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Thinking of Playing EvE? Perhaps reconsider.

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  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320
    Originally posted by Rigur

    You also won't see people shouting the N word or calling people homophobic bullshit on the sidewalk.

    I see this pretty often.  The homophobic part far more than the racism, but neither are in short supply. 

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • RigurRigur Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by Majinash
    Originally posted by Rigur

    You also won't see people shouting the N word or calling people homophobic bullshit on the sidewalk.

    I see this pretty often.  The homophobic part far more than the racism, but neither are in short supply. 

    In real life? Never see any of that here. I live in a small town so that could also be part of it.

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320

    Originally posted by ace5572

    Because a guy said "i dont care because the sociopaths aren't looking at me". And i used a quote speaking to the dangers of that kind of thinking you think Godwin's Law applies here? Give me a break.

    Its a toxic discussion that has been going on for 5 or so pages on the internet, of course Godwin's Law applies here.  You could have adressed his comment plenty of other ways, non nazi-specific.

    Originally posted by Rigur

    People are going to look from the outside in with disgust after hearing about the things that go on in Eve.

    And paint the whole community with the same brush?  I just find it ironic how fast everyone is to say the average EVE player is (insert sterotype here) because of some story from the game.  Hundreds of thousands of people play the game.  Thats a lot of people.  I feel like we shouldn't be so quick to label "The average EVE player", let alone some of the posts which boldly state that only sociopaths would enjoy the game.

     

    Look from the ouside in, or go in and look from there.  But try to keep a level head and not attack entire communities for the actions of a few.

     

     

    EDIT: to the post that appeared directly above me:  I live in a large metropolitan area, work around casinos and hospitals.  I can understand we have very different experiences.  It just seems odd to me on the internet when people say that the stuff on the internet never happens in real life, as I see it all the time.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by jesteralways

    Originally posted by kairel182

    Get over it.  The game works around griefing freedom.  

    Here fixed that for you.

    Originally posted by kairel182

    After re-reading your post, I seriously have to question why you're whining about this.  Why ANYONE would know about this person recovering from cancer is beyond me.  Why would someone put their personal life into the game unless it was someone they trusted?  Obviously this was a douchebag move if they knew beforehand that this was the case, but it doesn't in the least break any sort of rules nor is it against the game code.  This is NOT harassment, this is standard run of the mill trust being entirely misplaced.  Especially in null-sec, where ANYTHING GOES.  You know, anything.  There's nothing that can't be destroyed and anything beyond liquid ISK is a liability.

     

    I agree that it was morally wrong, but it's also the person's fault for divulging their personal information into a game setting.  There are people every where that would do this in any game, given the chance.  If you know Eve then you should know this.  I feel for the guy in real life, but have no sympathy for what he lost in game.  When I played I lost a lot, but never due to a trust misconception.  I only trusted real people, whom know personally.

    Yes of course. next thing you will say :- "a girl who is raped is at fault, of course the rapists did something wrong but the girl should never have left her house and never should have walked among unknown people"

    It has become a common thing these days to blame the victim for their misfortune and antagonize them. People like you are simply disgusting.

    People like you disgust me.   You compare game grief to rape.   Have you ever been raped?   I have some very harsh words I want to say, but unfortunately I'd be banned for saying them so I will keep them to myself.   But don't ever compare game griefing to rape.   You have no clue what you are talking about.

    There was no comparing in my post. i pointed out a disgusting behavior that has become chronic in today's world : antagonizing the victims of crime saying they are the ones who were at fault for being idiots. kairel 182 is one of those people trying to put the blame of crime on the victim and don't come here and tell me it is just a game because it is not just a game that you play with npc, everyone around you are humans just like you and you should and must have the conscience to treat them fairly.

