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Zenimax got it wrong.

13

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  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Originally posted by alicorn

     

     

    What?

    When was the server down for 4 or 5 hours?  Must have been when I finally slept because I didn't notice it.

    Expand the crafting system to what?  Seem pretty well fleshed out to me, what do you wan to craft that you can't?

    You think the game is short on content?

    There are some things that need fixing but do I dare use the "T" word here?

    One of the Betas in January was taken down for half of a Saturday and then for a good time the next day.

     

    Crafting system is garbage. Everyone can collect everything and if people are wiling to throw a few points into one trait line for each profession theyre able to also make everything in the game. There are no restrictions whatsoever beyond spending a few points. So you dont even really have to make a crafting alt.

     

    The fact that these adventure zones arent in the game and wont be for release and will be a bunch of daily quests then yeah I can say with a good certainty the content is very limited. If you put any time in at all this past weekend and had some higher level toons on each Alliance you could have seen every quest (if they werent broken) for the first two maps of each alliance. Which are going to be the same ones you see at level 50+ just scaled up. So basically someone could have already seen about 40% of all the quests in the game. I got the 100 quests completed deed on a couple guys. But that includes every link of each chain I would imagine. But still 100 quests and it took me most of the quests in the second maps to get  those, as well as some Cyrodiil quests. That was from playing 6-10 hours  for  4 beta weekends for TWO characters. So 30-40 hours to do a couple hundred quests on two classes on two alliances. People might try and spin that as a lot but it isnt. Not when a few of those hours were also spent goofing around in Cyrodiil PvPing.

     

    I said it before and will say it again if the game doesnt get taken down a bunch of times there will be people at max level before the games official release on April 4. I suspect there will be max toons and guys who found all the soul shards as well before then if the game is up continuously. Now whether hey do all the quests or not is a question but does it matter? content only matters in how it is utilized by the players, and what they expect when they reach certain thresh holds.

     

    PvE is nearly non existent once you get to a max level, and PvP isnt going to be enough to hold people. Some guys might have some time sinks maxing out every crafting skill and learning every crafting upgrade (which can be learned offline), and maybe searching for skyshards But once the wikis and maps and guides come out that cuts the time down for a lot of that stuff by about half if not more.

     

    This game is a shell of an MMO right now, even the PvP which is supposed to be the focus isnt all that in depth, and once they start nerfing and 'balancing' stuff in the there it will derail quickly. Right now its zerg on zerg and a few roaming groups running around a map about 4 times the size it needs to be unable to find anyone to fight. Even after these few betas peopel are already bored of it, and seeing its limitations, and calling for arenas. (which cant happen because that would kill the Cyrodiil populations even more.)

     

    But these opinion issues are not worth discussing because if they cant fix phasing/layering, and the other stand alone bugs and performance issues the game will be DoA within two months.

  • vmopedvmoped Member Posts: 1,708
    Originally posted by rodarin
    Originally posted by alicorn

     

     

    ...

    One of the Betas in January was taken down for half of a Saturday and then for a good time the next day.

     ...

    I don't agree with your assessment rodarin.  As a PTS tester since last year, it takes time to get to 50, then do your veteran ranks (which recently got an xp nerf for us).  Early leveling was shortened, while higher levels was increased.  Yea I can blow through the first two zones (beyond the starter islands) easy quick, but it does slow down, and at veteran ranks it slows down a lot.  Now, you can say it's "grindy", which is another opinion (just like mine on the time it takes), but ultimately you are right that some people will race to the top and cry foul.  I do not see this as a fault of the game, but rather a fault in the mentality of any player who blows through content and demands more.  If you cannot appreciate what was given to you while you leveled, then who in their right mind would expect you to be happy with what they provide at endgame? (Not aimed at anyone in particular, mind you).  I have enjoyed the game for many months, and still find new things to do.  I have done this all while avoiding reading any of the content (to make it more a treat come launch), avoiding crafting outside of focus testing, rarely using a mount to travel (so I can explore the land), and limiting group dungeons to only focus testing.

    I have seen the claims many times over that this or that mmo has not lasting appeal.  This will always be true for any game with certain people.  The beauty is, there are plenty of games out there.  If this is not for you, then move on.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • Aliantha_AngelAliantha_Angel Member UncommonPosts: 197

     

    You forgot the daisy wheel printer!  I had one at least lol.

