Originally posted by asmkm22 I'm not really surprised considering how much extra work seems to be going into the next expansion, due later this year. They are adding a lot of pretty neat features, not to mention a complete revamp of the character models.
Could you compare this with Rift or EQ2 or many other MMORPG's that have a team of like 5-20 that bring in about 100+ Times Less income?
A lot of people don't get if Blizzard had like 500k Subs and if they did not go free 2 play. They be doing about the same content wise now maybe a bit less per expansion...
But with 7 Million They are going be doing about the same. That does not add up fairly at all.
So you want them to hire new dev's for the sake of one last content patch, then lay them off once the expansion gets released and the main dev team starts back on building content patches? Not only would that suck for the people getting laid off after 6 months, but the quality would likely suffer if the content patch was built by a newly-hired dev team specifically to fill a temporary void.
Go run a business and see how unrealistic it is to just assume you can throw money at a problem and have it resolved. Yes, Blizzard makes a lot off of subs. Yes, the vast majority of that goes to the company and investors. That's just business.
Yes... because that time that Blizz did put in "interim" content it went so so well... .. .
Kael´thas call you out on that little setback.
Any way it is way way to late to start developing any content now... Unless it will be re-hashed re-used stuff it will be ready at best a month or so before WoD releases... What good would that do.
Originally posted by asmkm22 I'm not really surprised considering how much extra work seems to be going into the next expansion, due later this year. They are adding a lot of pretty neat features, not to mention a complete revamp of the character models.
Could you compare this with Rift or EQ2 or many other MMORPG's that have a team of like 5-20 that bring in about 100+ Times Less income?
A lot of people don't get if Blizzard had like 500k Subs and if they did not go free 2 play. They be doing about the same content wise now maybe a bit less per expansion...
But with 7 Million They are going be doing about the same. That does not add up fairly at all.
So you want them to hire new dev's for the sake of one last content patch, then lay them off once the expansion gets released and the main dev team starts back on building content patches? Not only would that suck for the people getting laid off after 6 months, but the quality would likely suffer if the content patch was built by a newly-hired dev team specifically to fill a temporary void.
Go run a business and see how unrealistic it is to just assume you can throw money at a problem and have it resolved. Yes, Blizzard makes a lot off of subs. Yes, the vast majority of that goes to the company and investors. That's just business.
They should have a RUN and development team. Pulling all (RUN) development for over half the life span of an expansion, so they can focus 100% on the next and then charge in addition to a year's+ subscription (of no new content) is simply unacceptable.
I honestly don't think their player base knows any better. Hell, many aren't even aware there are other MMO's with much better content delivery cycles.
I just started playing WoW for the first time about 5 months ago and whenever i bring up their terrible content cycle, i'm sure i get weird looks.
You'd think Blizzard would have learned after losing almost half of their subs. Where the hell is all that money going?
I try not to delve too deeply into their business model, I simply do not know what their overheads for the game is. However I understand as a customer that my sub is to pay for the continued development of the game. This includes the servers. So, if no content is being released and then an xpac comes out that I have to buy, then have I not just paid them to make something to sell back to me?
No content in a year and I have to ask (to which I would not get an answer from them) as to what peoples money is being spent on. Taking the money just to maintain the servers whilst you use that money to build other products to sell is unethical. The agreement was that the money being paid would support the game and all future content, so where is the content I paid for already? WoD isn't it as you have to pay for it.
No one asks them these questions and they always give a bullshit answer. I understand that they are a business with investors and stock holders that want to get a return. The higher the return the more people investing in the company it attracts. But, they can easily make a nice turn over and live up to the reputation they once had. Now, the brand is so big that they feel that the consumer can be treated poorly and they scoff and get away with it.
Don't get me wrong, WoW for the most part is a very enjoyable game, but value for money? Not at all.
Let me ask you one thing. Would you invest money to produce content if people kept giving you money, even when you did absolutely nothing?
