycle etc. So posting Landmark info here is not bad as its also ENQ info.

CLICK HERE for Landmarks page.

I hope they don't share the same crafting system. That would be a huge drag to people looking forward to next gen systems. Crafting in Landmark is last gens system, like 2004.

Yup that is the current plan... Landmark is what they are using to build EQN. Only the most hardcore Minecraft type player will stick with Landmark over EQN when it finally launches.

Nadia · May 2014

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Only the most hardcore Minecraft type player will stick with Landmark over EQN when it finally launches.

or players that want a different theme

EQN is fantasy only theme

- and we all know the fantasy theme is a dime a dozen

Dullahan · May 2014

Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along. After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior. For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

Nanfoodle · May 2014

Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along. After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior. For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Dullahan · May 2014

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along. After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior. For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

Allein · May 2014

Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

I agree with this for the most part.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along.

Proof? Very easy to make such a bold claim, but you are basing this off of what? The reveal panels that give a blueprint, all the dev feedback videos/polls/posts? While we might not have the whole picture, to claim they have "no idea" is pretty strong based on what I do not know.

After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

While this was 2 months after the reveal on Oct 2nd, it was still much earlier then Closed Beta or Alpha. Fact check.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/10/02/everquest-next-landmark-is-much-more-than-a-world-builder/

For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

There is no guidelines that SOE or any company has to follow. It should be pretty obvious my now that the ways of old are being tossed out the window. Devs being more transparent in development, early access, F2P, etc are not reliant on Alpha = X, Beta = Y.

For all intents and purposes, Landmark in it's current state could easily be considered almost feature complete going by what they initially revealed, but they've decided to give the players every tool possible which will continue the development process for a long time if not ever.

There will never be a "gold" edition or real "release". They've already said that Open Beta will pretty much be the soft release. F2P removes a lot of the restrictions of needing to slap $60 on a "finished" product which almost never turns out to be the case.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs. Building is just the foundation and it doesn't take a huge leap to get from "just a building game" to a game where you can be a mini-dev so to speak. As you said, Landmark is some what of a test bed of EQN. Why would they not throw in combat, AI, quests, crafting, etc. Makes zero sense. Even Minecraft which there are obvious connections, has many of these elements.

Should they have given a long detailed bullet list at reveal? Maybe. But then if something doesn't end up in the game or whatever, time for players to bring the pitchforks.

But this is kind of the point of the whole process they are using. Bring in the players and have them shape the game and it's development. If 99% of the players only wanted building on their claim, I'm sure that's all we'd get. But from the feedback it should be very clear that players want to actually "build a mmo" not just a pretty little house.

The initial reveal presented a toy for players to play with. What it is turning into is an actual game/mmo for players to create and be a part of.

With all that said, I'm still only looking for EQN. Landmark is fun, but I lack the creativity for the current game. Once all the elements are in and the real creative types get their hands on the tools, I'll probably head back and see what they have cooked up.

giga1000 · May 2014

Originally posted by rawfox
Im confused ...

What is EQN and what not ?

Same for Landmark, whats the thing here ?

Some say its 2 different games, others say its the same thing.

Can someone enlighten me please ?

Well... Landmark is a build your own MMO as SoE has stated many times. it isn't just a building game but a game where you play do etc what every you want. Here is what is being added to game https://forums.station.sony.com/landmark/index.php?threads/the-new-improved-blueprint-4-29-14.34413/.

EQN is a themed game that is Lore driven. Classes, lore, etc

Both games have combat but in different ways. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF77NQBgarc here is a break down.

Landmark isn't just a build game. If you look at the features that are still being added in the blueprint you will see. Again the best way to describe Landmark is it is a Build your own MMO. There are no classes but instead your weapon will determine what you do. Also all skills/abilitys you will have to craft to use. You also need to explore and find/unlocks these recipes. What we see in the game for crafting now is not the intended crafting. It is just a dumbed down version so we can test mechanics. Crafting 2.0 will be when we see more of what the intended crafting is supposed to be like. We are in closed beta and almost everything will improve or be revamped many times as stated by SoE. In the end by Open beta it will not be the same as we are testing now.

