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The issue with MMORPG gamers and gamers in general...

hidrohidro Member UncommonPosts: 52
Hi everyone.

I know this will fall on deaf ears but I have to make my thoughts public. My intention is not to start a flame war but to discuss a phenomenon that has been spreading because of this new age of technology.

I will call it the "critic syndrome". I myself have been affected by this: when I go see a movie at the theater I rarely laugh or enjoy the movie... I just sit there and judge the movie, thinking is the movie good or bad and why.

This habit seems to have been spreading like wildfire amongst gamers. It is no longer about sitting down and enjoying the game that the devs have prepared for us, but to rather find every thing that you don't like in the game and to let them know that you don't like it. (with the expectation that they will change what you don't like.)

It seems everyone has their favorite feature, addon, playstyle, etc that makes you comfortable when playing said game. People don't seem to want to step out of their comfort zone.

The point I'm trying to get across is "Why would the devs try something new with such a brutal community?"
I remember when we had to actually figure out how to play the latest game release - read the manual. You didn't like certain things? You found a way to enjoy it regardless.

The reason I am posting this is because I went through this with ESO. I played the beta and came to the conclusion that the game "sucked" because it wasn't Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim online. I came to this realisation and decided to try ESO again on the last beta and to enjoy the game as a source of entertainment and to not critisize anything. It proved to be quite effective as I have now purchased ESO and will be replaying a lot of games with this new mindset.

Food for thought,

Cheers.

Edit: I did space my paragraphs.. I will re-edit once I am off my phone.

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Comments

  • CreatorzimCreatorzim Member UncommonPosts: 274

    If a game is good it will get good reviews and get more purchases resulting in more money. Period. If the game is bad the exact opposite. 

    Before it was hard getting the word out that a game was bad. A game could get lots of sales but be an utter disaster and no one would hear about it and continue to buy it up. 

    Those days are gone. Now if a game sucks everyone hears about it and avoids it.

    Its on the Devs to make a good game, that is on them, it is not our responsibility to test every bit of code for them like they have been doing for awhile now. Pushing out crap games that are broken, which they know are broken and fix afterwards. Release a finished product, reviews will be good, and game sales will skyrocket. 

    Devs have gotten money hungry is the problem, they want to appease the stock holders so they release games early. 

    image

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495

    I alway's play what is given and not what I hoped for or might be promised.

    This additude has made me enjoy plenty of games and of course also some mistakes.

     

    Also all those complaints we might read if I would believe 50% or more of them then I think I will never play a MMO or MMORPG.

    Thankfully as said I Judge what is given and what I can play.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by hidro
    when I go see a movie at the theater I rarely laugh or enjoy the movie... I just sit there and judge the movie, thinking is the movie good or bad and why. This habit seems to have been spreading like wildfire amongst gamers. It is no longer about sitting down and enjoying the game that the devs have prepared for us, but to rather find every thing that you don't like in the game and to let them know that you don't like it. 

    That's not gamers in general. It's forum bittervets.

    Gamers, in general, are spend their spare time playing the games they like. Some other gamers spend their spare time writing massive rants, essays, and manifestos about the games they don't like.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CaldicotCaldicot Member UncommonPosts: 450
    OP made me realize that I kinda miss reading game manuals.

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • I believe that once a game goes live many gamers look for the crowds to game with and this can drive even a subpar game to artificial heights in popularity but in the end quality hopefully wins out. That same popularity though can backfire and drag a game down as their servers struggle to keep up. Now all that I just said is probably just gibberish since I haven't seen anything interesting in a long time nor have I seen much that shakes up the mmo world.
  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by hidro
    when I go see a movie at the theater I rarely laugh or enjoy the movie... I just sit there and judge the movie, thinking is the movie good or bad and why. This habit seems to have been spreading like wildfire amongst gamers. It is no longer about sitting down and enjoying the game that the devs have prepared for us, but to rather find every thing that you don't like in the game and to let them know that you don't like it. 

    That's not gamers in general. It's forum bittervets.

    Gamers, in general, are spend their spare time playing the games they like. Some other gamers spend their spare time writing massive rants, essays, and manifestos about the games they don't like.

    I guess everyone is happy then :)

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Caldicot
    OP made me realize that I kinda miss reading game manuals.