I would have done the same. Why waste money when people are going to pay you anyway for nothing at all!
I absolutely would!
There use to be a little something called Integrity and it's something that the corporate world, has by and large done away with. Why? because it cost's too much... cuts into the profit margin...
Imagine if you could produce a game, with the loot that WoW generates.
Just cancel your sub and play on a big name private server that only has TBC or WOTLK. Couple of those servers out there right now and they will add challenge back into your wow gaming time . If you google private tbc or private wotlk you will see theres a lot of them out there. My 2 cents
Originally posted by asmkm22 I'm not really surprised considering how much extra work seems to be going into the next expansion, due later this year. They are adding a lot of pretty neat features, not to mention a complete revamp of the character models.
Could you compare this with Rift or EQ2 or many other MMORPG's that have a team of like 5-20 that bring in about 100+ Times Less income?
A lot of people don't get if Blizzard had like 500k Subs and if they did not go free 2 play. They be doing about the same content wise now maybe a bit less per expansion...
But with 7 Million They are going be doing about the same. That does not add up fairly at all.
So you want them to hire new dev's for the sake of one last content patch, then lay them off once the expansion gets released and the main dev team starts back on building content patches? Not only would that suck for the people getting laid off after 6 months, but the quality would likely suffer if the content patch was built by a newly-hired dev team specifically to fill a temporary void.
Go run a business and see how unrealistic it is to just assume you can throw money at a problem and have it resolved. Yes, Blizzard makes a lot off of subs. Yes, the vast majority of that goes to the company and investors. That's just business.
They should have a RUN and development team. Pulling all (RUN) development for over half the life span of an expansion, so they can focus 100% on the next and then charge in addition to a year's+ subscription (of no new content) is simply unacceptable.
But why? This one expansion is kind of unique in that it's taking more dev resources than normal, due to all the changes. So again, why would they change things up for just this one instance?
The really crazy thing is that just announcing WoD a few months ago is enough to get people to start playing again despite knowing it won't be out for months.
Blizzard does not let customers call the shots as much as other game devs - they are game developing artists, they can polish a game like no other, they know that. They also keep their game fresh that way. If the players called the shots, every ones personal favorite classes would get buffed to the max, the fights would be tailored for their class to maximize their impact. It just can't happen that way.
Blizzard has a take or it leave it attitude, they have maintained that and made adjustments as needed, they don't make them at the speed of light, but that's how they produce quality.
Quality over Quantity, I'll take it any day.
WoW has run it's course for me, but looking back, they have always gave their best shot at Quality over Quantity.
WOTLK - absolutely wonderful
Vanilla - great
TBC - Wonderful
Cata - flop - but players just didn't like it but that's the risk devs need to take, l felt at launch it was quality when everything was still hard
MOP - overall fun again High Quality, but going perhaps to much a direction change for the player base, again Major Risk taking - I give them kudos for that, but they are one of the few devs in position to do such things to an existing successful game.
Originally posted by asmkm22 I'm not really surprised considering how much extra work seems to be going into the next expansion, due later this year. They are adding a lot of pretty neat features, not to mention a complete revamp of the character models.
Could you compare this with Rift or EQ2 or many other MMORPG's that have a team of like 5-20 that bring in about 100+ Times Less income?
A lot of people don't get if Blizzard had like 500k Subs and if they did not go free 2 play. They be doing about the same content wise now maybe a bit less per expansion...
But with 7 Million They are going be doing about the same. That does not add up fairly at all.
So you want them to hire new dev's for the sake of one last content patch, then lay them off once the expansion gets released and the main dev team starts back on building content patches? Not only would that suck for the people getting laid off after 6 months, but the quality would likely suffer if the content patch was built by a newly-hired dev team specifically to fill a temporary void.
Go run a business and see how unrealistic it is to just assume you can throw money at a problem and have it resolved. Yes, Blizzard makes a lot off of subs. Yes, the vast majority of that goes to the company and investors. That's just business.
