Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is this a scam?

24

Comments

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 Member Posts: 2,735
    It doesn't matter because it's not getting funded.
  • ShojuShoju Member UncommonPosts: 776
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    It doesn't matter because it's not getting funded.

    But it sort of does matter because now they are directly taking people's money via the company website and they are essentially directing people to go for the private funding option now that is incredibly clear that the KS has, for all intents and purposes, failed.  The KS is still being used as a platform to dupe rubes out of their money, and the sad thing is there are far too many people wearing their private donations (and magic forum title) as a badge of honor.  

    There is no regulation of those 'donations' now.  Brad and his cronies could be kicking back scarfing pizza and smoking bowls while these poor scrubs are footing the bill, and as long as the VR team are throwing them a few crumbs they will keep giving them money.  And unless a game is released (and even if it magically was), some of these people will never see any sort of value for the amount of money they are dropping on the private site.

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,125
    Originally posted by Shoju
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    It doesn't matter because it's not getting funded.

    But it sort of does matter because now they are directly taking people's money via the company website and they are essentially directing people to go for the private funding option now that is incredibly clear that the KS has, for all intents and purposes, failed.  The KS is still being used as a platform to dupe rubes out of their money, and the sad thing is there are far too many people wearing their private donations (and magic forum title) as a badge of honor.  

    There is no regulation of those 'donations' now.  Brad and his cronies could be kicking back scarfing pizza and smoking bowls while these poor scrubs are footing the bill, and as long as the VR team are throwing them a few crumbs they will keep giving them money.  And unless a game is released (and even if it magically was), some of these people will never see any sort of value for the amount of money they are dropping on the private site.

    Who hurt you?

  • popsicledeathpopsicledeath Member Posts: 108
    Originally posted by Forgrimm
    Originally posted by popsicledeath

     Yet the KS mission statement says the project is for:

     "An epic planar high fantasy MMO from renowned EverQuest creator Brad McQuaid."

     If they stated they were needing funds to set up a studio, rent space, buy equipment, it would have probably been a blatant violation of KS policy that doesn't allow a person to set up a KS to start a business.

     If they had stated they were making a tech demo, then hey, that would have been a great idea.

     Instead, they talked about the game and said it was to fund a game and even their first, 800k milestone vaguely explains "We're one step closer to delivering the MMORPG experience our fans have been yearning for!"

     At best, vague.  At worst, misleading and duplicitous in the fact the next stretch goal is game related, and the project claims to be making a game, yet the reality in interviews is the 800k funding would be going toward setting up a studio and basically starting a business that wants to make a game.

     Scam?  Maybe not.  Misleading and shady.  Imo yes.

    They state right on their kickstarter page FAQ that the kickstarter is to set up the studio:

    Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?

    Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.

     

     

    Except a KS to set up a studio would probably be too close to a KS to set up a business, which is against KS policy.  So instead, the KS presents itself as a KS to fund a game, and in reality the VR team says, well, actually the 800k would only really get a studio set up, not fund a game.

     

    If it were to get a studio set up, and that was actually stated, the KS would have probably been rejected.

    According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  • saxifrsaxifr Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by popsicledeath
    Originally posted by Forgrimm
    Originally posted by popsicledeath

     Yet the KS mission statement says the project is for:

     "An epic planar high fantasy MMO from renowned EverQuest creator Brad McQuaid."

     If they stated they were needing funds to set up a studio, rent space, buy equipment, it would have probably been a blatant violation of KS policy that doesn't allow a person to set up a KS to start a business.

     If they had stated they were making a tech demo, then hey, that would have been a great idea.

     Instead, they talked about the game and said it was to fund a game and even their first, 800k milestone vaguely explains "We're one step closer to delivering the MMORPG experience our fans have been yearning for!"

     At best, vague.  At worst, misleading and duplicitous in the fact the next stretch goal is game related, and the project claims to be making a game, yet the reality in interviews is the 800k funding would be going toward setting up a studio and basically starting a business that wants to make a game.

     Scam?  Maybe not.  Misleading and shady.  Imo yes.

    They state right on their kickstarter page FAQ that the kickstarter is to set up the studio:

    Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?

    Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.

