You're probably paying more than $100 for an internet/TV bundle, yet do you feel obligated to watch tv or be online all the time because you payed for it? probably not
Do not shy away from it because it is pay to play. While you simply may not want to pay the money, do not judge the game based on it. You might be missing out. To say a game disappointed you because they are not following the f2p trend is shortsighted. Typically, you get more with a sub model than now.
The most successful MMO in history, by concurrent player standards, is pay to play (WoW). Guildwars is buy to play, play for free, which currently is probably the second most successful in terms of player concurrency. Both models work.
I think the issue is with you, my friend. If the cable tv that I pay for is quality, I'll pay for it(and I do). If a netflix subscription is worth it, you'll pay for it. If Wildstar is worth it, you'll pay for it.
Now, while both models can be succesful, there are certain things you get with a traditional pay to play model that a free to play simply cannot compete with. Free to play games, such as neverwinter and GW2, have been doing well and pumping out content pretty fast. The quality of that content is up to debate.
I personally think the content GW2 pumps out is fluffy and bland. A new zone to zerg in, a few more achievements. Nothing special. Funnel us into one zone, grind out achievements and replay the same stuff over and over until we do so. Some new weapon skins, new ways to acquire resources, and thats about it. Yet, they put new stuff out like that every few weeks.
Vs a game like WoW, where they now put new content patches out every 3-4 months with a full blown expansion every 2 years...and its quality. QA tested, and substantial. Per content patch you might get a new zone with new daillies, a new raid, maybe a new dungeon, etc. With the traditional expansion, you get an entire new continent with 5 new zones, new factions and dallies, tons more dungeons, more raids, new systems and QOL systems(such as garrisons),new monsters, new classes or races.
In my opinion, you just get more bang for your buck with a subscription model.
BTW, I haven't played WoW in 3+ years. Ive been playing GW2 for the last 1.5 years, up until yesterday of course
Originally posted by Dauntis The sub is about the same amount as a movie or maybe going to two movies depending on where you live. So you aren't going to play the game like 4-5 hours a month? It is a pretty inexpensive form of entertainment.
MMO's probably aren't the genre you should be looking into if you can only put 4-5 hours a month into it.
Considering everything I spend my money on each month, a monthly sub is practically nothing. The problem I have with the sub is that it feels like I'm paying for nothing. The games that have sub fee do not deliver nearly as much content as the sub fee would suggest.
Take a look at WoW for example (all sub fee games does the same thing). Consider the price of an expansion, and what you get for that money. Then consider the amount of money you put into the sub fee between the expansions, and how much you get content for that money in the form of content patches. You quickly realize that you are paying a lot more for the sub but get a lot less than you get on the initial launch of the xpac.
At the end of the day I'm not sure if I care. At least it makes me leave the game I'm paying the monthly fee immediately when it becomes boring and dull, when there's no sub I might keep wasting time on some crap as if it would get any better down the road
I won't be playing this game but in all honesty their business model is at least better than ESO's. With Wildstar you can technically purchase game time with in-game money, with ESO it's real cash and that's it. Also Wildstar isn't doing any of that shady business crap locking races behind CE purchases and so forth. And now that ESO has confirmed launching with a cash shop that has a horse in it, which is a big deal to get in game, makes Wildstar's model look even better.
I will not buy or play this game as long as there is a subscription fee. Period.
Look at every AAA MMO that has released since WoW. One thing most or all have in common is that they launched as subscription based games and are now F2P with Cash Shops. The closer you get to 2014, the lower the average time post launch before the game had to convert to F2P.
Subscriptions are a short term cash grab before an MMO converts to F2P. The sad thing, though, is that the subscription model prevents many players from buying the game at launch and it also drives players away who buy and play the game, but find they just can't justify the subscription price. By the time the game converts to F2P, they've lost a large portion of the game's potential F2P audience because of the alienation effect of the previous subscription period and the loss of hype.
Many of these MMOs make much more money during their first year of F2P than they made from subscription fees for the year prior to the conversion. Imagine how much more money they could have made if they had hooked a much larger launch hype playerbase and not suffered the ire producing defections that occurred while the game was under the sub fee!
