Why would you play an elder scrolls game and not quest?
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Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
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Why would you play an elder scrolls game and not quest?
Perhaps he/she is 95% here for the PvP and just wants to hit max level and get cracking with that, without being forced to do hours and hours of generic quest lines in order to start having fun in PvP?
are you being serious? so grinding mobs mindlessly does have an impact on the game world? LOL
what kind of impact did it have in classic EQ other than to grind xp and loot?
For one, grinding in EQ was in an OPEN world. If your group camped Sebilis entrance, that spot was taken. People running by could see you and noticed "Person xy was there". At max level i already knew most of the people on the server, because i have seen them "somewhere". Also i have GROUPED with about everyone as well, since we had to TALK to the people and got in their groups to xp. That in itself is an aspect that got lost in gaming. And the number one reason i stopped playing MMOs alone completely.
Then you had your reputation. Not reputation listed in a statistic, but your REAL reputation. Some people just took your spots, but that was against the manners and the server CARED about what you did or what you did not. And the people remembered and some people had a hard time getting into any decent guild if they did not play nice.
You had opportunities to HELP people in trouble. You know, not a NPC in trouble, but real people dying to unplanned adds deep in a dungeon. You could help them save a 3 hour trip back to their corpse and make new friends.
All this was done while "mindlessly grinding mobs for xp". I call that socialization and also the number one reason i actually play MMOs. Sadly that changed so dramatically that barly anyone remembers how much fun and MEANING you could get out of your MMO back then.
Originally posted by LuposDavalte
What the hell are you talking about the quests being awful?
I found most of the Aldmeri Dominion questline to be great when considered against other MMOs. I'd say it's almost on par with Secret World but with better voice acting and a more engaging combat system.
The quests are awful compared to what?
I can't comment on the quests in ESO, since i have yet to read a single one. I simply click trough. Every quest that is designed for leveling feels meaningless if you compare it to the original Epic quests in Everquest that took months and rewarded you with something insane everyone wanted but not everyone could ever reach.
I do remember tho, before i addmitted that i am bored and burned out on questin in general, that i also made blank statements on quests being awful in a new game. I simply did not know any better and made the game responsible for it. Now i can admit: no game will please me with quests. I hate quests for leveling, no matter how good they are. I do greatly enjoy meaninful quests that serve a purpose and actually take some time, effort and TEAMWORK and then reward something accordinly tho.
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
Why would you want to do this?
Why would you play an elder scrolls game and not quest?
For one i don't care about the name of the game at all. I am a fan of ES, don't get me wrong. But i don't have the illusion that ES online can be as good as the single player games. Beliving otherwise only means you lack experience with how MMOs work. That being said, i hate quests. I also hate them in singleplayer ES games for that matter and really consider not buying any games of that sort in the future.
For ESO tho i am here because the PVP looks like DAoC and i really want a good pvp experience again. The main reason tho: My GF feels the same. She wants pvp, she plays ESO... and we have been looking for a MMO to play together again since the beta of WOW. We finally found one that we both agree on that it COULD be a game we play for more then a month. Of corse that remains to be seen, but we do have hope still.
Also: Read my answers again, we plan on playing as a MULTIPLAYER group. And questing, even for those that like it, simply sucks in a team of 2-6 people. We want to talk about how we like our toons, what we plan on doing, using, crafting ect. on teamspeak and not go like "oh, now we have to kill 5 rabits and steal their babys... anyone know where they are?" or "Kill 10 of those... uhm... oh just got an update, guess you found them. Go on, ill wait here".
Originally posted by ImperialSun
Perhaps he/she is 95% here for the PvP and just wants to hit max level and get cracking with that, without being forced to do hours and hours of generic quest lines in order to start having fun in PvP?
Driz
PvP really is our reasoning. But we also want groupplay in PvE. We don't want to skip PvE! We don't want to only be doing the boring parts of it, but have fun on the WAY to highlevel, not starting at highlevel.
Edit:
Also we are here because it is a sub game. We hate FTP more then quests and phasing ;-)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Why would you play an elder scrolls game and not quest?
