Is this one of the best undercover trolls or really serious?
If you're serious, I have to say this is really really silly.
If you're a troll - good one!
Hahaha I never even thought of that. But you're right my nickname does fit the topic of this thread; what a coincidence! It's actually RL my nickname. I used to be a little overweight as a teenager but despite that I was the fastest swimmer on my swim team through all of highschool so they called me the Seacow. Despite some of the mocking behind it I quite like the nickname and still choose to use it, because it shows that you can't judge a book by its cover. The irony in the nickname is still not lost today because I look much fitter than I used to and people wonder how the nickname is relevant lol.
Well I played hockey my whole life and since I can't find any frozen water get all my guild mates together and play a pick up hockey game in ESO I won't buy it either ZERO immersion what is wrong with these devs!
I can still swim in the game....even swim "fast" as an Argonian. Just can't dive.
I don't love or hate water combat but what always made me laugh was jumping into the water in full armor and swimming around like your in a bathing suit.
I gave the beta a try this weekend and let me tell you: I actually found that they did a lot of things right in this game. Props to the devs for all the work they put in. I'm especially impressed how successful they've been in their implementation of mass pvp. I would go into more detail of all the little things I found that were well designed in this game except I found that they took out one often ignored feature that made me decide that this is NOT a world that I want to settle in: the inability to dive underwater.
I'm sorry but this is gamebreaking for me. Do I spend a lot of time underwater in games? No. Do I care much for underwater combat? No. Do I think you should be able to hold your breath alot and swim underwater forever? No (I actually like how it works in Skyrim and Oblivion). But it's just something you "do" in virtual worlds. It's a little interaction with the world that has existed for a long time now and I see no reason to take it out (especially when your gameworld has so much water). It's just as important to me as jumping or emotes; I don't spend much time doing either of those things but take it out and the gameworld just doesn't feel "right". There's so many kinds of adventures and exploration that a player can never have now because they chose to not allow underwater swimming in any form; very disappointing.
Now before this devolves into an argument about whether or not they intend to keep diving out of the game, I just want to point out that there have been numerous forums posts about this and there has been no indication that they intend to change this. On the contrary they actually use your inability to dive and fight underwater as a wall mechanic to zones i.e. you get eaten by slaughterfish that you can't fight back against if you try to swim too far out to sea. I'm assuming for all intents and purposes that this design decision is here to stay, and I cannot abide it.
How many times in your life have you been scuba diving, spear fishing, or punching whales in the face in real life? This is not an activity one does in RL regularly furthermore they do have fishing which is the preferred method of catching beasts of the water just saying. Now granted it would be nice to see a little more depth to the water interaction in terms of being able to dive down a bit but the combat is rather useless imho and could live without either of them.
This is such an inane response.
How many times have you killed a dragon with a sword or shot a fireball out of your fingers in RL?
How many times in your life have you been scuba diving, spear fishing, or punching whales in the face in real life? This is not an activity one does in RL regularly furthermore they do have fishing which is the preferred method of catching beasts of the water just saying. Now granted it would be nice to see a little more depth to the water interaction in terms of being able to dive down a bit but the combat is rather useless imho and could live without either of them.
This is such an inane response.
How many times have you killed a dragon with a sword or shot a fireball out of your fingers in RL?
Also, I may not go around catching fish with my bare hands or punching whales but I do actually spend alot of my time in water diving. The most interesting things in the water irl are almost always IN it. Not being able to dive at all is a major bummer.
Actually now that I think about it, OP, what would you do if there was a game with all the immersion bits, swimming underwater, sitting in chairs, owning homes and such. But the actual gameplay sucked.
Would you buy it?
After all, the point for your purchase or not to purchase is to reward or punish developers for putting the 'little things' in or leaving them out.
How do they know what you aren't buying because they left things out, or don't like Elder Scrolls games, or don't like PvP or don't like...
How do they know you are buying for the underwater exploration?
What are the odds, of a game being perfect in that there is no one element missing or present that would cause you to not buy the game? Honestly now.