    and no i have never been raped, i am lucky but i took care of a very unlucky 5 years old girl who was raped by 3 men and those barbarians blamed it on the little girl saying the girl touched their penis. and that little girl was one of 5 raped victims i spent time with, one of them tried to slit my throat with a broken glass because i was a man; like the men who raped her . it has become a trend these days to antagonize the victims of crime everywhere; a driver talking in phone and runs over a pedestrian and says the pedestrian is at fault; a jogger gets robbed and  stabbed to death and  everyone says why did the victim go to jog in the 1st place. yeah go ahead and hate me or be disgusted by me as much as you like. you don't know me at all.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by coltrask
    One of you makes a highly offensive analogy of griefing to rape, then another equates it to Nazi Fascism, and another of you threatens to knock the teeth out of eve players irl?  This is the adults talking to the childish EVE players?  Your comments are ridiculous at best, and you prove yourselves to be narrow minded.  You take one person's posts and decide that the entire community of a game is just evil?  I can't believe how far we've sunk as a society.  You just did the exact same crap that OP was talking about, which as others stated, IS ALLOWED IN EVE.  It's sad that GOON etc do things like this, Oh btw GOON is 4chan, and they play EVERY MMO YOU PLAY.  So sorry, but this OP is bitter and angry and just wanted to post to get others of like mind to agree with them.  Which is fine, but your insults show you have no clue about the MMO world.  To think these people only play EVE is laughable at best.  I don't mind all of you, who were never going to play EVE anyhow, want to jump on a back patting band wagon.  But stop insulting people by calling them nazis, rapists, or threatening real life violence.  How have any of those comments made you better than the same people OP posted about?  If you agree with OP, then you wouldn't make such comments. 

    There was no analogy, there was no comparison; i simply pointed out the guys behavior. it has become a common these days to antagonize victims of a crime by putting the blame on victims, it is disgustingly common and the post i commented to showed the same pattern. read properly before posting, there was no comparison between griefing and rape in my post, you are making up your own imaginary conclusion of my post to defend this behavior. 

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    And I'm sorry, but in EVE, it's allowed.  In the real world, all those things you describe, which are not even close to the things that go on in a video game, are horrible things.  Noone asks to be raped, murdered, or whatever you think is appropriate to relate to a video game.  As the father of a daughter who was raped, I find it horrible you would use this term to try to prove your point.  And if you helped a 5yo child in the same situation I find it absolutely insane that you think it is fine.  You are not a 'victim' in a video game where this is a well known part of the game.  And noone is blaming victims here.  Please take your analogy off this forum.
  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    You brought rape into this conversation, bottom line.  It does not belong here.
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,249
    I've tried EvE off and on ever since it launched, and I always end up just bored. Can't wait for Star Citizen though....
  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11

    ^This^

    Best post on this thread.

  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Originally posted by Margrave
    I've tried EvE off and on ever since it launched, and I always end up just bored. Can't wait for Star Citizen though....

    You do realize that these two games are absolutely nothing alike right?

    It's like saying you didn't like this movie but you're excited about the colour green.

    ..Cake..

  • Covet78Covet78 Member UncommonPosts: 149

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with eve-online. The scamming is one part of the game. A small part. It's easy to blow these specific events out of proportion. The vast majority of eve players do not scam or steal. You can be a pirate in eve. There's a system in place around it. With reputations reflecting it. 

     

    I find these posts kind of funny. It's like "hey guys, don't try this game because I don't like it". There is no point to this post. The whole goonswam suicide thing was blown out of proportion. Even the guy who was supposedly wanting to commit suicide said it was rediculous that there was this attention given to something so stupid. The leader of goonswarm didn't get perma banned because there was no victim. 

     

    I personally have never stolen or scammed or cheated in eve-online, nor do I know anyone that has. You see the spam for it in specific systems and it's funny that people fall for it. But that's the point. This game is about freedom, not restrictions. If you are looking for a game where you can do what you want, this is the political and social experiment for you. If you are looking for a heavy hand holding on rails game, there are other great games that go that avenue. 

    I no longer play eve. My pilot is sitting at 45 million skill points. But even though I no longer play, it is by far the best mmo that exists. With massive complex market system, amazing crafting and territory control, no other game comes close as a complex virtual world. And yes, a big BIG part of the game is dealing with other people. Not npc's. That's the point.

  • MalfussMalfuss Member Posts: 3

    DISCLAIMER: I read the first 2 pages of this before it exploded, so apologies if any of this has been covered already.

    I've just signed up because I feel quite strongly about this post. What the OP doesn't tell you is that he has quite a reputation on the Eve forums for not very good posting and he was probably trolled harder because of it. Personally I have nothing against him or his posts but the fact of the matter is he discussed GM correspondence in his post, which he knows will lead immediately to the thread being locked. Because people were ignoring him he then started acting like a petulant child. After his post was locked he then proceeded to rant in new posts which he again knows is not allowed.