For studios/publishers that insist on a sub fee, I think a hybrid model with an optional sub fee, with benefits, along side a F2P cash Shop model make infinitely more sense.
CREDD is not PLEX. In Eve Online, veteran players can establish a revenue stream many magnitudes greater than a player with one month of play under their belt. PLEX is a good mechanism for rewarding loyalty. Most who play Eve by purchasing PLEX with in game currency are established players who can afford the transaction with out having to spend most of their time grinding to afford the PLEX. The bigger your role in the economy, the easier it is to "play for free".
We don't know what the exchange rate is likely to be for CREDD, but we can look to GW2 for some guidance. The amount of grind required to earn enough gold to buy $20 worth of GW2 Gems, (their cash shop currency which can be purchased and traded in a way similar to CREDD) is very significant. GW2 Players that pay cash for Gems do so for more than selling gems for in game gold. They also have an extensive cash shop to fuel the purchase of gems. The Gem to Gold exchange rate is determined entirely by Supply vs. Demand, $$$ vs. Gold. The average time spent grinding for in game currency per $dollar value of CREDD may be much higher than the ratio of grind per $dollar value of Gems in GW2 due to the singular nature of CREDD as a gold buying mechanism.
Grinding in game currency to buy in game items can be demoralizing enough in any MMO, but if the item(s) you can then purchase are satisfying enough to warrant the grind, players remain happy. Wildstar is asking players who don't want a subscription fee to grind to pay for a non-cash alternative for game time. Essentially, grinding for no benefit other than earning another 30 days to grind for the next 30 days. I'm pretty sure that's an MMO equivalent to indentured servitude!
So, you can either spend $60 to buy the right to rent Wildstar access for $30 a month, or you can pay $60 for the right to become a currency grinding indentured servant to the game.
It can't really be any other way with this business model. If it were easy to earn the currency to buy CREDD, few would pay a sub fee. Most who pay the monthly rent on the game via CREDD will have to grind for it, rather than just enjoying the game. The people most likely to actually benefit from CREDD are Gold Farmers, Exploiters and those who accumulate inordinate wealth by playing/manipulating the in game market.
Sub fees are dead as a viable business model for MMOs launching in the current era. WoW established itself in a different time and managed to grab a massive percentage of the MMO subscription dollars spent over the last ten years. A WoW sub fee rents you access to 10 years worth of content, established, long lived guilds and a game you know won't fail three months later. No new MMO could ever hope to offer the same value for the subscription dollar. A number of decent MMOs since WoW that might have achieved a solid level of success if they had launched with a F2P or B2P model have withered on the vine due to launching with a failed business model.
BTW, think about the people who are supposed to buy CREDD for $cash to support those you want to buy play time with in game currency. They are being asked to pay $20 on top of the $15 sub fee. In any month were a player buys CREDD for $Cash, they will be laying out at least $35 for a game they have to rent. The only sucker bigger than someone paying $15/month to rent access to the game, or someone willing to grind their asses off to earn a month of play, will be those willing to spend an extra $20+ on a game they have already payed $15 to rent.
I predict Wildstar will be F2P, or on life support, with in a year after launch and their first year revenue will pale vs. GW2's first year revenue under the B2P model. Launching with the sub model will mean this game will never achieve it's highest possible potential for success and may even fail to earn back it's full production costs.
The drag of the sub model on a new MMO has become greater and greater with each passing year since the launch of WoW. Wildstar and ESO will both squander what ever chance they had at success by embracing a business model that is the kiss of death in the current era of MMO gaming.
Sub models aren't bad. Bad games are bad. I'm glad to see publishers coming back to the sub model and stop with the wretched nickel and diming of cash shops. I think it's good that there are games that are F2P as that will offer something for those that prefer it. But there's nothing wrong with supplying a good product for paying customers to enjoy without the imbalances that follow the F2P/P2W games.
Perhaps we should create a betting pool to see how long Wildstar runs before it goes the way of games like Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa. I still don't trust NCSoft.
How about Wildstar doing exactly what TESO is doing? Oh, you don't know? Okay...
