This isn't really a 'hotbar' kind of game. Add more hotbars, people WILL struggle with combat more....you all blame it on consoles, but in truth it's the CLICKERS (people who use mouse to click abilities instead of hotkeys) that I think this system was designed around. The way camera movement and combat works makes it nigh impossible for clickers. Adding more 'buttons' that are usable will make the game less accessible to them.
Just my own personal opinion. I'm sure someone will have an aneurism and freak out because it differs from their opinion or isn't badmouthing/loving the game 100%. meh.
Originally posted by Jyiiga Ultimately changes like this would affect game balance drastically... If you added another bar you might have to go back and adjust every single skill in the game to compensate. Probably a bit late for it.
I have to agree with this.
The entire game would probably have to be rebalanced. Not going to happen before launch.
Personally, after creating my thread (and poll) on this similar topic and reading all of the responses and rationale provided, I've come to 2 conclusions that I feel would work extremely well:
1) Add just one more slot per weapon, making 6 per bar plus 1 for the Ultimate.
2) Allow slotted passives, toggles, summons, etc. to continue to work or stay activated even if that bar is not the one currently being used.
I like option two better, because a lot of these said types of abilities go to waste unless they are slotted on both bars to receive full benefit from them. It not only stays true to the 5 + 1 slots which is the original game plan, but also opens up more options for those who would, at the moment, feel tied down or torn because of the need to use two slots for one ability in order to experience its full effect.
So technically it's a win-win situation. Same number of slots to play with (nothing changes there), but more freedom since no one ability would tie down more than one slot. That gives that one or two extra slots to play with for the MANY who are going to have a slotted passive, toggle, summon, etc.
My (somewhat utopian) solution:
Have two setting options: "Welcome to the game, do you want 1 - PC format or 2 - Console format"?
If console players cry out that it would give pc users too much of an advantage then that only proves the point that their mechanics are constrained to suit their limited button pushing.
If this gear switching option is so easy as you say in the defense of console play, then for pc users at least allow the option of having both sets of skill options to be on screen simultaneously. Console players can happily continue with their gear switching -this won't affect you, it would be an option for pc users.
Give the option of converting the quickslots into a separate bar. If people are happy with the current method then they use the current format. Let other players choose to have this as a on-screen bar. After all - why should it bother you what someone else has on their screen during game play?
At present pc players are forced to try and produce console like game controls onto a mouse and keyboard. Something which whilst workable, reduces significantly the optimum playing experience for them.
They can`t do this... how would you explain to Console users that they have 6 skills while PC players have 30?(like in other MMO`s)
It might end up being balanced as you have finite resources - mana and stamina - and time so you can`t actually use all of the abilities but it would be hard to explain to to the Console Users.
So yes PC users get the stick because Skyrim sold more Console copies.... and they want the money Console players have.
6 skills for console players v 30 for pc players - sounds legit, I'll go for that :-)
They could at least give us the option of having the quickslot passives as a bar on screen, and instead of the console driven 2 x 5(+1) give us 2 x 10 (+2) on screen.
Look the pc controls have been diluted, and in some cases completely removed, to accommodate consoles. There is no direct equivalent with the standard pc mouse and keyboard to a two handed console controller, so we are left with having to accommodate bar swapping, quickslots wheel - which simply wouldn't be there with some game customization for pc users.
And again for those who say this mechanism makes you choose what skills to use - We did before, we still do in many of the mmo games being played. In fact the more options you had, the more chance of getting it wrong when facing quality opponents in the likes of Aion, Rift, Tera.
Having a limited hotbar doesn't somehow make you work harder in a game. Having more skills available and deciding which is the one right one to attack with, or defend, heal, or help your allies out with at any given moment in the heat of a pvp battle - that requires significantly more thought.
The enforced limited hotbar limits choices, and gameplay mechanisms are reduced to accommodate this limitation. There should be some acknowledgement of pc users, with the option to customize the interface for non-thumbwarriors.
This isn't really a 'hotbar' kind of game. Add more hotbars, people WILL struggle with combat more....you all blame it on consoles, but in truth it's the CLICKERS (people who use mouse to click abilities instead of hotkeys) that I think this system was designed around. The way camera movement and combat works makes it nigh impossible for clickers. Adding more 'buttons' that are usable will make the game less accessible to them.
Just my own personal opinion. I'm sure someone will have an aneurism and freak out because it differs from their opinion or isn't badmouthing/loving the game 100%. meh.