    -Rig

    I couldn't afford a printer too at the time!  I remember my first "hard drive" it was 10 megabytes and as big as a tower case.

    Oh and I had to walk to school without shoes through the snow, uphill... both ways!

  • kieranbunnykieranbunny Member Posts: 4

    Very Well said ==(:*D

     

    ==(:*D

  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Member RarePosts: 1,234
    The bugs don't have anything to do with poor animations, quests, bad combat, ugly armor, terrible class choices, and did I mention animations? When they are talking, I feel like you could cut the npc head off and use it for Pac Man. Gobble gobble gobble eat up those dots Pac man head npc. When I'm testing, I can't even take it seriously, I just break out in laughter because of how atrocious everything about the game is except for the wonderful music.
  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Member UncommonPosts: 599
    Originally posted by Gilllean

    It's not Zenimax fault is our society fault . It's not their fault that we have so many stupid people who are "DUMB " just DUMB right now gamers are DUMBER than ever this is a fact !!!! It's not their fault !!!

    I'm not sure. They still need a market to sell to. I think those smarter people aren't playing video-games, let alone MMO's.

  • Aliantha_AngelAliantha_Angel Member UncommonPosts: 197
    Originally posted by kieranbunny

    Very Well said ==(:*D

     

    thank you, your bunniness.

     

    Is it March 30 yet???

     

    Bugs and all, I'm ready!

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 Member UncommonPosts: 327

    It's way less buggy than WAR was... and I loved the hell outta that game. 

     

    That said I"m macroing /reloadui to my b key. It fixes about 75% of the bugs you find. 

     

    It's not perfect, but it's fun, which is all a game needs to be. 

  • SuperNickSuperNick Member UncommonPosts: 460

    I wouldn't be surprised if they have well over 1-2 million pre-purchases already.

    That's basically their development costs back already, if not money in theirs pockets too.

    I don't think they need to hand out free demos for people.

    Stress test actually did mean stress test. They purposely ran reduced shards to overload the servers to see what they could take. This resulted in a lot of the broken stuff you seen because the databases couldn't handle the overloading.

    The developers didn't just decide to leave hundreds of bugs in the game, it was the method in which they purposely overloaded the servers that caused that stuff.

  • Aliantha_AngelAliantha_Angel Member UncommonPosts: 197
    Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87

    It's way less buggy than WAR was... and I loved the hell outta that game. 

     

    That said I"m macroing /reloadui to my b key. It fixes about 75% of the bugs you find. 

     

    It's not perfect, but it's fun, which is all a game needs to be. 

    Don't use /reloadui, use the mail key <'> that will fix it faster and not require your graphics to reload.

    The mail key <'> also fixes the broken <ESC> key, just hit mail and then escape works again.

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Originally posted by vmoped
     

    I don't agree with your assessment rodarin.  As a PTS tester since last year, it takes time to get to 50, then do your veteran ranks (which recently got an xp nerf for us).  Early leveling was shortened, while higher levels was increased.  Yea I can blow through the first two zones (beyond the starter islands) easy quick, but it does slow down, and at veteran ranks it slows down a lot.  Now, you can say it's "grindy", which is another opinion (just like mine on the time it takes), but ultimately you are right that some people will race to the top and cry foul.  I do not see this as a fault of the game, but rather a fault in the mentality of any player who blows through content and demands more.  If you cannot appreciate what was given to you while you leveled, then who in their right mind would expect you to be happy with what they provide at endgame? (Not aimed at anyone in particular, mind you).  I have enjoyed the game for many months, and still find new things to do.  I have done this all while avoiding reading any of the content (to make it more a treat come launch), avoiding crafting outside of focus testing, rarely using a mount to travel (so I can explore the land), and limiting group dungeons to only focus testing.

    I have seen the claims many times over that this or that mmo has not lasting appeal.  This will always be true for any game with certain people.  The beauty is, there are plenty of games out there.  If this is not for you, then move on.

    Cheers!

    Well some people do do it that way. 

     

    I just look at Vanguard, as dated and broken a game thee is (while it lasts) and there is so much to do int hat game at all levels it takes forever to do even a small portion of it.

     

    I have been playing VG for awhile and was hoping ESo would be similar to it. taking the ES style and expanding it to an MMO. But they didnt do that. At least in my opinion. They took portions of it, and portins of generic MMOs and mashed them together witht he ES interface and called it good.