Well, in playing an Elder Scrolls game - let's say SKyrim - pretty much every single quest lead you to a 30-60 minute dungeon (or fort or some other combat thing to conquer). In ESO, the vast majority of the quests lead you to a 1 minute combat and you're done.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Also: Read my answers again, we plan on playing as a MULTIPLAYER group. And questing, even for those that like it, simply sucks in a team of 2-6 people. We want to talk about how we like our toons, what we plan on doing, using, crafting ect. on teamspeak and not go like "oh, now we have to kill 5 rabits and steal their babys... anyone know where they are?" or "Kill 10 of those... uhm... oh just got an update, guess you found them. Go on, ill wait here".
Well, once you hit 15-ish, the first instances open up, you can grind those i suppose. Will be good loot too.
That's what i did in Rift, since i preferred to level via doing group stuff over the mind-numbing generic questing. At SOME point you'll have to come back and do those quests that give skyshards, but that can be later on when you have a horse and can sprint forever.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by Jockan Also wondering the same thing. What level is the first open world dungeon? I just want to level from doing dungeon / xp groups with other players and maybe quest on the side when I feel like it.
Every open world dungeon I've seen so far has been absolute garbage. They've been designed JUST LIKE instanced dungeons, except you just zerg through and then the boss spawns at the end, not like proper open dungeons.
There are dungeons, then there are "dungeons." The former are everywhere, where folks usually zerg through and fight a mini boss to get the exploration exp. But each area has at least one "public dungeon" with quests inside and boss mobs that WILL shred solo players that just run in without any backup. The final boss of these have to be sought out, are a bit out of the way and have mechanics that will kill people who decide not to react to it.
Exactly what I am looking for. I will do some questing but doing dungeon groups is my favorite thing to do in mmos.
Originally posted by ImperialSun Originally posted by baphametOriginally posted by LuposDavalteWhat the hell are you talking about the quests being awful?I found most of the Aldmeri Dominion questline to be great when considered against other MMOs. I'd say it's almost on par with Secret World but with better voice acting and a more engaging combat system.The quests are awful compared to what?
i don't think you will get an answer to that. it's easy to make blanket statements and say everything about the game is terrible.
It's not as if he/she is the only person ever to say the quests are lame though right?
I personally have read much feedback saying in game quests are indeed pretty lame. With many fetch this or kill 10 of this type quests except in this game there is apparently nothing but dead scenery during the walk to each quest. Walk 5 mins....see nothing on the way....kill one guy then head back to start point. How generic and meh is that?
If the dungeons are equally as generic it's no wonder most feedback suggests the PvE side of the game is very lacklustre. Sounds as if you disagree...great that's great for you your opinion is just that though and is no grounds to mock the opinion of others....
Driz
i was referring to the guy that says everything about the game is terrible, it's blanket statements like that that cause me to ignore those opinions.
and yes i mock anyone that says everything about the game is terrible lol
if you believe that you are either trolling or just not very realistic with your expectations of mmo's in general.
Originally posted by Jockan Also wondering the same thing. What level is the first open world dungeon? I just want to level from doing dungeon / xp groups with other players and maybe quest on the side when I feel like it.
Every open world dungeon I've seen so far has been absolute garbage. They've been designed JUST LIKE instanced dungeons, except you just zerg through and then the boss spawns at the end, not like proper open dungeons.
That sounds sad,...
Well, to make it perfectly clear: I hate meaningless quests and i don't care for medicore story in a MMO either. I will be leveling with my GF and we definitly want to level together. Sadly questing with two people really has it's own issues. Every now and then we clicked trough the "talk to x, then y then z and collect some sand sacks on the way"-quests, just to notice how she picked option b and i picked a, leaving us in differend phases. (Did i mention i hate phasing even more then questing lol)
If dungeons really are like instances in ESO (and we preordered because we saw reports of the opposite), then only pvp can save us i guess. Missing out on Quests that give skill points could suck in the long run tho. Is there a pattern on which quests provide points? Like only mainquests? Missing out on skill points that can only be gotten this way really means we will have to quest.