Step #1) Buy the box ($60 regular or the $80/$100 CE versions*)
Step #2) $15 a month subscription
Step #3) Day-1 cash shop with mount for sale for $20.
*Note: Expensive "Collector's Editions" have exclusive race unobtainable in-game as well as mount.
I like that Wildstar isn't doing a cash shop. I find is great that they can have those with expendable incomes and little time to play the game being able to essentially pay for other gamer's subscription while the other game is farming gold for them (this is what equates to a shutdown of gold farmers...the players are going to obsessively farm gold to pay for their hobby/habit, while the "gold buyers" will be going directly through CREDD and normal channels that are legitly going to get what hey need.
I will be playing it just because its sub model. I hate P2W gaming model because the hard core players always always ALWAYS get the short end of the stick when it comes to P2W. I think this game will do very well stealing players from all the other half done mmos that are out now.
Do you know how broken cash shops usually are in game???
And the problem isn't with the p2p model, the problem lies within people that don't find value for what they pay for.
.50cents per day isn't much...think about that!
There is nothing broken about the GW2 B2P cash shop model. Most AAA MMOs that have converted to F2P over the last decade have also had mostly fair/benevolent cash shops. Don't confuse a viable F2P or B2P business model for the Western MMO Market with the broken cash shop models of most F2P MMOs of Eastern Origin.
BTW, before Arenanet totally turned me off to GW2 with their "Adventure by Checklist" Living Story content strategy, I payed well more than $15/month via their cash shop. I didn't need anything I purchased to play, I bought things I wanted and, for the most part, felt that the purchases were worth my $Cash. I also had months where I bought nothing and was glad I didn't have to worry about a sub fee. As someone who is currently disillusioned with the game, I can still log in every couple weeks just to see if the latest round of temporary content is better than the crap they shoveled forth in the last cycle.
Someday ANet might get their act back together and steer GW2 back towards it's once promising course. I can re-sample their efforts on a regular basis in hopes that day will come sooner, rather than later. I can't do that with a sub based game. Well, not until they inevitably turn F2P, but by that point I usually feel so disconnected from the game and my characters that it's hard to get back on board.
$15/month sub fees, with a $60+ box price, is a DOA business model for MMOs in the current environment. I really think that a Hybrid Model can work, some MMOs that have been forced to convert do offer optional subscriptions with special benefits, which works for many of their long term players who still play on a regular basis. Nothing sadder, IMO, than seeing publishers who just continue to cling to the dying/dead model when there are many other options that might make much, much more sense for their product.
Look at World of Tanks. F2P. Benevolent Cash Shop. However, you can buy by Premium Account status in chunks as small as 24 hours and as long as a year. The bigger the chunk, the less the cost per day. The benefit? +50% XP and +50% currency while under Premium status. A similar business model could work for a AAA MMO. Paired with a game people decide is worth playing, this business model rakes in the cash and also rakes in new players, while maintaining high retention rates. When someone decides they need a break, no harm, no foul. No ongoing sub fee and no barrier to hopping back in when ever the mood strikes. Even though buying Premium for a Day or a Weekend isn't very economical, people who play off and on do shell out the bucks for the added benefit.
At this point, I don't only view the Box+Sub Model as repugnant, but as a clear sign that the developer/publisher is just plain clueless about the genre they develop for, which may mean the game isn't worth buying in the first place. It's the equivalent of putting a dunce cap on their heads before going out to sell their game on an already jaded and skeptical audience.
Basically the game will be pay per month but you get an option to "Play to pay" by exchanging your in game gold for game time, which doesnt really matter to most of us who spend more time on real life.
I am very disappointed by this because the trend of online games are either one time purchase or free to play.
I personally dislike pay per month model because it pushes me to play the game more than I wanted to b/c I paid for it.
Very often I play a game for some time and then go for a break for couple weeks and then come back and play again.
With the pay per month model, I will be bound to play 1 game because I paid for it and wont be able to try other new games. I wont be able to just come back and try out new stuff for couple days or just check out my stuff without paying the monthly fee first.
It is not about money because I have spent over hundred of dollars on LOL just for buying the skins.
It is about my sub-consciousness that I feel uncomfortable with the pay per month model.
