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VR grind unacceptable

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  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103
    Originally posted by ultrastoat

    Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?

    And if your enjoying the RPG, why not understand that they had to shut down the leveling in PVP and dungeons because of exploiters.   This is the real reason you have nothing more to do then to do Quests.    Either wait until they can find a way to implement what you want or suck it up and level with what you have right now.   Its not Zenimax's fault that thousands of players wanted to exploit Dungeon and PVP xp is it?

  • CoffeeBreakCoffeeBreak Member Posts: 236
    Originally posted by ultrastoat
    Originally posted by Knotwood
     

    I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience.   But you shouldn't be selfish enough to try to crap on the RPG fans of  this game, by asking them to change questing in it, because you think its a grind and want to PVP and Dungeon xp ONLY.    Wait until they fix PVP and dungeon xp is fixed instead,  don't try to crap on RPG fans instead.

    I think you're taking a legitimate gripe about a newly launched MMO a bit too personally...

     

    The question is...has Knotwood made it to VR1 and from a roleplaying point of view does what occurs next actually make any sense at all?

  • ultrastoatultrastoat Member Posts: 172
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by ultrastoat

    Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?

    And if your enjoying the RPG, why not understand that they had to shut down the leveling in PVP and dungeons because of exploiters.   This is the real reason you have nothing more to do then to do Quests.    Either wait until they can find a way to implement what you want or suck it up and level with what you have right now.   Its not Zenimax's fault that thousands of players wanted to exploit Dungeon and PVP xp is it?

    I think you're applying your own personal interpretation of the "RPG" experience as a blanket term for everyone playing this game.

    It's Zenimax's fault for creating a dungeon system that was this easily exploitable in the first place, and it's even more so their fault for nerfing Dungeon and PVP XP this badly. You can't really blame players for doing something that the game code (unaltered) allows them to do.

  • dbgagerdbgager Member UncommonPosts: 175
    The journey is more fun than the destination. problem is a lot of people are jsut playing for the end game. Myself I am playing for the journey to get to the endgame. The day I hit max level in WOW was the very same day I stopped playing that character and started a new one.
  • ultrastoatultrastoat Member Posts: 172
    Originally posted by CoffeeBreak
    Originally posted by ultrastoat
    Originally posted by Knotwood
     

    I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience.   But you shouldn't be selfish enough to try to crap on the RPG fans of  this game, by asking them to change questing in it, because you think its a grind and want to PVP and Dungeon xp ONLY.    Wait until they fix PVP and dungeon xp is fixed instead,  don't try to crap on RPG fans instead.

    I think you're taking a legitimate gripe about a newly launched MMO a bit too personally...

     

    The question is...has Knotwood made it to VR1 and from a roleplaying point of view does what occurs next actually make any sense at all?

    lol, a very valid point. I think Knotwood is mostly focusing on the "role playing" aspect of this RPG, whereas a lot of people simply don't engage that much on that level.

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103
    Originally posted by ultrastoat
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by ultrastoat

    Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?

    And if your enjoying the RPG, why not understand that they had to shut down the leveling in PVP and dungeons because of exploiters.   This is the real reason you have nothing more to do then to do Quests.    Either wait until they can find a way to implement what you want or suck it up and level with what you have right now.   Its not Zenimax's fault that thousands of players wanted to exploit Dungeon and PVP xp is it?

    I think you're applying your own personal interpretation of the "RPG" experience as a blanket term for everyone playing this game.

    It's Zenimax's fault for creating a dungeon system that was this easily exploitable in the first place, and it's even more so their fault for nerfing Dungeon and PVP XP this badly. You can't really blame players for doing something that the game code (unaltered) allows them to do.

    The problem with not cutting the xp this badley is that you would see what we are already seeing right now in dungeons,  You'd see more botting, because its halfway decent enough to do, or even a quarter of the way enough to do.   Botters will exploit anything if its even a hint of worthwhile to it because they can do it without being at the keyboard for hours on end.   

