Originally posted by LuckyDucky I read over almost this entire thread!
One theme that stands out for me is players from the original EQ looking for an MMO that will duplicate the gaming experience they had when they first entered the gaming universe of Everquest.
I don't think any MMO can duplicate the experience of playing our very first MMO, that experience is a one time only revelation.
Aye, many people enjoyed EQ, especially pre-$ony but didnt know it at the time. $ony has completely ruined the game for some, but others, who seem to enjoy the eternal grind, are absolutely engrossed in it. EQ was the first MMO I ever played, and looking back at all the death penalties, and travel that would seem tedious to some, is what made the game that much more fun. Theres a certain breed of gamers who are willing to put up with it, and actually call it 'fun.'
Vanguard is something I am looking forward to along with a couple other MMOs I consider promising. I am looking for an alternative to World of Warcraft. Something with deeper and more challenging PvE content. PvP is fine too but for me it is just one aspect of a complete MMO. PvP combat gameplay alone is too narrow to carry my interest for months on end. Ditto for grouping and instance running. I guess what I am looking for is an immersible universe with lots of PvE content. A seamless world with loads of exploration, discovery and challenge, both in the solo sense and the grouping sense.
I'm looking forward to Vanguard as well, quite a few of my friends are going to play it as well. PvP is a fun dynamic for those who wish to do so, but is not for everyone. Myself I enjoy dueling every now and then, but other than that if I want to PvP I'll play Counter-Strike. As far as WoW goes, I didn't play it much, got to level 5 or so and was totally bored with it. Having a game world that is fun to explore is awesome, I remember walking into new zones in EQ back in the day and not knowing if I was going to have to go through a hellish corpse retrieval or not.
All in all, I think Vanguard is going to be a great game, and as with any game it has its fanbois and haters, only trying it will convince me if I'll enjoy it or not
Just for fun, let's take a look at people who work at Sigil i.e. those working on Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and what they had done in a previous life in connection with SoE or other games. You can see why people think it will be an EQ clone. Heh.
Brad McQuaid - Co-designer of Everquest Jeff Butler - Managed Everquest live teams Keith Parkinson - Box cover art of SoE games Milo D. Cooper - Primary artist behind EQ character models David Gilbertson - Interior Art Lead for EQ2 Lee Harker - Texture environments for EQ2 Martin Karlsson - EQ2 Artist Bill W. Fisher - Associate Game Designer on EQ Live team and game mechanics/content in EQ2 Ryan Elam - Tools/code programmer for EQ and THE nerf man, worked on 2 EQ expansions Steve Clover - EQ co-designer Thad Clevenger - EQ2 modelling, texturing and animation Christian Akesson - EQ2 artist Cindy Bowens- EQ Community Relations Manager and responsible for overseeing live events Amanda Tarr - EQ Online adventures PS2 programmer Lawrence Poe - EQ spell guy, spell content, including spell effects and balancing Ryan Zimmerman - EQ2 texture and modelling Michael Butler - SoE Game Operations Manager, hardware, software updates and keeping servers up 24/7 Kevin McPherson - EQ programmer William Wat - EQ2 lead artist, 3d modelling, texture mapping Salim Grant - EQ Associate Designer Scott Ray - Worked on Lord of Everquest Mike Thompson - EQ, EQ online, Planetside, SWG,EQ2 database development and administration Michelle Butler - EQ Customer Service Manager/Guide Liaison James D. Romedy EQ Associate Lead Artist Ivaylo Vaklinov - EQ2 concept artist Zack Karlsson - EQ (EQ online, Planetside, SWG) International Customer Service Manager Ed Hocking - EQ, SWG, Planetside, EQ2 QA Department Todd Schmidt - EQ Programmer Gary Grobson - Creator of the EQ Events Team, EQ Investigations Team and ran the popular "Best of the Best" EverQuest tournaments Rob Matzker - EQ Games Master Jeremy Jiao - SWG Artist Devin Lafontaine SWG artist David Forrest - Horizons programmer (eep!) Darrin McPherson - Earth and Beyond programmer (double eep!) Marc Scattergood - Mythica Game Designer (triple eep!) Jack Turner - Unreal mod artist Rick Winter - Mythica artist ( ) Jon Grande - Microsoft Games Studios Lead Product Planner Mike Nicholson - Matrix Online Artist Rachel David - Matrix Online Live Events Team Steve Williams - The Matrix Online storyline content Ben Phongluangtham - The Matrix Online GM Chris Chamberlain - City of Heroes Senior Character Artist Aaron Contreras - World of Warcraft Quality Assurance Anaylst (oh my!) Vincent Napoli - Blizzard Entertainment Games Master Chris Manprin - Diablo II, Warcraft 3, Worlds of Warcraft and Starcraft: Ghost QA Department
Michael Mann (no not the film guy), Derek McDevitt, Peter Rocchio, Stacie Scattergood, Doug Cronkhite, Justin Deeb, David Baldwin, Kevin Swadick, Ben Tarr, Paul Luna, Den Beauvais, Andy Platter, AR Schleicher, Paul Molina, Lisa Boleyn, Paul Greshko, Steve Hoelle, Nick Parkinson, Matthew McCulloch, Brad Stokan, Erik Nilsson, Suzanne Bailey, Matt Reynolds, Justin Gerbracht, Sean Hamilton, Zach Lute, Monday Platter, Donna Parkinson, Brandon Bickford, Tad Ehrlich, Jeff Damron, Ben Thompson, Christian Piccolo, Anita Sujarit, Robert Smiley, Todd Masten, Hannah Brown, Tina Hou, Nathan Brock, James Rochelle.