Regardless how great WS will be, the business model of it just pushes me away so I would say NO to this game.
Comments?
Can't stand free to play business models 90% of the time, I much prefer subs as a way of preventing pay 2 win and keeping out the riff raff. And for the record, typically F2P=P2W=more expensive than a sub; I'd rather pay a standard fee for a level playing field, provided the game isn't trash.
I believe we are confusing 2 different problems here.
1) You don't like paying for it because it'll force you to play. Do you pay for Amazon Prime? Do you make EVERY purchase through them never going to the store? Do you pay for cable and watch it 24/7? Do you buy a cell phone and talk constantly on it? $15 bucks is a popcorn and movie. It's a meal at a restaurant. Or it's something where you could have 720 HRS worth of gameplay if you want to dedicate it like that.
2) Purchase through ingame means. Like Eve. Plex. I give you my gold, you give me your 30 days game time. I can't farm constantly in Eve and someone does. I sell them my time for their cash. Unfair? Why? I'm not saying that it won't give gold farmers something to do, but it DOES equalize some of the economy and so long as they take measures to prevent gold sellers then it is a method that SHOULD be used. Skim some off the top for inflation and you're good.
I'm no economist but I can tell you the quality of F2P games are garbage. You get what you pay for. I've been playing Marvel Heroes and listening to people whine about unlocking things. Mind you all the characters can be unlocked with a little bit of elbow grease. But the way people complain you'd think you could never unlock anything in the game. That game does it almost perfectly and people still complain. I think of the $15 fee anymore like a club door fee. It keeps some riff-raff out (esp. gold sellers because of box + sub) and keeps me happy.
Jesus, what happened to the mmo community... I remember back with eq and daoc all mmorpgs had a monthly sub. wow was no different, and everyone paid these fees, because they pay the tech support people, the gms , and the people that stop hackers. you're paying for quality and support. I'm so happy this game has a subscription, it keeps all these sad I want everything free people out of this game... these are no doubt the same people that whine about gear descrepencies based on time played and just want everyone everything equal. its a RPG, you pay for it and your character earns what your time in gives him. this thread is retarded. you want a f2p game, there's always pong.
Originally posted by whiskeyhealz Jesus, what happened to the mmo community... I remember back with eq and daoc all mmorpgs had a monthly sub. wow was no different, and everyone paid these fees, because they pay the tech support people, the gms , and the people that stop hackers. you're paying for quality and support. I'm so happy this game has a subscription, it keeps all these sad I want everything free people out of this game... these are no doubt the same people that whine about gear descrepencies based on time played and just want everyone everything equal. its a RPG, you pay for it and your character earns what your time in gives him. this thread is retarded. you want a f2p game, there's always pong.
I agree with you.. but WildStar is as far away from being a RPG as I am from a Nobel prize in physics.
In other words this is just a precursor for an ingame/F2P shop ?
The guy who has a subscription buys "C.R.E.D.D" online (where ? in an ingame shop ?) and sells it for gold so he can "achieve" something.
Who decides what is the exchange rate for CREDD and how is it influenced ?
This all sounds quiete fishy....either its a sub based game or not. But this seems something else.
More like taking EVE's feature, where you can purchase sub time with in-game credits if you are somehow wealthy enough in game. I don't see what the issue is.
As an example they write about a sub based player who has not time to get gold and to achieve a mount.
So he buys C.R.E.D.D online (from an CX Ingame Shop offered by an anonymous vendor) and sells it to other players for gold. These players can buy C.R.E.D.D with gold because they cant afford a monthly subscription for the game and can play for free with C.R.E.D.D.
With this Ingame Shop players can buy GOLD for money and for GOLD free to play time.
In other words it sounds it is a system which supports Free To Play.
This is not a true and pure sub based game like some thought maybe and it is a great invite to encourage gold farmer and botter.
Yes because gold farmer will buy sub and sell it gold, wasnt it other way around, this is exactly to prevent gold farmers and bots, if someone really wants gold, he buys sub and sells it to player = legit gold, without buying from gold farmer,
I don't get the point of this thread at all. So the OP is complaining that people can pay with in game currency for their monthly sub. So they are still paying a sub one way or the other. Whether it be RL cash or in game cash...it is still going to cost them.