     

    I remember in FFXI, they cut skill ups of fishing so low because of botting and what they did was force even more people to bot fish, eventually fishing was so crapy that no one did it, but the botters kept doing it because it was a hint of worthwile to do,  handing over the entire fish economy to botters and exploiters.   I'm glad Zenimax stops it, even if it means shutting down Dungeon and PVP xp.

  • ButeoRegalisButeoRegalis Member UncommonPosts: 594
    Originally posted by Knotwood

     If you are a person who likes the quests and storyline, and play this game for the RPG in it, then  it should take a very long time to get to VR 10 through quests.   It means there is content there, and that's good news to those of us who are playing this game for RPG purposes.

     

    I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience.   If you think VR10 should be handed to you only one week into the game, I'm sorry but there is other games out there for you.  

    If you enjoy the RP experience so much why do you need to be rewarded with VRs for playing through it? Isn't the journey reward enough? How would it hurt you if they decouple VRs from the quest grind, or at least speed it up?

    image

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103
    Originally posted by noturpal
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by ultrastoat

    Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?

    And if your enjoying the RPG, why not understand that they had to shut down the leveling in PVP and dungeons because of exploiters.   This is the real reason you have nothing more to do then to do Quests.    Either wait until they can find a way to implement what you want or suck it up and level with what you have right now.   Its not Zenimax's fault that thousands of players wanted to exploit Dungeon and PVP xp is it?

    [mod edit]

    I just use common sense,  like the fact that they are looking into fixing it right now...   How can you ignore the fact that they have already added some daily quests to PVP so that there is still a half assed path of xp in PVP.    They are working on fixing the situation,  they are working on DEVELOPING A FIX!   Do you not understand that part?   When a company does not foresee a hack they cant just snap their fingers and fix it.   It takes time to fix it....

     

    If its their fault for getting hacked, I suppose they should be as secure as the banks who got millions stolen from ATM's in New York....      If a bank cant even secure money, how do you expect Zenimax to foresee every single hack and exploit.    There will always be hackers and exploiters.    Lets use a little common sense when looking at these issues, and no game company is going to always foresee their weaknesses,  that's why they have fixes and patches for this kind of stuff.

     

    As far as being around in beta and being reported, the dungeon xp exploits were not found out until closer to launch...   They did not have time to fix it in time for launch...  Would you rather not be playing the game until they fixed it?   Keep in mind that most exploiters do not exploit until launch also.  Its beter they do it now when they can find out if it can be exploited again and continue to make it more secure afterwards.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,967
    Didnt ZM shut down the exp from every area of the game but questing? After they talked about for years about all the ways you could level? Or am I missing something?
  • carpalcarpal Member UncommonPosts: 99

    I really don't understand.  The game has been out , what 3 weeks, and already there are complaints about not being able to reach the endgame?

    The way I am moving through the game, doubt I will reach VR10 this year, doubt I will even play it that long.  If you aren't enjoying your experience (unlike a shit job), then quit it for a while, go build a barn or something.

  • Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by noturpal
    Originally posted by Knotwood
    Originally posted by ultrastoat

    Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?

    And if your enjoying the RPG, why not understand that they had to shut down the leveling in PVP and dungeons because of exploiters.   This is the real reason you have nothing more to do then to do Quests.    Either wait until they can find a way to implement what you want or suck it up and level with what you have right now.   Its not Zenimax's fault that thousands of players wanted to exploit Dungeon and PVP xp is it?

    [mod edit]

    I just use common sense,  like the fact that they are looking into fixing it right now...   How can you ignore the fact that they have already added some daily quests to PVP so that there is still a half assed path of xp in PVP.    They are working on fixing the situation,  they are working on DEVELOPING A FIX!   Do you not understand that part?   When a company does not foresee a hack they cant just snap their fingers and fix it.   It takes time to fix it....

     

    If its their fault for getting hacked, I suppose they should be as secure as the banks who got millions stolen from ATM's in New York....      If a bank cant even secure money, how do you expect Zenimax to foresee every single hack and exploit.    There will always be hackers and exploiters.    Lets use a little common sense when looking at these issues, and no game company is going to always foresee their weaknesses,  that's why they have fixes and patches for this kind of stuff.