The people without any info are no less important, just was selective about what games, if any, they have worked on. They are all talented I'm sure and hopefully have a Very Good: Sense of Humour
I agree 110%. The DDO threads about instancing is the worst. If you dont like a game and are not gonna play then leave the people who want to alone
Did i miss something here?? I really dont see anywhere in that where i downed anyone elses opinion.
It sounded like you were asking people not to post negative opinions about a game. If that wasn't what you meant than I apologize.
The only thing that i was agreeing with was the pointlessness of spamming a forum of a game that you have no interest in.
I will not be buying DDO, but I still post there. I don't start threads to specifically bash the game, if someone starts a thread, I'll post my opinion, just like the person that started the thread did.
As far as being pointless, well of course it's pointless, you don't get much more pointless than arguing about a video game. I saw a signature once that said: "Arguing about a Video Game is sort of like the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded." I try to keep that in mind when I post, but it doesn't always help.
As a matter of fact i welcome differing opinions and have had mine changed more than once buy listening to someone else. The forums are here to dicuss opinion and its a great tool for Devs to use in makeing a MMO. And i do not try to convince the world that the game i like is the best one or the only game out there, i just give my opinion and if you agree cool, if not thats cool to.
Again, that's not what it sounded like to me. If I misunderstood, I apologize.
Ive liked and agreed with alot of your posts Jod, so ease off the flameing and save it for the fanboi or another flamer and lets be friends
LOL. Sorry, it's sort of like Baseball, you're only as good as your last post . I don't typically look too closely at the name.
Wepps and I used to fight a lot on the SWG forums. I didn't/don't hate him (heck I don't even know him), and I didn't go out of my way to argue with his posts. He just said a lot I didn't agree with and I felt he contridicted himself a lot. Lately, I don't konw if I've learned his style, or he's changed the way he posts, but while I didn't agree with what he said, he supported facts with evidence, and qualified what was opinion as his opinion, something I didn't see him do when we were arguing.
So I don't "go after" anyone, just like I don't support anyone.
I look at a list of Sigil's employees and I don't think "Wow, lots of them seem to be from EQ and EQ2", I think "Wow, what a talented experienced bunch! They must all be bringing a lot to the company."
Brad has been answering a lot of peoples comments and criticsms about VG:SoH being like EQ. Pretty much it boils down to he has always been a big MUD fan. When they put EQ together they did it from the experience they had with MUDs. Now they are making Vanguard they are going back to MUDs again, to get all of their goodness into Vanguard. If Vanguard and EQ seem similar then it is because they are both built on similar foundations.
I bet most of those people who shrug VG off and say "Its too much like EQ" will end up playing VG.
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
Originally posted by LuckyDucky I read over almost this entire thread! One theme that stands out for me is players from the original EQ looking for an MMO that will duplicate the gaming experience they had when they first entered the gaming universe of Everquest.
yet these same people say its not going to be a clone of EQ.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
yet these same people say its not going to be a clone of EQ.
You can recapture the essence of something without cloning it. Just look at the Elder ScrollsTM series of games. Each time the remake it completely, while still capturing the essence of what was good about the predecessor.
That's what I'm hoping for with VanguardTM . I know it's going to be a very special game.
If you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it.