They should have a RUN and development team. Pulling all (RUN) development for over half the life span of an expansion, so they can focus 100% on the next and then charge in addition to a year's+ subscription (of no new content) is simply unacceptable.
But why? This one expansion is kind of unique in that it's taking more dev resources than normal, due to all the changes. So again, why would they change things up for just this one instance?
It's not unique and it's not this one instance. They pull this stunt with every expansion.
For Cata they revamped the entire vanilla content, at the expense of fresh content for a year. DS lasted a year, before MoP finally arrived. WoD they are revamping vanilla character models while stripping out existing game mechanics, and adding little else of any substance.
As to why? Because people are subscribing to a game for over a year and not getting any new content. Add that to the cost of the expansion and it's simply a rip off. Especially when in reality all they are getting is some new raid content, as the levelling experience will be quickly irrelevant.
Originally posted by asmkm22 I'm not really surprised considering how much extra work seems to be going into the next expansion, due later this year. They are adding a lot of pretty neat features, not to mention a complete revamp of the character models.
Could you compare this with Rift or EQ2 or many other MMORPG's that have a team of like 5-20 that bring in about 100+ Times Less income?
A lot of people don't get if Blizzard had like 500k Subs and if they did not go free 2 play. They be doing about the same content wise now maybe a bit less per expansion...
But with 7 Million They are going be doing about the same. That does not add up fairly at all.
So you want them to hire new dev's for the sake of one last content patch, then lay them off once the expansion gets released and the main dev team starts back on building content patches? Not only would that suck for the people getting laid off after 6 months, but the quality would likely suffer if the content patch was built by a newly-hired dev team specifically to fill a temporary void.
Go run a business and see how unrealistic it is to just assume you can throw money at a problem and have it resolved. Yes, Blizzard makes a lot off of subs. Yes, the vast majority of that goes to the company and investors. That's just business.
They should have a RUN and development team. Pulling all (RUN) development for over half the life span of an expansion, so they can focus 100% on the next and then charge in addition to a year's+ subscription (of no new content) is simply unacceptable.
But why? This one expansion is kind of unique in that it's taking more dev resources than normal, due to all the changes. So again, why would they change things up for just this one instance?
It's not unique and it's not this one instance. They pull this stunt with every expansion.
For Cata they revamped the entire vanilla content, at the expense of fresh content for a year. DS lasted a year, before MoP finally arrived. WoD they are revamping vanilla character models while stripping out existing game mechanics, and adding little else of any substance.
As to why? Because people are subscribing to a game for over a year and not getting any new content. Add that to the cost of the expansion and it's simply a rip off. Especially when in reality all they are getting is some new raid content, as the levelling experience will be quickly irrelevant.
I think you just broke the internet with that statement.
As to why? Because people are subscribing to a game for over a year and not getting any new content. Add that to the cost of the expansion and it's simply a rip off. Especially when in reality all they are getting is some new raid content, as the levelling experience will be quickly irrelevant.
In all of these posts you are making the assumption that everyone burns through the content at the same accelerated rate but in reality this is no-where near true. What percentage of people do you believe has seen all of the raid content right through until the end compared to what percentage of people are still gearing to get through that content? Check how busy the Timeless isle is even now to get an idea.
As has been said, Blizzard have never been a company to drop a content update just for the sake of it, they have their plans and they stick to them and it has done them no harm to date. I have been in other MMO's that have rushed content because they announce launch dates before having the content ready and it destroys player confidence in the product. For some, no matter how fast they released their content it would never be quick enough.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
They've lost too much of their playerbase as is, I can't fathom how this is a good business decision unless they're actively trying to drive people away.
What a hilarious debate. So from what I can gather there are a few different ways to look at this.
1.) Blizzard is a greedy corporation and is giving the barebones on content between xpacs because they subscibe to the dark side.