     

     

    Except a KS to set up a studio would probably be too close to a KS to set up a business, which is against KS policy.  So instead, the KS presents itself as a KS to fund a game, and in reality the VR team says, well, actually the 800k would only really get a studio set up, not fund a game.

     

    If it were to get a studio set up, and that was actually stated, the KS would have probably been rejected.

    That's my read. The whole thing stinks to high hell.

    RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  • FibenFiben Member Posts: 1

    Wait, Brad wants actual money again?? Run away.

    Brad makes a wonderful game and should be both employed and well paid for doing just that, BUT he should never be in charge of funds or organization of a major project.  He is just the kind of creative person that should always be working for an actual grown-up, and the restrictions he has previously railed against are what the rest of the  world refer to as reality.

     

    Some people just simply work better with supervision, and Brad is one of them.  I'm all for throwing all kinds of money at one of his projects, just please please have a grownup receive and disburse it.

  • SemibruceleeSemibrucelee Member Posts: 52
    I didn't exactly follow the evolution (or lack thereof), but it always appeared to me as a very small group trying to attract investors and whatnot.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,026

    My guess is that it's a fraud.

    In their Kickstarter campaign they are promising the game as one of their Kickstarter rewards, and Kickstarter's terms of use require them to either fulfill that promise to backers or refund the money. Yet, in the same Kickstarter project pages they admit themselves that they can't make the MMO with just 800 000$ even if the Kickstarter were successful.

    They only explain that they "will visit other funding opportunities"  if crowdfunding won't get them a lot more than 800 000$, without revealing any more detailed info about what other funding opportunities they have. One would think, that if they'd have other funding opportunities they'd advertise it a bit more so that backers would trust that the project gets finished. I think they don't really know how to get the rest of the funding if Kickstarter doesn't exceed its goal.

    If the Kickstarter were successful, and they'd start spending that 800 000$ after admitting themselves that they won't be able to finish the project and deliver the product with just that money, they'd get quickly into a situation where they can't either deliver the sold game nor refund the money as it's spent. That would be against the agreement, and when done knowing that the project has no realistic chance of being successful it would be a fraud.

     
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671
    Ain't getting funded. Shocker. ....

    Steam: Neph

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    This whole KS thing looks less about making a game, and more about paying for and putting together a studio.

    Plus, I believe they mentioned that some of the KS money would be going to pay back wages for work that had already been done. As a result, anyone unwise enough to donate to this thing, is not paying for future development of a game, at least partially, so much as for what little has already been done.

    This looks awfully shady at best, because under KS own terms, you can not use KS to start a business.

  • tman5tman5 Member Posts: 604
    Originally posted by Retired
    NO ONE GETS CHARGED IF THEY DONT REACH 800K. They won't reach 800k, I told people from the first day they would fail. Horrible stretch goals. Things like crafting and a bunch of classes are expected in mmos, shouldn't be stretch goals. Probably one of the worse Kickstarters I have ever seen. Definitely the worse from a big industry name. Crash and burn Brad, I knew you would fell, karma is a Bitch, you shouldn't have screwed over all the people that made you years ago.

    Completely off topic, but- Holy shit! "Genius?" I've never seen that title before.  You've got, what (1, 2 ,3 4, . . ) 12 and 1/4 stars?!

    How you do that?

     

  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009

    Clearly the KS is just trying to raise capital so he can open a studio -- the actual game has been the secondary objective since the start.

     

  • popsicledeathpopsicledeath Member Posts: 108
    Originally posted by Vrika

     

    I think they don't really know how to get the rest of the funding if Kickstarter doesn't exceed its goal.

     

     

    After Brad being virtually absent for a week of the KS to vague reasons that he was dealing with personal things and looking into other funding options, he came back posting a lot about other funding and private funding on their site and how they're actively looking and feel confident they'll find private investors.

     

    And then he tweeted:

    If anyone knows an angel investor or other type of investor who might be interested in investing in VR, please let me know.

     

    There has been talk they actually found several angel investors, in part due to his tweet, but they haven't been announced or anything.   I'm not convinced they won't show up in the last hour, push the KS over the goal, because the team still seems pretty confident it will fund when even many of their biggest supporters have all but given up on the KS funding.

     

    Another odd thing, after all the talk of wanting early backers to be rewarded for getting in on cheaper tiers for the same stuff as later where the tiers will be higher priced, they announced no more caps on tiers.  Meaning the people in at 425 for the exact rewards as 375 should hope they read the latest email, lol.

