Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Why i think PvP only does not work

24

Comments

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,792
    Originally posted by DrDwarf

    How much non consensual pvp happens in the real world when an army rolls onto the borders of your country ?

     

    You keep posting this nonsense... when exactly is it OK for a soldier to kill people outside of a war zone?

     

    Cyrodiil = war zone... everywhere else, it's not... simple.

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TechnohicTechnohic Member Posts: 148

    Is there anything keeping them from leaving Cyrodiil to go back and collect some shards and run some dungeons?  

     

    Seems to me, you can build a character with all the passives you want, and enough actives/ultimate to fill out bars for 2 weapons with less than 100 skill points.  Might be some builds that would need more, and there is the luxury of having some extras you can swap in and out for what you are doing, but so long as you fill those 2 bars and have as many passives that you could actually make use of from having stuff equipped, you should be alright.  Probably not the fastest way to go about doing it though.  

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,624
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

     

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    its actually quite simple.... most the skillpoints you aquire trough PvE... Quests and exploration

     

    So everyone that aims to jump to ten and do strictly PvP from there on, don´t tell us we didn´t tell you...

    Except, you can gain skillpoints in PvP through more than just skyshards. Things like capturing specific keeps & such will also yield skill points. There's also quite a few PvE quests within the PvP zone.

    Will it be faster to farm skillpoints outside of PvP? Most likely yes, as you can both lvl and get skillpoints faster in PvE, especially once the rest of the zones become available.

    However, also keep inmind that if all you care about is PvP, then that rules out at least 100+ skillpoints automatically for you. You aren't going to be crafting, and there are also a good number of skills that are better suited for PvE than PvP (for example Cleave, in the 2 hander tree). This means that even though you might not be getting skillpoints qutie as fast, you also need far less skillpoints to be viable in PvP if that's your focus.

    It's definitely debatable as to how this all balances out. However, once u also take into consideration realm rewards for PvP, it seems like doing PvP only will definitely be viable. You will probably be at an early disadvantage compared to other players, but I can definitely see that changing before to long once you spend some time in the PvP zone and get passed the earlier lvls.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

    Tell that to planetside 1 & 2. They may not be fantasy, but they are most definitely pvp-only. There's also games like Darkfall, but that's a little more debatable, depending on how much you wanna focus on semantics & technicallities.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,735
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

     

     

    Well I guess that could happen in games with pve and pvp gear, idk I haven't played one of those in years. 

     

    I think the hallmark of mmorpgs and rpgs in general is character development. Before anything else, there's character generation and stats. PvP and PVE came later as a means to progress your character.  

  • PyatraPyatra Member Posts: 644

    Back on the actual topic.  I believe there will be some PVE that has to be done, especially for veteran ranks.  So everyone is going to have to at least have a little taste of the other.  I have will have to agree with OP, PVP only in ESO seems like you will limit yourself severely in certain ways.  Also Mages guild requires actual exploration and finding lore books.  Meteor... yeah, I have a feeling that the ultimate from Mage's guild will be worth it to a PVP player to explore a small chunk of PVE.

    Smiley Face Planet    Free Desktop  HD Wallpaper

     

    Edit: Just because I like saying it since FFVII..... METEOR!

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199

    This is hysterical and sad.

     

    DAoC was roaring along as the second most popular MMO on the market until Mythic did one thing. They launched Trials of Atlantis. This FORCED PvP players to grind and do PvE raiding in order to compete in RvR. It made EVERYONE quit.

     

    Now they've done it again with TESO. Wow. I never thought someone formerly at Mythic would be that dumb.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,792
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

    Tell that to planetside 1 & 2. They may not be fantasy, but they are most definitely pvp-only. There's also games like Darkfall, but that's a little more debatable, depending on how much you wanna focus on semantics & technicallities.

    And that's exactly why PS2 doesn't feel much like an MMORPG. PS2 is an MMOFPS - nothing wrong with that, it's still a good game, but ESO is an MMORPG and that genre always includes PVE... I wish Mark Jacobs and CU well but it better have the best PVP ever or they will only get as few players as DF has.

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

     

     

    Well I guess that could happen in games with pve and pvp gear, idk I haven't played one of those in years. 

     

    I think the hallmark of mmorpgs and rpgs in general is character development. Before anything else, there's character generation and stats. PvP and PVE came later as a means to progress your character.  

    Planetside 1 and 2 don't have PvE.

     

    And Camelot Unchained WILL have PvE, it just won't be forced. Monsters will still exist in the world for crafting purposes and as gate keepers, they just aren't the focus of the game, nor do they drop epic loot.

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

    Tell that to planetside 1 & 2. They may not be fantasy, but they are most definitely pvp-only. There's also games like Darkfall, but that's a little more debatable, depending on how much you wanna focus on semantics & technicallities.

    And that's exactly why PS2 doesn't feel much like an MMORPG. PS2 is an MMOFPS - nothing wrong with that, it's still a good game, but ESO is an MMORPG and that genre always includes PVE... I wish Mark Jacobs and CU well but it better have the best PVP ever or they will only get as few players as DF has.