    Not only that, although he proved that the alts were set up to follow him, he couldn't provide evidence of being called a pedo or that he was accused of watching child porn. He then went on to look into Icelandic law and discovered that being accused of being a pedo was against the law. He then demanded that CCP act because of this despite being unable to provide evidence. He also fails to mention that CCP looked at both of the harassment tickets and found him to be at fault for swearing.

    Anyway, that isn't the main reason for this post. My reason for posting is because of the negative views people have of Eve. The thing is the 'bad' stories are the ones they get the press, always has been, always will be. The reports also invariably don't follow up on the stories so people are still thinking how bad Eve players are. 

    Take the 'suicide' story, it tells of the CSM chair saying 'If you want to make someone commit suicide go hassle player X'. When I first read the story (admittedly a couple of months after it happened) I was disgusted. I then looked further into to and found that the CSM chair was blindingly drunk and the audience was pretty much the same. It's not an excuse, I know, but does help explain why people weren't immediately up in arms about it. The guy who said it, woke up the next day, realised how bad his comment was, proceeded to step down from the CSM chair, offered an official apology and took his ban. Are you telling me none of you say things whilst drunk that you don't really mean? I know I have and know I probably will in the future.

    The cancer guy was scammed because he fell for it, yet everyone tries to paint the picture that it was because he had cancer that they scammed him.

    How about the good parts of Eve, and the story of Sean Smith or Vile Rat as he was known in game.  For those that don't know the story. He was an American diplomat that had a huge bearing on the game, and was killed in a raid on the US Consulate in Libya. People all over Eve mourned his loss, setup tributes for him, renamed their stations for him and even made Youtube videos honoring him. Still brings tears to my eyes even though I never met him. People so easily forget.

    As for Eve players being sick or mentally unstable, well seriously. Some people do take things too far, in Eve, in real life everywhere. I've played Eve on and off for years, got scammed on the market, laughed at other scammers that tried it, been ganked, been harassed, just like when I used to when I played WoW and CoH. The ganking I used to get when playing WoW was far in excess of anything I've ever experienced in Eve and there it was against level 60's that I couldn't even hope to fight back against when I was a lowly level 10 or so. I remember getting corpse camped for about 2 hours in WoW, never had that in Eve.

  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    More like star wars to star trek no?  I feel that most EVE players wanted something like Star Citizen from the get go though, we shall see if it can draw the hardcore playerbase from EVE.  While I do agree with you though, they are the same genre, Space MMO.
  • Covet78Covet78 Member UncommonPosts: 149
    Originally posted by augustgrace

     

    Listening to a clip of voice talks between corp members, is like seeing the darkness depths of a physco ward, in which the inmates are in charge.

    Because that doesn't happen in every other mmo that exists right? good people and bad people play all kinds of mmo's. lots of racist chat going in on wow and rift and swtor and etc... I've quit many guilds because of peoples racists personalities in vent/mumble chat. 

     

    Guess what. Racist people play all sorts of video games. They do not gyrate towards eve-online. Many kinds of racists people. Some like rpgs, others like space sim's, and some still like my little pony online before it was canceled.

     

  • MaggonMaggon Member UncommonPosts: 357

    I've always wondered if the problem doesn't really mostly rely in that people who wants to scam, or grief are perfectly capable of getting away with it, with no consequences to them whatsoever.

     

    I mean, if you got a guy scamming you, and he succeeds, you can't do jack shit about it - if he sits in a station you can't go there and otherwise just kill him - you can't steal anything from his hangar, you won't be able to blow up his ship since thats obviously docked - fair enough you can sit and wait til he undocks, but then its really all about a waiting game, and he can continue doing whatever he while he sits there, wasting your time, which makes him win again - or if he has a jump clone elsewhere, just activate that, and he would be gone, with you not having any way to know where he actually went off to.

    CCP allows for griefing and what not, but doesn't provide the tools to counter any of it - and it seems to be like this with a lot of their game systems :/

  • RigurRigur Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by Malfuss

    DISCLAIMER: I read the first 2 pages of this before it exploded, so apologies if any of this has been covered already.

    I've just signed up because I feel quite strongly about this post. What the OP doesn't tell you is that he has quite a reputation on the Eve forums for not very good posting and he was probably trolled harder because of it. Personally I have nothing against him or his posts but the fact of the matter is he discussed GM correspondence in his post, which he knows will lead immediately to the thread being locked. Because people were ignoring him he then started acting like a petulant child. After his post was locked he then proceeded to rant in new posts which he again knows is not allowed.