I'm in the same boat, I really struggle to make it through two hours of meaningless, riskless questing. Being told what to do in a supposed virtual world is pretty annoying. I also don't need to be told a story in a virtual world MMO game, I will make my own. I like PvE a lot, maybe Cyro has PvE opportunities that the other areas don't have? Higher risk and then more reward.
I hate quest grinding, really. I just want to relax and do a few levels... not running around and looking for quests that are done in 30sec anyways, always trying to figure out what to do next and what to click now ect.
Really loved the old school EQ leveling. Kiting mobs, farming a dungeon for xp. XP-Groups where the best social experience i ever had in MMOs and actually never had again after EQ. Nowadays there are no downtimes that make room for talking, only stressfull rushing or questgrinding *sadface*.
Anyways: Is it possible at all in ESO, or will i have to do all those quests for skill points?
No... its definately not that kind of game... Same goes for the upcomming wildstar... Your best bet is wayting and hoping for EQnext.... Tough even that game will have lots and lots of quests
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22 You would rather mob grind than do quests? To each their own I suppose.
Why would you not?
WIth combat "grind" as your actually playing one of the core aspects of the game. The quest "grind" is much more of a grind due to quests being artificial things to do that have no impact what so ever in the game world.
If you consider killing mobs in a video game repetitive and boring, then your in the wrong hobby and shows that you actually don't know what you want. Its similar to saying you want a song that were its written ABCD or non-repetitive, yet I can tell you that you will not like a song that does not repeat its melody. The other factor as well is that camping actually had an impact in the game even if a minor/temporary one.
If a group of people were already set up you had to find another place/share/steal their camp. The players at the camp before actually impacted your game play experience, unlike questing which is done almost completely solo and once completed is never done again, as well as no one knowing if you even quested save for a game that has achievements telling everyone you have.
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
Actually read the quest text and immerse yourself into what you're doing. Don't give us your weak ass example of grinding static mobs affecting other people's play session being a positive thing. That's all you've got? Usually I see this conversation going the other way, meaning I've never actually seen someone post about actually wanting to mob grind. I've seen people complaining about boring quests or lack of variety. But, never complaining about wanting to mob grind. Maybe we're seeing the greater de-evolution of the MMO gamer here. I thought it was bad enough people couldn't be bothered with quest text. Now you guys are taking an extra step and ignoring the quests all together? Screw quests! I aint ' got time for that!
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
Actually read the quest text and immerse yourself into what you're doing. Don't give us your weak ass example of grinding static mobs affecting other people's play session being a positive thing. That's all you've got? Usually I see this conversation going the other way, meaning I've never actually seen someone post about actually wanting to mob grind. I've seen people complaining about boring quests or lack of variety. But, never complaining about wanting to mob grind. Maybe we're seeing the greater de-evolution of the MMO gamer here. I thought it was bad enough people couldn't be bothered with quest text. Now you guys are taking an extra step and ignoring the quests all together? Screw quests! I aint ' got time for that!
Fascinating...
It's more about not wanting to be told what to do, for me. Also the no open world PvP risk makes everything 100% safe and boring after playing games where wandering the open world is a challenge in itself. MMO's shouldn't be about being told a story. This is a world and I should be thrown to the wolves to find my way. Maybe you like your hand held much more than we do, I understand there are lots of gamers like this.
The short answer is no, not from what I've seen in the beta. The quests are fewer and more interesting than in most MMORPGs, and are usually found exploring rather than packed together in a hub, but it's still a quest-driven game where everyone's too busy chasing their quest marker to talk to anyone ever. You can level by grinding mobs, but the game isn't designed for it and you won't have a good time. It'll be like grinding in WoW, not EQ/AC1/AO etc. Maybe later on in the game it might get better if grinding mobs ends up being the optimal way of doing things, but for now there's nothing like that (I put 10 hours into the beta).
The closest I've gotten to the old group grinding feel was Path of Exile on Hardcore, but that's definitely not for everyone.