EQN is like I stated above. All system tools are built for EQN first then added to landmark for us to play with. In the end EQN will have a lot of stuff from Landmark after it is tested in Landmark and tweeked then added to EQN in a different way that fits the lore/game style. the crafting in both games will be different but the same systems. We will test the systems and break them then they will be remade and we will break them again. In the end this should make the system very good when it is added to both games but implemented in different ways. EQN has 40+ classes more like traditional MMO's. There is trinity but not the way all other MMO's have used it. This has to do with the AI that SOE and Storybricks have made together. this AI will also be for all NPC's as well including Merch, Guards, Critters, etc.

This is about as much as we know from what SOE has stated about EQN. If you want to know what systems are being built for EQN watch Landmark but understand they will be implemented differently being they are very different MMO's with very different focuses.

Nanfoodle · May 2014

Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

I agree with this for the most part.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along.

Proof? Very easy to make such a bold claim, but you are basing this off of what? The reveal panels that give a blueprint, all the dev feedback videos/polls/posts? While we might not have the whole picture, to claim they have "no idea" is pretty strong based on what I do not know.

After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

While this was 2 months after the reveal on Oct 2nd, it was still much earlier then Closed Beta or Alpha. Fact check.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/10/02/everquest-next-landmark-is-much-more-than-a-world-builder/

For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

There is no guidelines that SOE or any company has to follow. It should be pretty obvious my now that the ways of old are being tossed out the window. Devs being more transparent in development, early access, F2P, etc are not reliant on Alpha = X, Beta = Y.

For all intents and purposes, Landmark in it's current state could easily be considered almost feature complete going by what they initially revealed, but they've decided to give the players every tool possible which will continue the development process for a long time if not ever.

There will never be a "gold" edition or real "release". They've already said that Open Beta will pretty much be the soft release. F2P removes a lot of the restrictions of needing to slap $60 on a "finished" product which almost never turns out to be the case.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs. Building is just the foundation and it doesn't take a huge leap to get from "just a building game" to a game where you can be a mini-dev so to speak. As you said, Landmark is some what of a test bed of EQN. Why would they not throw in combat, AI, quests, crafting, etc. Makes zero sense. Even Minecraft which there are obvious connections, has many of these elements.

Should they have given a long detailed bullet list at reveal? Maybe. But then if something doesn't end up in the game or whatever, time for players to bring the pitchforks.

But this is kind of the point of the whole process they are using. Bring in the players and have them shape the game and it's development. If 99% of the players only wanted building on their claim, I'm sure that's all we'd get. But from the feedback it should be very clear that players want to actually "build a mmo" not just a pretty little house.

The initial reveal presented a toy for players to play with. What it is turning into is an actual game/mmo for players to create and be a part of.

With all that said, I'm still only looking for EQN. Landmark is fun, but I lack the creativity for the current game. Once all the elements are in and the real creative types get their hands on the tools, I'll probably head back and see what they have cooked up.

Shows how little people read what the devs post. Combat has been on the table from the start. Mobs being added has always been the plan.

azarhal · May 2014

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

I agree with this for the most part.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along.

Proof? Very easy to make such a bold claim, but you are basing this off of what? The reveal panels that give a blueprint, all the dev feedback videos/polls/posts? While we might not have the whole picture, to claim they have "no idea" is pretty strong based on what I do not know.

After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

While this was 2 months after the reveal on Oct 2nd, it was still much earlier then Closed Beta or Alpha. Fact check.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/10/02/everquest-next-landmark-is-much-more-than-a-world-builder/

For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

There is no guidelines that SOE or any company has to follow. It should be pretty obvious my now that the ways of old are being tossed out the window. Devs being more transparent in development, early access, F2P, etc are not reliant on Alpha = X, Beta = Y.

For all intents and purposes, Landmark in it's current state could easily be considered almost feature complete going by what they initially revealed, but they've decided to give the players every tool possible which will continue the development process for a long time if not ever.

There will never be a "gold" edition or real "release". They've already said that Open Beta will pretty much be the soft release. F2P removes a lot of the restrictions of needing to slap $60 on a "finished" product which almost never turns out to be the case.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs. Building is just the foundation and it doesn't take a huge leap to get from "just a building game" to a game where you can be a mini-dev so to speak. As you said, Landmark is some what of a test bed of EQN. Why would they not throw in combat, AI, quests, crafting, etc. Makes zero sense. Even Minecraft which there are obvious connections, has many of these elements.