    Not only that, although he proved that the alts were set up to follow him, he couldn't provide evidence of being called a pedo or that he was accused of watching child porn. He then went on to look into Icelandic law and discovered that being accused of being a pedo was against the law. He then demanded that CCP act because of this despite being unable to provide evidence. He also fails to mention that CCP looked at both of the harassment tickets and found him to be at fault for swearing.

    Anyway, that isn't the main reason for this post. My reason for posting is because of the negative views people have of Eve. The thing is the 'bad' stories are the ones they get the press, always has been, always will be. The reports also invariably don't follow up on the stories so people are still thinking how bad Eve players are. 

    Take the 'suicide' story, it tells of the CSM chair saying 'If you want to make someone commit suicide go hassle player X'. When I first read the story (admittedly a couple of months after it happened) I was disgusted. I then looked further into to and found that the CSM chair was blindingly drunk and the audience was pretty much the same. It's not an excuse, I know, but does help explain why people weren't immediately up in arms about it. The guy who said it, woke up the next day, realised how bad his comment was, proceeded to step down from the CSM chair, offered an official apology and took his ban. Are you telling me none of you say things whilst drunk that you don't really mean? I know I have and know I probably will in the future.

    The cancer guy was scammed because he fell for it, yet everyone tries to paint the picture that it was because he had cancer that they scammed him.

    How about the good parts of Eve, and the story of Sean Smith or Vile Rat as he was known in game.  For those that don't know the story. He was an American diplomat that had a huge bearing on the game, and was killed in a raid on the US Consulate in Libya. People all over Eve mourned his loss, setup tributes for him, renamed their stations for him and even made Youtube videos honoring him. Still brings tears to my eyes even though I never met him. People so easily forget.

    As for Eve players being sick or mentally unstable, well seriously. Some people do take things too far, in Eve, in real life everywhere. I've played Eve on and off for years, got scammed on the market, laughed at other scammers that tried it, been ganked, been harassed, just like when I used to when I played WoW and CoH. The ganking I used to get when playing WoW was far in excess of anything I've ever experienced in Eve and there it was against level 60's that I couldn't even hope to fight back against when I was a lowly level 10 or so. I remember getting corpse camped for about 2 hours in WoW, never had that in Eve.

    I appreciate your post. I did not mean to attack the community as a whole. I know the good people out number the bad. I guess it's just like hearing or watching the news it gets you riled up. I apologize.

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Originally posted by coltrask
    More like star wars to star trek no?  I feel that most EVE players wanted something like Star Citizen from the get go though, 

    Erm No.  If eve-players wanted immersion and a space flight sim they would have played one. You don't play EvE for those reasons.

    Star Citizen is going to be a ridiculously simplistic game compared to what EvE Online offers and again both offerings are nothing alike.... I feel like a fool just making the comparison.

    I'll be playing Star Citizen because I loved the Wing Commander series.

     

     

    ..Cake..

  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    On the contrary, yes it may take time.  But the first huge scam that happened in EVE, to the tune of many real life currency worth of isk ,ships, and everything they all owned, was scammed from an alliance.  The perpetrator then sat in lowsec space with his ultimate prize, a mothership.  For month everyone in the sector and around the universe would try to take him out, but he hid behind the fact a mothership in lowsec was insanely OP.  But when he finally went down, it was glorious, and involved multiple small coalitions of Pirate hunters, that is to say, 4 Alliances of friendly helpful people, and their other allies.  Sure the guy could log and never play again.  But those people are what the EVE community calls the people who lost the game.   So while yes, there is the mechanics to keep them safe from harm for a while, eventually it will catch up with them.  
  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    Originally posted by sgel
    Originally posted by coltrask
    More like star wars to star trek no?  I feel that most EVE players wanted something like Star Citizen from the get go though, 

    Erm No.  If eve-players wanted immersion and a space flight sim they would have played one. You don't play EvE for those reasons.

    Star Citizen is going to be a ridiculously simplistic game compared to what EvE Online offers and again both offerings are nothing alike.... I feel like a fool just making the comparison.

    I'll be playing Star Citizen because I loved the Wing Commander series.

     

     

    I feel the same, as I said most people, and i am only counting the people I know from ASCN days BOB and then NC and RZR, wanted an FPS sim.  My problem, and most people I know in Eve's problem has always been, no space FPS has been good enough to take us from EVE, until now hopefully...