     

    It also frees up more 10k tiers, making it more plausible if a bunch of last minute funding shows up and starts buying those tiers... and how many of them are on the team?

    According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  • popsicledeathpopsicledeath Member Posts: 108
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    This whole KS thing looks less about making a game, and more about paying for and putting together a studio.

    Plus, I believe they mentioned that some of the KS money would be going to pay back wages for work that had already been done. As a result, anyone unwise enough to donate to this thing, is not paying for future development of a game, at least partially, so much as for what little has already been done.

    This looks awfully shady at best, because under KS own terms, you can not use KS to start a business.

     

    Exactly.  Based on their own statements, the initial KS funding would be going to set up a business/studio and back-paying people for the work they didn't seem to start until they actually launched the KS.  They're basically asking us to pay for them to run a KS campaign that will pay for them to start a studio they can then start trying to really make and market a game with.

     

    As well, part of the work they've done during this KS that they're going to back-pay people for is setting up a website.  KS prohibits social media websites.  BradCo themselves describe their website as:

    "The new site puts a great emphasis on community and social interaction, much like Pantheon. You'll be able to connect with friends, see their status feeds, create guilds and groups, share images and videos, browse and participate in the wiki, toss around game ideas in the Think Tank,chat with friends in the IRC, post blogs, create events, participate in polls and surveys, and discuss topics on the forums. We feel this kind of community building is important prior to launching a community-centric game, so we wanted to give you the tools to do just that."

     

    Which isn't enough to report them, perhaps, but certainly sounds like they're flirting with something KS doesn't allow, because that just looks like the description of a social media site for gamers and Pantheon fans to me.

     

    If it's not a scam or fraud, it's incompetence.  Either way, I pulled my pledge just in case something shady goes down at the last minute.

     

    According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  • blutigfaustblutigfaust Member UncommonPosts: 129
    Originally posted by handlewithcare

    I bought shroud of the avatar and its already in testing.

    pantheon is connected to shroud if people want to fund it and get rewards so I don't think the portelarium team will screw their own crowd funders.

    You don't know the power of Greed then.

    Current games playing: MechWarrior Online
    Games being watched:  Project Genom
    Favorite played games: SWG, RomaVictor, and Xsyon

  • NirrtixNirrtix Member Posts: 173
    I think it is amazing people think this is a scam... do you guys know who Brad McQuaid is? HE made Everquest, which is one of the main games KiddieCraft is based off of. Everquest was the King of MMO's until WoW came out. The only reason WoW became king was EQ was getting old and SoE changed the games in ways that players did not like, so they tried something new and abandoned it.

    Nirrtix
    ALPHAs:
    -Pantheon
    -Shroud of the Avatar
    -Camelot Unchained
    BETAs:
    -World of Warcraft
    -City of Heroes
    -Star Wars Galaxies
    -Saga of Ryzom
    -Homeworld
    -Starcraft II
    -Warcraft III
    -Hearthstone
    -Star Wars The Old Republic
    -Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  • NirrtixNirrtix Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by Fiben

    Wait, Brad wants actual money again?? Run away.

    Brad makes a wonderful game and should be both employed and well paid for doing just that, BUT he should never be in charge of funds or organization of a major project.  He is just the kind of creative person that should always be working for an actual grown-up, and the restrictions he has previously railed against are what the rest of the  world refer to as reality.

     

    Some people just simply work better with supervision, and Brad is one of them.  I'm all for throwing all kinds of money at one of his projects, just please please have a grownup receive and disburse it.

    MAybe you should blame the publishers who gave him the money. HE made the game he got over ambitions. Microsoft canned Vanguard and SoE released it basically on life support, when WoW's expansion came out. SoE doomed Vanguard the day they released it on life support. To blame that all on Brad is totally unfair.

    Brad made Everquest and it was a financial success... so based on one incident you condemn him?

