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The new business model

TechnoMonkeyTechnoMonkey Member UncommonPosts: 93

Box = $60 (Collector's edition with in-game advantages = $120)

+

Sub = %15/month

+

Cash shop with in-game advantages

+

As soon as the subs drop to below what we consider acceptable, we drop the sub and introduce the Free-to-Play model (that we had ALREADY planned from the start)

 

 THIS is the new norm if we keep making games like ESO a "success" and we keep falling for these overhyped moneygrabs people... seriously wake the fuck up. If we keep letting them get away with shit like this they will keep making them, over and over... and who will be the biggest loser? US GAMERS. They will keep ruining perfectly good IPs like Star wars and Elder Scrolls.

Can we stop being fanboys for a second and think about what these companies are really doing?

«13

Comments

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Welcome to the new normal.  The people who are ok enough with it to keep giving them money vastly outnumber the people who are outraged, or even those who are mildly irritated.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431
    Making money off of people that play games as a hobby? Not surprising. It is a horse for less than the CE horse of $20. How does that equate to the end of the world?

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    Someone buy that man a horse before he explodes.

    You stay sassy!

  • Allacore69Allacore69 Member Posts: 839


    Originally posted by TechnoMonkey
    Box = $60 (Collector's edition with in-game advantages = $120)+Sub = %15/month+Cash shop with in-game advantages+As soon as the subs drop to below what we consider acceptable, we drop the sub and introduce the Free-to-Play model (that we had ALREADY planned from the start)  THIS is the new norm if we keep making games like ESO a "success" and we keep falling for these overhyped moneygrabs people... seriously wake the fuck up. If we keep letting them get away with shit like this they will keep making them, over and over... and who will be the biggest loser? US GAMERS. They will keep ruining perfectly good IPs like Star wars and Elder Scrolls.Can we stop being fanboys for a second and think about what these companies are really doing?


    UUUUMMMMMM......No.

    I'll always be a fanboy and nobody can make me stop. Especially people who post here lol.

  • handlewithcarehandlewithcare Member Posts: 322

    what about the rest of the world players are we just chopped liver?

    and like some people said in the 1990`s if a bottle of whisky costs 10$ its still a bargain.

    I will pay if a game is worth it.

  • LisaFlexy22LisaFlexy22 Member UncommonPosts: 450
    Originally posted by TechnoMonkey

    Box = $60 (Collector's edition with in-game advantages = $120)

    +

    Sub = %15/month

    +

    Cash shop with in-game advantages

    +

    As soon as the subs drop to below what we consider acceptable, we drop the sub and introduce the Free-to-Play model (that we had ALREADY planned from the start)

     

     THIS is the new norm if we keep making games like ESO a "success" and we keep falling for these overhyped moneygrabs people... seriously wake the fuck up. If we keep letting them get away with shit like this they will keep making them, over and over... and who will be the biggest loser? US GAMERS. They will keep ruining perfectly good IPs like Star wars and Elder Scrolls.

    Can we stop being fanboys for a second and think about what these companies are really doing?

    I'm a fan of ESO the GAME, but I agree with your post and feel ESO and Wildstar both are just launching with a sub in order to get the box sale push at the beginning.  I'm sure they already have the f2p switch planned.

     

    But to answer the highlighted question - NO.  It only takes reading forums here, reddit, and elsewhere to know that people / consumers will continue to accept, and even defend to the death, these types of business practices for the current game they are attached to.

  • TechnoMonkeyTechnoMonkey Member UncommonPosts: 93
    Originally posted by handlewithcare

    what about the rest of the world players are we just chopped liver?

    and like some people said in the 1990`s if a bottle of whisky costs 10$ its still a bargain.

    I will pay if a game is worth it.

    Us gamers, as in those of us who play games. Sorry about the caps.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22

    I'm a fan of ESO the GAME, but I agree with your post and feel ESO and Wildstar both are just launching with a sub in order to get the box sale push at the beginning.  I'm sure they already have the f2p switch planned. 

    But to answer the highlighted question - NO.  It only takes reading forums here, reddit, and elsewhere to know that people / consumers will continue to accept, and even defend to the death, these types of business practices for the current game they are attached to.

    Hell, I'll defend it from the games I absolutely loathe.  I don't get mad at people for doing their jobs, and the job of these companies is to maximize profits.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,658

    OP - put yourself in the shoes of the developer for 1 second.

    They need to recoup the costs of development (200M+) and then make a profit.

    Subscription only is the stupid way of doing it as it has a ceiling on profit per player.

    Cash shop lets each player spend as little or as much as they want/can afford.

     

    Cash shops are the only SANE option for any major MMORPG, especially AAA one - regardless if they are subscription or B2P.

    You need to have a cash shop otherwise you're just killing yourself on potential profits.

