Really nice to see this topic going in the right direction without flamewars. Also nice to see so many people that agree and want social leveling back.
Testing in ESO showed that xp is given out equally to everyone hitting the mob. And it is NOT divided! Let's put some facts into this topic and show that there is an indicator for possible group xping.
Let's assume a mob gives 100xp.
If i kill it alone, i get 100xp.
If i kill it and someone else is doing half the damage, i also get 100xp.
If i kill it and someone else is doing 90% of the damage, i still get 100xp.
If i group up with the other guy and we kill said mob, we both gain 110xp (10% bonus per member).
So, good to know and glad to see this system.
Still the Nr1 Question remains: Do only MAINSTORY quests give out direct skillpoints, or do we have to do every sidequest as well to gain points? Anyone found a quest that gives a skillpoint and is NOTpart of the main story?
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Really nice to see this topic going in the right direction without flamewars. Also nice to see so many people that agree and want social leveling back.
Testing in ESO showed that xp is given out equally to everyone hitting the mob. And it is NOT divided! Let's put some facts into this topic and show that there is an indicator for possible group xping.
Let's assume a mob gives 100xp.
If i kill it alone, i get 100xp.
If i kill it and someone else is doing half the damage, i also get 100xp.
If i kill it and someone else is doing 90% of the damage, i still get 100xp.
If i group up with the other guy and we kill said mob, we both gain 110xp (10% bonus per member).
So, good to know and glad to see this system.
Still the Nr1 Question remains: Do only MAINSTORY quests give out direct skillpoints, or do we have to do every sidequest as well to gain points? Anyone found a quest that gives a skillpoint and is NOTpart of the main story?
what if say me and you are in a group and i kill the mob and you just stand there without hitting it, do you still get the 110 xp?
I guess that they put a limit on powerleveling tho. This could be abused for pushing a new toon otherwise. Like level difference is counted, or your level compared to the mobs level. This is speculation tho and i really don't care if it gets abused. It does help the social aspects... and god knows they are rare enough.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I, for one, do not miss camping mobs for hours on end just to gain a level. Having said that, if you want to level up by just grinding mob spawn for hours and hours, you could do that.
As much as I would love to have the freedom to grind on mobs through the levels if I want to, it's just really not an option in MMOs anymore. I did a little test (only solo, mind you) during this weekend and the XP gain was absolutely terrible, well, I wasn't surprised.
The real fun of mob grinding in EQ is long gone (though hopefully it will be an option again in EQ Next), and I believe the biggest reason for that is due to the significant downtime required for meditating/regen (as the OP mentioned). That mechanic sounds like an awful idea in todays games, but back then it provided ample time to really interact and get to know the people you were grouped with that often lead to some unforgettable experiences and new friends. People just don't understand or can even imagine this concept today, which is really sad. Unfortunately WoW took things in the themepark direction and almost every MMO since has used WoW, rather than EQ as a template.
Social levelling, public dungeons etc (I know ESO has them, but they pale in comparison to EQ's) are a thing of the past. Even if you did grind mobs, there's almost no downtime for the social side of things, and no areas really built into the game to allow for it, and like I said the XP seems so small it doesn't seem worth the time.
Anyway, I find it quite sad and depressing. ESO is a beautiful and really atmospheric game and I've discovered some incredible locations that would make the most incredible spots to hang out, but there are no reasons to spend more than a few minutes at these places.
The fastest way to level is the repeatable quests in Cyrodiil. Its a short circuit for 3 quests. Grinding mobs is rediculously slow as is doing dungeons.
Cyrodill would be your only other alternative, I'd think. For those claiming they'd like to grind mobs to 50...good luck with that. You'll be dead of natural causes before you make it. I've run around and tried my hand at exploring, and while this game does reward exploration and such, it doesn't reward it with much XP. And least not enough to level on. The same goes for grinding mobs.
Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski Just don't focus on leveling I suppose? I find it easy to play the game like a regular ESO game and just run around and do what ever. Follow the story bit and then get lost in side quest lines.
hard not to, when the PvP is locked behind a PvP grind wall of EXP.
Like PvP?
Well no PvP for you until you grind 10 levels in PvE...