     

    Game could have and probably should have been quite a bit more sandbox. Not totally sandbox but a mix. You go out you do whatever you gain levels and skill points and put them where you want to. They even changed the ES skill system. Trying to conform to an MMO 'tree' type. Which is sort of OK I guess but they should have had a few more options.

     

    Basically once you get above level 20 and morph a few skills yu start using one ranged and one close up skill and maybe a heal if you need it. So even with only 5 slots you dont use 5 skills. Not because you couldnt but because you really dont  have to.

     

    This might be getting a bit off topic but basically some skills are completely useless, and not nearly as good as other options so they can be totally ignored. Templer for example. The offensive skills there are so bad you only need one and the other two are of no use. Why have a javelin attack and a ranged fire attack? Pick one or the other and ignore the one you dont pick. 

     

    The grind or time sink in this game is going to be PvP first and then trying to max out skill points, and maybe vet points depending on what those eventually give for perks. The problem is there are too many caps in the game, soft caps and hard caps, so people are going to find themselves capped and not able to progress even if they are technically still able to gain points. That is something a lot of people arent talking about but it will be an issue unless they raise or eliminate those caps.

     

    But unless your progression can be seen and 'felt' it stops being of use and people wont bother with it even if there is still more to do.

  • Total_HavokTotal_Havok Member UncommonPosts: 21
    I have to agree with OP on this one...I have never been involved with a beta where I had to re-log 17 TIMES (not an exaggeration) in order to get an instance with a non-glitched boss mob (yes, I am looking at you Abomination of Hate) so I could finish 1 freaking quest line.
  • Aliantha_AngelAliantha_Angel Member UncommonPosts: 197
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    I wouldn't be surprised if they have well over 1-2 million pre-purchases already.

    That's basically their development costs back already, if not money in theirs pockets too.

    I don't think they need to hand out free demos for people.

    Stress test actually did mean stress test. They purposely ran reduced shards to overload the servers to see what they could take. This resulted in a lot of the broken stuff you seen because the databases couldn't handle the overloading.

    The developers didn't just decide to leave hundreds of bugs in the game, it was the method in which they purposely overloaded the servers that caused that stuff.

    I completely understand and agree with you.  My point was that whether they intended it or not, that kind of beta weekend was being used by many of the beta testers as a reason to buy or not buy the game.  Zenimax's intent doesn't change that fact and I just think it was a bad idea this close to launch.  The repercussions are being felt on every chat board.  Sure there are people like us who understand and support it, but lost business is lost business and from a strictly business standpoint it wasn't (in my humble opinion) a good idea.

    If it were me, and again I'm no expert and I wanted to really stress test the servers and wanted to make that clear I would have used a current, non-buggy version and closed off all areas except maybe starter islands and forced as many people into them as possible for however many hours seemed like a good idea.  Then it would have been clear to most people that it really was a stress test and not a free preview of lots of bugs.

    This thread wasn't about me not liking the game or changing my opinion, business is just kinda my thing and to me it was a bad idea at this time to showcase what they did.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • SuperNickSuperNick Member UncommonPosts: 460
    Originally posted by alicorn
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    I wouldn't be surprised if they have well over 1-2 million pre-purchases already.

    That's basically their development costs back already, if not money in theirs pockets too.

    I don't think they need to hand out free demos for people.

    Stress test actually did mean stress test. They purposely ran reduced shards to overload the servers to see what they could take. This resulted in a lot of the broken stuff you seen because the databases couldn't handle the overloading.

    The developers didn't just decide to leave hundreds of bugs in the game, it was the method in which they purposely overloaded the servers that caused that stuff.

    I completely understand and agree with you.  My point was that whether they intended it or not, that kind of beta weekend was being used by many of the beta testers as a reason to buy or not buy the game.  Zenimax's intent doesn't change that fact and I just think it was a bad idea this close to launch.  The repercussions are being felt on every chat board.  Sure there are people like us who understand and support it, but lost business is lost business and from a strictly business standpoint it wasn't (in my humble opinion) a good idea.

    If it were me, and again I'm no expert and I wanted to really stress test the servers and wanted to make that clear I would have used a current, non-buggy version and closed off all areas except maybe starter islands and forced as many people into them as possible for however many hours seemed like a good idea.  Then it would have been clear to most people that it really was a stress test and not a free preview of lots of bugs.