I will try and get to 15 and check out those dungeons. Most likely there will be a wiki on which quests offer skill points later on, since quite a few peeps prefer the dungeon / social style over soloplay. If i am lucky someone even does a "walktrough" on how to get over the quest points the fastest way lol.
Questing for us (and i am not the guy that hates them the most in our team haha) really is annoying and we really want to avoid it wherever possible. We do realize that the current MMO-Trends don't favor us, but so does the payment model of most games. Times will change, i hope :-) Meanwhile we have to take what we can get.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
The quests are fewer and more interesting than in most MMORPGs
Not that this is the point of the thread, but this hasn't been my experience at all. There are quite a few quests and they're all super short and super simple. Most quests I found out in the wilderness were of the "go into this area with 5 mobs and kill 1 of them" variety. (In addition to the regular "collect 3 of this" ones.)
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22 You would rather mob grind than do quests? To each their own I suppose.
Why would you not?
WIth combat "grind" as your actually playing one of the core aspects of the game. The quest "grind" is much more of a grind due to quests being artificial things to do that have no impact what so ever in the game world.
If you consider killing mobs in a video game repetitive and boring, then your in the wrong hobby and shows that you actually don't know what you want. Its similar to saying you want a song that were its written ABCD or non-repetitive, yet I can tell you that you will not like a song that does not repeat its melody. The other factor as well is that camping actually had an impact in the game even if a minor/temporary one.
If a group of people were already set up you had to find another place/share/steal their camp. The players at the camp before actually impacted your game play experience, unlike questing which is done almost completely solo and once completed is never done again, as well as no one knowing if you even quested save for a game that has achievements telling everyone you have.
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
Actually read the quest text and immerse yourself into what you're doing. Don't give us your weak ass example of grinding static mobs affecting other people's play session being a positive thing. That's all you've got? Usually I see this conversation going the other way, meaning I've never actually seen someone post about actually wanting to mob grind. I've seen people complaining about boring quests or lack of variety. But, never complaining about wanting to mob grind. Maybe we're seeing the greater de-evolution of the MMO gamer here. I thought it was bad enough people couldn't be bothered with quest text. Now you guys are taking an extra step and ignoring the quests all together? Screw quests! I aint ' got time for that!
Fascinating...
I also think grinding is better, and it's not all that strange. I've played quest-based MMORPGs so much that I no longer see the variety you're talking about. To me each quest is a marker on my map with exp and item rewards attached. The dialogue bores me to tears and I always skip it, despite enjoying singleplayer RPGs a lot (my all time favorite is Planescape: Torment, which is extremely heavy on dialogue). I think it's because I know it isn't my story, and that the quest will inevitably lead to 100 exp and a bronze shortsword rather than impacting the world in any real way.
Once you reach this point there's really not that big of a difference between grinding mobs and playing "Whack-a-Quest"; one has you repeatedly killing mobs in an area and the other has you following an arrow, clicking npcs and objects and killing mobs in areas. Technically there is more variety in the latter, but it's not a whole lot more interesting.
What really separates the two is the social factor: group grinding can be a great social experience, while quest grinding usually isn't. Playing Whack-a-Quest with a group is usually unnecessary (the content is easy), slower (you need to coordinate what quests you are doing), rarer (you need to go out of your way to find someone to quest with) and often frustrating (you don't all have the same quests). Grinding is best done in a group since you gain more exp, there's downtime (respawns) which allows socializing, and it's usually pretty easy and painless to get going since you really just need to go somewhere and start grinding.
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
A wide-variety of interesting, well-written and challenging quests is to me more fun than just grinding mobs. For me, these criteria were met to different degrees in LoTRO, in TSW and to some extent in AoC. In ESO, that simply isn't the case for me.
When you get to the point where quests are boring and simple "run to map marker, click it and run back", then it just starts to feel like you're grinding quests rather than doing anything interesting or fulfilling. And between grinding quests and just grinding mobs / doing a dungeon, i'd rather do the latter. But that's a matter of personal preference.
"Read the quests and be immersed!" is a nice sentiment. but when quests are poorly written and don't really make sense with what's going on the world around, they do not entice one to read more and they actually take away from immersion.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I agree with everything you said, couldn't have phrased it better.