And feeling obligated to play more because you pay? Seriously? 15/month is too steep. That is like 50cents a day! Most people spend more than that on their morning cup of coffee. Or a snack at work or school.
I am not going to be playing this game. But I do support Sub based MMOs. I wish more were purely sub based. Not this sub plus cash shop like certain other upcomming releases.
I'd say this is just another 'I want my game to be free to play.' And if it were F2P it would be a post about Cash shop costing too much. Pay the dam sub one way or the other and stop cryin about it. Or go play one of the other hundreds of poorly made F2P MMOs out there.
I don't get the point of this thread at all. So the OP is complaining that people can pay with in game currency for their monthly sub. So they are still paying a sub one way or the other. Whether it be RL cash or in game cash...it is still going to cost them. And feeling obligated to play more because you pay? Seriously? 15/month is too steep. That is like 50cents a day! Most people spend more than that on their morning cup of coffee. Or a snack at work or school. I am not going to be playing this game. But I do support Sub based MMOs. I wish more were purely sub based. Not this sub plus cash shop like certain other upcomming releases.I'd say this is just another 'I want my game to be free to play.' And if it were F2P it would be a post about Cash shop costing too much. Pay the dam sub one way or the other and stop cryin about it. Or go play one of the other hundreds of poorly made F2P MMOs out there.
In other words this is just a precursor for an ingame/F2P shop ?
The guy who has a subscription buys "C.R.E.D.D" online (where ? in an ingame shop ?) and sells it for gold so he can "achieve" something.
Who decides what is the exchange rate for CREDD and how is it influenced ?
This all sounds quiete fishy....either its a sub based game or not. But this seems something else.
More like taking EVE's feature, where you can purchase sub time with in-game credits if you are somehow wealthy enough in game. I don't see what the issue is.
As an example they write about a sub based player who has not time to get gold and to achieve a mount.
So he buys C.R.E.D.D online (from an CX Ingame Shop offered by an anonymous vendor) and sells it to other players for gold. These players can buy C.R.E.D.D with gold because they cant afford a monthly subscription for the game and can play for free with C.R.E.D.D.
With this Ingame Shop players can buy GOLD for money and for GOLD free to play time.
In other words it sounds it is a system which supports Free To Play.
This is not a true and pure sub based game like some thought maybe and it is a great invite to encourage gold farmer and botter.
Yes because gold farmer will buy sub and sell it gold, wasnt it other way around, this is exactly to prevent gold farmers and bots, if someone really wants gold, he buys sub and sells it to player = legit gold, without buying from gold farmer,
1+1 is too hard for some
It depends on the price from gold farmers, if they are cheap people will buy for F2P.
Comments
Go play GW2 then. Pay once and play as much or as little as you like.
You're probably paying more than $100 for an internet/TV bundle, yet do you feel obligated to watch tv or be online all the time because you payed for it? probably not
your problem is in your head.
Do not shy away from it because it is pay to play. While you simply may not want to pay the money, do not judge the game based on it. You might be missing out. To say a game disappointed you because they are not following the f2p trend is shortsighted. Typically, you get more with a sub model than now.
The most successful MMO in history, by concurrent player standards, is pay to play (WoW). Guildwars is buy to play, play for free, which currently is probably the second most successful in terms of player concurrency. Both models work.
I think the issue is with you, my friend. If the cable tv that I pay for is quality, I'll pay for it(and I do). If a netflix subscription is worth it, you'll pay for it. If Wildstar is worth it, you'll pay for it.
Now, while both models can be succesful, there are certain things you get with a traditional pay to play model that a free to play simply cannot compete with. Free to play games, such as neverwinter and GW2, have been doing well and pumping out content pretty fast. The quality of that content is up to debate.
I personally think the content GW2 pumps out is fluffy and bland. A new zone to zerg in, a few more achievements. Nothing special. Funnel us into one zone, grind out achievements and replay the same stuff over and over until we do so. Some new weapon skins, new ways to acquire resources, and thats about it. Yet, they put new stuff out like that every few weeks.