Actually you are correct, the mouse is the equivalent of 5 actions itself. Attack, Power Attack, Block, "Shield" bash, CC break... so... there is the 3rd bar of 5 skills everyone who hasn't played wants.
Personally, after creating my thread (and poll) on this similar topic and reading all of the responses and rationale provided, I've come to 2 conclusions that I feel would work extremely well:
1) Add just one more slot per weapon, making 6 per bar plus 1 for the Ultimate.
2) Allow slotted passives, toggles, summons, etc. to continue to work or stay activated even if that bar is not the one currently being used.
I like option two better, because a lot of these said types of abilities go to waste unless they are slotted on both bars to receive full benefit from them. It not only stays true to the 5 + 1 slots which is the original game plan, but also opens up more options for those who would, at the moment, feel tied down or torn because of the need to use two slots for one ability in order to experience its full effect.
So technically it's a win-win situation. Same number of slots to play with (nothing changes there), but more freedom since no one ability would tie down more than one slot. That gives that one or two extra slots to play with for the MANY who are going to have a slotted passive, toggle, summon, etc.
My (somewhat utopian) solution:
Have two setting options: "Welcome to the game, do you want 1 - PC format or 2 - Console format"?
If console players cry out that it would give pc users too much of an advantage then that only proves the point that their mechanics are constrained to suit their limited button pushing.
If this gear switching option is so easy as you say in the defense of console play, then for pc users at least allow the option of having both sets of skill options to be on screen simultaneously. Console players can happily continue with their gear switching -this won't affect you, it would be an option for pc users.
Give the option of converting the quickslots into a separate bar. If people are happy with the current method then they use the current format. Let other players choose to have this as a on-screen bar. After all - why should it bother you what someone else has on their screen during game play?
At present pc players are forced to try and produce console like game controls onto a mouse and keyboard. Something which whilst workable, reduces significantly the optimum playing experience for them.
They can`t do this... how would you explain to Console users that they have 6 skills while PC players have 30?(like in other MMO`s)
It might end up being balanced as you have finite resources - mana and stamina - and time so you can`t actually use all of the abilities but it would be hard to explain to to the Console Users.
So yes PC users get the stick because Skyrim sold more Console copies.... and they want the money Console players have.
6 skills for console players v 30 for pc players - sounds legit, I'll go for that :-)
They could at least give us the option of having the quickslot passives as a bar on screen, and instead of the console driven 2 x 5(+1) give us 2 x 10 (+2) on screen.
Look the pc controls have been diluted, and in some cases completely removed, to accommodate consoles. There is no direct equivalent with the standard pc mouse and keyboard to a two handed console controller, so we are left with having to accommodate bar swapping, quickslots wheel - which simply wouldn't be there with some game customization for pc users.
And again for those who say this mechanism makes you choose what skills to use - We did before, we still do in many of the mmo games being played. In fact the more options you had, the more chance of getting it wrong when facing quality opponents in the likes of Aion, Rift, Tera.
Having a limited hotbar doesn't somehow make you work harder in a game. Having more skills available and deciding which is the one right one to attack with, or defend, heal, or help your allies out with at any given moment in the heat of a pvp battle - that requires significantly more thought.
The enforced limited hotbar limits choices, and gameplay mechanisms are reduced to accommodate this limitation. There should be some acknowledgement of pc users, with the option to customize the interface for non-thumbwarriors.
So.... you have 3 bars, 8 buttons each..... limited resources.... so you throw out your first 3-4 skills..... what now? What do you assume happens in game after you spam 4 skills (can be the same one or not)? I want you to answer because I think you have no clue how this game actually works.
Personally, after creating my thread (and poll) on this similar topic and reading all of the responses and rationale provided, I've come to 2 conclusions that I feel would work extremely well:
1) Add just one more slot per weapon, making 6 per bar plus 1 for the Ultimate.
2) Allow slotted passives, toggles, summons, etc. to continue to work or stay activated even if that bar is not the one currently being used.
I like option two better, because a lot of these said types of abilities go to waste unless they are slotted on both bars to receive full benefit from them. It not only stays true to the 5 + 1 slots which is the original game plan, but also opens up more options for those who would, at the moment, feel tied down or torn because of the need to use two slots for one ability in order to experience its full effect.
So technically it's a win-win situation. Same number of slots to play with (nothing changes there), but more freedom since no one ability would tie down more than one slot. That gives that one or two extra slots to play with for the MANY who are going to have a slotted passive, toggle, summon, etc.