    Nirrtix
    ALPHAs:
    -Pantheon
    -Shroud of the Avatar
    -Camelot Unchained
    BETAs:
    -World of Warcraft
    -City of Heroes
    -Star Wars Galaxies
    -Saga of Ryzom
    -Homeworld
    -Starcraft II
    -Warcraft III
    -Hearthstone
    -Star Wars The Old Republic
    -Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Nirrtix
    I think it is amazing people think this is a scam... do you guys know who Brad McQuaid is? HE made Everquest, which is one of the main games KiddieCraft is based off of. Everquest was the King of MMO's until WoW came out. The only reason WoW became king was EQ was getting old and SoE changed the games in ways that players did not like, so they tried something new and abandoned it.

    Yes..that's the only reason wow became king. The 450k people playing EQ left...had hundreds of babies each and they all played wow.

    btw, I think there's some space at the top of your post you could jam another kickstarter link in.

  • NirrtixNirrtix Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by Vrika

    My guess is that it's a fraud.

    In their Kickstarter campaign they are promising the game as one of their Kickstarter rewards, and Kickstarter's terms of use require them to either fulfill that promise to backers or refund the money. Yet, in the same Kickstarter project pages they admit themselves that they can't make the MMO with just 800 000$ even if the Kickstarter were successful.

    They only explain that they "will visit other funding opportunities"  if crowdfunding won't get them a lot more than 800 000$, without revealing any more detailed info about what other funding opportunities they have. One would think, that if they'd have other funding opportunities they'd advertise it a bit more so that backers would trust that the project gets finished. I think they don't really know how to get the rest of the funding if Kickstarter doesn't exceed its goal.

    If the Kickstarter were successful, and they'd start spending that 800 000$ after admitting themselves that they won't be able to finish the project and deliver the product with just that money, they'd get quickly into a situation where they can't either deliver the sold game nor refund the money as it's spent. That would be against the agreement, and when done knowing that the project has no realistic chance of being successful it would be a fraud.

    Hon the kickstarter was never intended to be their only funding... Camelot Unchained did the same thing. Both intend to either get a publisher if they have to or do on-site donations.

    I think it is amazing how so many here make assumptions that make no sense.  Of course you cannot make an MMO with $800k they say in the FAQ on the kickstarter they will reach out for alternative funding including on-site funding.

    Nirrtix
    ALPHAs:
    -Pantheon
    -Shroud of the Avatar
    -Camelot Unchained
    BETAs:
    -World of Warcraft
    -City of Heroes
    -Star Wars Galaxies
    -Saga of Ryzom
    -Homeworld
    -Starcraft II
    -Warcraft III
    -Hearthstone
    -Star Wars The Old Republic
    -Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  • NirrtixNirrtix Member Posts: 173

    That is my signature... do not blame me for having faith in the project.... you are right about WoW and EQ. SoE released changes to the game and people left. Also 1 month prior EQ2 came out and that divided the community some too.

    What boggles my mind is that people still play WoW...

    Nirrtix
    ALPHAs:
    -Pantheon
    -Shroud of the Avatar
    -Camelot Unchained
    BETAs:
    -World of Warcraft
    -City of Heroes
    -Star Wars Galaxies
    -Saga of Ryzom
    -Homeworld
    -Starcraft II
    -Warcraft III
    -Hearthstone
    -Star Wars The Old Republic
    -Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Member UncommonPosts: 654
    Originally posted by Nirrtix
    I think it is amazing people think this is a scam... do you guys know who Brad McQuaid is? HE made Everquest, which is one of the main games KiddieCraft is based off of. Everquest was the King of MMO's until WoW came out. The only reason WoW became king was EQ was getting old and SoE changed the games in ways that players did not like, so they tried something new and abandoned it.

    Dayna you also have to remember he was responsible for VG and the launch of VG has left a bitter taste in lots of people's mouth's.

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,026
    Originally posted by Nirrtix

    Hon the kickstarter was never intended to be their only funding... Camelot Unchained did the same thing. Both intend to either get a publisher if they have to or do on-site donations.

    I think it is amazing how so many here make assumptions that make no sense.  Of course you cannot make an MMO with $800k they say in the FAQ on the kickstarter they will reach out for alternative funding including on-site funding.

    Camelot Unchained devs were able to promise that they'd have 5 million dollars for the game development if the Kickstarter was funded.

    Pantheon devs admit that they need other sources of income, but are unable or unwilling to tell how they are going to get them.

    That's why I think Camelot Unchained devs are honestly trying to develop a game, whereas Pantheon devs are trying to commit a fraud without realistic chance of delivering their promises.