    I don't. If i want to read, novels are much more entertaining. Video games are not about reading ... for me at least.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by hidro
    when I go see a movie at the theater I rarely laugh or enjoy the movie... I just sit there and judge the movie, thinking is the movie good or bad and why. This habit seems to have been spreading like wildfire amongst gamers. It is no longer about sitting down and enjoying the game that the devs have prepared for us, but to rather find every thing that you don't like in the game and to let them know that you don't like it. 

    That's not gamers in general. It's forum bittervets.

    Gamers, in general, are spend their spare time playing the games they like. Some other gamers spend their spare time writing massive rants, essays, and manifestos about the games they don't like.

    I guess everyone is happy then :)

    I am happy. If some people are not happy because of entertainment choices ... well ... tough. It is not like MMORPGs are a necessity.

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,580
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by hidro
    when I go see a movie at the theater I rarely laugh or enjoy the movie... I just sit there and judge the movie, thinking is the movie good or bad and why. This habit seems to have been spreading like wildfire amongst gamers. It is no longer about sitting down and enjoying the game that the devs have prepared for us, but to rather find every thing that you don't like in the game and to let them know that you don't like it. 

    That's not gamers in general. It's forum bittervets.

    Gamers, in general, are spend their spare time playing the games they like. Some other gamers spend their spare time writing massive rants, essays, and manifestos about the games they don't like.

    I agree.

    It does seem we are in an age where people do think there opinions are important and need to be heard. I wish people would leave their personal opinions/bias (whether good or bad) about the game out of their 'review' and concentrate on the game mechanics at hand.

    I generally don't care whether they like them or not, as I may love them.

     

    image
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,510


    Originally posted by hidro
    The reason I am posting this is because I went through this with ESO. I played the beta and came to the conclusion that the game "sucked" because it wasn't Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim online. I came to this realisation and decided to try ESO again on the last beta and to enjoy the game as a source of entertainment and to not critisize anything. It proved to be quite effective as I have now purchased ESO and will be replaying a lot of games with this new mindset.Food for thought,Cheers.Edit: I did space my paragraphs.. I will re-edit once I am off my phone.
    Thanks for the editing job. It is much easier to read :)

    I think the TES:O reference may be the gist of your post, though there could be more to it :)

    Generally, I agree. People are becoming more and more jaded, myself included. It is because of competition. If someone does not like something, there are hundreds, or thousands of other like products/services to choose from. Consumers can afford to be ultra-picky.

    As far as MMOs go, I weigh each one I play: Does the good outweigh the bad?

    Not very often does this happen today with MMOs and most other video games. Sure, they look all pretty and nice, but there is more to a game than eye candy, for me.

    As far as TES:O goes, I do not want to reward Zenimax for what they made TES into. If it were NOT a TES game, I would seriously look into it and probably have some fun playing it. Unfortunately, it IS a TES game and I can not help but compare it to the previous single player games. That happens with well known IPs.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • zekeofevzekeofev Member UncommonPosts: 240

    The problem I have with modern games is that I have sampled older games that have held my interest for much longer periods of time. When I try a new one it does not have that same taste. I expect a new game to have improvements in the taste but often times they have tried to expand the taste of their game to suit the majority and in doing so have made it not suit my likes. Thus I find myself enjoying older games much more than many newer games.

     

    To use a non MMO example- Super Mario World 2 (Yoshi's Island) is one of the best platformers of all time with solid controls that is fun to play casually and fun to compete times against friends. Modern platformers have better design in some areas but they sacrifice in other areas. I would argue that no modern game surpasses this action platformer for the SNES.

     

    The same design is true in the MMO space as well. They might have a shiny IP with top end graphics but the gameplay is often not as engaging as older games in the genre.

  • SadSwordfishSadSwordfish Member CommonPosts: 78

    I don't think these things are as cut and dry as some people make it out to be. Sorry for sounding boring with all the there-are-many-different-people-devs-and-situations-that-differ-from-what-OP-has-suggested.

     

    If you look at ESO, what I feel like is that people went into this game expecting a lot of problems. SWTOR and FFXIV launces were filled with I-TOLD-YOU-SO type people. I think ESO might mark a change. People knew what they were getting. I've been browsing 3-4 other forums with dedicated TESO threads, and in all of them the traditional MMO-fanboy crap is significantly reduced. Everyone is acknowledging the problems and acting like it's no big deal. "its a new game", "bugs suck, but im having a lot of fun anyway", "im enjoying it so far". 

    There is very little of "this is the best game 4evar!!!" and very little "WOW SUX" and very little "ESO IS THE WOW KILLER". 