If you know of psychology and shaping, only rewarding for the exact behavior you want will end up in your never seeing it. But if you reward incrementally for getting closer and closer to the goal, eventually you will see the behavior you want. I think ESO is a step in a good direction. I like playing. There are features missing, yes but rather than depriving myself of a fun game and showing no support for the effort at all...
I'll buy. And buy games that continue to move in this direction, and don't buy the ones that regress.
Your money is yours, OP. But I think you are being way too exacting and dooming yourself to never be satisfied with anything. Or are you looking for others to make all the investments and positive encouragement for you?
I enjoy water zones like many but after i gave it some thought,i enjoyed MANY years 10+ of FFXI with never a water zone and it never phased me one bit.
Then you need to realize that NOBODY does water zones correctly,well expect Unreal Tournament which used physics properties to give it some realism.Realism is the keyword,if you don't create some realistic properties within the water zone ,then it is just what it is a "water zone" and not really a water zone,if you catch my drift.
To understand what i just said,you need to realize that there really is no water,it is simply EXACTLY like a land mass but with an actor that gives the zone certain properties to make the user think it is actually water.Point is just adding an actor and a few check marks you can instantly turn ANY zone into a water zone,so it really is not a big deal.
The big deal is it does take a bit of time and effort to make that actor with coded properties,but imo not a ton of time.Land mass has lighting effects already so not like adding any to a water zone is added effort,the real work comes in the form of physics.Example projectiles SHOULD slow down under water,FIRE should not work properly under water ect ect,you catch the drift.
My point is that if your not going to do it right,then just omit it altogether and nobody is doing water zones correctly with realism,so it is not a big deal.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Actually now that I think about it, OP, what would you do if there was a game with all the immersion bits, swimming underwater, sitting in chairs, owning homes and such. But the actual gameplay sucked.
Would you buy it?
After all, the point for your purchase or not to purchase is to reward or punish developers for putting the 'little things' in or leaving them out.
How do they know what you aren't buying because they left things out, or don't like Elder Scrolls games, or don't like PvP or don't like...
How do they know you are buying for the underwater exploration?
What are the odds, of a game being perfect in that there is no one element missing or present that would cause you to not buy the game? Honestly now.
If you know of psychology and shaping, only rewarding for the exact behavior you want will end up in your never seeing it. But if you reward incrementally for getting closer and closer to the goal, eventually you will see the behavior you want. I think ESO is a step in a good direction. I like playing. There are features missing, yes but rather than depriving myself of a fun game and showing no support for the effort at all...
I'll buy. And buy games that continue to move in this direction, and don't buy the ones that regress.
Your money is yours, OP. But I think you are being way too exacting and dooming yourself to never be satisfied with anything. Or are you looking for others to make all the investments and positive encouragement for you?
Your right, rewarding incrementally is how you get results and I simply don't think ESO is a step in the right direction. I'll tell you why I don't want to reward ESO: Because I simply don't believe they will EVER put in underwater swimming. It's a belief I know but it's not something enough people care about (as can be evidenced from this thread) and they have much more important things to work on if they want to keep/get more subs. This is simply something that devs don't go back and implement, they either have it from the start or not at all. You don't see me making a thread about housing, or /duel for example, other features which I value alot but which I'm not being too judgemental about since there's a long history in MMO's of devs implementing these features at a later date. So why do I draw the line at diving? Because I believe it's not going to ever make it in and I can't invest in a game where I can't do that. Could I be wrong? Sure, but there's alot of evidence (from the history of the MMORPG's, the recent tendencies of the franchise, the attitude of the devs towards it, the requirement to go back and redesign the water of all zones, and in-game mechanics that are actually built around no diving) to tell me that I'm not.