I would not call it "grinding mobs" if i the game offers dungeons to farm in. It would be fun to go from Boss to Boss, clearing trash on the way.... having to use CC and a puller.
Guess i can dream about the social experience we had in EQ. I hope ESO will at least offer bearable PvE to reach PvP without calling it grinding. Questing for me is GRINDING in its purest form haha. I can not stand it, not even repeatable quests. I don't care for fast leveling, i just want a social experience while PLAYING. And leveling is part of playing, you know?
If i have to just quest, i could just as well play a (better) singleplayer and buy myself a maxed toon to pvp. Or i could try and get into shooter,... those don't have leveling, only pvp. But i really don't like em. No idea why lol.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
A wide-variety of interesting, well-written and challenging quests is to me more fun than just grinding mobs. For me, these criteria were met to different degrees in LoTRO, in TSW and to some extent in AoC. In ESO, that simply isn't the case for me.
When you get to the point where quests are boring and simple "run to map marker, click it and run back", then it just starts to feel like you're grinding quests rather than doing anything interesting or fulfilling. And between grinding quests and just grinding mobs / doing a dungeon, i'd rather do the latter. But that's a matter of personal preference.
"Read the quests and be immersed!" is a nice sentiment. but when quests are poorly written and don't really make sense with what's going on the world around, they do not entice one to read more and they actually take away from immersion.
How do you write quests that are interesting to people from age 16 to 80, Iqs of 70 to 160 and experience in MMORPGs of 0 to 15 years ?
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
A wide-variety of interesting, well-written and challenging quests is to me more fun than just grinding mobs. For me, these criteria were met to different degrees in LoTRO, in TSW and to some extent in AoC. In ESO, that simply isn't the case for me.
When you get to the point where quests are boring and simple "run to map marker, click it and run back", then it just starts to feel like you're grinding quests rather than doing anything interesting or fulfilling. And between grinding quests and just grinding mobs / doing a dungeon, i'd rather do the latter. But that's a matter of personal preference.
"Read the quests and be immersed!" is a nice sentiment. but when quests are poorly written and don't really make sense with what's going on the world around, they do not entice one to read more and they actually take away from immersion.
How do you write quests that are interesting to people from age 16 to 80, Iqs of 70 to 160 and experience in MMORPGs of 0 to 15 years ?
You can't. Simple as that.
So developer should try and please the broad masses with quests that most like. But also allow people like me to progress without quests. No point in trying to force all people of all ages into the same mold. Just not going to work out.
The Systems are there. We do have dungeons, pvp, quests and mobs. Just gotta make all those options viable.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
There's a lot of 'noise' about' quests where you need to kill 10 of x, but the truth is many people like killing and plundering in a mmorg, and kill x quests are part of that scene. Has put me off the game for the moment since I enjoy exploring and killing. Kill x quests with a good plot line should be there for diversity sake.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by LuposDavalte What the hell are you talking about the quests being awful?
I found most of the Aldmeri Dominion questline to be great when considered against other MMOs. I'd say it's almost on par with Secret World but with better voice acting and a more engaging combat system.
The quests are awful compared to what?
i don't think you will get an answer to that. it's easy to make blanket statements and say everything about the game is terrible.
It's not as if he/she is the only person ever to say the quests are lame though right?
I personally have read much feedback saying in game quests are indeed pretty lame. With many fetch this or kill 10 of this type quests except in this game there is apparently nothing but dead scenery during the walk to each quest. Walk 5 mins....see nothing on the way....kill one guy then head back to start point. How generic and meh is that?
If the dungeons are equally as generic it's no wonder most feedback suggests the PvE side of the game is very lacklustre. Sounds as if you disagree...great that's great for you your opinion is just that though and is no grounds to mock the opinion of others....
Driz
I haven't found a single kill 10 x. Any of the quests that need an item have them drop fairly easily in the right area and you only need to get the one. In my experience, these have been nothing like generic mmo quests.
I haven't found a single kill 10 x. Any of the quests that need an item have them drop fairly easily in the right area and you only need to get the one. In my experience, these have been nothing like generic mmo quests.