     

    And as someone who havent even bought TESO yet, but loves the MMORPG genre, like many of you, this pleases me. I'm sure many of you remember 2008. The year if failure. The year of disappointment, when Warhammer and Conan hit, and the sadness hit everyone like a tsunami. It was really bittersweet. And it took years to reshape the industry as a F2P market. And now we are seeing a second win for P2P, and I am sitting here hoping that Wildstar will also be received well by fans, and we will have two new big P2P MMORPGs that move forward.

     

     

     

    I'm a guy who rarely regrets going to the movies or the games I buy. I think the last movie I saw in the cinema were I felt bored was probably Les Miserables, and that was because musicals aint my thing, most of the songs were not my fancy, and it was really long, but even though it had all these, I was still glad I saw it. I was still glad I spend money on it. I know it sounds weird, but I felt my mind expanded a little by watching it. It had sick cinematography, Russel Crowe/Jackman were jacked, a few songs were great, I mean... Even if a lot of things are not to your liking, there still might be something really cool that makes something worth it.

     

    I don't think SWTOR is a bad game. In fact I think it has the best storytelling I have ever seen in a MMORPG. I think the effort they put into the class story was out of this world. Sure, I long for KOTOR 3, but it is what it is. And Sith Warrior, Jedi Knight and Imperial Agent class stories from 1-55 are.. they feel like an entire KOTOR in themselves. It's really staggering to me how you can say a game like that is crap in it's entirety, when in reality it's just uneven. It lacks some things, but in other areas it's really, really good. 

    The Sith Warrior story was shockingly good. Like I was almost more drawn to it than in Mass Effect 3. And Mass Effect 3 was a game that was totally worth playing, even with an unsatisfying ending. Another good example of getting angry at a very, impressive game that just didn't finish strong. 

     

     

    I am not saying you should pretend everything is amazing and positive thinking bla bla. I am just saying that I feel more appreciative towards a lot of movies and games when I just focus on the things I like. I don't really make negative reviews, or talk a lot about things that disappoint me. Sometimes I do read a negative review if I find it interesting, but I find that I am having much more fun, talking about cool things. I don't believe in Utopia, or the game that will save the MMORPG genre. I just believe in getting the best out of the things we have today. Some gamers on these boards seems to have been angry for 10 years for a game that will never come. 

    Casuals, or noobs, or uninformed. Whatever label you may put on people who play the "bad" games by these MMOPRPG-Purist elitistic standards, who is really winning if these clueless people are having fun? Surely not the people waiting for something that is never gonna come. 

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    The thing I think is weird is that people complain about having no choice in a sea of options, yet blame the industry that they can't find the one solitary style of game they enjoy. We have MOBA's, Themeparks, Unique titles like GW2, Sandboxes,.. MMORTS, MMOFPS...etc yet there's not a single option for some of these people.  They paint the genre as being one sided, and unwilling to branch out. It's kind of ironic really.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SadSwordfishSadSwordfish Member CommonPosts: 78
    Originally posted by Distopia

    The thing I think is weird is that people complain about having no choice in a sea of options, yet blame the industry that they can't find the one solitary style of game they enjoy. We have MOBA's, Themeparks, Unique titles like GW2, Sandboxes,.. MMORTS, MMOFPS...etc yet there's not a single option for some of these people.  They paint the genre as being one sided, and unwilling to branch out. It's kind of ironic really.

    Some people don't want to be happy. It's always someone elses fault. "Thanks a lot Obama", or the developers or some nerfs. Always something is wrong that just keeps them from enjoying something. Meanwhile some other guy is falling off his chair because his Orc wizard can dance in a video game. 

  • ace5572ace5572 Member Posts: 113

    The problem isn't with the gamers....the problem is with the Publishers. Look at games made 10+ years ago and look at them now. The only thing moving forward are graphics. Everything else is moving backwards.

    Its all about making a game just complete enough to make money off of it. They aren't interested in making GOOD games. Games used to be about art and fun. Ever since WoW corporate america figured out there was a lot of money to be made in videogames. And like everything corporate america gets their hands on becomes trash, so have most games.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Originally posted by Distopia

    The thing I think is weird is that people complain about having no choice in a sea of options, yet blame the industry that they can't find the one solitary style of game they enjoy. We have MOBA's, Themeparks, Unique titles like GW2, Sandboxes,.. MMORTS, MMOFPS...etc yet there's not a single option for some of these people.  They paint the genre as being one sided, and unwilling to branch out. It's kind of ironic really.

    Agreed. My problem is that i can't find enough time to play all the games i am interesting in.