2.)Physically not enough expierienced devs to pump out "Blizzard quality" content between xpacs.
3.)Consumers fault for paying subs while not recieving content updates.
I feel like thats all of em, my personal take is a combo of 2 and 3. I believe that they cannot just conjure good devs from thin air. However if this issue was causing them to lose money quickly....they would find some way around it. Such as having the expierienced devs train the newbs and such. There are no quick fixes here, but the problem can be solved.
Add to this people's willingness to pay that sub during the content lulls. Business exists to make money, if you think otherwise you are naive. Yes it seems smaller businesses have "integrity" but if you think that is for the sake of being a good person you are mistaken. Smaller business rely on customer loyalty to MAKE MONEY. If they do blizzard like things you will go somewhere else and they don't have a pool of millions of people to rely on. So your "integrity" is actually a marketing stratregy.
As has already been correctly pointed out, if people un-sub en masse when content lulls arrive, things will change. I wouldn't expect that though, I know alot of people who are content with endleslly leveling alts and playing arenas/bgs over and over. And thats fine with me honestly, Im one of the people the come back to WOW when they drop an expansion. Play through the content and then unsub.
I wonder if any here complaining, were cheering when Blizzcon released information about WoD.
"The longer you have to wait for something, the more you will appreciate it when it finally arrives. The harder you have to fight for something, the more priceless it will become once you achieve it. And the more pain you have to endure on your journey, the sweeter the arrival at your destination. ALL GOOD THINGS ARE WORTH WAITING FOR!"
With the size of this next expansion it should be rather clear that they are throwing alot of resources into it, so It seems only natural to me to expect a lull in major patches whilst they focus on this. Don't lose sight of what's around the corner, it should be worth the wait.
The main choices you face are to:
Either unsub and wait for exp
Quit Wow out of spite
continue playing or..
If you're like me who hasn't played since before MoP resub when ready to do so.
It is what it is, just enjoy whatever path you choose to take.
What a hilarious debate. So from what I can gather there are a few different ways to look at this.
1.) Blizzard is a greedy corporation and is giving the barebones on content between xpacs because they subscibe to the dark side.
2.)Physically not enough expierienced devs to pump out "Blizzard quality" content between xpacs.
3.)Consumers fault for paying subs while not recieving content updates.
I feel like thats all of em, my personal take is a combo of 2 and 3. I believe that they cannot just conjure good devs from thin air. However if this issue was causing them to lose money quickly....they would find some way around it. Such as having the expierienced devs train the newbs and such. There are no quick fixes here, but the problem can be solved.
Add to this people's willingness to pay that sub during the content lulls. Business exists to make money, if you think otherwise you are naive. Yes it seems smaller businesses have "integrity" but if you think that is for the sake of being a good person you are mistaken. Smaller business rely on customer loyalty to MAKE MONEY. If they do blizzard like things you will go somewhere else and they don't have a pool of millions of people to rely on. So your "integrity" is actually a marketing stratregy.
As has already been correctly pointed out, if people un-sub en masse when content lulls arrive, things will change. I wouldn't expect that though, I know alot of people who are content with endleslly leveling alts and playing arenas/bgs over and over. And thats fine with me honestly, Im one of the people the come back to WOW when they drop an expansion. Play through the content and then unsub.
Integrity has nothing to do with MAKING MONEY. You either have it or you don't, it's only something you can only give yourself and only something you can lose yourself.
The way a Company does business is a reflection of the people who run it.
Yeah, WoW is still great to play. It is just a shame that they ruined the game in various ways. Dumbing it down, messing up mechanics, etc. But community is also not that great. I'd rather a community like Eve, where at least most people you talk too are mature.
Comments
Is Ridicules a cross between Riddick and Hercules? I mean, that would be ridiculous.
When was first time that Blizzard said they plan to release xpacks closer to each other? Pre Cata?