I haven't either, the quests have actually been a breath of fresh air for me into the questing game. I thought I was done with quest based leveling, but this game does what I thought wasn't possible for me in making questing fun again!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
So, today we logged in with a group of 4 player and wanted to test xping. Only Mainquest and mobgrinding / dungeons.
Sadly i have to say: Our attempt failed miserably, since the xp mobs give seems to be cut by 50% since last beta weekend. At level 5 we would already need 116 kills to level up. And monster density really is not exactly a strong point for eso... we where running around aimlessly more then anything else, since EVERY mob seems to be there for some kind of quest, and therefore constantly dead basically.
Also killing mobs of our level was no challenge at all. Actually not even Monster 6-8 level above us proved to be a challenge. But those monster give reduced xp reward for being "to high" lol. As if the low xp would need another "nerf".
So much for the "group" game in ESO. Can't wait to hear the "the group game starts at level xy!"... 3 of us already canceled their preorder now, so i guess the remaining guys will solo their way to pvp or max level to finally be able to work together. If endgame allows for usefull grouping that is.
Really sad panda here. Thinking about canceling as well, since i just can not see myself forcing myself trough the quests. Will try to force myself to pvp tho and see if leveling there is a possible solution.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski Just don't focus on leveling I suppose? I find it easy to play the game like a regular ESO game and just run around and do what ever. Follow the story bit and then get lost in side quest lines.
hard not to, when the PvP is locked behind a PvP grind wall of EXP.
Like PvP?
Well no PvP for you until you grind 10 levels in PvE...
What you going to do?
Grindwall?
Seriously?
It takes half a day... it's not like you have to wait to max level. It's freaking level 10... sheez.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Originally posted by Celcius Not possible. Have fun grinding veteran ranks without questing...
Thats the point. We won't quest, we wanted to come for the pvp. IF that works ok,... but the grind wall of pve is really annoying. And this is coming from someone that loves PvE and dungeons. Just not the waves of waves of meaningless quests.
Two of us are still subbed to EQ1 and farm some dungeons almost on a daily basis. Simply because it is damn fun, even after 15 Years of Everquest. Also it is rewarding and you get to know your own toon. The "run to x and talk to y quests" in ESO teach you nothing about your skills. :-(
Ignore my whining please. It just sucks to have high hopes and see them get smashed again. Right now i almost hope that i dislike the pvp as well, so i could get out. But frankly pvp still looks damn fun and daocish
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Comments
Really nice to see this topic going in the right direction without flamewars. Also nice to see so many people that agree and want social leveling back.
Testing in ESO showed that xp is given out equally to everyone hitting the mob. And it is NOT divided! Let's put some facts into this topic and show that there is an indicator for possible group xping.
Let's assume a mob gives 100xp.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
what if say me and you are in a group and i kill the mob and you just stand there without hitting it, do you still get the 110 xp?
Yes, no need to do anything if grouped up.
I guess that they put a limit on powerleveling tho. This could be abused for pushing a new toon otherwise. Like level difference is counted, or your level compared to the mobs level. This is speculation tho and i really don't care if it gets abused. It does help the social aspects... and god knows they are rare enough.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I, for one, do not miss camping mobs for hours on end just to gain a level. Having said that, if you want to level up by just grinding mob spawn for hours and hours, you could do that.
You make me like charity
As much as I would love to have the freedom to grind on mobs through the levels if I want to, it's just really not an option in MMOs anymore. I did a little test (only solo, mind you) during this weekend and the XP gain was absolutely terrible, well, I wasn't surprised.
The real fun of mob grinding in EQ is long gone (though hopefully it will be an option again in EQ Next), and I believe the biggest reason for that is due to the significant downtime required for meditating/regen (as the OP mentioned). That mechanic sounds like an awful idea in todays games, but back then it provided ample time to really interact and get to know the people you were grouped with that often lead to some unforgettable experiences and new friends. People just don't understand or can even imagine this concept today, which is really sad. Unfortunately WoW took things in the themepark direction and almost every MMO since has used WoW, rather than EQ as a template.