    There are plenty of options ... entertainment is everywhere.

     

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,305

    i blame the internet lol

    i laugh but that's what it truly is. people on the internet are overly cynical.

    i mean look at this place? you are frowned upon if you are a fan of a game and not cynical enough.

    i can be cynical at times, especially when it comes to movies and music.

    but to hate and bash almost everything because it's the cool thing to do seems to be the issue here and all over the internet.

    its gotten to the point where people search for things to complain about just for the sake of complaining.

    i could never be like that, no matter what game we are talking about.

    i would sooner quit gaming all together if i hated everything that much, i would be fucking miserable.

    that's just me though.

  • psychosizpsychosiz Member Posts: 22
    Fair enough points the OP makes.  For me the issue is a game fun.  In this case I enjoyed ESO, but not enough to buy the game and pay a sub.   I can get more bang for my buck spending my money elsewhere.  While I have no trouble affording the game and sub, I just don't think the game is good enough to warrant both.
  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770
    Don't expect to have fun in a game if you go into it unhappy.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,552

    OP...

    I think the REAL truth is MANY at this point are tired of these designs and want a REAL RPG experience and NONE of these games are offering it.

    These games are designed like an assembly line all doing the same thing,create quests to hold your hand through levels

    Some gamer's have been defending these very shallow designs because they might add some voice acting or looting or story.Story that is a funny one,stories have been in gaming for years,just now people are noticing,pretty much proves players have been doing nothing but racing to levels and not seeing a game at all.

    1-90=race ,don't pay attention to anything just get those levels fast as can be.

    end game=grind gear.

    End game is full of hypocrisy.All we hear is people hate grinding mobs but prefer errand running for levels ,yet they all race to end game to do what?LMAO to grind the same mobs over and over and over,makes you wonder if gamer's even know what they want or what they are actually playing.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,510


    Originally posted by Distopia
    The thing I think is weird is that people complain about having no choice in a sea of options, yet blame the industry that they can't find the one solitary style of game they enjoy. We have MOBA's, Themeparks, Unique titles like GW2, Sandboxes,.. MMORTS, MMOFPS...etc yet there's not a single option for some of these people.  They paint the genre as being one sided, and unwilling to branch out. It's kind of ironic really.
    If it was just about genres, you would have a point. But within each and every genre and game, there are features that players like/dislike.

    The very old, very tired, and very overstated posts that say "Here is a game that has your feature, go play it!" misses the point.

    I enjoy MMORPGs as a genre. Do I like ALL MMORPGs? Heck no. I enjoyed EQ, even the bad parts but did not like EVE. Themepark vs. Sandbox, you may be saying. Not really. What I disliked about EVE is that you play most of the game (the leveling part, anyway) logged out.

    The same with single player RPGs. I enjoy Skyrim (a weak RPG at best) yet can not play The Witcher (a stellar RPG, if I believe what others say about it). Dragon Age: Origins is hard for me to get into. Morrowind has been the best RPG I have played to date, even with its bad points.

    My point being:
    Sure, this site alone lists almost 600 MMOs. Lots of variety and choices to choose from there. Only a handful have the old time "log in and waste time" feel to them anymore. Of that handful, most are indy trainwrecks with bad graphics, bad UIs, bad gameplay, and other parts that may miss what players are looking for. Even the "old games" have changed their feel for the newer players of today that want everything except wasting time in a video game.

    While there may be choices, most MMOs today "feel" the same as all other MMOs. They are designed so players aren't "wasting their time" while playing.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Posted by AlBQuirky on 4/07/14 at 2:20:03 AM
    While there may be choices, most MMOs today "feel" the same as all other MMOs. They are designed so players aren't "wasting their time" while playing.

    That's an interesting way to put it.  I feel like I am wasting more time today when I play these games.  I believe this is because the games don't really having any meaning to them.  You jump in and out quickly until you complete all the so called content (quests) and move to the next game.  This is fine if you just want to waste a small amount of time on something that isn't very meaningful.  If you want to spend a lot of time in a game and have a meaningful experience then it's not really available.  If you are more interested in living in a fantasy world with other people and do things that require a large investment of oneself that is not available.

    I also feel that part of the issue is that I don't like many of the modern takes on fantasy.  I much prefer how fantasy was depicted and represented in the 80s and 90s.  It was more true to the classic tales of adventure you read in old books.  The reason those books are around still is because they were really good.  Now everyone is trying to produce their own take on things in the name of innovation and equality, but it's just ended up a boring generic story in order to offend no one.  That is why I many times prefer games with very little story and have most of it left up to the imagination. 