     

    As far as being around in beta and being reported, the dungeon xp exploits were not found out until closer to launch...   They did not have time to fix it in time for launch...  Would you rather not be playing the game until they fixed it?   Keep in mind that most exploiters do not exploit until launch also.  Its beter they do it now when they can find out if it can be exploited again and continue to make it more secure afterwards.

    all of that is someone's fault.  When we had to patch crazy amounts of systems because the date only used 2 digits it was someones fault, and that fault was known and passed along, it could have been avoided.

    zenimax could have more/bigger betas, none of that matters.  Everything that happens in-game is a result of what zenimax has done.

     

    Launch is like a test, when you get a test you don't get to tell the teacher wait lemme study 3 more weeks.  When you fail You fail, and zenimax imo failed 

  • ultrastoatultrastoat Member Posts: 172
    Originally posted by carpal

    I really don't understand.  The game has been out , what 3 weeks, and already there are complaints about not being able to reach the endgame?

    The way I am moving through the game, doubt I will reach VR10 this year, doubt I will even play it that long.  If you aren't enjoying your experience (unlike a shit job), then quit it for a while, go build a barn or something.

    Some of us play for more than an hour a day

  • carpalcarpal Member UncommonPosts: 99
    Originally posted by ultrastoat
    Originally posted by carpal

    I really don't understand.  The game has been out , what 3 weeks, and already there are complaints about not being able to reach the endgame?

    The way I am moving through the game, doubt I will reach VR10 this year, doubt I will even play it that long.  If you aren't enjoying your experience (unlike a shit job), then quit it for a while, go build a barn or something.

    Some of us play for more than an hour a day

    Then you will reach VR10 much faster than someone who plays for less than an hour a day.  Oh I see.  Since you are committed to spending all your free time to playing, therefore you should be special and automatically get access immediately to everything, right now.  

  • ultrastoatultrastoat Member Posts: 172
    Originally posted by carpal
    Originally posted by ultrastoat
    Originally posted by carpal

    I really don't understand.  The game has been out , what 3 weeks, and already there are complaints about not being able to reach the endgame?

    The way I am moving through the game, doubt I will reach VR10 this year, doubt I will even play it that long.  If you aren't enjoying your experience (unlike a shit job), then quit it for a while, go build a barn or something.

    Some of us play for more than an hour a day

    Then you will reach VR10 much faster than someone who plays for less than an hour a day.  Oh I see.  Since you are committed to spending all your free time to playing, therefore you should be special and automatically get access immediately to everything, right now.  

    I don't think you understand the point we're all trying to make here.

  • ErdaErda Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Originally posted by udon

    I think as time goes on we will see more options to get from VR1 to VR10 or whatever.  I like the option to do the other 2 factions content but I think there should be alternative if equally as time consuming options like PVP and group PVE.  The large group content in May might be a alternative depending on how it's designed.  At least I certainly hope so.

     I think that you make a really good point here.  I'm of the mindset that there should be alternative ways to level whether it be grinding mobs, dungeon crawling, PvPing or questing.  Personally I don't mind questing but I realize it isn't everyone's cup of tea.  Hopefully as time goes on, the devs will listen and adjust things accordingly.

    I'm a measly 21 with my highest character so I have a long way to go before the veteran ranks.

     

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,256
    Originally posted by indef
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    The grind isn't bad at all... I've been veteran for about 4 days now and I'm already VR3.

    Oh my naive friend, so cute.

     

    VR6-10 takes about 150 hours of questing.  VR 1-5 takes about 50.  Again, these numbers are assuming you listen to absolutely nothing and only "grind" quests as fast as possible.

    So VR 1 -10 takes 200 hours of questing, which is roughly 8.3 days played right?

    How long from 1-50 on average you think, maybe 100 hours? So 12.5 days played right?

    My first Paladin in WOW took me 16.5 days played to get to level 50.  Then I started the gear grind.  Must have put in like over 50 day's played on that character I think.

    Lineage 2, I never did get to max level at launch, but after 6 months of playing I was about level 52 in a 70 level game and my estimates had it about 1.5 years for me to reach that level, so I quit.