              Also though I said, We shall see, if it can pull the hardcore EVE players.  Those being the ones you describe.  But sorry a space mmo is comparable to a space mmo.  Yes EVE is ridiculously complicated even for the long time Veterans.  I stand by my opinion though and respect yours.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,876
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by jesteralways

    Originally posted by kairel182

    Get over it.  The game works around griefing freedom.  

    Here fixed that for you.

    Originally posted by kairel182

    After re-reading your post, I seriously have to question why you're whining about this.  Why ANYONE would know about this person recovering from cancer is beyond me.  Why would someone put their personal life into the game unless it was someone they trusted?  Obviously this was a douchebag move if they knew beforehand that this was the case, but it doesn't in the least break any sort of rules nor is it against the game code.  This is NOT harassment, this is standard run of the mill trust being entirely misplaced.  Especially in null-sec, where ANYTHING GOES.  You know, anything.  There's nothing that can't be destroyed and anything beyond liquid ISK is a liability.

     

    I agree that it was morally wrong, but it's also the person's fault for divulging their personal information into a game setting.  There are people every where that would do this in any game, given the chance.  If you know Eve then you should know this.  I feel for the guy in real life, but have no sympathy for what he lost in game.  When I played I lost a lot, but never due to a trust misconception.  I only trusted real people, whom know personally.

    Yes of course. next thing you will say :- "a girl who is raped is at fault, of course the rapists did something wrong but the girl should never have left her house and never should have walked among unknown people"

    It has become a common thing these days to blame the victim for their misfortune and antagonize them. People like you are simply disgusting.

    People like you disgust me.   You compare game grief to rape.   Have you ever been raped?   I have some very harsh words I want to say, but unfortunately I'd be banned for saying them so I will keep them to myself.   But don't ever compare game griefing to rape.   You have no clue what you are talking about.

    There was no comparing in my post. i pointed out a disgusting behavior that has become chronic in today's world : antagonizing the victims of crime saying they are the ones who were at fault for being idiots. kairel 182 is one of those people trying to put the blame of crime on the victim and don't come here and tell me it is just a game because it is not just a game that you play with npc, everyone around you are humans just like you and you should and must have the conscience to treat them fairly.

    and no i have never been raped, i am lucky but i took care of a very unlucky 5 years old girl who was raped by 3 men and those barbarians blamed it on the little girl saying the girl touched their penis. and that little girl was one of 5 raped victims i spent time with, one of them tried to slit my throat with a broken glass because i was a man; like the men who raped her . it has become a trend these days to antagonize the victims of crime everywhere; a driver talking in phone and runs over a pedestrian and says the pedestrian is at fault; a jogger gets robbed and  stabbed to death and  everyone says why did the victim go to jog in the 1st place. yeah go ahead and hate me or be disgusted by me as much as you like. you don't know me at all.

    Such extreme examples you use in your arguments, really, raping of 5 year old girls, of course those 3 men are worthy of a death sentence, many here would likely be happy to perform it on them.

    But just as in your real life examples, there are just some things you should not do, and if you discard proper caution you are partly responsible for the misfortune that happens to you.

    Driver runs over pedestrian, pedestrian should have made sure the way was clear before crossing, since he's going to lose badly if anyone misjudges.  Jogger gets robbed and stabbed to death, there are many streets not far from my home I would not jog on at night, and even in my neighborhood I jog with a can of pepper spray on my hand and .380 auto in the fanny pack around my waist.  You learn to take responsibility for your own safety in real life, avoid doing activities that might be detrimental to your health, and at the end of the day, bring proper back up when necessary to resolve problems.

    EVE's a lot like this.  The OP claims to have played since 2003, he knows full well what sort of universe EVE is, you learn to take care of your own problems, he's just upset that CCP is refusing to take care of his problems for him.  Posting in GD chat is always a risk, most corps I belong to don't even permit their members to do so, too much risk of drawing wrath down on your head, so I never did. (they won't let you post on an alt as I recall, the point of that being you are supposed to behave or face the consequences for your actions)s

    But the OP did the right thing, he's dissatisfied with the way the game is run, sees imaginary demons behind every action, and he rightly tells people to stay away if they are not willing to participate in this sort of gaming experience, he is correct, this is not the game for you.

    But the fact is, in my 5 years of experience, most EVE players are in fact nothing like this, not even the Goons, I've flown and fought with them as part of alliance coalition, and while I would never join them, they are valid citizens of the EVE universe and I support their being there.