I never read a single quest I been taking, since I do't care why I need to run 5 minutes to collect 10 apples and then run 2 minutes and kill 2 bettles and then run another 3 minutes to quench 5 fires etc etc.
Questing or killing mobs is the same to me, a mean to reach max level and I admit have some fun on the way up (but that fun is not reading the quests). The one thing I would highlights is the social aspects of real open dungeans, if done right they create real oppurtunities for social interaction between players.
This is what I would like someone to comeup with a really cool system where the open realm pvp actually is meaningful (other than bragging about having a fort, or capturing the flag for the bazillionth time) and has impact on the pve (and pvp) aspects of the game.
I have only gotten skill points for the MAIN quest line up to this point.
Is this true for the rest of the game? If so, that would totally rock. I am fine with a mainquest that tells a story. Our team could just do the mainquest and fill the xp gaps with dungeons and pvp.
So, anyone found a quest, APART from the main story, that gives skill points?
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22 You would rather mob grind than do quests? To each their own I suppose.
Why would you not?
WIth combat "grind" as your actually playing one of the core aspects of the game. The quest "grind" is much more of a grind due to quests being artificial things to do that have no impact what so ever in the game world.
If you consider killing mobs in a video game repetitive and boring, then your in the wrong hobby and shows that you actually don't know what you want. Its similar to saying you want a song that were its written ABCD or non-repetitive, yet I can tell you that you will not like a song that does not repeat its melody. The other factor as well is that camping actually had an impact in the game even if a minor/temporary one.
If a group of people were already set up you had to find another place/share/steal their camp. The players at the camp before actually impacted your game play experience, unlike questing which is done almost completely solo and once completed is never done again, as well as no one knowing if you even quested save for a game that has achievements telling everyone you have.
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
Actually read the quest text and immerse yourself into what you're doing. Don't give us your weak ass example of grinding static mobs affecting other people's play session being a positive thing. That's all you've got? Usually I see this conversation going the other way, meaning I've never actually seen someone post about actually wanting to mob grind. I've seen people complaining about boring quests or lack of variety. But, never complaining about wanting to mob grind. Maybe we're seeing the greater de-evolution of the MMO gamer here. I thought it was bad enough people couldn't be bothered with quest text. Now you guys are taking an extra step and ignoring the quests all together? Screw quests! I aint ' got time for that!
Fascinating...
The core game play of MMORPG's today is killing stuff not running around like postman pat. Content that revolves around killing or gives pretext to killing is what questing should be aiming for. Simplified enough for you? If you want to talk smack over it, then I challenge you to deny that all other ESO games are more 'combat' and less 'look for next arrow'.
Originally posted by Arataki Being in a group gives exp bonus, so while solo grinding might take a long while, doing so in a group should be viable. Problem is, of course, finding like minded folks to grind with you.
"XP-Groups where the best social experience i ever had in MMOs and actually never had again after EQ" said the OP and I agree. People can take their solo questing and shove it. The MMO part of the RPG experience shouldn't just be me seeing a bunch of folks soling.
If IF it is true that bonus xp comes from groups - then sign me up - because all quest chains do is isolate a player from everyone else who is potentially on a different step.
the problems with the origin of this post is this is for al intent and purposes a PREQUEL so theres a lot of lore in the quests you or at least I as a eso fan would want to be immersed in through the quests. that being said it sounds like you want to treat the game like a sandbox. there are elemtns in the open worl where you could in the smallest definition just farm mobs craft and do open world dungeons occasionally grouping to do the wvw pvp and still never touch a quest. but if that's what you want why stop playing skyrim to play eso?
Originally posted by LisaFlexy22 You would rather mob grind than do quests? To each their own I suppose.
Every day of the week. Mob grinding allows me to go where I want and experience what I want, and encourages me to group up.
It's an honest grind.
Quests insult my intelligence and drag me around by the balls and making grouping nearly impossible.
Finally people who see it like me.