     

    So you need to wake up, Zenimax woke up, good for them - now the rest of the players thinking that sub-only games are viable today need to wake up.

     

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431

    I am all for taking on corporations and breaking up monopolies. I think the biggest issue in the world is the fact that those at the top make billions while their workers make peanuts but do all the work. And monopolies prevent competition by being able to buy out or destroy any company that wants to offer anything close to what a monopoly controls.

     

    But this is a video game. One where you may spend $60 plus $15 for months of entertainment. Fighting against $15 or FTP or B2P or whatever just doesn't make sense. I know these companies make a lot of money off of us. But for $15 I am willing to accept a lot if the game is fun for me. That is all it comes down to, weather I get $15 worth of entertainment each month. From what I have seen, I will. With or without a horse.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • TechnoMonkeyTechnoMonkey Member UncommonPosts: 93

    I'm not blaming companies for trying to maximize profits, as it IS their job as people here will quickly remind us... I'm saying we should be a little smarter as consumers not to fall for the trap, as we are the ones getting FUCKED (the quality of MMOs is suffering).

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,658
    Originally posted by LisaFlexy22
    Originally posted by TechnoMonkey

    Box = $60 (Collector's edition with in-game advantages = $120)

    +

    Sub = %15/month

    +

    Cash shop with in-game advantages

    +

    As soon as the subs drop to below what we consider acceptable, we drop the sub and introduce the Free-to-Play model (that we had ALREADY planned from the start)

     

     THIS is the new norm if we keep making games like ESO a "success" and we keep falling for these overhyped moneygrabs people... seriously wake the fuck up. If we keep letting them get away with shit like this they will keep making them, over and over... and who will be the biggest loser? US GAMERS. They will keep ruining perfectly good IPs like Star wars and Elder Scrolls.

    Can we stop being fanboys for a second and think about what these companies are really doing?

    I'm a fan of ESO the GAME, but I agree with your post and feel ESO and Wildstar both are just launching with a sub in order to get the box sale push at the beginning.  I'm sure they already have the f2p switch planned.

     

    But to answer the highlighted question - NO.  It only takes reading forums here, reddit, and elsewhere to know that people / consumers will continue to accept, and even defend to the death, these types of business practices for the current game they are attached to.

    It has nothing to do with accepting or defending anything - it has to do with a simple fact - without a cash shop - games cannot survive today.

    That is reality.

    So would you rather continue to have companies make MMORPGs, or do you want to see MMORPGs die forever and never a new one made?

    That is the real question.

    If you want to see more MMORPGs made, then accept cash shops as reality - it is the ONLY way to have a profitable game in todays market, without it - your game dies.

     

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    Well, I think that a cash shop plus subscription plus cost for buying the game is a bit much. Especially if people who pay more have advantages in the game over other players. For me, a subscription based game should ensure that all players are basically equal, but that's not the case with ESO, which is one of the reasons why I won't buy the game.

    I'm quite sure it will still be successful, but there are many good games out there, so I have no problem being entertained anyway. :) If players in ESO would be equal, I'd probably buy it.

    It seems to me that, as often these games, the aim of the company is not to create a good game, but to milk the players as much as possible, before first dropping the game to free to play and then dumping it for good.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • hulgarhulgar Member Posts: 93
    As with the rest of my entertaimenta..if i consider it woth my time and money..i do it..if not..i speak with my wallet and i dont try to convince anyone else.
    Want to make somwthing worthy of your anger?..go out and fight the good fight..not here about the cost of pixels.
  • akathosakathos Member UncommonPosts: 179
    lol.................... I thought I'd return to this site and give the forum another go, but nope.. still all doom gloom hate everything wine about all, all this negativity over something so trivial. I'm out for good this time, people have seriously just got to grow up ffs. I will be playing ESO, with the Retail cost, sub fee and maybe even purchase some items in the cash shop if I so choose to do so, after all that's my choice, I'm not being forced to buy anything. Well, I'm done with this site I need me some positivity about stuff. Not expecting to be missed but making a point this site is getting worse.
  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,620
    Troubling times in Toon Town.
  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,185

    Playing any MMORPG at launch is nowdays a really stupid idea.

    Sure you get to start right of the bat but is the price/value anywhere near what it should be?

    Nope.

  • AroukosAroukos Member Posts: 571
    Originally posted by DMKano

    OP - put yourself in the shoes of the developer for 1 second.

    They need to recoup the costs of development (200M+) and then make a profit.

    Subscription only is the stupid way of doing it as it has a ceiling on profit per player.

    Cash shop lets each player spend as little or as much as they want/can afford.

     

    Cash shops are the only SANE option for any major MMORPG, especially AAA one - regardless if they are subscription or B2P.

    You need to have a cash shop otherwise you're just killing yourself on potential profits.