    Oh yeah, Burn Jita, never has been a problem with me, because I know how to adapt to this and fly smart, guess what, don't fly to Jita or any other major market hub during the event, problem solved.

    Yeah, in EVE you don't always get to do what you want to do, when you want to do, and sometimes you are just going to be the bug instead of the windshield.

     

     

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • MakidianMakidian Member UncommonPosts: 208
    Yea not everyone is a dbag in eve, so you can't label everyone that plays it. Eve is a game where anything goes, and everyone knows that. All online games have their dbags, and you learn to deal with it. Eve does have a lot of good people in it. My advice would be to not quit, find some good people and go hunting : ) that's the beauty of eve.
  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia Member UncommonPosts: 203
    Originally posted by Malfuss

    DISCLAIMER: I read the first 2 pages of this before it exploded, so apologies if any of this has been covered already.

    I've just signed up because I feel quite strongly about this post. What the OP doesn't tell you is that he has quite a reputation on the Eve forums for not very good posting and he was probably trolled harder because of it. Personally I have nothing against him or his posts but the fact of the matter is he discussed GM correspondence in his post, which he knows will lead immediately to the thread being locked. Because people were ignoring him he then started acting like a petulant child. After his post was locked he then proceeded to rant in new posts which he again knows is not allowed.

    Not only that, although he proved that the alts were set up to follow him, he couldn't provide evidence of being called a pedo or that he was accused of watching child porn. He then went on to look into Icelandic law and discovered that being accused of being a pedo was against the law. He then demanded that CCP act because of this despite being unable to provide evidence. He also fails to mention that CCP looked at both of the harassment tickets and found him to be at fault for swearing.

    Anyway, that isn't the main reason for this post. My reason for posting is because of the negative views people have of Eve. The thing is the 'bad' stories are the ones they get the press, always has been, always will be. The reports also invariably don't follow up on the stories so people are still thinking how bad Eve players are. 

    Take the 'suicide' story, it tells of the CSM chair saying 'If you want to make someone commit suicide go hassle player X'. When I first read the story (admittedly a couple of months after it happened) I was disgusted. I then looked further into to and found that the CSM chair was blindingly drunk and the audience was pretty much the same. It's not an excuse, I know, but does help explain why people weren't immediately up in arms about it. The guy who said it, woke up the next day, realised how bad his comment was, proceeded to step down from the CSM chair, offered an official apology and took his ban. Are you telling me none of you say things whilst drunk that you don't really mean? I know I have and know I probably will in the future.

    The cancer guy was scammed because he fell for it, yet everyone tries to paint the picture that it was because he had cancer that they scammed him.

    How about the good parts of Eve, and the story of Sean Smith or Vile Rat as he was known in game.  For those that don't know the story. He was an American diplomat that had a huge bearing on the game, and was killed in a raid on the US Consulate in Libya. People all over Eve mourned his loss, setup tributes for him, renamed their stations for him and even made Youtube videos honoring him. Still brings tears to my eyes even though I never met him. People so easily forget.

    As for Eve players being sick or mentally unstable, well seriously. Some people do take things too far, in Eve, in real life everywhere. I've played Eve on and off for years, got scammed on the market, laughed at other scammers that tried it, been ganked, been harassed, just like when I used to when I played WoW and CoH. The ganking I used to get when playing WoW was far in excess of anything I've ever experienced in Eve and there it was against level 60's that I couldn't even hope to fight back against when I was a lowly level 10 or so. I remember getting corpse camped for about 2 hours in WoW, never had that in Eve.

    Actually this is incorrect - I provided proof that a) the person was following me for months b) https://i.imgur.com/ZF5NuiJ.png  You can see in this image the person states they are specifically targetting me for harassment.  c) https://i.imgur.com/Ae8WArd.png  You can see in this image the person admitting what I proposed they said to me was true.

    And really it doesn't matter.  No one deserves to have a player or players following them for months non-stop for no other reason than to harass them.  End of story. its wrong.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    image
  • coltraskcoltrask Member Posts: 11
    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
    Originally posted by Malfuss

    DISCLAIMER: I read the first 2 pages of this before it exploded, so apologies if any of this has been covered already.

    I've just signed up because I feel quite strongly about this post. What the OP doesn't tell you is that he has quite a reputation on the Eve forums for not very good posting and he was probably trolled harder because of it. Personally I have nothing against him or his posts but the fact of the matter is he discussed GM correspondence in his post, which he knows will lead immediately to the thread being locked. Because people were ignoring him he then started acting like a petulant child. After his post was locked he then proceeded to rant in new posts which he again knows is not allowed.