I admit to being slightly bummed about not being able to go underwater. One of my first mmorpg experiences was falling into a fountain and not being able to figure out how to swim before drowning (I know I know, pitiful). However, I feel environmental hazards add to a game. Why have falling damage but not give me the ability to drown after I have had a few too many drinks in me? Is this a deal breaker for me? no. Is it something that I hope to see added at a later date? yes. One of the few things I actually like about Wildstar, is that they embraced environmental hazards. I want fire to burn, bees to sting, falls to break me into tiny itty bitty pieces, and water to restrict my ability to breath. Elder Scrolls Online has exceeded my expectations on so many other levels, though, that I am amazed at how fast the time flies while playing it.
I'm always looking for MMOs that can immerse me in the world and this was the first thing I tried when I went into the water, I was disappointed since one of the aspects they were focusing on the trailer was the immersion.
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Originally posted by DeathmachinePT I'm always looking for MMOs that can immerse me in the world and this was the first thing I tried when I went into the water, I was disappointed since one of the aspects they were focusing on the trailer was the immersion.
What do you mean? I didn't really get that out of the trailer.
I hate underwater combat, but underwater exploration is really fun. Finding hidden underwater caves with stuff in them is really nice for exploration content. I wont lose my sleep though if it's not there, a lot more important things comes first.
Originally posted by DeathmachinePT I'm always looking for MMOs that can immerse me in the world and this was the first thing I tried when I went into the water, I was disappointed since one of the aspects they were focusing on the trailer was the immersion.
What do you mean? I didn't really get that out of the trailer.
In the trailer or commented trailer they mention it was a very immersive experience and sometimes seeing something in horizon would often lead to interesting quests, plus they showed fishing and swimming so I thought you could dive and explored the sea.
When I got to the started island the first thing I tried on the beach was to dive and swim and see if there was any content there.
It's a shame since I thought this was now standard in MMO's EQ2 had it and GW2 implemented it too only MMOs from SWG era didn't and was something of a turn down to me, since I always wanted to visited the gungan underwater cities of naboo.
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41 Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC 16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet. Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
To be honest it did bother my when i beta tested it, Not enough to have it be a game breaker, however the list of things i didnt like about it handled that just fine. My opinion has remained as such. ESO is good, just not good enough to justify a Sub. Given that im interested in Wildstar and am still Subbed to TSW. remember not to consiter me a F2P person.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Not having swimming or water combat is a horrible reason reason for not playing the game.
Why? Because there are a million other legitimate reasons not to play.
What makes this reason any less valid? Immersion is important to me and lots of other people. And though i've heard alot of complaints about underwater combat the general consensus is pro underwater exploration (finding hiding places and things underwater). None of that can ever happen in a game with no diving.
You couldn't swim underwater in DAoC at first either. Maybe the OP can just fill some goggles up with water, put them on and pretend he is underwater. Every now and then gasp for air, etc. This might take two people to do however, one can pore water down a snorkel while the OP sucks the water into his lungs to simulate drowning. This would be a game breaker for me because I like to spend 100% of my time in mmos underwater and alone.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Not having swimming or water combat is a horrible reason reason for not playing the game.
Why? Because there are a million other legitimate reasons not to play.
What makes this reason any less valid? Immersion is important to me and lots of other people. And though i've heard alot of complaints about underwater combat the general consensus is pro underwater exploration (finding hiding places and things underwater). None of that can ever happen in a game with no diving.
because its so realistic and immersive that people in metal armor can swim underwater and not sink. And not just go underwater but stay there for minutes. Yep, my immersion is totally broken. Although to be honest the lack of toilets and toilet paper had pretty much ruined it for me already; how can you have a world with no bathroom facilities?
Not having swimming or water combat is a horrible reason reason for not playing the game.
Why? Because there are a million other legitimate reasons not to play.
What makes this reason any less valid? Immersion is important to me and lots of other people. And though i've heard alot of complaints about underwater combat the general consensus is pro underwater exploration (finding hiding places and things underwater). None of that can ever happen in a game with no diving.
You're not going to win anything with the immersion argument, simply because you've "proven" to already suspend your disbelief when it comes to interacting with water. You don't stay wet or you dry off quickly. You can swim in heavy clothes or metal, etc, etc.