In todays MMOs the way quest are, other players are just in your way. to me thats not questing.
personally i have more fun in games searching the land for the perfect grind spot that me and some others can group up and kill some mobs, chat, hang out.
instead of constantly stairing at a map looking wich npc we need to talk to next and they call that a quest.
Comments
Why would you want to do this?
Why would you play an elder scrolls game and not quest?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Perhaps he/she is 95% here for the PvP and just wants to hit max level and get cracking with that, without being forced to do hours and hours of generic quest lines in order to start having fun in PvP?
Driz
For one, grinding in EQ was in an OPEN world. If your group camped Sebilis entrance, that spot was taken. People running by could see you and noticed "Person xy was there". At max level i already knew most of the people on the server, because i have seen them "somewhere". Also i have GROUPED with about everyone as well, since we had to TALK to the people and got in their groups to xp. That in itself is an aspect that got lost in gaming. And the number one reason i stopped playing MMOs alone completely.
Then you had your reputation. Not reputation listed in a statistic, but your REAL reputation. Some people just took your spots, but that was against the manners and the server CARED about what you did or what you did not. And the people remembered and some people had a hard time getting into any decent guild if they did not play nice.
You had opportunities to HELP people in trouble. You know, not a NPC in trouble, but real people dying to unplanned adds deep in a dungeon. You could help them save a 3 hour trip back to their corpse and make new friends.
All this was done while "mindlessly grinding mobs for xp". I call that socialization and also the number one reason i actually play MMOs. Sadly that changed so dramatically that barly anyone remembers how much fun and MEANING you could get out of your MMO back then.
I can't comment on the quests in ESO, since i have yet to read a single one. I simply click trough. Every quest that is designed for leveling feels meaningless if you compare it to the original Epic quests in Everquest that took months and rewarded you with something insane everyone wanted but not everyone could ever reach.
I do remember tho, before i addmitted that i am bored and burned out on questin in general, that i also made blank statements on quests being awful in a new game. I simply did not know any better and made the game responsible for it. Now i can admit: no game will please me with quests. I hate quests for leveling, no matter how good they are. I do greatly enjoy meaninful quests that serve a purpose and actually take some time, effort and TEAMWORK and then reward something accordinly tho.
For one i don't care about the name of the game at all. I am a fan of ES, don't get me wrong. But i don't have the illusion that ES online can be as good as the single player games. Beliving otherwise only means you lack experience with how MMOs work. That being said, i hate quests. I also hate them in singleplayer ES games for that matter and really consider not buying any games of that sort in the future.
For ESO tho i am here because the PVP looks like DAoC and i really want a good pvp experience again. The main reason tho: My GF feels the same. She wants pvp, she plays ESO... and we have been looking for a MMO to play together again since the beta of WOW. We finally found one that we both agree on that it COULD be a game we play for more then a month. Of corse that remains to be seen, but we do have hope still.
Also: Read my answers again, we plan on playing as a MULTIPLAYER group. And questing, even for those that like it, simply sucks in a team of 2-6 people. We want to talk about how we like our toons, what we plan on doing, using, crafting ect. on teamspeak and not go like "oh, now we have to kill 5 rabits and steal their babys... anyone know where they are?" or "Kill 10 of those... uhm... oh just got an update, guess you found them. Go on, ill wait here".
PvP really is our reasoning. But we also want groupplay in PvE. We don't want to skip PvE! We don't want to only be doing the boring parts of it, but have fun on the WAY to highlevel, not starting at highlevel.
Edit:
Also we are here because it is a sub game. We hate FTP more then quests and phasing ;-)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Well, in playing an Elder Scrolls game - let's say SKyrim - pretty much every single quest lead you to a 30-60 minute dungeon (or fort or some other combat thing to conquer). In ESO, the vast majority of the quests lead you to a 1 minute combat and you're done.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Well, once you hit 15-ish, the first instances open up, you can grind those i suppose. Will be good loot too.
That's what i did in Rift, since i preferred to level via doing group stuff over the mind-numbing generic questing. At SOME point you'll have to come back and do those quests that give skyshards, but that can be later on when you have a horse and can sprint forever.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Exactly what I am looking for. I will do some questing but doing dungeon groups is my favorite thing to do in mmos.