It never happened and never will..
So you want them to hire new dev's for the sake of one last content patch, then lay them off once the expansion gets released and the main dev team starts back on building content patches? Not only would that suck for the people getting laid off after 6 months, but the quality would likely suffer if the content patch was built by a newly-hired dev team specifically to fill a temporary void.
Go run a business and see how unrealistic it is to just assume you can throw money at a problem and have it resolved. Yes, Blizzard makes a lot off of subs. Yes, the vast majority of that goes to the company and investors. That's just business.
You make me like charity
Yes... because that time that Blizz did put in "interim" content it went so so well... .. .
Kael´thas call you out on that little setback.
Any way it is way way to late to start developing any content now... Unless it will be re-hashed re-used stuff it will be ready at best a month or so before WoD releases... What good would that do.
This have been a good conversation
They should have a RUN and development team. Pulling all (RUN) development for over half the life span of an expansion, so they can focus 100% on the next and then charge in addition to a year's+ subscription (of no new content) is simply unacceptable.
I honestly don't think their player base knows any better. Hell, many aren't even aware there are other MMO's with much better content delivery cycles.
I just started playing WoW for the first time about 5 months ago and whenever i bring up their terrible content cycle, i'm sure i get weird looks.
You'd think Blizzard would have learned after losing almost half of their subs. Where the hell is all that money going?
I try not to delve too deeply into their business model, I simply do not know what their overheads for the game is. However I understand as a customer that my sub is to pay for the continued development of the game. This includes the servers. So, if no content is being released and then an xpac comes out that I have to buy, then have I not just paid them to make something to sell back to me?
No content in a year and I have to ask (to which I would not get an answer from them) as to what peoples money is being spent on. Taking the money just to maintain the servers whilst you use that money to build other products to sell is unethical. The agreement was that the money being paid would support the game and all future content, so where is the content I paid for already? WoD isn't it as you have to pay for it.
No one asks them these questions and they always give a bullshit answer. I understand that they are a business with investors and stock holders that want to get a return. The higher the return the more people investing in the company it attracts. But, they can easily make a nice turn over and live up to the reputation they once had. Now, the brand is so big that they feel that the consumer can be treated poorly and they scoff and get away with it.
Don't get me wrong, WoW for the most part is a very enjoyable game, but value for money? Not at all.
Let me ask you one thing. Would you invest money to produce content if people kept giving you money, even when you did absolutely nothing?
I would have done the same. Why waste money when people are going to pay you anyway for nothing at all!
I absolutely would!
There use to be a little something called Integrity and it's something that the corporate world, has by and large done away with. Why? because it cost's too much... cuts into the profit margin...
Imagine if you could produce a game, with the loot that WoW generates.
What would it be like?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
This started when most of WOTLK's content was cut.
Thank Activision and Kotick.
But why? This one expansion is kind of unique in that it's taking more dev resources than normal, due to all the changes. So again, why would they change things up for just this one instance?
You make me like charity
The really crazy thing is that just announcing WoD a few months ago is enough to get people to start playing again despite knowing it won't be out for months.
Blizzard does not let customers call the shots as much as other game devs - they are game developing artists, they can polish a game like no other, they know that. They also keep their game fresh that way. If the players called the shots, every ones personal favorite classes would get buffed to the max, the fights would be tailored for their class to maximize their impact. It just can't happen that way.
Blizzard has a take or it leave it attitude, they have maintained that and made adjustments as needed, they don't make them at the speed of light, but that's how they produce quality.
Quality over Quantity, I'll take it any day.
WoW has run it's course for me, but looking back, they have always gave their best shot at Quality over Quantity.
WOTLK - absolutely wonderful
Vanilla - great
TBC - Wonderful
Cata - flop - but players just didn't like it but that's the risk devs need to take, l felt at launch it was quality when everything was still hard
MOP - overall fun again High Quality, but going perhaps to much a direction change for the player base, again Major Risk taking - I give them kudos for that, but they are one of the few devs in position to do such things to an existing successful game.