If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence.
see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P
but I do agree, it will be a very special game. I really just hope the features im seeing will be in at release, especially the variety of races.
its not really a bad thing that people want the same experience of everquest in a different setting and even more fine tuned. Ive often wondered why game developers make sequals to their games. Everquest 2's biggest issue for me was that it was a replication of a game world a lot of us played until we were sick of. its almost like they lacked the creativity to come up with a new idea.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it. If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence. see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P[/b][/quote]
and your point? you can call every single game a clone of something els couldn't you? i mean vanguard is not going to be an exact replica of eq is it?
is it going to be alot like eq? yeah i think it will be and I'm glad.....some people seem to think it wont be like eq, what difference does it make?
if its labeled a clone will that turn you away from the game? i don't get it..... the game sounds interesting to me so i am going to play it. i liked eq and judging from the info i have read about vanguard i will like it to. if it is a clone so be it, as long as i have fun in a game that is all that matters.
I you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it. If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence. see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P[/b][/quote] and your point? you can call every single game a clone of something els couldn't you? i mean vanguard is not going to be an exact replica of eq is it? is it going to be alot like eq? yeah i think it will be and I'm glad.....some people seem to think it wont be like eq, what difference does it make? if its labeled a clone will that turn you away from the game? i don't get it..... the game sounds interesting to me so i am going to play it. i liked eq and judging from the info i have read about vanguard i will like it to. if it is a clone so be it, as long as i have fun in a game that is all that matters.
nope, I cant really say every game catches the "essence" of each of its predecessors. in fact, this is the first time ive heard of an MMO, other than a sequal, to admit they plan on doing this.
but like I said, clone or no clone it doesnt matter to me. I never said it was a bad thing, but in my opinion it appears to be a clone (even the UI looks the same). why people are offended by that is beyond me...
but the point is based on your last sentance, we agree
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Originally posted by angerr [quote]Originally posted by Rayx0r[b][url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=essence] I you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it.If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence.see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P[/b][/quote] and your point? you can call every single game a clone of something els couldn't you? i mean vanguard is not going to be an exact replica of eq is it? is it going to be alot like eq? yeah i think it will be and I'm glad.....some people seem to think it wont be like eq, what difference does it make? if its labeled a clone will that turn you away from the game? i don't get it..... the game sounds interesting to me so i am going to play it. i liked eq and judging from the info i have read about vanguard i will like it to. if it is a clone so be it, as long as i have fun in a game that is all that matters.
nope, I cant really say every game catches the "essence" of each of its predecessors. in fact, this is the first time ive heard of an MMO, other than a sequal, to admit they plan on doing this. but like I said, clone or no clone it doesnt matter to me. I never said it was a bad thing, but in my opinion it appears to be a clone (even the UI looks the same). why people are offended by that is beyond me... but the point is based on your last sentance, we agree[/b][/quote]
fair enough, i read and quoted your post before you edited it, so i really wasn't sure what you were trying to say.
Comments
Aye, many people enjoyed EQ, especially pre-$ony but didnt know it at the time. $ony has completely ruined the game for some, but others, who seem to enjoy the eternal grind, are absolutely engrossed in it. EQ was the first MMO I ever played, and looking back at all the death penalties, and travel that would seem tedious to some, is what made the game that much more fun. Theres a certain breed of gamers who are willing to put up with it, and actually call it 'fun.'
I'm looking forward to Vanguard as well, quite a few of my friends are going to play it as well. PvP is a fun dynamic for those who wish to do so, but is not for everyone. Myself I enjoy dueling every now and then, but other than that if I want to PvP I'll play Counter-Strike. As far as WoW goes, I didn't play it much, got to level 5 or so and was totally bored with it. Having a game world that is fun to explore is awesome, I remember walking into new zones in EQ back in the day and not knowing if I was going to have to go through a hellish corpse retrieval or not.
All in all, I think Vanguard is going to be a great game, and as with any game it has its fanbois and haters, only trying it will convince me if I'll enjoy it or not
Just for fun, let's take a look at people who work at Sigil i.e. those working on Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and what they had done in a previous life in connection with SoE or other games.
You can see why people think it will be an EQ clone. Heh.