Just leave it as "something else to do in game" and you won't have people tearing your argument apart.
Not having swimming or water combat is a horrible reason reason for not playing the game.
Why? Because there are a million other legitimate reasons not to play.
What makes this reason any less valid? Immersion is important to me and lots of other people. And though i've heard alot of complaints about underwater combat the general consensus is pro underwater exploration (finding hiding places and things underwater). None of that can ever happen in a game with no diving.
You're not going to win anything with the immersion argument, simply because you've "proven" to already suspend your disbelief when it comes to interacting with water. You don't stay wet or you dry off quickly. You can swim in heavy clothes or metal, etc, etc.
Just leave it as "something else to do in game" and you won't have people tearing your argument apart.
Thats possibly the lamest excuse I have ever heard for defending a missing feature that many enjoy and is also a launch feature in possibly this games biggest competition.
Did you really just try to argue seacow1g's comments on underwater content / diving providing immersion are invalid based on the realistic card? So immersion is invalid because people wearing heavy armor couldn't go diving? Lol...
The failure to include any kind of underwater content / exploration etc is nothing short of another missed opportunity which will disappoint many.
Comments
I can still swim in the game....even swim "fast" as an Argonian. Just can't dive.
This is such an inane response.
How many times have you killed a dragon with a sword or shot a fireball out of your fingers in RL?
Also, I may not go around catching fish with my bare hands or punching whales but I do actually spend alot of my time in water diving. The most interesting things in the water irl are almost always IN it. Not being able to dive at all is a major bummer.
Not having swimming or water combat is a horrible reason reason for not playing the game.
Why? Because there are a million other legitimate reasons not to play.
No Underwater Swimming Or Combat? Ya...Definitely Not Buying This
( waves hand ) ........ok bye then
They poop in it too
lol this ^^
Actually now that I think about it, OP, what would you do if there was a game with all the immersion bits, swimming underwater, sitting in chairs, owning homes and such. But the actual gameplay sucked.
Would you buy it?
After all, the point for your purchase or not to purchase is to reward or punish developers for putting the 'little things' in or leaving them out.
How do they know what you aren't buying because they left things out, or don't like Elder Scrolls games, or don't like PvP or don't like...
How do they know you are buying for the underwater exploration?
What are the odds, of a game being perfect in that there is no one element missing or present that would cause you to not buy the game? Honestly now.
If you know of psychology and shaping, only rewarding for the exact behavior you want will end up in your never seeing it. But if you reward incrementally for getting closer and closer to the goal, eventually you will see the behavior you want. I think ESO is a step in a good direction. I like playing. There are features missing, yes but rather than depriving myself of a fun game and showing no support for the effort at all...
I'll buy. And buy games that continue to move in this direction, and don't buy the ones that regress.
Your money is yours, OP. But I think you are being way too exacting and dooming yourself to never be satisfied with anything. Or are you looking for others to make all the investments and positive encouragement for you?
I enjoy water zones like many but after i gave it some thought,i enjoyed MANY years 10+ of FFXI with never a water zone and it never phased me one bit.
Then you need to realize that NOBODY does water zones correctly,well expect Unreal Tournament which used physics properties to give it some realism.Realism is the keyword,if you don't create some realistic properties within the water zone ,then it is just what it is a "water zone" and not really a water zone,if you catch my drift.
To understand what i just said,you need to realize that there really is no water,it is simply EXACTLY like a land mass but with an actor that gives the zone certain properties to make the user think it is actually water.Point is just adding an actor and a few check marks you can instantly turn ANY zone into a water zone,so it really is not a big deal.
The big deal is it does take a bit of time and effort to make that actor with coded properties,but imo not a ton of time.Land mass has lighting effects already so not like adding any to a water zone is added effort,the real work comes in the form of physics.Example projectiles SHOULD slow down under water,FIRE should not work properly under water ect ect,you catch the drift.