Looking forward to this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUMjVllMeQ&index=4&list=PLgc0uCpa8HTx4FNdbG7AhmGOoFonAtZLd
It's not as if he/she is the only person ever to say the quests are lame though right?
I personally have read much feedback saying in game quests are indeed pretty lame. With many fetch this or kill 10 of this type quests except in this game there is apparently nothing but dead scenery during the walk to each quest. Walk 5 mins....see nothing on the way....kill one guy then head back to start point. How generic and meh is that?
If the dungeons are equally as generic it's no wonder most feedback suggests the PvE side of the game is very lacklustre. Sounds as if you disagree...great that's great for you
your opinion is just that though and is no grounds to mock the opinion of others....
Driz
i was referring to the guy that says everything about the game is terrible, it's blanket statements like that that cause me to ignore those opinions.
and yes i mock anyone that says everything about the game is terrible lol
if you believe that you are either trolling or just not very realistic with your expectations of mmo's in general.
I'm in the same boat, I really struggle to make it through two hours of meaningless, riskless questing. Being told what to do in a supposed virtual world is pretty annoying. I also don't need to be told a story in a virtual world MMO game, I will make my own. I like PvE a lot, maybe Cyro has PvE opportunities that the other areas don't have? Higher risk and then more reward.
No... its definately not that kind of game... Same goes for the upcomming wildstar... Your best bet is wayting and hoping for EQnext.... Tough even that game will have lots and lots of quests
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
This confuses me. Someone is actually trying to explain how mob grinding is more exciting than quests? Did I wake up in Bizarro World or something? How is doing a wide variety of quests more exciting than killing a mob five thousand times?
Actually read the quest text and immerse yourself into what you're doing. Don't give us your weak ass example of grinding static mobs affecting other people's play session being a positive thing. That's all you've got? Usually I see this conversation going the other way, meaning I've never actually seen someone post about actually wanting to mob grind. I've seen people complaining about boring quests or lack of variety. But, never complaining about wanting to mob grind. Maybe we're seeing the greater de-evolution of the MMO gamer here. I thought it was bad enough people couldn't be bothered with quest text. Now you guys are taking an extra step and ignoring the quests all together? Screw quests! I aint ' got time for that!
Fascinating...
It's more about not wanting to be told what to do, for me. Also the no open world PvP risk makes everything 100% safe and boring after playing games where wandering the open world is a challenge in itself. MMO's shouldn't be about being told a story. This is a world and I should be thrown to the wolves to find my way. Maybe you like your hand held much more than we do, I understand there are lots of gamers like this.
The short answer is no, not from what I've seen in the beta. The quests are fewer and more interesting than in most MMORPGs, and are usually found exploring rather than packed together in a hub, but it's still a quest-driven game where everyone's too busy chasing their quest marker to talk to anyone ever. You can level by grinding mobs, but the game isn't designed for it and you won't have a good time. It'll be like grinding in WoW, not EQ/AC1/AO etc. Maybe later on in the game it might get better if grinding mobs ends up being the optimal way of doing things, but for now there's nothing like that (I put 10 hours into the beta).
The closest I've gotten to the old group grinding feel was Path of Exile on Hardcore, but that's definitely not for everyone.
Thanks for all the replys.
I will try and get to 15 and check out those dungeons. Most likely there will be a wiki on which quests offer skill points later on, since quite a few peeps prefer the dungeon / social style over soloplay. If i am lucky someone even does a "walktrough" on how to get over the quest points the fastest way lol.
Questing for us (and i am not the guy that hates them the most in our team haha) really is annoying and we really want to avoid it wherever possible. We do realize that the current MMO-Trends don't favor us, but so does the payment model of most games. Times will change, i hope :-) Meanwhile we have to take what we can get.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Not that this is the point of the thread, but this hasn't been my experience at all. There are quite a few quests and they're all super short and super simple. Most quests I found out in the wilderness were of the "go into this area with 5 mobs and kill 1 of them" variety. (In addition to the regular "collect 3 of this" ones.)