Vs a game like WoW, where they now put new content patches out every 3-4 months with a full blown expansion every 2 years...and its quality. QA tested, and substantial. Per content patch you might get a new zone with new daillies, a new raid, maybe a new dungeon, etc. With the traditional expansion, you get an entire new continent with 5 new zones, new factions and dallies, tons more dungeons, more raids, new systems and QOL systems(such as garrisons),new monsters, new classes or races.
In my opinion, you just get more bang for your buck with a subscription model.
BTW, I haven't played WoW in 3+ years. Ive been playing GW2 for the last 1.5 years, up until yesterday of course
MMO's probably aren't the genre you should be looking into if you can only put 4-5 hours a month into it.
Considering everything I spend my money on each month, a monthly sub is practically nothing. The problem I have with the sub is that it feels like I'm paying for nothing. The games that have sub fee do not deliver nearly as much content as the sub fee would suggest.
Take a look at WoW for example (all sub fee games does the same thing). Consider the price of an expansion, and what you get for that money. Then consider the amount of money you put into the sub fee between the expansions, and how much you get content for that money in the form of content patches. You quickly realize that you are paying a lot more for the sub but get a lot less than you get on the initial launch of the xpac.
At the end of the day I'm not sure if I care. At least it makes me leave the game I'm paying the monthly fee immediately when it becomes boring and dull, when there's no sub I might keep wasting time on some crap as if it would get any better down the road
The business model is ok, many people would pay much more per month if a game has certain features.
Problem is not the $15 per month, but that no game in the last 10 years has had the quality to carry that business model.
Wildstar and ESO won't be an exception, but follow this path.
Both games should have taken a different approach and come at 6,99 per month.
The people who got all out on the cash shops to get an advantage over those who don't is what ills this industry.
I'm happy that this sub model will ward away such people.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
I will not buy or play this game as long as there is a subscription fee. Period.
Look at every AAA MMO that has released since WoW. One thing most or all have in common is that they launched as subscription based games and are now F2P with Cash Shops. The closer you get to 2014, the lower the average time post launch before the game had to convert to F2P.
Subscriptions are a short term cash grab before an MMO converts to F2P. The sad thing, though, is that the subscription model prevents many players from buying the game at launch and it also drives players away who buy and play the game, but find they just can't justify the subscription price. By the time the game converts to F2P, they've lost a large portion of the game's potential F2P audience because of the alienation effect of the previous subscription period and the loss of hype.
Many of these MMOs make much more money during their first year of F2P than they made from subscription fees for the year prior to the conversion. Imagine how much more money they could have made if they had hooked a much larger launch hype playerbase and not suffered the ire producing defections that occurred while the game was under the sub fee!
For studios/publishers that insist on a sub fee, I think a hybrid model with an optional sub fee, with benefits, along side a F2P cash Shop model make infinitely more sense.
CREDD is not PLEX. In Eve Online, veteran players can establish a revenue stream many magnitudes greater than a player with one month of play under their belt. PLEX is a good mechanism for rewarding loyalty. Most who play Eve by purchasing PLEX with in game currency are established players who can afford the transaction with out having to spend most of their time grinding to afford the PLEX. The bigger your role in the economy, the easier it is to "play for free".
We don't know what the exchange rate is likely to be for CREDD, but we can look to GW2 for some guidance. The amount of grind required to earn enough gold to buy $20 worth of GW2 Gems, (their cash shop currency which can be purchased and traded in a way similar to CREDD) is very significant. GW2 Players that pay cash for Gems do so for more than selling gems for in game gold. They also have an extensive cash shop to fuel the purchase of gems. The Gem to Gold exchange rate is determined entirely by Supply vs. Demand, $$$ vs. Gold. The average time spent grinding for in game currency per $dollar value of CREDD may be much higher than the ratio of grind per $dollar value of Gems in GW2 due to the singular nature of CREDD as a gold buying mechanism.
Grinding in game currency to buy in game items can be demoralizing enough in any MMO, but if the item(s) you can then purchase are satisfying enough to warrant the grind, players remain happy. Wildstar is asking players who don't want a subscription fee to grind to pay for a non-cash alternative for game time. Essentially, grinding for no benefit other than earning another 30 days to grind for the next 30 days. I'm pretty sure that's an MMO equivalent to indentured servitude!