Brad McQuaid - Co-designer of Everquest
Jeff Butler - Managed Everquest live teams
Keith Parkinson - Box cover art of SoE games
Milo D. Cooper - Primary artist behind EQ character models
David Gilbertson - Interior Art Lead for EQ2
Lee Harker - Texture environments for EQ2
Martin Karlsson - EQ2 Artist
Bill W. Fisher - Associate Game Designer on EQ Live team and game mechanics/content in EQ2
Ryan Elam - Tools/code programmer for EQ and THE nerf man, worked on 2 EQ expansions
Steve Clover - EQ co-designer
Thad Clevenger - EQ2 modelling, texturing and animation
Christian Akesson - EQ2 artist
Cindy Bowens- EQ Community Relations Manager and responsible for overseeing live events
Amanda Tarr - EQ Online adventures PS2 programmer
Lawrence Poe - EQ spell guy, spell content, including spell effects and balancing
Ryan Zimmerman - EQ2 texture and modelling
Michael Butler - SoE Game Operations Manager, hardware, software updates and keeping servers up 24/7
Kevin McPherson - EQ programmer
William Wat - EQ2 lead artist, 3d modelling, texture mapping
Salim Grant - EQ Associate Designer
Scott Ray - Worked on Lord of Everquest
Mike Thompson - EQ, EQ online, Planetside, SWG,EQ2 database development and administration
Michelle Butler - EQ Customer Service Manager/Guide Liaison
James D. Romedy EQ Associate Lead Artist
Ivaylo Vaklinov - EQ2 concept artist
Zack Karlsson - EQ (EQ online, Planetside, SWG) International Customer Service Manager
Ed Hocking - EQ, SWG, Planetside, EQ2 QA Department
Todd Schmidt - EQ Programmer
Gary Grobson - Creator of the EQ Events Team, EQ Investigations Team and ran the popular "Best of the Best" EverQuest tournaments
Rob Matzker - EQ Games Master
Jeremy Jiao - SWG Artist
Devin Lafontaine SWG artist
David Forrest - Horizons programmer (eep!)
Darrin McPherson - Earth and Beyond programmer (double eep!)
Marc Scattergood - Mythica Game Designer (triple eep!)
Jack Turner - Unreal mod artist
Rick Winter - Mythica artist ( )
Jon Grande - Microsoft Games Studios Lead Product Planner
Mike Nicholson - Matrix Online Artist
Rachel David - Matrix Online Live Events Team
Steve Williams - The Matrix Online storyline content
Ben Phongluangtham - The Matrix Online GM
Chris Chamberlain - City of Heroes Senior Character Artist
Aaron Contreras - World of Warcraft Quality Assurance Anaylst (oh my!)
Vincent Napoli - Blizzard Entertainment Games Master
Chris Manprin - Diablo II, Warcraft 3, Worlds of Warcraft and Starcraft: Ghost QA Department
Michael Mann (no not the film guy), Derek McDevitt, Peter Rocchio,
Stacie Scattergood, Doug Cronkhite, Justin Deeb, David Baldwin, Kevin Swadick, Ben Tarr, Paul Luna, Den Beauvais, Andy Platter, AR Schleicher, Paul Molina, Lisa Boleyn, Paul Greshko, Steve Hoelle, Nick Parkinson, Matthew McCulloch, Brad Stokan, Erik Nilsson, Suzanne Bailey, Matt Reynolds, Justin Gerbracht, Sean Hamilton, Zach Lute, Monday Platter, Donna Parkinson, Brandon Bickford, Tad Ehrlich, Jeff Damron, Ben Thompson, Christian Piccolo, Anita Sujarit, Robert Smiley, Todd Masten, Hannah Brown, Tina Hou, Nathan Brock, James Rochelle.
The people without any info are no less important, just was selective about what games, if any, they have worked on. They are all talented I'm sure and hopefully have a Very Good: Sense of Humour
Did i miss something here?? I really dont see anywhere in that where i downed anyone elses opinion.
It sounded like you were asking people not to post negative opinions about a game. If that wasn't what you meant than I apologize.
The only thing that i was agreeing with was the pointlessness of spamming a forum of a game that you have no interest in.
I will not be buying DDO, but I still post there. I don't start threads to specifically bash the game, if someone starts a thread, I'll post my opinion, just like the person that started the thread did.
As far as being pointless, well of course it's pointless, you don't get much more pointless than arguing about a video game. I saw a signature once that said: "Arguing about a Video Game is sort of like the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded." I try to keep that in mind when I post, but it doesn't always help.
As a matter of fact i welcome differing opinions and have had mine changed more than once buy listening to someone else. The forums are here to dicuss opinion and its a great tool for Devs to use in makeing a MMO. And i do not try to convince the world that the game i like is the best one or the only game out there, i just give my opinion and if you agree cool, if not thats cool to.