Social levelling, public dungeons etc (I know ESO has them, but they pale in comparison to EQ's) are a thing of the past. Even if you did grind mobs, there's almost no downtime for the social side of things, and no areas really built into the game to allow for it, and like I said the XP seems so small it doesn't seem worth the time.
Anyway, I find it quite sad and depressing. ESO is a beautiful and really atmospheric game and I've discovered some incredible locations that would make the most incredible spots to hang out, but there are no reasons to spend more than a few minutes at these places.
Cyrodill would be your only other alternative, I'd think. For those claiming they'd like to grind mobs to 50...good luck with that. You'll be dead of natural causes before you make it. I've run around and tried my hand at exploring, and while this game does reward exploration and such, it doesn't reward it with much XP. And least not enough to level on. The same goes for grinding mobs.
hard not to, when the PvP is locked behind a PvP grind wall of EXP.
Like PvP?
Well no PvP for you until you grind 10 levels in PvE...
What you going to do?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I would not call it "grinding mobs" if i the game offers dungeons to farm in. It would be fun to go from Boss to Boss, clearing trash on the way.... having to use CC and a puller.
Guess i can dream about the social experience we had in EQ. I hope ESO will at least offer bearable PvE to reach PvP without calling it grinding. Questing for me is GRINDING in its purest form haha. I can not stand it, not even repeatable quests. I don't care for fast leveling, i just want a social experience while PLAYING. And leveling is part of playing, you know?
If i have to just quest, i could just as well play a (better) singleplayer and buy myself a maxed toon to pvp. Or i could try and get into shooter,... those don't have leveling, only pvp. But i really don't like em. No idea why lol.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
How do you write quests that are interesting to people from age 16 to 80, Iqs of 70 to 160 and experience in MMORPGs of 0 to 15 years ?
You can't. Simple as that.
So developer should try and please the broad masses with quests that most like. But also allow people like me to progress without quests. No point in trying to force all people of all ages into the same mold. Just not going to work out.
The Systems are there. We do have dungeons, pvp, quests and mobs. Just gotta make all those options viable.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I haven't found a single kill 10 x. Any of the quests that need an item have them drop fairly easily in the right area and you only need to get the one. In my experience, these have been nothing like generic mmo quests.
I haven't either, the quests have actually been a breath of fresh air for me into the questing game. I thought I was done with quest based leveling, but this game does what I thought wasn't possible for me in making questing fun again!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
So, today we logged in with a group of 4 player and wanted to test xping. Only Mainquest and mobgrinding / dungeons.
Sadly i have to say: Our attempt failed miserably, since the xp mobs give seems to be cut by 50% since last beta weekend. At level 5 we would already need 116 kills to level up. And monster density really is not exactly a strong point for eso... we where running around aimlessly more then anything else, since EVERY mob seems to be there for some kind of quest, and therefore constantly dead basically.
Also killing mobs of our level was no challenge at all. Actually not even Monster 6-8 level above us proved to be a challenge. But those monster give reduced xp reward for being "to high" lol. As if the low xp would need another "nerf".
So much for the "group" game in ESO. Can't wait to hear the "the group game starts at level xy!"... 3 of us already canceled their preorder now, so i guess the remaining guys will solo their way to pvp or max level to finally be able to work together. If endgame allows for usefull grouping that is.
Really sad panda here. Thinking about canceling as well, since i just can not see myself forcing myself trough the quests. Will try to force myself to pvp tho and see if leveling there is a possible solution.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Grindwall?
Seriously?
It takes half a day... it's not like you have to wait to max level. It's freaking level 10... sheez.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Thats the point. We won't quest, we wanted to come for the pvp. IF that works ok,... but the grind wall of pve is really annoying. And this is coming from someone that loves PvE and dungeons. Just not the waves of waves of meaningless quests.
Two of us are still subbed to EQ1 and farm some dungeons almost on a daily basis. Simply because it is damn fun, even after 15 Years of Everquest. Also it is rewarding and you get to know your own toon. The "run to x and talk to y quests" in ESO teach you nothing about your skills. :-(
Ignore my whining please. It just sucks to have high hopes and see them get smashed again. Right now i almost hope that i dislike the pvp as well, so i could get out. But frankly pvp still looks damn fun and daocish
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?