    Darkfall actually has some pretty fantastic PvE. The mob AI is some of the best in the business, and the few dungeons they have are way WAAAY beyond anything in WoW and Rift. Shifting walls, low light requiring torches, monsters guarding bridges, traps, ect. Lack of PvE is NOT why Darkfall only has 30k subscribers.

    And PS2 has just as many RPG features as an MMORPG. You could call it either one, and still be right. And CU ALSO has a lot going for it aside from PvP. Their housing and crafting system (which is extremely like Landmark, but came out before Landmark), for one thing.

  • Saxx0nSaxx0n PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.Member UncommonPosts: 999

    Most people will have no problem running thru pve for loots and skill points. I for one will have a blast taking my time enjoying the pve. i mean it is really only designed to be run thru a few times. There will be no value in grinding it.

     

    Then I will migrate to cyrodil and begin ripping peoples faces off in long term end game play.

     

    Of course this is only after I have determined that pvp cheat mods are not allowed in game and then I will be purchasing this product and willing to sub.

  • ZadawnZadawn Member UncommonPosts: 670
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    I hope that PvP will have rewards that will give great advantages in PVE and vice versa. The developers put a lot of effort into making this game so you can enjoy it all. Don't try to split games in two or more and then complain. This is not aimed at you specifically, just in general.


  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    I think if your build is focused enough, the lack of flexibility isn't going to be as big as an issue, but you will be behind the curve for a while, until you finish your build.  

     

     

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    This is hysterical and sad.

     

    DAoC was roaring along as the second most popular MMO on the market until Mythic did one thing. They launched Trials of Atlantis. This FORCED PvP players to grind and do PvE raiding in order to compete in RvR. It made EVERYONE quit.

     

    Now they've done it again with TESO. Wow. I never thought someone formerly at Mythic would be that dumb.

    Yeah, but there are frickin' demons! If you're ruling a kingdom, do you fight a territorial battle, or fight the huge anchor things trying to pull your world into another plane of existence (where you're probably not in the majority). 

     

    It's Elder Scrolls, so story trumps PvP, and IRL the most clear and present danger is the highest priority. So clear out all those anchors and then we can get back to beating up other alliances. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    Except that the subs actually rose initially after Trials Of Atlantis.  

  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by bcbully
    There's no such thing as PvP only mmorpg btw. They all involve pve, which is just fine.

    Camelot Unchained is supposedly going to try and be the first, we'll have to see how well that effort turns out.

    But I agree, PVE is the hallmark of MMORPG's, and in fact, patience, persistence, perseverance, and success in PVE activities has traditionally resulted in making a character stronger than others which IMO is working as intended, and a hallmark of the genre.

    Tell that to planetside 1 & 2. They may not be fantasy, but they are most definitely pvp-only. There's also games like Darkfall, but that's a little more debatable, depending on how much you wanna focus on semantics & technicallities.

    And that's exactly why PS2 doesn't feel much like an MMORPG. PS2 is an MMOFPS - nothing wrong with that, it's still a good game, but ESO is an MMORPG and that genre always includes PVE... I wish Mark Jacobs and CU well but it better have the best PVP ever or they will only get as few players as DF has.

    CU is being built from the ground up as a niche game. It doesn't need to have WoW numbers to be a success and to be fun. They aren't building it to suit the masses like almost every other MMORPG that's coming out these days.

  • ZadawnZadawn Member UncommonPosts: 670
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    This is hysterical and sad.

     

    DAoC was roaring along as the second most popular MMO on the market until Mythic did one thing. They launched Trials of Atlantis. This FORCED PvP players to grind and do PvE raiding in order to compete in RvR. It made EVERYONE quit.

     

    Now they've done it again with TESO. Wow. I never thought someone formerly at Mythic would be that dumb.

    Yeah, but there are frickin' demons! If you're ruling a kingdom, do you fight a territorial battle, or fight the huge anchor things trying to pull your world into another plane of existence (where you're probably not in the majority). 

     

    It's Elder Scrolls, so story trumps PvP, and IRL the most clear and present danger is the highest priority. So clear out all those anchors and then we can get back to beating up other alliances. 

    I get you man but todays' kids try to play everything as an arcade game. They forget this is actually an MMORPG, they especially forget about the last part, RPG.


  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,305


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Khalia there is a simple answer to this thread...   THERE ARE OVER 50 SKYSHARDS TO BE FOUND IN CYRRODIL
    thats 17 skillpointsd from over 300 in total..     Now do your math again..

     

    You will not have a good performing build withouth PvE, which for most players aint a problem...  because as Bully said, they will enjoy both PvE and PvP...

     

    But strictly PvP?  and thats wjhat this topic is about....    Dont see them stick around for to long.

     


    you are not wrong, if they refuse to do pve they will not stick around. in fact they were stupid to buy the game to begin with.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    This is hysterical and sad.