The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.
It's not unique and it's not this one instance. They pull this stunt with every expansion.
For Cata they revamped the entire vanilla content, at the expense of fresh content for a year. DS lasted a year, before MoP finally arrived. WoD they are revamping vanilla character models while stripping out existing game mechanics, and adding little else of any substance.
As to why? Because people are subscribing to a game for over a year and not getting any new content. Add that to the cost of the expansion and it's simply a rip off. Especially when in reality all they are getting is some new raid content, as the levelling experience will be quickly irrelevant.
I think you just broke the internet with that statement.
In all of these posts you are making the assumption that everyone burns through the content at the same accelerated rate but in reality this is no-where near true. What percentage of people do you believe has seen all of the raid content right through until the end compared to what percentage of people are still gearing to get through that content? Check how busy the Timeless isle is even now to get an idea.
As has been said, Blizzard have never been a company to drop a content update just for the sake of it, they have their plans and they stick to them and it has done them no harm to date. I have been in other MMO's that have rushed content because they announce launch dates before having the content ready and it destroys player confidence in the product. For some, no matter how fast they released their content it would never be quick enough.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
They've lost too much of their playerbase as is, I can't fathom how this is a good business decision unless they're actively trying to drive people away.
What a hilarious debate. So from what I can gather there are a few different ways to look at this.
1.) Blizzard is a greedy corporation and is giving the barebones on content between xpacs because they subscibe to the dark side.
2.)Physically not enough expierienced devs to pump out "Blizzard quality" content between xpacs.
3.)Consumers fault for paying subs while not recieving content updates.
I feel like thats all of em, my personal take is a combo of 2 and 3. I believe that they cannot just conjure good devs from thin air. However if this issue was causing them to lose money quickly....they would find some way around it. Such as having the expierienced devs train the newbs and such. There are no quick fixes here, but the problem can be solved.
Add to this people's willingness to pay that sub during the content lulls. Business exists to make money, if you think otherwise you are naive. Yes it seems smaller businesses have "integrity" but if you think that is for the sake of being a good person you are mistaken. Smaller business rely on customer loyalty to MAKE MONEY. If they do blizzard like things you will go somewhere else and they don't have a pool of millions of people to rely on. So your "integrity" is actually a marketing stratregy.
As has already been correctly pointed out, if people un-sub en masse when content lulls arrive, things will change. I wouldn't expect that though, I know alot of people who are content with endleslly leveling alts and playing arenas/bgs over and over. And thats fine with me honestly, Im one of the people the come back to WOW when they drop an expansion. Play through the content and then unsub.
I wonder if any here complaining, were cheering when Blizzcon released information about WoD.
"The longer you have to wait for something, the more you will appreciate it when it finally arrives. The harder you have to fight for something, the more priceless it will become once you achieve it. And the more pain you have to endure on your journey, the sweeter the arrival at your destination. ALL GOOD THINGS ARE WORTH WAITING FOR!"
With the size of this next expansion it should be rather clear that they are throwing alot of resources into it, so It seems only natural to me to expect a lull in major patches whilst they focus on this. Don't lose sight of what's around the corner, it should be worth the wait.
The main choices you face are to:
Either unsub and wait for exp
Quit Wow out of spite
continue playing or..
If you're like me who hasn't played since before MoP resub when ready to do so.
It is what it is, just enjoy whatever path you choose to take.
Integrity has nothing to do with MAKING MONEY. You either have it or you don't, it's only something you can only give yourself and only something you can lose yourself.
The way a Company does business is a reflection of the people who run it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Yeah, WoW is still great to play. It is just a shame that they ruined the game in various ways. Dumbing it down, messing up mechanics, etc. But community is also not that great. I'd rather a community like Eve, where at least most people you talk too are mature.