Should they have given a long detailed bullet list at reveal? Maybe. But then if something doesn't end up in the game or whatever, time for players to bring the pitchforks.

But this is kind of the point of the whole process they are using. Bring in the players and have them shape the game and it's development. If 99% of the players only wanted building on their claim, I'm sure that's all we'd get. But from the feedback it should be very clear that players want to actually "build a mmo" not just a pretty little house.

The initial reveal presented a toy for players to play with. What it is turning into is an actual game/mmo for players to create and be a part of.

With all that said, I'm still only looking for EQN. Landmark is fun, but I lack the creativity for the current game. Once all the elements are in and the real creative types get their hands on the tools, I'll probably head back and see what they have cooked up.

Shows how little people read what the devs post. Combat has been on the table from the start. Mobs being added has always been the plan.

Indeed. The current Landmark roadmap reveals exactly when they are adding combat (and lots of stuff), the previous one always mentioned it and that since the early days of the alpha (I know I was there day one). Combat in Landmark was even mentioned at SOE live last year.

Dullahan · May 2014

Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

I agree with this for the most part.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along.

Proof? Very easy to make such a bold claim, but you are basing this off of what? The reveal panels that give a blueprint, all the dev feedback videos/polls/posts? While we might not have the whole picture, to claim they have "no idea" is pretty strong based on what I do not know.

After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

While this was 2 months after the reveal on Oct 2nd, it was still much earlier then Closed Beta or Alpha. Fact check.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/10/02/everquest-next-landmark-is-much-more-than-a-world-builder/

For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

There is no guidelines that SOE or any company has to follow. It should be pretty obvious my now that the ways of old are being tossed out the window. Devs being more transparent in development, early access, F2P, etc are not reliant on Alpha = X, Beta = Y.

For all intents and purposes, Landmark in it's current state could easily be considered almost feature complete going by what they initially revealed, but they've decided to give the players every tool possible which will continue the development process for a long time if not ever.

There will never be a "gold" edition or real "release". They've already said that Open Beta will pretty much be the soft release. F2P removes a lot of the restrictions of needing to slap $60 on a "finished" product which almost never turns out to be the case.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs.

Its a fact that they didn't. What was once one thing, became another just prior to releasing the finished product.

Thanks for the confirmation!

Dullahan · May 2014

Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

I agree with this for the most part.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along.

Proof? Very easy to make such a bold claim, but you are basing this off of what? The reveal panels that give a blueprint, all the dev feedback videos/polls/posts? While we might not have the whole picture, to claim they have "no idea" is pretty strong based on what I do not know.

After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

While this was 2 months after the reveal on Oct 2nd, it was still much earlier then Closed Beta or Alpha. Fact check.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/10/02/everquest-next-landmark-is-much-more-than-a-world-builder/

For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

There is no guidelines that SOE or any company has to follow. It should be pretty obvious my now that the ways of old are being tossed out the window. Devs being more transparent in development, early access, F2P, etc are not reliant on Alpha = X, Beta = Y.

For all intents and purposes, Landmark in it's current state could easily be considered almost feature complete going by what they initially revealed, but they've decided to give the players every tool possible which will continue the development process for a long time if not ever.

There will never be a "gold" edition or real "release". They've already said that Open Beta will pretty much be the soft release. F2P removes a lot of the restrictions of needing to slap $60 on a "finished" product which almost never turns out to be the case.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs. Building is just the foundation and it doesn't take a huge leap to get from "just a building game" to a game where you can be a mini-dev so to speak. As you said, Landmark is some what of a test bed of EQN. Why would they not throw in combat, AI, quests, crafting, etc. Makes zero sense. Even Minecraft which there are obvious connections, has many of these elements.

Should they have given a long detailed bullet list at reveal? Maybe. But then if something doesn't end up in the game or whatever, time for players to bring the pitchforks.

But this is kind of the point of the whole process they are using. Bring in the players and have them shape the game and it's development. If 99% of the players only wanted building on their claim, I'm sure that's all we'd get. But from the feedback it should be very clear that players want to actually "build a mmo" not just a pretty little house.

The initial reveal presented a toy for players to play with. What it is turning into is an actual game/mmo for players to create and be a part of.