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    No amount of self-realization is going to change a bad game into a good one for me. It would be like trying to convince myself to like mustard all the sudden.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Posted by AlBQuirky on 4/07/14 at 2:20:03 AM
    While there may be choices, most MMOs today "feel" the same as all other MMOs. They are designed so players aren't "wasting their time" while playing.

    That's an interesting way to put it.  I feel like I am wasting more time today when I play these games.  I believe this is because the games don't really having any meaning to them.  You jump in and out quickly until you complete all the so called content (quests) and move to the next game.  This is fine if you just want to waste a small amount of time on something that isn't very meaningful.  If you want to spend a lot of time in a game and have a meaningful experience then it's not really available.  If you are more interested in living in a fantasy world with other people and do things that require a large investment of oneself that is not available.

    But I don't think any MMO, indeed any game at all is "meaningful".  They are entertainment, nothing more.  I don't feel like I accomplished anything by playing through a video game, it was a good way to take up some free time and when I'm done, it was fun, now I go looking for something different to do.  I don't feel I accomplished anything by reading a book, watching a movie or anything else either.  It exists to entertain me in my down hours, nothing more.

    I also feel that part of the issue is that I don't like many of the modern takes on fantasy.  I much prefer how fantasy was depicted and represented in the 80s and 90s.  It was more true to the classic tales of adventure you read in old books.  The reason those books are around still is because they were really good.  Now everyone is trying to produce their own take on things in the name of innovation and equality, but it's just ended up a boring generic story in order to offend no one.  That is why I many times prefer games with very little story and have most of it left up to the imagination. 

    I can't stand fantasy anyhow, I realized one day, while reading a fantasy novel back in the 80s, that I hated the genre and have never enjoyed it since.  It's unfortunate that so many people like it  because I think swords and sorcery and the like is just mindless.

    Give me a great expansive sci-fi game any day.  Fuck fantasy.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Flyte27
    Posted by AlBQuirky on 4/07/14 at 2:20:03 AM
    While there may be choices, most MMOs today "feel" the same as all other MMOs. They are designed so players aren't "wasting their time" while playing.

    That's an interesting way to put it.  I feel like I am wasting more time today when I play these games.  I believe this is because the games don't really having any meaning to them.  You jump in and out quickly until you complete all the so called content (quests) and move to the next game.  This is fine if you just want to waste a small amount of time on something that isn't very meaningful.  If you want to spend a lot of time in a game and have a meaningful experience then it's not really available.  If you are more interested in living in a fantasy world with other people and do things that require a large investment of oneself that is not available.

    But I don't think any MMO, indeed any game at all is "meaningful".  They are entertainment, nothing more.  I don't feel like I accomplished anything by playing through a video game, it was a good way to take up some free time and when I'm done, it was fun, now I go looking for something different to do.  I don't feel I accomplished anything by reading a book, watching a movie or anything else either.  It exists to entertain me in my down hours, nothing more.

    I also feel that part of the issue is that I don't like many of the modern takes on fantasy.  I much prefer how fantasy was depicted and represented in the 80s and 90s.  It was more true to the classic tales of adventure you read in old books.  The reason those books are around still is because they were really good.  Now everyone is trying to produce their own take on things in the name of innovation and equality, but it's just ended up a boring generic story in order to offend no one.  That is why I many times prefer games with very little story and have most of it left up to the imagination. 

    I can't stand fantasy anyhow, I realized one day, while reading a fantasy novel back in the 80s, that I hated the genre and have never enjoyed it since.  It's unfortunate that so many people like it  because I think swords and sorcery and the like is just mindless.

    Give me a great expansive sci-fi game any day.  Fuck fantasy.

    Sci fi is just fantasy with laser guns AKA Star Wars.  I like that as well, but I prefer the earth to outer space.  It has a lot nicer colors for humans to behold.  It's our natural environment after all.  Magic is just an awesome thing in concept.  It's a true mind over matter type concept.

    As for your opinion of wasting time on things that's fine.  To me those types of things aren't a waste of time.  What is a waste of time is generally work and other things that are required to survive IMO.  Most of the time what people do is not something that is essential to or making our lives better as a while.  In reality almost everything would be considered a waste of time to humans other than procreation and survival via keeping your offspring alive.  The rest is just added on and isn't needed.  What really gives something meaning in life is the person who believes in it.

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