Again, that's not what it sounded like to me. If I misunderstood, I apologize.
Ive liked and agreed with alot of your posts Jod, so ease off the flameing and save it for the fanboi or another flamer and lets be friends
LOL. Sorry, it's sort of like Baseball, you're only as good as your last post
. I don't typically look too closely at the name.
Wepps and I used to fight a lot on the SWG forums. I didn't/don't hate him (heck I don't even know him), and I didn't go out of my way to argue with his posts. He just said a lot I didn't agree with and I felt he contridicted himself a lot. Lately, I don't konw if I've learned his style, or he's changed the way he posts, but while I didn't agree with what he said, he supported facts with evidence, and qualified what was opinion as his opinion, something I didn't see him do when we were arguing.
So I don't "go after" anyone, just like I don't support anyone.
I look at a list of Sigil's employees and I don't think "Wow, lots of them seem to be from EQ and EQ2", I think "Wow, what a talented experienced bunch! They must all be bringing a lot to the company."
Brad has been answering a lot of peoples comments and criticsms about VG:SoH being like EQ. Pretty much it boils down to he has always been a big MUD fan. When they put EQ together they did it from the experience they had with MUDs. Now they are making Vanguard they are going back to MUDs again, to get all of their goodness into Vanguard. If Vanguard and EQ seem similar then it is because they are both built on similar foundations.
I bet most of those people who shrug VG off and say "Its too much like EQ" will end up playing VG.
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
You can recapture the essence of something without cloning it. Just look at the Elder ScrollsTM series of games. Each time the remake it completely, while still capturing the essence of what was good about the predecessor.
That's what I'm hoping for with VanguardTM . I know it's going to be a very special game.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=essence
If you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it.
If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence.
see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P
but I do agree, it will be a very special game. I really just hope the features im seeing will be in at release, especially the variety of races.
its not really a bad thing that people want the same experience of everquest in a different setting and even more fine tuned. Ive often wondered why game developers make sequals to their games. Everquest 2's biggest issue for me was that it was a replication of a game world a lot of us played until we were sick of. its almost like they lacked the creativity to come up with a new idea.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
[quote]Originally posted by Rayx0r
[b][url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=essence]
I you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it.
If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence.
see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P[/b][/quote]
and your point? you can call every single game a clone of something els couldn't you? i mean vanguard is not going to be an exact replica of eq is it?
is it going to be alot like eq? yeah i think it will be and I'm glad.....some people seem to think it wont be like eq, what difference does it make?
if its labeled a clone will that turn you away from the game? i don't get it..... the game sounds interesting to me so i am going to play it. i liked eq and judging from the info i have read about vanguard i will like it to. if it is a clone so be it, as long as i have fun in a game that is all that matters.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
nope, I cant really say every game catches the "essence" of each of its predecessors. in fact, this is the first time ive heard of an MMO, other than a sequal, to admit they plan on doing this.
but like I said, clone or no clone it doesnt matter to me. I never said it was a bad thing, but in my opinion it appears to be a clone (even the UI looks the same). why people are offended by that is beyond me...
but the point is based on your last sentance, we agree
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
[quote]Originally posted by Rayx0r
[b]
Originally posted by angerr
[quote]Originally posted by Rayx0r[b][url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=essence] I you recapture the essence of something, you're replicating it.If I were a mad scientist and I wanted to clone you, I would recapture your essence.see, I can draw irrelevant conclusions to make my point too :P[/b][/quote]
and your point? you can call every single game a clone of something els couldn't you? i mean vanguard is not going to be an exact replica of eq is it?
is it going to be alot like eq? yeah i think it will be and I'm glad.....some people seem to think it wont be like eq, what difference does it make?
if its labeled a clone will that turn you away from the game? i don't get it..... the game sounds interesting to me so i am going to play it. i liked eq and judging from the info i have read about vanguard i will like it to. if it is a clone so be it, as long as i have fun in a game that is all that matters.
nope, I cant really say every game catches the "essence" of each of its predecessors. in fact, this is the first time ive heard of an MMO, other than a sequal, to admit they plan on doing this.
but like I said, clone or no clone it doesnt matter to me. I never said it was a bad thing, but in my opinion it appears to be a clone (even the UI looks the same). why people are offended by that is beyond me...
but the point is based on your last sentance, we agree[/b][/quote]
fair enough, i read and quoted your post before you edited it, so i really wasn't sure what you were trying to say.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....