So, you can either spend $60 to buy the right to rent Wildstar access for $30 a month, or you can pay $60 for the right to become a currency grinding indentured servant to the game.
It can't really be any other way with this business model. If it were easy to earn the currency to buy CREDD, few would pay a sub fee. Most who pay the monthly rent on the game via CREDD will have to grind for it, rather than just enjoying the game. The people most likely to actually benefit from CREDD are Gold Farmers, Exploiters and those who accumulate inordinate wealth by playing/manipulating the in game market.
Sub fees are dead as a viable business model for MMOs launching in the current era. WoW established itself in a different time and managed to grab a massive percentage of the MMO subscription dollars spent over the last ten years. A WoW sub fee rents you access to 10 years worth of content, established, long lived guilds and a game you know won't fail three months later. No new MMO could ever hope to offer the same value for the subscription dollar. A number of decent MMOs since WoW that might have achieved a solid level of success if they had launched with a F2P or B2P model have withered on the vine due to launching with a failed business model.
BTW, think about the people who are supposed to buy CREDD for $cash to support those you want to buy play time with in game currency. They are being asked to pay $20 on top of the $15 sub fee. In any month were a player buys CREDD for $Cash, they will be laying out at least $35 for a game they have to rent. The only sucker bigger than someone paying $15/month to rent access to the game, or someone willing to grind their asses off to earn a month of play, will be those willing to spend an extra $20+ on a game they have already payed $15 to rent.
I predict Wildstar will be F2P, or on life support, with in a year after launch and their first year revenue will pale vs. GW2's first year revenue under the B2P model. Launching with the sub model will mean this game will never achieve it's highest possible potential for success and may even fail to earn back it's full production costs.
The drag of the sub model on a new MMO has become greater and greater with each passing year since the launch of WoW. Wildstar and ESO will both squander what ever chance they had at success by embracing a business model that is the kiss of death in the current era of MMO gaming.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Do you know how broken cash shops usually are in game???
And the problem isn't with the p2p model, the problem lies within people that don't find value for what they pay for.
.50cents per day isn't much...think about that!
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)
How about Wildstar doing exactly what TESO is doing? Oh, you don't know? Okay...
Step #1) Buy the box ($60 regular or the $80/$100 CE versions*)
Step #2) $15 a month subscription
Step #3) Day-1 cash shop with mount for sale for $20.
*Note: Expensive "Collector's Editions" have exclusive race unobtainable in-game as well as mount.
I like that Wildstar isn't doing a cash shop. I find is great that they can have those with expendable incomes and little time to play the game being able to essentially pay for other gamer's subscription while the other game is farming gold for them (this is what equates to a shutdown of gold farmers...the players are going to obsessively farm gold to pay for their hobby/habit, while the "gold buyers" will be going directly through CREDD and normal channels that are legitly going to get what hey need.
There is nothing broken about the GW2 B2P cash shop model. Most AAA MMOs that have converted to F2P over the last decade have also had mostly fair/benevolent cash shops. Don't confuse a viable F2P or B2P business model for the Western MMO Market with the broken cash shop models of most F2P MMOs of Eastern Origin.
BTW, before Arenanet totally turned me off to GW2 with their "Adventure by Checklist" Living Story content strategy, I payed well more than $15/month via their cash shop. I didn't need anything I purchased to play, I bought things I wanted and, for the most part, felt that the purchases were worth my $Cash. I also had months where I bought nothing and was glad I didn't have to worry about a sub fee. As someone who is currently disillusioned with the game, I can still log in every couple weeks just to see if the latest round of temporary content is better than the crap they shoveled forth in the last cycle.
Someday ANet might get their act back together and steer GW2 back towards it's once promising course. I can re-sample their efforts on a regular basis in hopes that day will come sooner, rather than later. I can't do that with a sub based game. Well, not until they inevitably turn F2P, but by that point I usually feel so disconnected from the game and my characters that it's hard to get back on board.