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I also think grinding is better, and it's not all that strange. I've played quest-based MMORPGs so much that I no longer see the variety you're talking about. To me each quest is a marker on my map with exp and item rewards attached. The dialogue bores me to tears and I always skip it, despite enjoying singleplayer RPGs a lot (my all time favorite is Planescape: Torment, which is extremely heavy on dialogue). I think it's because I know it isn't my story, and that the quest will inevitably lead to 100 exp and a bronze shortsword rather than impacting the world in any real way.
Once you reach this point there's really not that big of a difference between grinding mobs and playing "Whack-a-Quest"; one has you repeatedly killing mobs in an area and the other has you following an arrow, clicking npcs and objects and killing mobs in areas. Technically there is more variety in the latter, but it's not a whole lot more interesting.
What really separates the two is the social factor: group grinding can be a great social experience, while quest grinding usually isn't. Playing Whack-a-Quest with a group is usually unnecessary (the content is easy), slower (you need to coordinate what quests you are doing), rarer (you need to go out of your way to find someone to quest with) and often frustrating (you don't all have the same quests). Grinding is best done in a group since you gain more exp, there's downtime (respawns) which allows socializing, and it's usually pretty easy and painless to get going since you really just need to go somewhere and start grinding.
A wide-variety of interesting, well-written and challenging quests is to me more fun than just grinding mobs. For me, these criteria were met to different degrees in LoTRO, in TSW and to some extent in AoC. In ESO, that simply isn't the case for me.
When you get to the point where quests are boring and simple "run to map marker, click it and run back", then it just starts to feel like you're grinding quests rather than doing anything interesting or fulfilling. And between grinding quests and just grinding mobs / doing a dungeon, i'd rather do the latter. But that's a matter of personal preference.
"Read the quests and be immersed!" is a nice sentiment. but when quests are poorly written and don't really make sense with what's going on the world around, they do not entice one to read more and they actually take away from immersion.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I agree with everything you said, couldn't have phrased it better.
I never read a single quest I been taking, since I do't care why I need to run 5 minutes to collect 10 apples and then run 2 minutes and kill 2 bettles and then run another 3 minutes to quench 5 fires etc etc.
Questing or killing mobs is the same to me, a mean to reach max level and I admit have some fun on the way up (but that fun is not reading the quests). The one thing I would highlights is the social aspects of real open dungeans, if done right they create real oppurtunities for social interaction between players.
This is what I would like someone to comeup with a really cool system where the open realm pvp actually is meaningful (other than bragging about having a fort, or capturing the flag for the bazillionth time) and has impact on the pve (and pvp) aspects of the game.
I have only gotten skill points for the MAIN quest line up to this point.
Is this true for the rest of the game? If so, that would totally rock. I am fine with a mainquest that tells a story. Our team could just do the mainquest and fill the xp gaps with dungeons and pvp.
So, anyone found a quest, APART from the main story, that gives skill points?
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
The core game play of MMORPG's today is killing stuff not running around like postman pat. Content that revolves around killing or gives pretext to killing is what questing should be aiming for. Simplified enough for you? If you want to talk smack over it, then I challenge you to deny that all other ESO games are more 'combat' and less 'look for next arrow'.
Every day of the week. Mob grinding allows me to go where I want and experience what I want, and encourages me to group up.
It's an honest grind.
Quests insult my intelligence and drag me around by the balls and making grouping nearly impossible.
"XP-Groups where the best social experience i ever had in MMOs and actually never had again after EQ" said the OP and I agree. People can take their solo questing and shove it. The MMO part of the RPG experience shouldn't just be me seeing a bunch of folks soling.
If IF it is true that bonus xp comes from groups - then sign me up - because all quest chains do is isolate a player from everyone else who is potentially on a different step.
so say we all
Yes.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Finally people who see it like me.
In todays MMOs the way quest are, other players are just in your way. to me thats not questing.
personally i have more fun in games searching the land for the perfect grind spot that me and some others can group up and kill some mobs, chat, hang out.
instead of constantly stairing at a map looking wich npc we need to talk to next and they call that a quest.