My (somewhat utopian) solution:
Have two setting options: "Welcome to the game, do you want 1 - PC format or 2 - Console format"?
If console players cry out that it would give pc users too much of an advantage then that only proves the point that their mechanics are constrained to suit their limited button pushing.
If this gear switching option is so easy as you say in the defense of console play, then for pc users at least allow the option of having both sets of skill options to be on screen simultaneously. Console players can happily continue with their gear switching -this won't affect you, it would be an option for pc users.
Give the option of converting the quickslots into a separate bar. If people are happy with the current method then they use the current format. Let other players choose to have this as a on-screen bar. After all - why should it bother you what someone else has on their screen during game play?
At present pc players are forced to try and produce console like game controls onto a mouse and keyboard. Something which whilst workable, reduces significantly the optimum playing experience for them.
They can`t do this... how would you explain to Console users that they have 6 skills while PC players have 30?(like in other MMO`s)
It might end up being balanced as you have finite resources - mana and stamina - and time so you can`t actually use all of the abilities but it would be hard to explain to to the Console Users.
So yes PC users get the stick because Skyrim sold more Console copies.... and they want the money Console players have.
6 skills for console players v 30 for pc players - sounds legit, I'll go for that :-)
They could at least give us the option of having the quickslot passives as a bar on screen, and instead of the console driven 2 x 5(+1) give us 2 x 10 (+2) on screen.
Look the pc controls have been diluted, and in some cases completely removed, to accommodate consoles. There is no direct equivalent with the standard pc mouse and keyboard to a two handed console controller, so we are left with having to accommodate bar swapping, quickslots wheel - which simply wouldn't be there with some game customization for pc users.
And again for those who say this mechanism makes you choose what skills to use - We did before, we still do in many of the mmo games being played. In fact the more options you had, the more chance of getting it wrong when facing quality opponents in the likes of Aion, Rift, Tera.
Having a limited hotbar doesn't somehow make you work harder in a game. Having more skills available and deciding which is the one right one to attack with, or defend, heal, or help your allies out with at any given moment in the heat of a pvp battle - that requires significantly more thought.
The enforced limited hotbar limits choices, and gameplay mechanisms are reduced to accommodate this limitation. There should be some acknowledgement of pc users, with the option to customize the interface for non-thumbwarriors.
So.... you have 3 bars, 8 buttons each..... limited resources.... so you throw out your first 3-4 skills..... what now? What do you assume happens in game after you spam 4 skills (can be the same one or not)? I want you to answer because I think you have no clue how this game actually works.
Take a chill Mr I want you to answer, and as for the no clue bit.,, try to keep the conversation on topic with game mechanisms rather than personal insults. Those are generally a sign of a weak position.
The OP, which I generally but not completely agree with, has asked for more bars. The pc set up can handle more bars. So, as I said in my previous post, make an option to have the quickslots as a bar for pc users - this allows single click selection of any of the items in it. Not game breaking, just a small change as an option for a the pc.
Skills - I didn't say 3 x 8. What I did say was - oh just read it again, it's in black and white further up this post.
PC users can accommodate having a greater number of skills on the screen. It doesn't mean we click everyone of them all the time, or use them all evenly in some got-to-press-all-rotation. For pc users there is no need to limit the screen to one single row of 5(+1) and then have to carry out a switch command to bring up a separate set. This mechanism is there purely for the limited command options of a controller.
So expand the skill bar to accommodate 10(+2) as an option for the pc. It will still be down to player skill as to whether or not they use the right skill at any one time in the heat of battle. Again it's a simple UI change for the pc.
I have stated my point, it won't change. I acknowledge the other people will have a different view, which will be unchangeable - that is life. I won't insult them, I won't question there game knowledge.
But I will keep playing my Templar in these betas and in the full game as I love the class. And if an add-on(s) appears out of the many that are sure to arise, that answers my request - it or they will immediately get installed.
hiding behind the excuse of "it forces you to make tough choices" does not mask the feeling of "its done so that its playable on consoles".
if it was 8 skills and 2 bars, i d be ok, but just knowing that the whole design is based so that its playable on a console, is an insult to me.
So if you bothered to even research this, they weren't going to originally release on console until Sony went out of their way to specifically ask them to... and the UI was already implemented in its rough form.... sooooooo. Instead of being insulted, I would prefer you were informed.