With all that said, I'm still only looking for EQN. Landmark is fun, but I lack the creativity for the current game. Once all the elements are in and the real creative types get their hands on the tools, I'll probably head back and see what they have cooked up.

Shows how little people read what the devs post. Combat has been on the table from the start. Mobs being added has always been the plan.

Indeed. The current Landmark roadmap reveals exactly when they are adding combat (and lots of stuff), the previous one always mentioned it and that since the early days of the alpha (I know I was there day one). Combat in Landmark was even mentioned at SOE live last year.

As someone there when it was announced, I tell you thats false. But if you wan't to believe this, nothing I tell you will change your mind, no matter how many times I quote the exact plan for Landmark stated last summer at E3.

Dullahan · May 2014

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
Landmark is a test bed for EQ Next with building. Its a standalone game but they also keep announcing features out of the blue trying to make it more of a game and less just a building simulator. Eventually as they develop the resources for EQ Next, you will see them begin to appear in Landmark in more primitive forms. For instance, we probably won't see classes, but we will see weapons and their subsequent abilities (every weapon has abilities tied to it). Eventually they may even add class abilities. My guess is that eventually Landmark will be EQ Next without the content, meaning few to no quests, probably few cities and no dungeons outside of whats created by the players.

I agree with this for the most part.

Lot of this is just being pieced together, but like EQ Next, they really have no idea what they want to do and are just making it up as they go along.

Proof? Very easy to make such a bold claim, but you are basing this off of what? The reveal panels that give a blueprint, all the dev feedback videos/polls/posts? While we might not have the whole picture, to claim they have "no idea" is pretty strong based on what I do not know.

After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

While this was 2 months after the reveal on Oct 2nd, it was still much earlier then Closed Beta or Alpha. Fact check.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/10/02/everquest-next-landmark-is-much-more-than-a-world-builder/

For those of you who don't know how a development process works, beta = feature complete with testing of systems and quality assurance. In Landmark, Beta = pre Alpha where they just add new ideas in when they come up with them.

There is no guidelines that SOE or any company has to follow. It should be pretty obvious my now that the ways of old are being tossed out the window. Devs being more transparent in development, early access, F2P, etc are not reliant on Alpha = X, Beta = Y.

For all intents and purposes, Landmark in it's current state could easily be considered almost feature complete going by what they initially revealed, but they've decided to give the players every tool possible which will continue the development process for a long time if not ever.

There will never be a "gold" edition or real "release". They've already said that Open Beta will pretty much be the soft release. F2P removes a lot of the restrictions of needing to slap $60 on a "finished" product which almost never turns out to be the case.

Thanks for all the conjecture. Was fun =-) The day SoE just goes down a garden path with no clue I will call you, till then I will trust their long record of making and backing MMOs that have done very well.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs. Building is just the foundation and it doesn't take a huge leap to get from "just a building game" to a game where you can be a mini-dev so to speak. As you said, Landmark is some what of a test bed of EQN. Why would they not throw in combat, AI, quests, crafting, etc. Makes zero sense. Even Minecraft which there are obvious connections, has many of these elements.

Should they have given a long detailed bullet list at reveal? Maybe. But then if something doesn't end up in the game or whatever, time for players to bring the pitchforks.

But this is kind of the point of the whole process they are using. Bring in the players and have them shape the game and it's development. If 99% of the players only wanted building on their claim, I'm sure that's all we'd get. But from the feedback it should be very clear that players want to actually "build a mmo" not just a pretty little house.

The initial reveal presented a toy for players to play with. What it is turning into is an actual game/mmo for players to create and be a part of.

With all that said, I'm still only looking for EQN. Landmark is fun, but I lack the creativity for the current game. Once all the elements are in and the real creative types get their hands on the tools, I'll probably head back and see what they have cooked up.

Shows how little people read what the devs post. Combat has been on the table from the start. Mobs being added has always been the plan.

Nope.

Nadia · May 2014

the first announcement of Landmark combat -- 7 weeks after SOE Live

Sept 24, 2013

https://twitter.com/DaveGeorgeson/status/382508111132508160

I've been asked to leak something.

Landmark will have combat elements. Maybe not right at launch, but it's coming. Begin speculation.