    Not only that, although he proved that the alts were set up to follow him, he couldn't provide evidence of being called a pedo or that he was accused of watching child porn. He then went on to look into Icelandic law and discovered that being accused of being a pedo was against the law. He then demanded that CCP act because of this despite being unable to provide evidence. He also fails to mention that CCP looked at both of the harassment tickets and found him to be at fault for swearing.

    Anyway, that isn't the main reason for this post. My reason for posting is because of the negative views people have of Eve. The thing is the 'bad' stories are the ones they get the press, always has been, always will be. The reports also invariably don't follow up on the stories so people are still thinking how bad Eve players are. 

    Take the 'suicide' story, it tells of the CSM chair saying 'If you want to make someone commit suicide go hassle player X'. When I first read the story (admittedly a couple of months after it happened) I was disgusted. I then looked further into to and found that the CSM chair was blindingly drunk and the audience was pretty much the same. It's not an excuse, I know, but does help explain why people weren't immediately up in arms about it. The guy who said it, woke up the next day, realised how bad his comment was, proceeded to step down from the CSM chair, offered an official apology and took his ban. Are you telling me none of you say things whilst drunk that you don't really mean? I know I have and know I probably will in the future.

    The cancer guy was scammed because he fell for it, yet everyone tries to paint the picture that it was because he had cancer that they scammed him.

    How about the good parts of Eve, and the story of Sean Smith or Vile Rat as he was known in game.  For those that don't know the story. He was an American diplomat that had a huge bearing on the game, and was killed in a raid on the US Consulate in Libya. People all over Eve mourned his loss, setup tributes for him, renamed their stations for him and even made Youtube videos honoring him. Still brings tears to my eyes even though I never met him. People so easily forget.

    As for Eve players being sick or mentally unstable, well seriously. Some people do take things too far, in Eve, in real life everywhere. I've played Eve on and off for years, got scammed on the market, laughed at other scammers that tried it, been ganked, been harassed, just like when I used to when I played WoW and CoH. The ganking I used to get when playing WoW was far in excess of anything I've ever experienced in Eve and there it was against level 60's that I couldn't even hope to fight back against when I was a lowly level 10 or so. I remember getting corpse camped for about 2 hours in WoW, never had that in Eve.

    Actually this is incorrect - I provided proof that a) the person was following me for months b) https://i.imgur.com/ZF5NuiJ.png  You can see in this image the person states they are specifically targetting me for harassment.  c) https://i.imgur.com/Ae8WArd.png  You can see in this image the person admitting what I proposed they said to me was true.

    And really it doesn't matter.  No one deserves to have a player or players following them for months non-stop for no other reason than to harass them.  End of story. its wrong.

    What you posted is eve 101, as a 2003 player, you should know, local chat has no bearing on harrassment, as there are systems in place to block, and ignore people.  You engage them in local chat furthermore, and that is another thing you should not have done.  Your proof of him calling you a pedo is you typing a quote and him saying "and".  While I don't doubt he called you this, your pic is not proof.  

    As others stated, this is not something that is against the rules in EVE until it goes way out of hand.   Being hunted for 3 months or folllowed around by people you can ignore or block, is not harrassment in EVE.  And as for the guy who said that should be bannable in all mmo's?  No, please don't enforce rules you like in games you play, on a community who likes their game the way it is.  We have so much choice in gaming nowadays, is this kind of argument even worth it?

  • RigurRigur Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Rigur
    Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    I've been scammed, ganked, griefed, targeted by professional corp killers, got strung out to dry for CEO incompetence, used as cannon fodder, had assets stolen from me by someone who pretended to be a friend, etc all in EVE... and guess what softies? I don't compare that to rape and never will because the act of forcefully subjecting someone in real life for your own carnal gratification can never, ever, ever, equate to a few curse words as you lose some pixels for whatever reasons. In EVE Online the very first advice you are given: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose and the second arguably is Do not believe things that are too good to be true.