     

    DAoC was roaring along as the second most popular MMO on the market until Mythic did one thing. They launched Trials of Atlantis. This FORCED PvP players to grind and do PvE raiding in order to compete in RvR. It made EVERYONE quit.

     

    Now they've done it again with TESO. Wow. I never thought someone formerly at Mythic would be that dumb.

    Yeah, but there are frickin' demons! If you're ruling a kingdom, do you fight a territorial battle, or fight the huge anchor things trying to pull your world into another plane of existence (where you're probably not in the majority). 

     

    It's Elder Scrolls, so story trumps PvP, and IRL the most clear and present danger is the highest priority. So clear out all those anchors and then we can get back to beating up other alliances. 

    The difference in what they did is in both games is staggering if you actually put some brain power into it.  In DAoC, the ToA expansion was more akin to what I believe adventure zones will be in ESO.  The difference here, is that sky shards are available through your leveling process, out in the open world, and in dungeons.  However, what you people seem to forget, or are missing entirely, is that a huge amount of sky shards are found in Cyrodil.  Cyrodil is where you will be PvP'ing right?  I mean, am I wrong?  Or are you guys just allowing yourself to get riled up like a bunch of sheep?

     

    So if the majority of the rewards are found in PvP areas, then what are you people bitching about?  It's not like they are locking exclusive gear away in 'Trials of Atlantis' style content.  While some of them will be locked into dungeons, the vast majority of them will be available to whomever stumbles across their path.  Totally free for the taking, you just have to find them.  Not to mention, they only affect the flexibility of your character, not the power of your character.

     

    Think people.  It's not hard.

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    This is hysterical and sad.

     

    DAoC was roaring along as the second most popular MMO on the market until Mythic did one thing. They launched Trials of Atlantis. This FORCED PvP players to grind and do PvE raiding in order to compete in RvR. It made EVERYONE quit.

     

    Now they've done it again with TESO. Wow. I never thought someone formerly at Mythic would be that dumb.

    It's Elder Scrolls, so story trumps PvP

    I spit out my milk at this. The Elderscrolls stories have been laughably bad since Morrowind. During the "Oblivion Crisis" everyone was too busy doing nothing to actually solve it. Sorry, that excuse does NOT work. Story always takes the back seat in ES games.

     

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199
    Originally posted by DAS1337
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    Except that the subs actually rose initially after Trials Of Atlantis.  

    And then crashed to record lows once people had time to realize what it was.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,624
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by DAS1337
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    Except that the subs actually rose initially after Trials Of Atlantis.  

    And then crashed to record lows once people had time to realize what it was.

    But still it actually improved the boring pvE of DAoC, but at a time that all the PvE players left....those new items where aqwsome, loved the idea of leveling items from a pve point, tough it was a bit grindy doing it solo, but in 8 man groups it worked qute well...   The only thing disspapointing was the underwater combat...

     

    the thing that can be learned from that expansion is that huge big sudden changes to a game never work well...

     

    luckilly for TESO the PvE is here from the start, and PvP only players can decide for themselves if they like it enough to not make the PvE frustrating....  Anyway, in general people that dont like aspects of a game will decide to leave... And we will love with a group of players that loves Great PvP on top of the PvE game they love....and PvP players that love the PvP enough to make the PvE bearable..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by DAS1337
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Dax360

    It'll work to a certain extent, as in they will be able to gain levels and spend 1 SP per level. Though they will miss out on all the Sky Shards which means their flexibility will be severely less than any opponent that has done PvE as well. Plus they'll miss out on a whole wealth of different experiences out in the "big wide world" so to speak, things that in my opinion add a lot to the game play experience as a whole.

     

    But if that's the only aspect of the game they are interested in, they'll still be able to reach max level and have fifty-something SP's to spend. But personally I'd feel like I was missing out on far to much of the game I'd paid for to skip the PvE side of things.

    I only hope that these PvE rewards don't put players at a distinct advantage in PvP.  That didn't prove to be very successful when daoc tried it many moons ago.  In fact, those changes were to blame for the fall in subscriber numbers.  They really need to keep the two play styles apart.

    Except that the subs actually rose initially after Trials Of Atlantis.  

    And then crashed to record lows once people had time to realize what it was.

    But still it actually improved the boring pvE of DAoC, but at a time that all the PvE players left....those new items where aqwsome, loved the idea of leveling items from a pve point, tough it was a bit grindy doing it solo, but in 8 man groups it worked qute well...   The only thing disspapointing was the underwater combat...

     

    The zones themselves are some of the best PvE zones in the history of the MMO genre.

     

    The PROBLEM, is forcing PvP players to do it. DAoC always had a perfect balance. Want the best items? You can craft them and hop into PvP, or you can raid for them for funzies. ToA ruined that.

  • MikePaladinMikePaladin Member UncommonPosts: 592
    From what  I have  read keeps will reset after 3 months.  3 month is enough to Complete all quest all shards to see all game to get all skills and then to jump all ready! into Fraction  vs Fraction. 
Sign In or Register to comment.