    So not really seeing what the problem is....you folks have no patience?

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  • ohioastroohioastro Member UncommonPosts: 534

    What some people here are calling "a tedious grind" is what I call "playing the actual game."  It's really bizarre that some MMO players have defined everything prior to the end of the game as some horrible chore to plow through as quickly as possible.

    Now, if you're looking at a mature game where all of the players are at the high end I can see the point.  But why treat a new release this way?

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308

    So there's no leveling in Cyrodiil even for VR leveling?

    Actually, OP, wait for Craglorn adventure zone. It's likely you hit the cap WAY TOO FUCKING FAST before they added a lot of end-game content.

    I don't know, man, I've been enjoying the game and its stories up until now. Been playing since launch and only level 20. Seems like no point in getting to the cap at the moment aside from PvP, so taking my time.

    I know they're developing and adding more ways to level VR soon. Hopefully I don't hit 50 before some are added.

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    Just allow for meaningful progress from 10-vr12 through pvp. People will still quest for skill points, gear, unlocking different skill trees,etc.. they just might enjoy it, too, since they wouldn't be forced into it

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  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    All of you complaining about the grind make me laugh.  If people cant reach max level in everything within a month its a GRIND.  Go play another game than, this game was not made with your thought process in mind
  • BK2O1BK2O1 Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Originally posted by goboygo
    All of you complaining about the grind make me laugh.  If people cant reach max level in everything within a month its a GRIND.  Go play another game than, this game was not made with your thought process in mind

    this ^ 

     

    lol

  • SuperchieftianSuperchieftian Member Posts: 88

    Half the people complain leveling is too easy and the other half complain it is too hard.

     

    Great stuff here.

  • ShephardShephard Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by Superchieftian

    Half the people complain leveling is too easy and the other half complain it is too hard.

     

    Great stuff here.

    I like the game and I like the questing.  And wouldn't mind getting to VR10, but the problem is questing is the best way to get to VR10.  There needs to just as efficient alternatives out there.

    If I was ZoS I would make adventure zones VR5+.  Because getting to VR5 isn't bad, but I don't think most people even fans of the game will want to get to VR10.

  • Bluefear77Bluefear77 Member UncommonPosts: 112

    This thread is an interesting discussion.

    After reading this thread there is clearly an issue with the VR leveling experience. There should be other options to leveling VR ranks than just questing. But the game  doesn't have the content to address this issue. Yet, I'm  sure once dungeon and pvp experience is balanced those wil be viable alternatives.

    But for you to claim people are unreasonable for wanting alternatives to questing for VR ranks Is unfair ( this is coming from a RPer who is only level 20 with a character in each faction). Forced questing for 300+ hours is a pretty unreasonable expectation. I'm sure Zenomax will address the issue. Keep in mind the game hasn't even been out a month. Some very simple measures could be added to address the problem.

  • bobfishbobfish Member UncommonPosts: 1,679
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by goboygo
    All of you complaining about the grind make me laugh.  If people cant reach max level in everything within a month its a GRIND.  Go play another game than, this game was not made with your thought process in mind

    Again  you are missing the point entirely.

    It can be done easily in a month (I'm VR8) - the issue is - it's beyond tedius and beyond boring. I've grouped and met a lot of VR players not a SINGLE one so far has said that they enjoyed it - it was just something to get out of the way - a chore to be completed.

    IMO in current state - the vast majority of ESO players simply will never see VR2, let alone anything above VR5 because the grind from VR5 to VR10 is unreal.

    If anything feels like a GRIND - it means it's not fun.

    That's the issue.

    If VR1- VR10 took 2 years but the entire time it was fun, nobody would complain.

    The issue is - IT IS NOT FUN - it's tedious and boring (my opinion)

     

    This and just this.

     

    ESO is a game, it is supposed to be fun, but I haven't met anyone that thinks playing through Veteran Ranks is fun.

     

    It isn't difficult, it isn't hard, it isn't even that long, a few hundred hours in an MMO is nothing, but it is boring as hell.

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