     
  • emotaemota Member UncommonPosts: 413
    Originally posted by saxifr

    It sounds like they have no product, they put a kickstarter up to get paid 800k for some concept art and whatever work they have already done.

     

    There is no game or product or anything that results from this kickstarter. People keep talking about "this game" - what game? there isn't any game. 

    There is no product or game period.

     

    The product they are currently selling since the Kickstarter appears to be kaput is a subscription to a forum to talk about the game they are allegedly making..fair enough.

    But even that also seems like a rip-off of how SOE has been marketing landmark and EQN.

     

    It's kind of sad at best, and I honestly wonder if it is not an outright attempt to rip people off.

    Seriously? 

  • shmashedshmashed Member UncommonPosts: 18

    Someone earlier in this post said he looks exhausted in the videos so he must be working hard.  Not to troll, but all I could think of is, I wonder if its the drugs he was rumored to be on back in 2006?  I don't know what to believe about this guy anymore.  He reminds me of this genius uncle of mine who is a medical doctor but also happens to be a major addict of just about every substance possible.  When he isn't suspended or high, hes apparently an extremely gifted doctor.  And when hes on his game he can decieve anyone.   But when he isn't, his deception is just as pathetic as this kickstarter.  The whole thing is just one long series of trigger words aimed to pull at the heartstrings of a classic era EQ player:  Group focused, exploration, teamwork, friends, open world, team, grouping, strategy, groups, risk vs reward, groups, group oriented, challenging...did I mention grouping?   Then more talk of fine steel weapons, WTB SoW,  no ! over quest givers, other popular bits of eq culture and common complaints of the mmorpg genre for the last 10 years. It sounds really great.  But then I saw the  3.5 million dollar stretch goal for crafting and all of a sudden I start to worry.  How can *crafting* be a stretch goal 4.5 times as large as the original goal?  Did anyone put more than 30 minutes thought into this Kickstarter?

     

    Lets all admit it that either fairly or not, this guy is in the penalty box and subject to stricter rules until we can trust him again.  Hearing he was hired back at SOE in 2012 and working on Vanguard was the first positive thing I had heard about the man since the Vanguard fiasco.  He had a lot of penance to do and I kind of thought this might go towards that.  Instead, he bounces to EQ team and then out after just a year.  I didn't play either game during that time period so I don't know if he accomplished much or not, but it looks as if it were just a simple short term scouting trip.  Then he makes this kickstarter with no actual product to speak of, and has the balls to state the project "has been funded solely from our own pockets."  Project? Or scheme?  The guys who work on the "project" then talk about it for the video....  Except they look like they are reading from a cue card.  They clearly aren't speaking from the heart about this project because there is no project about which to speak.  I've seen better acting on informercials.  Some people in the video are even speaking in past tense as if something has already been created when clearly it has not.  Only one or maybe two guys were even slightly believable.

     

    I dearly want to trust every word he is saying.  If I did, I would make a large donation.  But I get the feeling he has reached out to investors and been told hes too big of a risk.  I think he would have been better served by staying with SOE until EQ Next launches.  If EQN launch is deemed a failure (and most mmo are), then EQ fans will capitulate and would gleefully throw money at McQuaid to keep the dream alive.  With that funding he could secure investors.  Since rejoining SOE is likely not in the cards as a possibility, he could maybe stay relevant in the mmorpg scene in some other way.  He is one of the biggest names in the business.  He should have options for employment that would provide him a platform with which he can express his opinions and win people back over.  Because for most mmo fans who don't read the news, the last thing we heard of McQuaid is him disappearing after the horrid Vanguard launch and all the rumors that followed.  Now he shows back up with a few sketches, asking for 800,000 dollars.  Its kind of sad.  He is stuck in a paradox where not many people are willing to invest with him until he actually has a product to show us.  Yet, he doesn't have the money to make that basic product.  This is poor planning.

  • Castekin1000Castekin1000 Member Posts: 36
    Originally posted by shmashed

     I think he would have been better served by staying with SOE until EQ Next launches. 

     

     

    He could not stay with SOE until eq next launches because he got made redundant.  Always be aware no company ever gets rid of their best employees they get rid of their deadwood.

     

Sign In or Register to comment.