$15/month sub fees, with a $60+ box price, is a DOA business model for MMOs in the current environment. I really think that a Hybrid Model can work, some MMOs that have been forced to convert do offer optional subscriptions with special benefits, which works for many of their long term players who still play on a regular basis. Nothing sadder, IMO, than seeing publishers who just continue to cling to the dying/dead model when there are many other options that might make much, much more sense for their product.
Look at World of Tanks. F2P. Benevolent Cash Shop. However, you can buy by Premium Account status in chunks as small as 24 hours and as long as a year. The bigger the chunk, the less the cost per day. The benefit? +50% XP and +50% currency while under Premium status. A similar business model could work for a AAA MMO. Paired with a game people decide is worth playing, this business model rakes in the cash and also rakes in new players, while maintaining high retention rates. When someone decides they need a break, no harm, no foul. No ongoing sub fee and no barrier to hopping back in when ever the mood strikes. Even though buying Premium for a Day or a Weekend isn't very economical, people who play off and on do shell out the bucks for the added benefit.
At this point, I don't only view the Box+Sub Model as repugnant, but as a clear sign that the developer/publisher is just plain clueless about the genre they develop for, which may mean the game isn't worth buying in the first place. It's the equivalent of putting a dunce cap on their heads before going out to sell their game on an already jaded and skeptical audience.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Can't stand free to play business models 90% of the time, I much prefer subs as a way of preventing pay 2 win and keeping out the riff raff. And for the record, typically F2P=P2W=more expensive than a sub; I'd rather pay a standard fee for a level playing field, provided the game isn't trash.
I believe we are confusing 2 different problems here.
1) You don't like paying for it because it'll force you to play. Do you pay for Amazon Prime? Do you make EVERY purchase through them never going to the store? Do you pay for cable and watch it 24/7? Do you buy a cell phone and talk constantly on it? $15 bucks is a popcorn and movie. It's a meal at a restaurant. Or it's something where you could have 720 HRS worth of gameplay if you want to dedicate it like that.
2) Purchase through ingame means. Like Eve. Plex. I give you my gold, you give me your 30 days game time. I can't farm constantly in Eve and someone does. I sell them my time for their cash. Unfair? Why? I'm not saying that it won't give gold farmers something to do, but it DOES equalize some of the economy and so long as they take measures to prevent gold sellers then it is a method that SHOULD be used. Skim some off the top for inflation and you're good.
I'm no economist but I can tell you the quality of F2P games are garbage. You get what you pay for. I've been playing Marvel Heroes and listening to people whine about unlocking things. Mind you all the characters can be unlocked with a little bit of elbow grease. But the way people complain you'd think you could never unlock anything in the game. That game does it almost perfectly and people still complain. I think of the $15 fee anymore like a club door fee. It keeps some riff-raff out (esp. gold sellers because of box + sub) and keeps me happy.
I voted no, not because of the payment model.
I voted no because this game is to much WoW and not enough Star.
I'm not pre ordering WildStar but not due to the business model.
I agree with you.. but WildStar is as far away from being a RPG as I am from a Nobel prize in physics.
Elite: Dangerous - Space Exploration & Trading.
Yes because gold farmer will buy sub and sell it gold, wasnt it other way around, this is exactly to prevent gold farmers and bots, if someone really wants gold, he buys sub and sells it to player = legit gold, without buying from gold farmer,
1+1 is too hard for some
I don't get the point of this thread at all. So the OP is complaining that people can pay with in game currency for their monthly sub. So they are still paying a sub one way or the other. Whether it be RL cash or in game cash...it is still going to cost them.
And feeling obligated to play more because you pay? Seriously? 15/month is too steep. That is like 50cents a day! Most people spend more than that on their morning cup of coffee. Or a snack at work or school.
I am not going to be playing this game. But I do support Sub based MMOs. I wish more were purely sub based. Not this sub plus cash shop like certain other upcomming releases.
I'd say this is just another 'I want my game to be free to play.' And if it were F2P it would be a post about Cash shop costing too much. Pay the dam sub one way or the other and stop cryin about it. Or go play one of the other hundreds of poorly made F2P MMOs out there.
^ thisIt depends on the price from gold farmers, if they are cheap people will buy for F2P.