My point is that if your not going to do it right,then just omit it altogether and nobody is doing water zones correctly with realism,so it is not a big deal.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Your right, rewarding incrementally is how you get results and I simply don't think ESO is a step in the right direction. I'll tell you why I don't want to reward ESO: Because I simply don't believe they will EVER put in underwater swimming. It's a belief I know but it's not something enough people care about (as can be evidenced from this thread) and they have much more important things to work on if they want to keep/get more subs. This is simply something that devs don't go back and implement, they either have it from the start or not at all. You don't see me making a thread about housing, or /duel for example, other features which I value alot but which I'm not being too judgemental about since there's a long history in MMO's of devs implementing these features at a later date. So why do I draw the line at diving? Because I believe it's not going to ever make it in and I can't invest in a game where I can't do that. Could I be wrong? Sure, but there's alot of evidence (from the history of the MMORPG's, the recent tendencies of the franchise, the attitude of the devs towards it, the requirement to go back and redesign the water of all zones, and in-game mechanics that are actually built around no diving) to tell me that I'm not.
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Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41
Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC
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Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
What do you mean? I didn't really get that out of the trailer.
My list was perfect till I read this thread.......I honestly don't know where to put it....
In the trailer or commented trailer they mention it was a very immersive experience and sometimes seeing something in horizon would often lead to interesting quests, plus they showed fishing and swimming so I thought you could dive and explored the sea.
When I got to the started island the first thing I tried on the beach was to dive and swim and see if there was any content there.
It's a shame since I thought this was now standard in MMO's EQ2 had it and GW2 implemented it too only MMOs from SWG era didn't and was something of a turn down to me, since I always wanted to visited the gungan underwater cities of naboo.
ASROCK Z97 E-ITX
Intel i7 4790k @ 4.5Ghz+KrakenX41
Gigabyte 1070 8GB Mini OC
16GB Crucial 1333mhz 1.3V
SWG 8 Year Vet, WW2OL 8 Year Vet.
Aka Darksparrow Rancorheart(tempest/farstar), Fxmkorp
To be honest it did bother my when i beta tested it, Not enough to have it be a game breaker, however the list of things i didnt like about it handled that just fine. My opinion has remained as such. ESO is good, just not good enough to justify a Sub. Given that im interested in Wildstar and am still Subbed to TSW. remember not to consiter me a F2P person.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
What makes this reason any less valid? Immersion is important to me and lots of other people. And though i've heard alot of complaints about underwater combat the general consensus is pro underwater exploration (finding hiding places and things underwater). None of that can ever happen in a game with no diving.
Dumbest thing I have read in a long time.
You couldn't swim underwater in DAoC at first either. Maybe the OP can just fill some goggles up with water, put them on and pretend he is underwater. Every now and then gasp for air, etc. This might take two people to do however, one can pore water down a snorkel while the OP sucks the water into his lungs to simulate drowning. This would be a game breaker for me because I like to spend 100% of my time in mmos underwater and alone.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
because its so realistic and immersive that people in metal armor can swim underwater and not sink. And not just go underwater but stay there for minutes. Yep, my immersion is totally broken. Although to be honest the lack of toilets and toilet paper had pretty much ruined it for me already; how can you have a world with no bathroom facilities?
FAIL FAIL FAIL!
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
You're not going to win anything with the immersion argument, simply because you've "proven" to already suspend your disbelief when it comes to interacting with water. You don't stay wet or you dry off quickly. You can swim in heavy clothes or metal, etc, etc.
Just leave it as "something else to do in game" and you won't have people tearing your argument apart.
Thats possibly the lamest excuse I have ever heard for defending a missing feature that many enjoy and is also a launch feature in possibly this games biggest competition.
Did you really just try to argue seacow1g's comments on underwater content / diving providing immersion are invalid based on the realistic card? So immersion is invalid because people wearing heavy armor couldn't go diving? Lol...
The failure to include any kind of underwater content / exploration etc is nothing short of another missed opportunity which will disappoint many.