Comments
This isn't really a 'hotbar' kind of game. Add more hotbars, people WILL struggle with combat more....you all blame it on consoles, but in truth it's the CLICKERS (people who use mouse to click abilities instead of hotkeys) that I think this system was designed around. The way camera movement and combat works makes it nigh impossible for clickers. Adding more 'buttons' that are usable will make the game less accessible to them.
Just my own personal opinion. I'm sure someone will have an aneurism and freak out because it differs from their opinion or isn't badmouthing/loving the game 100%. meh.
I'd be up for that all at once. The Quick-Slot-Wheel is baaad.
I have to agree with this.
The entire game would probably have to be rebalanced. Not going to happen before launch.
Or at any other time, most likely...
6 skills for console players v 30 for pc players - sounds legit, I'll go for that :-)
They could at least give us the option of having the quickslot passives as a bar on screen, and instead of the console driven 2 x 5(+1) give us 2 x 10 (+2) on screen.
Look the pc controls have been diluted, and in some cases completely removed, to accommodate consoles. There is no direct equivalent with the standard pc mouse and keyboard to a two handed console controller, so we are left with having to accommodate bar swapping, quickslots wheel - which simply wouldn't be there with some game customization for pc users.
And again for those who say this mechanism makes you choose what skills to use - We did before, we still do in many of the mmo games being played. In fact the more options you had, the more chance of getting it wrong when facing quality opponents in the likes of Aion, Rift, Tera.
Having a limited hotbar doesn't somehow make you work harder in a game. Having more skills available and deciding which is the one right one to attack with, or defend, heal, or help your allies out with at any given moment in the heat of a pvp battle - that requires significantly more thought.
The enforced limited hotbar limits choices, and gameplay mechanisms are reduced to accommodate this limitation. There should be some acknowledgement of pc users, with the option to customize the interface for non-thumbwarriors.
Actually you are correct, the mouse is the equivalent of 5 actions itself. Attack, Power Attack, Block, "Shield" bash, CC break... so... there is the 3rd bar of 5 skills everyone who hasn't played wants.
So.... you have 3 bars, 8 buttons each..... limited resources.... so you throw out your first 3-4 skills..... what now? What do you assume happens in game after you spam 4 skills (can be the same one or not)? I want you to answer because I think you have no clue how this game actually works.
I can just imagine the official forums after launch...
"I use TWO abilities and I'm out of mana !! WTF ZOS, you want me to use AUTO-ATTACK ?!!!!!11!1!11"
"It's 2014, not 2004, why only FIVE SKILLS on the hotbar ?"
"How am I supposed to do an efficient rotation if I'm out of stamina after using 2 skills ?"
It's going to be brutal.
hiding behind the excuse of "it forces you to make tough choices" does not mask the feeling of "its done so that its playable on consoles".
if it was 8 skills and 2 bars, i d be ok, but just knowing that the whole design is based so that its playable on a console, is an insult to me.
Take a chill Mr I want you to answer, and as for the no clue bit.,, try to keep the conversation on topic with game mechanisms rather than personal insults. Those are generally a sign of a weak position.
The OP, which I generally but not completely agree with, has asked for more bars. The pc set up can handle more bars. So, as I said in my previous post, make an option to have the quickslots as a bar for pc users - this allows single click selection of any of the items in it. Not game breaking, just a small change as an option for a the pc.
Skills - I didn't say 3 x 8. What I did say was - oh just read it again, it's in black and white further up this post.
PC users can accommodate having a greater number of skills on the screen. It doesn't mean we click everyone of them all the time, or use them all evenly in some got-to-press-all-rotation. For pc users there is no need to limit the screen to one single row of 5(+1) and then have to carry out a switch command to bring up a separate set. This mechanism is there purely for the limited command options of a controller.
So expand the skill bar to accommodate 10(+2) as an option for the pc. It will still be down to player skill as to whether or not they use the right skill at any one time in the heat of battle. Again it's a simple UI change for the pc.
I have stated my point, it won't change. I acknowledge the other people will have a different view, which will be unchangeable - that is life. I won't insult them, I won't question there game knowledge.
But I will keep playing my Templar in these betas and in the full game as I love the class. And if an add-on(s) appears out of the many that are sure to arise, that answers my request - it or they will immediately get installed.
So if you bothered to even research this, they weren't going to originally release on console until Sony went out of their way to specifically ask them to... and the UI was already implemented in its rough form.... sooooooo. Instead of being insulted, I would prefer you were informed.
BTW, Linked source.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/07/sony-pushed-for-the-elder-scrolls-online-to-come-to-consoles