     

    The OP violated EULA rules by discussing GM actions on the forum and this is a pretty universal rule, more so than his "If it harms the game it is against the EULA!!" comment, and proceeded to fail repeatedly at thinking his actions out beyond the first step in a sandbox game which IMHO is downright asking for it ( you seriously wanted to setup a NRDS zone in Stain? even Black Frog wouldn't be suicidal enough to support shipping runs that deep in space on a constant basis and you wanted to do it anyway? With what alliance backing you? None? in a zone that's been a hotbed for conflict between the Russians and the western player alliances since before I joined EVE which was in 2005? Wow... just...wow).

     

    I do not blame victims but people who basically slather tartar sauce on themselves and jump into a tiger pit aren't victims and the OP was asking for it... considering there's a block function for people in-game (thus verbal abuse can be dealt with within 1-2 minutes) and considering that if he had any real support cloaking gank can be mitigated quite easily (nothing ruins a pilgrims day than a cloaky legion or loki uncloaking behind it and blowing it apart).. I cannot condone this thread as anything other than the wishful fantasies of someone who wants the freedom to do whatever he likes but does not want everyone else to have the same freedom which IMHO is far too common these days (hint: one of the reason SWG NGE hit was people disliking other's freedoms) .

     

    As for the guy who had cancer who got ganked...despicable as that may seem he forgot the first rule of EVE: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. because that gank may have happened even without his friend's help... shit happens all the time in EVE. That said I personally take a hard line against people who, for whatever reason, get or expect preferential treatment in EVE because I personally have health issue, nowhere near as severe as cancer for example but sufficient that a strong enough blow, which would be non-fatal otherwise, could outright kill me, and find the notion of people giving me any kind of special treatment disgusting (I've left corps in the past for this, I prefer getting ganked to the ganker going "Oh... you have issues... ok I will not shoot you but shoot your friends!" ).

     

    EVE is a sandbox, it is not inherently evil or inherently good that is dictated by the players within and say what you will about that freedom to choose but do not take away from it with "If it damages the game you get banned" because that rule can and has been used to cry wolf in many games before and developers less sure of their vision have fallen for it but CCP while it has that rule applies it only in extreme cases to preserve player freedoms. You want to blame someone for the game being so hostile? Blame the players because we as a whole have a few psychopaths and sociopaths amongst our ranks but just like in real life: If he/she ain't looking at me I do not care.

    One of the very few reasonable responses to this ridiculous thread. 

    Because he agrees with you.

     

    In Everquest ( bringing it up cause mentioned it a few posts back ) ninja-looting,training,harassment ect was bannable. They put in their "play-nice" policy for a reason.

    Harassment in any MMO should be bannable. If you all want to keep comparing Eve to real life fine, but in real life there is consequences for your actions. Continually harassing someone in real life is called stalking.

    I honestly don't care what you degenerates do to each other. It is a pvp game after all and the company that owns it makes it no secret they get off on the sadomasochism. When someone makes a post like this tho I will show empathy.

    Well first off Everquest (I assume you mean the first) was the prototype for themeparks which WoW iterated upon with great success so comparing a themepark with a sandbox including the rules by which these are governed is not smart at all considering what is good for one is bad for another especially considering the types of people the draw and the sort of community you want to build.

    Harassment which goes against the rules of the game (such as teamkilling in say World of Tanks, exploiting glitches to grief someone in something like EVE,etc) but if it is a simple brawl between e-peen users then the developer rarely gets involved and when they do it usually ends badly for them not the parties involved.

    Us degenerates have a growing thriving game which has survived with the P2P model in an age in which every other MMO has gone F2P, is in deep shit or is WoW in the western market. Kind of funny how that works out, right? Now kindly go back to whatever soon to go F2P game you are playing and leave us degenerates with may quite possibly be the last bastion of P2P in the end.

     

    Addendum: To those who know my posting history: I advocate F2P on an almost universal scale except for games like EVE-Online, long standing sandboxes, where a F2P/B2P conversion may destroy the player made systems/groups utterly and wreck the experience completely.

     

    Edit:

    Dear Christ OP... you have no case against the guy... if you both were in Iceland maybe, if you both were from the same country and it had the same law maybe but you would get laughed out of the police station when you go to report "A mean man called me a pedo online in a game I play!" because there's a big difference between cyberbulling (actual harassment) and playing the metagame in EVE.

    Well first off the Everquest reference was too the guy that replied to you.

    I will got back to my soon to go F2P mmo thank you! When can I tell blizzard not to charge me 15$ anymore?

    edit. If someone is continually making alts to bypass the ignore system to harass you then yes this should be bannable in all MMOs

    The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.

This discussion has been closed.