    This thread wasn't about me not liking the game or changing my opinion, business is just kinda my thing and to me it was a bad idea at this time to showcase what they did.

    Just my 2 cents.

    It's arrogance on Zenimax's part, one would assume anyway. They seem to believe the people who will buy and play their game based on a single weekend is very small. I could be wrong in assuming here, just like they could be wrong in assuming that number is small.

    I played in a ton of weekends, I think going back to January or so. None really had that many issues bar a few broken quests.. I suppose they figure anyone who was buying played prior to this past weekend or didn't play at all. I know tons of people who purposely avoid betas as to avoid misjudgement in the first place for example.

    I suppose it comes down to the way Bethesda/Zenimax handle product management. If the product is solid and delivers great results, it should speak for itself and not need mass marketing to bolster it.. which is why both companies often do very little in the way of marketing.

  • WolfsheadWolfshead Member UncommonPosts: 224

    Honest OP i was in last beta test 14 - 16 and many quest bug have been fix and if new come i just report but the biggest problem all mmorpg beta test that most people are not as you really there to beta test the are just there to play free game and most wont even come back play when go live even if game was bug free or not and most "hardcore" mmorpg player should know that beta is bug and live version is less bug free and why should company show the live version if the did the dont need to have beta right.

    Also you say the char got stuck in carft and talk to NPC well if press ESC you got out of that stuck this weekend so yeah Zenimax have fix bugs and tell me that have not is lie this weekend beta was more playable that other weekend beta have been.

  • StilerStiler Member Posts: 599

    That's what I didn't get about this last beta (which is the final one most likely).

     

    They have to have known that most people were going to be playing it as a "demo" and to base their opinion on buying it or not by what they played. So it'd have made sense to have it be the most up to date/bug free version of the game client.

     

    To have it be an outdated and very buggy version with quests failing/dropping and bugs it's going to lose them customers.

     

     

  • AroukosAroukos Member Posts: 571
    Originally posted by Ghabbo
    Originally posted by alicorn

    The truth is that MOST beta testers are NOT beta testers.  

     

    This ^

    Beta testing is the new trial. I love the game and will be playing it as soon as the servers are up, but your post is right on.

     

    Agree too.

    Beta testing, at least for me, is a kind of trial for a game. Maybe not the best but the only one.

    So, after my experience with the ESO beta, i decided to stay away from buying it, at least for some time. If there is a future trial i ll try it again, but with the current state of the game, considering there is also a monthly fee, i ll just pass.

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,467
    Originally posted by Pyatra
    Several threads on this site actually linked patch notes that were newer than this last beta, and that was 2 weeks ago.  You seemed unsure about that point so just wanted to let you know they were already making huge fixes with quests to that build even before beta this weekend.

    source

  • ShamorauShamorau Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Pyatra
    Several threads on this site actually linked patch notes that were newer than this last beta, and that was 2 weeks ago.  You seemed unsure about that point so just wanted to let you know they were already making huge fixes with quests to that build even before beta this weekend.

    source

    there are a few guys claiming that the pts is on version .181 and its the newer version of the game. my version that i currently have is from last weekend which is eso.live.1.0.0.941004  ( i got this info from the login screen, bottom left corner). I can only go by whats put in front of me. i have no access to the pts and i at the moment i doubt there are any that do. as they argue the point about better versions i just dont see it. While i do want this game to succeed and i will be playing it. i just think that people should be as informed as possible. I havent heard anything from Zen about last weekend, but i am sure that they will at least put out something before early access begins. At least marketing wise to boost sales. but at the moment last weekend was not a good weekend for them.

  • epichokieepichokie Member Posts: 14
    Thank you Zen for putting out a buggy last beta to keep all the dumb asses who wont buy or play the game. Not bc the game isn't fun but bc there are bugs. MMORPG never released with bugs. Thank you for allowing me to play without their trolling and crying for a few months. Come on April!!
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,467
    Originally posted by Shamorau
    Originally posted by mbrodie
    Originally posted by Pyatra
    Several threads on this site actually linked patch notes that were newer than this last beta, and that was 2 weeks ago.  You seemed unsure about that point so just wanted to let you know they were already making huge fixes with quests to that build even before beta this weekend.