     

    So you need to wake up, Zenimax woke up, good for them - now the rest of the players thinking that sub-only games are viable today need to wake up.

     

    Agree 100%

  • xpiherxpiher Member UncommonPosts: 3,310
    Originally posted by DMKano

    OP - put yourself in the shoes of the developer for 1 second.

    They need to recoup the costs of development (200M+) and then make a profit.

    Subscription only is the stupid way of doing it as it has a ceiling on profit per player.

    Cash shop lets each player spend as little or as much as they want/can afford.

     

    Cash shops are the only SANE option for any major MMORPG, especially AAA one - regardless if they are subscription or B2P.

    You need to have a cash shop otherwise you're just killing yourself on potential profits.

     

    So you need to wake up, Zenimax woke up, good for them - now the rest of the players thinking that sub-only games are viable today need to wake up.

     

    Everyone should know by now that developers recoup the cost of development in Box sales not subs. Subs are there to reduce overhead on running servers and keeping a larger staff on hand to continue further development; however, its not necessary to do anymore.

    ESO's success or failure will only be measured, in the industry, by the number of boxes it sells. 

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,912
    Originally posted by Aroukos
    Originally posted by DMKano

    OP - put yourself in the shoes of the developer for 1 second.

    They need to recoup the costs of development (200M+) and then make a profit.

    Subscription only is the stupid way of doing it as it has a ceiling on profit per player.

    Cash shop lets each player spend as little or as much as they want/can afford.

     

    Cash shops are the only SANE option for any major MMORPG, especially AAA one - regardless if they are subscription or B2P.

    You need to have a cash shop otherwise you're just killing yourself on potential profits.

     

    So you need to wake up, Zenimax woke up, good for them - now the rest of the players thinking that sub-only games are viable today need to wake up.

     

    Agree 100%

    Yes, I agree as well.

     

    All the former AAA subscription-based MMO's that are now F2P made a large chunk of cash from their box sales at launch and 1st year or two of subscriptions. That is why "quality" games like Rift can now offer such generous F2P monetization schemes. They made back their costs and turned some profit, so now they can afford to be generous.

     

    EQN:L is the first "AAA" MMORPG in the western market that is being developed as F2P from the get go. You can already pay for alpha access, and you can bet there will be a never-ending stream of "incentives" to spend money in the Cash Shop. It can't be any other way.

     

    There is no magic formula where large groups of people will work for 2 or 3 years to develop a quality MMO and accept pennies in payment. You get what you pay for.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144
    Originally posted by DMKano

    OP - put yourself in the shoes of the developer for 1 second.

    They need to recoup the costs of development (200M+) and then make a profit.

    Subscription only is the stupid way of doing it as it has a ceiling on profit per player.

    Cash shop lets each player spend as little or as much as they want/can afford.

     

    Cash shops are the only SANE option for any major MMORPG, especially AAA one - regardless if they are subscription or B2P.

    You need to have a cash shop otherwise you're just killing yourself on potential profits.

     

    So you need to wake up, Zenimax woke up, good for them - now the rest of the players thinking that sub-only games are viable today need to wake up.

     

     

    I sure hope you don't believe what you just stated.   Hoping that less than 10% of your player base will recoup the costs of a 200+ mil project is absolutely stupid.   Even more so when it doesn't appeal to a player base that actually embraces microtransactions.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Originally posted by artemisentr4
    Making money off of people that play games as a hobby? Not surprising. It is a horse for less than the CE horse of $20. How does that equate to the end of the world?

     

    It's called setting a precedent. It's also extremely consumer unfriendly and bordering on unethical. When there's F2P games like PoE who shows what an ethical business model looks like, things like this are hard to swallow. In any case, it's not the end of the world, of course. It's irritating and disheartening to see people defend such a business model especially when the company themselves said there would be no cash shop at launch. 

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257
    Now that they have opened pandora's box horse won't be the last item in cash shop. Soon we'll see all kind of boosts and other advantages there. After all it's more profitable for Zenimax to add new items to the store than to the game.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,026

    Baaaaa Baaaa Baaaa in great numbers


    Makes the wolves full!

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • charlizdcharlizd Member UncommonPosts: 923

    Cash shop or no cashshop, sub or no sub, it really does not matter, they have to recoup there costings one way or another and i could really care less how they do it so long as they make and keep making a solid game, nobody is forced to do either one and if you feel you are at a disadvantage because you don't want to buy into the cashop then i guess it is your loss as i am sure plenty will.

    I am not a fan of how things work these days in the mmo world but we have to just face the fact that this is how things are now.

    Kind of like how games back in the day were EPIC pieces of art and now most are bland boring pieces of crap, alot has changes over the years and i'm sure more changes are to come, it's just a matter of us having to adapt and accept or revolt and get left behind, like the saying goes, if you can't beat em, join em.

    image

This discussion has been closed.