Allein · May 2014

Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Dullahan
After the closed beta started and they announced many of these features including combat systems that had never even been mentioned prior.

Yes, I'm sure they announced brand new features never before mentioned that completely change the nature of the game, just prior to open beta because they've planned them all along. Thats called improvising. SOE saw what they created was only appealing to a small number of people, so they changed the game. Thats not conjecture, thats an observation.

If SOE didn't have the plan that they do now, planned all along, they are pretty bad devs.

Its a fact that they didn't. What was once one thing, became another just prior to releasing the finished product.

Thanks for the confirmation!

June E3 - Behind the scenes reveal to the press and whomever was special enough (apparently you?)

Aug 2nd Landmark revealed

Sept 24th combat hinted at

Oct 2nd combat and other WIP announced fully (could of been sooner, not checking that much)

Nov 11th Founder's Packs and EA dates announced

Jan 31st Alpha

Feb 13th Roadmap released, which I believe included Combat along with many other things beyond "building."

March 26th Closed Beta

Combat was hinted at 53 days after the reveal and fully revealed 9 days after (if not sooner). Which was 183 days before Closed Beta began and who knows how many until a "finished" product is released, although I don't believe it will ever be "finished".

Unless I'm an idiot (wouldn't be the first time), Sept/Oct 2013 came before March 2014. Then again, not sure what date you are picking as you've said Combat was announced after Closed Beta, that things were announced just prior to releasing a finished product, and that you were at E3 and made it behind the curtain.

Regardless of what they initially revealed or what they've even revealed now, what's your point. Honestly don't even know what this discussion is about lol. They are making a game with the help of fans and I'm not sure why you or anyone would think this is a bad idea, if that is even the case.

If you are just trying to win an argument or prove something, not sure what or why. SOE didn't pull a fast one on anyone that I can see. Again, could they have revealed more at the start, yep, does it change anything, nope. I haven't seen a huge backlash of fans going "OMG all I want to do is build on my claim and that's it!" Guess why? Cause you can still do that regardless of what they do to the game.

At this point I'm not sure what this is about, so unless you have some meaning behind what you are going on about, I'll give you the cookie!

Do you know what facts are? SOE could have had it planned all along and decided to slow release info, regardless of what they presented at any given time. We don't know, unless you work on the Landmark team at SOE. Which I'm assuming you don't. I don't remember them stating "Landmark will ONLY be X forever and ever and ever, we won't add anything." If I missed that statement, please correct me. It isn't unheard of for a company making any type of product to add/remove things as development happens. If you were personally injured in some way because they decided to make a game that a large audience is eating up or because they didn't fully disclose everything regardless if it was ready or even a sure thing, I'm sorry on behalf of SOE. I think they have more then made up for it with their new approach at development and being as transparent as possible.

Allein · May 2014

Originally posted by Dullahan
As someone there when it was announced, I tell you thats false. But if you wan't to believe this, nothing I tell you will change your mind, no matter how many times I quote the exact plan for Landmark stated last summer at E3.

Can you quote this exact plan from E3? I seem to have missed it if you already have. Are you talking about SOE Live?

Gallus85 · May 2014

Very strange that people assumed incorrectly that landmark wouldn't have combat. They always had plans to have combat and mobs in Landmark.

Dave Georgeson at the SOE Live reveal talked about getting leather from killing mobs / animals. Back in Oct 2013 they talked about EQN and EQNL sharing combat systems. This is old news.

Allein · May 2014

Originally posted by Gallus85
Very strange that people assumed incorrectly that landmark wouldn't have combat. They always had plans to have combat and mobs in Landmark.

Dave Georgeson at the SOE Live reveal talked about getting leather from killing mobs / animals. Back in Oct 2013 they talked about EQN and EQNL sharing combat systems. This is old news.

Unfortunately, unless people go through the hours of SOE Live video, multiple articles, written/video interviews, twitter/reddit/forum comments, read into Landmark info that relates to EQN, etc it is hard to know everything.

I'm betting many don't even know SOE Live exists to begin with. Still wondering if the poster above was talking about E3 or SOE Live as they are sort of used as the same thing.

Would be nice if SOE took a bit of time and condensed all the known info into some sort of official FAQ beyond the vague stuff they have on the site, but I'm guessing that is up to fans at this point.

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