    source

    there are a few guys claiming that the pts is on version .181 and its the newer version of the game. my version that i currently have is from last weekend which is eso.live.1.0.0.941004  ( i got this info from the login screen, bottom left corner). I can only go by whats put in front of me. i have no access to the pts and i at the moment i doubt there are any that do. as they argue the point about better versions i just dont see it. While i do want this game to succeed and i will be playing it. i just think that people should be as informed as possible. I havent heard anything from Zen about last weekend, but i am sure that they will at least put out something before early access begins. At least marketing wise to boost sales. but at the moment last weekend was not a good weekend for them.

    i know, the client updated itself with some kind minor patch.. yesterday the version was 1.0.0.89xx it must have been very minor i didnt even notice a download... but thats why i'm asking for my source, because all the claims that the PTS is versions ahead are just that "unsubstanciated claims" that goes against all the information our clients / client files acutally provide to us.

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270

    I don't think they are worried, the game will sell millions by default, simply for being 'Elder Scrolls'.

    If the game is still a buggy mess during the first month, that's when they will see a huge drop off.

  • rawfoxrawfox Member UncommonPosts: 778

    Im not onto the ESO train this time.

    That is, because im under the impression that i saw all that already with the release of "that other game".

    It was in a comparable state, had the same engine (what i dont like, tbh) ruffly the same tech (max 200 players in one instance. 300 ?) the same amount of bugs, the same promises, the same the same the same ...

    Also, it was fun for some months until they stamped server after server after server.

     

    I got excellently fooled by marketing.

     

    Now that i play just another "coming soon™" game, i feel better placed there.

    Have fun and enjoy your time in ESO, guys ^^

     

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,641
    Originally posted by Aroukos
    Originally posted by Ghabbo
    Originally posted by alicorn

    The truth is that MOST beta testers are NOT beta testers.  

     

    This ^

    Beta testing is the new trial. I love the game and will be playing it as soon as the servers are up, but your post is right on.

     

    Agree too.

    Beta testing, at least for me, is a kind of trial for a game. Maybe not the best but the only one.

    So, after my experience with the ESO beta, i decided to stay away from buying it, at least for some time. If there is a future trial i ll try it again, but with the current state of the game, considering there is also a monthly fee, i ll just pass.

    Beta weekends are early entry rewards.  These beta weekends were advertised as sneak peeks of the game as a reward for pre-ordering the game.  Closed betas and to a small extent, fully open betas are where real testing are expected.

    image
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,299
    Originally posted by Rigamortis
    Originally posted by alicorn
    Originally posted by Allacore69

     


    Originally posted by alicorn

    September 1997 was the last day of the original beta test. The beta ended with a bang, as players were treated to an "end of the world" scenario with Shadowlords, demons, and other evil creatures slaughtering every character in sight. Ultima Online opened its doors to the public.[36] In 1998, the game expanded, and the number of users reached over 100,000 worldwide. In 1999, the game expanded to Japan in January, to Europe in May, and to South Korea in July. Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online So only 2 expansions were tested publicaly for beta. One closed(1997) and one open(2009) The official game never had "outside" beta testing or "public" testing. I'm not calling you out. Just clairify first so people don't look it up, like I did, and lose credibility. Now I do agree with your post op. I have yet to see any "patch notes" for a build we have not tested yet. I was getting pissed yesterday because the quests were bugged to death and for some reason my character would swing to death and the enemy would still be standing there looking at me like, "duh". lol
    You aren't calling me out, I was in the beta test.  I actually have a still active account that was created the day UO launched and I had been part of the last beta in 1997 (I'm an old fart - good thing this isn't Logan's Run!) so it's fine if people look it up.  Having been beta testing that long doesn't make me special, I only use it as a reference that I have experienced betas going back a very long way when they were quite different than now.

     

    Yeah this weekend was tough because I actuallye xpected to see some of the naggy bugs like and getting locked in crafting fixed and then to be falling through the world and have previously fine quests bugged was annoying.  I have a plan for launch though in case these issues still persist so as long as I can connect and stay online I am set to be happy :-)


     


    DANG dude. Thats a long time yo'. I think I started my first beta 5 years ago lol.

    Although in 1997 I was 12 lol.

    In 1997 I was 31... told you I was old!  My first computer was in 1983, a TRS-80 Model 4 with 16k (yes 16k) memory and a cassette drive.  Oh, and it cost like $1500.  The dual 512k floppies I added later cost another $800.

    You forgot the daisy wheel printer!  I had one at least lol.

    -Rig

    16k of memory and dual floppies; luxury. You probably had DOS as well rather than CPM.

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